Post by: george_seamons on August 05, 2016, 12:38:04 pm
I have developed a plug-and-play solution to the problematic TFSI thrust washer wearing caused by having to start certain VAG cars with the clutch depressed. This problem is exaggerated with uprated clutches. Once the problem sets in, the crank and block are then toast, so a new engine is needed.
This kit involves unplugging the electrical plug to the clutch switch, plugging it into the harness, then plugging the harness into the clutch switch. That's it...no cutting/soldering/messing about with multi meters etc, and it's reversible if you ever want to remove it (selling the car etc). Cruise control functions, and over-rev protection are still kept fully functional.
Will come with comprehensive instructions, which detail fitment, with clear pictures.
It was developed on a '57 plate Audi S3 8P, but will fit pretty much every VAG car of the same era/shape. Check with me if you're not sure though. Not sure about the A3/S3 8V or Mk7 Golf shape (or other MQB platforms) yet (Mk6 works), awaiting confirmation from Alex at AKS.
Please head over to the For Sale section for price etc...don't want to break any rules!
Post by: Flyingscotsman on August 05, 2016, 07:18:01 pm
Why is it a bad idea to start with clutch depressed?
Post by: r5gtt on August 05, 2016, 07:24:02 pm
Post by: Flyingscotsman on August 05, 2016, 07:56:06 pm
Post by: george_seamons on August 05, 2016, 08:18:32 pm
I have sold 18 sets in 10 hours, and have been approached by a big name for a bulk buy...so it's a problem people are keen to avoid!
Post by: Flyingscotsman on August 05, 2016, 08:22:55 pm
Post by: r5gtt on August 05, 2016, 08:27:12 pm
TFSI's have a poor thrust washer design, several have failed because of the extra forces an uprated clutch puts on them. When the crank turns against the washers with no oil pressure, it accelerates the wear.Great info if this is the case people should fit it who have manual transmission. Good luck for the future in the sales only this product. :grin:
I have sold 18 sets in 10 hours, and have been approached by a big name for a bulk buy...so it's a problem people are keen to avoid!
Post by: Flyingscotsman on August 05, 2016, 08:55:40 pm
Is this a device that lets you start an automatic with the clutch disengaged?
Post by: Dan_FR on August 05, 2016, 09:11:02 pm
With the clutch depressed, all of the clamping pressure is transferred (thanks to the release bearing) against the crank laterally, pushing it toward the cambelt side of the engine. On start up there is no oil pressure, and that coupled with a poor thrust washer design leads to dry running & excessive wear to the block & crank during startup. It is made a lot worse with uprated clutches which have a higher clamping force.
You really are a lot better off starting the car in neutral with your foot off the clutch pedal. Fair play to George for putting in the time and effort to come up with such a simple solution
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 05, 2016, 09:13:40 pm
Am I missing something here? If the clutch is disengaged the starter is turning LESS mass so any forces and wear are going to be reduced?
Is this a device that lets you start an automatic with the clutch disengaged?
Same misconception I had. Pressing the clutch pedal when starting causes more wear
Post by: r5gtt on August 05, 2016, 09:14:11 pm
Post by: Flyingscotsman on August 05, 2016, 09:24:36 pm
Post by: AJP on August 05, 2016, 10:42:09 pm
I'll bear this fix in mind if and when I move to a car that necessitates a depressed clutch on startup.
Post by: bad devotions on August 05, 2016, 11:20:24 pm
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Post by: Dan_FR on August 06, 2016, 09:06:17 am
Interesting... I always stay the car with the clutch depressed. Thought it was easier on the engine. Also I have a 2013 touran and that simply will not start unless you have the clutch depressed. Even tells you on the dash :SThat's exactly why it was made, for cars that won't start without a clutch press, such as the S3. Not all engines suffer this problem, it's just a design flaw with the Gen 1 TFSI engines.
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Post by: grey golfster on August 06, 2016, 09:59:53 am
Well I'm glad I read this thread. I've always depressed the clutch on startup. Thought it was good practice. I've got an uprated clutch too
I'll bear this fix in mind if and when I move to a car that necessitates a depressed clutch on startup.
[/quotde]
+1
Thanks for the info, and to OP for inadvertently bringing this to our attention. GLWS. I'm convinced, but i have no need for it on this car...
I have always started all my cars with the clutch depressed, probably reinforced by often parking on steep hills and so always in gear.
Post by: r5gtt on August 06, 2016, 02:08:45 pm
Post by: AJP on August 06, 2016, 02:33:46 pm
Post by: r5gtt on August 06, 2016, 03:49:01 pm
Post by: Flyingscotsman on August 06, 2016, 08:25:13 pm
Interesting... I always stay the car with the clutch depressed. Thought it was easier on the engine. Also I have a 2013 touran and that simply will not start unless you have the clutch depressed. Even tells you on the dash :SThat's exactly why it was made, for cars that won't start without a clutch press, such as the S3. Not all engines suffer this problem, it's just a design flaw with the Gen 1 TFSI engines.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
@Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) which ones are the Gen 1 TFSI engines that suffer from this, AXX only or
BWA, BPY & BYD also?
