MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Vish8895 on July 21, 2016, 06:53:13 pm
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Hi all,
Very happy to say that I have finally bought a MK5 GTI! After so many years of wanting one it is now a reality :jumping: :jumping:
Just wondered if anyone recognised the car? Seems to have been owned by an enthusiast so wondered if anyone on here recognises her?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FVish8895%2FMy_GTI%2F20160721_161153_zpshdoatiaa.jpg&hash=d31c69d1f44205eb05a48d8ca431b0737fdd084a)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FVish8895%2FMy_GTI%2F20160721_155508_zpst1fodtxw.jpg&hash=291f0890fbdbece2cfa3df82ad7720fd40f09e31)
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Looks like a clean example. What's the full spec?
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Looks like a clean example. What's the full spec?
Thanks, seems well kept overall, time will tell!
Off the top of my head the spec is as follows:
Cloth Seats
Xenon Headlights
Cruise Control
Not sure what else, picking her up tomorrow so will find out more after getting familiar with it :)
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Looks lovely - Right colour too! :happy2:
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Can't help you identify it, but good choice - looks REALLY clean!
Enjoy the most versatile 4 wheels you'll ever own
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Certainly looks like it's been well cared for, well done! :happy2:
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Thanks for the comments chaps, I am very happy with the purchase. She drives well and handles great! Condition is overall very good, she is in dire need of a clay and polish session but thankfully the paint itself is in very good nic, hence the gleam in the pics!
The car feels like a rocket, she pulls so hard and spins the wheels in 2nd on dry hot roads!
The bad news... I took her for a dyno run to see how she is performing. She made 155bhp and 200ft-lb. Very concerning... They suspected it was a boost leak so I have contacted the dealer and without any fuss he asked me to bring her in for their garage to diagnose. Strange though how its making stock torque but not stock bhp...?
I went to check the DV as I know these are common but I couldn't find it. It seems to have some sort of billet metal contraption installed where the DV should be? With hoses coming off it?
I think it's this because it looks almost identical, it even has the little mount for the solenoid as seen in the install guide on the following page:
http://www.modbargains.com/forge-motorsport-diverter-valve-mk5-mk6-gti-gli.htm
Anyone know what the heck this is, take a look:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FVish8895%2FMy_GTI%2F20160724_160057_zpslpd7ruqf.jpg&hash=3e3eabd5804a6c4bba10599d44373fa36ec96526)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FVish8895%2FMy_GTI%2FCapture_zpsgqt9mjgm.png&hash=510bdf638cf24b1970a2511c56c36e81bcb290d9)
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You'll see from many posts on here the Diverter Valve (commonly referred to as the DV here) is a weak point on these, so many people replace them as routine maintenance with an updated version. I expect the previous owner went for an uprated one, but that looks like it's covered in oil, so might be a point of weakness.
Car looks awesome by the way :)
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Didn't Rich confirm it's a forge on another thread?
@r5gtt (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11199) recently mentioned the forge leaks boost too so that could be the case.
Be interested to see if a new DV (opt for a GFB DV+) will cure the problem.
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Didn't Rich confirm it's a forge on another thread?
@r5gtt (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11199) recently mentioned the forge leaks boost too so that could be the case.
Be interested to see if a new DV (opt for a GFB DV+) will cure the problem.
Yeah he did but I posted this before I created that thread :).
I will let the dealer attempt to find the boost leak and advise how they plan to rectify the issue :).
I'll search now for boost leaks from the Forge DV though, that's worrying.
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Yes @lukemk5gti (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10176) I did and I don't trust the forge or any forge or that matter as they are prone to leak and have serviceable parts where as the GFB DV + does not. Hope that helps. :smiley:
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To answer your question why it's making stock torque but not power, peak torque (on a standard k03 car) is at around 2000-2500rpm. However, peak power is around 5500-6000rpm. If it's not making enough torque at 5500-6000rpm, it won't make enough peak power.
So in basic terms, it's coming on boost ok, but then losing boost quickly (this is your boost leak) rather than holding it, as much as a little k03 can, higher up the revs.
This is why peak figures are often misleading, and torque/power graphs tell us the information we really need.
My k03 GTI makes 345lb/ft peak torque at Stage 2. A typical k04 car at Stage 2 makes a similar peak torque figure. But... the k04 car makes about 80bhp more peak power. For the exact reason explained above - it's how long a car can maintain torque as the revs increase that dictates peak power.
A bit like diesels that make 350lb/ft but only 200bhp. The boost is here and gone in a split second, and diesels can't rev high enough to turn big torque into big power.
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If I was you I would get rid of the Forge diverter valve and put in a stock item for now to get the boost leak sorted. I went with the Stock DV, and then upgrade the internal parts with GFB DV+ which is a great peace of kit, very well made, it's been installed on my car for 3 years now without a problem. Also look at the PCV valve which is a weak point.
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@AJP (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11926) can you elaborate on this?
Are you saying that his log of 150bhp was a snapshot when torque was highest? Could his bhp have been higher at some other point on the dyno?
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Thanks for all the great feedback gents.
I would like to remove the Forge DV in place for the Rev G DV but will need to spend some time reading the install instructions for the Forge one as it appears to be more complicated than just a plug and play DV. I.e. removal will be more complicated.
This was my dynograph for those interested, colours are a bit hard to differentiate but the curve starting at 34 is power and the other therefor is torque:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FVish8895%2FMy_GTI%2F20160724_215329_zpskq8oqwhr.jpg&hash=444f7e2cbbd00a134e6c9dd14676f62bad02c9ba)
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@AJP (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11926) can you elaborate on this?
Are you saying that his log of 150bhp was a snapshot when torque was highest? Could his bhp have been higher at some other point on the dyno?
One of my old graphs. Ignore the Stage 1 curves.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160725%2F9dff8f9464611a41c9408e74686bbd4d.jpg&hash=d5cf802995ae8d78bd0eeebda96b8e5d301c157d)
Standard k03 engine, producing peak TORQUE of 220lb/ft at 2200rpm. Which equates to about 120bhp, at 2200rpm.
Peak POWER at a shade over 200bhp at 6000rpm. Which equates to about 175lb/ft, at 6000rpm.
Imagine the torque curve peaking identically at 220lb/ft @ 2200rpm, but instead of tapering to 175lb/ft @ 6000rpm it tapers to say 130lb/ft @ 6000rpm (due to possible boost problem).
That 130lb/ft @ 6000rpm would make, for argument's sake, 150bhp @ 6000rpm, and constitute the peak power figure.
So although the OP's engine is apparently making the correct stock peak torque figure, it's entirely possible to be well down on peak power at the same time.
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Thanks for all the great feedback gents.
I would like to remove the Forge DV in place for the Rev G DV but will need to spend some time reading the install instructions for the Forge one as it appears to be more complicated than just a plug and play DV. I.e. removal will be more complicated.
This was my dynograph for those interested, colours are a bit hard to differentiate but the curve starting at 34 is power and the other therefor is torque:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FVish8895%2FMy_GTI%2F20160724_215329_zpskq8oqwhr.jpg&hash=444f7e2cbbd00a134e6c9dd14676f62bad02c9ba)
You posted this as I was posting mine, and I don't think I'm too far off on my suggestion. Looks like your torque is dropping off too much.
Are these figures at the fly or wheels though....?
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@AJP (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11926) can you elaborate on this?
Are you saying that his log of 150bhp was a snapshot when torque was highest? Could his bhp have been higher at some other point on the dyno?
One of my old graphs. Ignore the Stage 1 curves.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160725%2F9dff8f9464611a41c9408e74686bbd4d.jpg&hash=d5cf802995ae8d78bd0eeebda96b8e5d301c157d)
Standard k03 engine, producing peak TORQUE of 220lb/ft at 2200rpm. Which equates to about 120bhp, at 2200rpm.
Peak POWER at a shade over 200bhp at 6000rpm. Which equates to about 175lb/ft, at 6000rpm.
Imagine the torque curve peaking identically at 220lb/ft @ 2200rpm, but instead of tapering to 175lb/ft @ 6000rpm it tapers to say 130lb/ft @ 6000rpm (due to possible boost problem).
That 130lb/ft @ 6000rpm would make, for argument's sake, 150bhp @ 6000rpm, and constitute the peak power figure.
So although the OP's engine is apparently making the correct stock peak torque figure, it's entirely possible to be well down on peak power at the same time.
Thanks so much for the in depth detail in your explanations, that has cleared a lot up!
I am letting the dealer's garage assess the issue in the first instance but i doubt they will be familiar with the Forge DV so God knows what they'll do or find...
Thanks all :)
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I think they are at the fly, when it was on the tuners old dyno they quoted WHP with an estimated bhp. On this one they're quoting bhp so I imagine at the fly.
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No problem mate. I'm sure you'll get it sorted quick enough. DV issues and boost leaks don't usually cause much head-scratching!
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No problem mate. I'm sure you'll get it sorted quick enough. DV issues and boost leaks don't usually cause much head-scratching!
Yeah I didn't think they would but having only owned the car 24 hours I thought I best get the dealer to sort it rather than me start messing and possibly void my rights!
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Thanks @AJP (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11926)
What I can see though is over the entire rev range, his dyno only maxes out at 150bhp. I thought at one point over this graph it would have gotten close.
Is something amiss here? Is his DV/PCV the likeyl candidate and a second run after this fix would show closer to 200bhp over the range?
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Thanks @AJP (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11926)
What I can see though is over the entire rev range, his dyno only maxes out at 150bhp. I thought at one point over this graph it would have gotten close.
Is something amiss here? Is his DV/PCV the likeyl candidate and a second run after this fix would show closer to 200bhp over the range?
Well yes... I think we've established that something is obviously amiss here.
If you look at the graph I posted you'll see how a healthy k03 dyno looks. Compare that to his.
Firstly, it's reaching peak torque much too late, towards 4000rpm. Then immediately dropping off. It's almost impossible to say what exactly is causing this just by looking at the graph, but making sure the DV, PCV, cam follower etc are in order is good general practice to start with.
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Hi guys,
Sorry for going quiet, I have been on holiday for 2 weeks! Itching to get back and get this leak diagnosed.
Visited Niki down at R-Tech today and he was really helpful. They smoke tested it and straight away we could see smoke coming from behind the engine.
Niki and the lads pulled the Forge DV off and replaced it with the Rev G. The Forge DV was covered in oil, making it very clear it was leaking.
As soon as the Rev G DV went in the car felt so much better. Same pickup and go, but rather than dying down after 4k revs it just kept pulling like it was going to rev forever.
Very grateful to the lads down at R-Tech for sorting her out and now looking forward to doing a MAJOR service inc. the cam follower.
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Great news, testament to R-Tech and their customer service and yet another leaky Forge DV.
Enjoy!
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Yes I am very happy to have her running healthy!
Checked the cam follower today, the car is currently at 80K with no documents to say the cam follower has been changed. Looking at the condition of the follower and the o-ring on the HPFP I would say it looks like it has been changed. I think I will wait to replace it until I do a full service in the coming weeks.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FVish8895%2FMy_GTI%2F20160810_114736_zpso6cp9gtq.jpg&hash=40841e42d31bd9aa548fcccffd19c7fa0313b2d2)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FVish8895%2FMy_GTI%2Fhpfp-cam-follower-tfsi_zpsnmkfjor2.jpg&hash=e12dcec21e285b61532a1684941d3ae1fa282b1e)