I guess this device not needed for GTI but still trying to work out whether to start with clutch depressed or not.
Post by: AJP on August 06, 2016, 08:42:23 pm
Post by: Flyingscotsman on August 06, 2016, 08:51:40 pm
Post by: Octoparrot on August 06, 2016, 10:16:43 pm
Post by: Nasir on August 06, 2016, 10:56:45 pm
Post by: r5gtt on August 07, 2016, 01:02:14 am
Post by: george_seamons on August 07, 2016, 07:01:51 am
A few out of the tens of thousands they made isn't a sign of a problem to me. Not doubting that there is a problem, but it doesn't seem that widespread.It's not hugely widespread, but the installation of an upgraded clutch greatly increases the likelyhood of it occurring.
Some people (I have sold 30+ in 24 hours) are happy to pay the small price for peace of mind, others aren't fussed...just depends on the owner :)
Post by: rich83 on August 07, 2016, 09:30:43 am
Post by: v4rley on August 07, 2016, 11:01:11 am
He has took his time to develop something to overcome a problem. Then offered to supply fellow vag enthusiast, at a small cost in the who sceme of car maintenance/ modding.
Post by: rich83 on August 07, 2016, 11:39:58 am
Post by: george_seamons on August 07, 2016, 11:56:21 am
If you really are that reluctant to pay £22, PM me and I will show you where to get the parts and you can figure it out for yourself :)
Post by: r5gtt on August 07, 2016, 12:10:13 pm
A real enthusiast would give you the information to enable you to make your own. :booty:I'd personally say george wants to make a few quid on these so be happy for him as he's put time and effort into this :happy2:
Post by: Nasir on August 07, 2016, 12:42:39 pm
Post by: v4rley on August 07, 2016, 12:47:59 pm
Criminal
Post by: george_seamons on August 07, 2016, 12:51:52 pm
Well a 43% mark up isn't bad by any means. So in the last 24 hours you've made £180 (£6 x 30 sold). Not bad doing and you definitely can't say you're not making anything.
Unbelievable. Am I supposed to do it for nothing then?! £6 for 1 unit is the equivalent of £24 p/h...not exactly a killing!
Making 30 means 8 hours work...
If I wanted to do it properly and make money, I would be selling them for £30-£40 each, and making a decent profit.
Like I say, if the £22 is really that much of a problem, PM me and I'll show you where to get the parts.
Post by: grey golfster on August 07, 2016, 02:58:32 pm
Perhpas our evident "carefulness" is why some here won't buy A3s, especially non quattro!
Post by: Flyingscotsman on August 07, 2016, 03:30:32 pm
I don't need one of these as my car (like most mk5's) doesn't have a clutch switch.
Nevertheless I am interested in knowing how big a problem the issue of the thrust bearing is and on what models, as I like a number on here it appears, have always started my car with the clutch depressed even thought I have a choice.
Good luck with the sales to those who need/want them george :happy2:
Post by: r5gtt on August 07, 2016, 03:45:15 pm
^^Your bulbs ^^
Criminal
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 07, 2016, 03:46:03 pm
What's the problem?
Post by: v4rley on August 07, 2016, 05:13:03 pm
^^Your bulbs ^^
Criminal
Open your eyes. :doh: it was sarcasm to the above post
I was the first bloke to praise him for his efforts
Post by: r5gtt on August 07, 2016, 06:08:17 pm
:signLOL: and so was I :P^^Your bulbs ^^
Criminal
Open your eyes. :doh: it was sarcasm to the above post
I was the first bloke to praise him for his efforts
Post by: Nasir on August 07, 2016, 06:18:57 pm
What you're doing is scaremongering people with a small outlay of £22 to avoid the exceedingly small and undocumented chance of a large outlay (engine failure due to this "issue").
But if scaremongering works on some people and its okay to have for sale ads the general section, then continue as you were.
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 07, 2016, 06:31:04 pm
I can't find much evidence of this issue. If you google actual problems with the TFSI engine you get loads of hits, but this issue isn't talked about. Think about how many engines were made with this part and how many have failed.
What you're doing is scaremongering people with a small outlay of £22 to avoid the exceedingly small and undocumented chance of a large outlay (engine failure due to this "issue").
But if scaremongering works on some people and its okay to have for sale ads the general section, then continue as you were.
I was in the habbit of starting the car with the clutch pressed. Thinking I was doing a good thing mechanically.
@vRSAlex (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1981) found my bearings to be f**ked after 65k of uprated clutch use.
Post by: Flyingscotsman on August 07, 2016, 07:43:56 pm
Still, if it's a weak point then why do VW recommend starting this way and even make some cars so that you have to. There must be some other advantages they think outweighs the risk.
Post by: AJP on August 07, 2016, 07:49:22 pm
I'm sure it's still a 'concern' with a standard clutch, so I'd imagine if you can get into the habit of starting off the clutch in neutral, then no harm done.
It's almost ingrained into me though, depressing the clutch.
And to those who are slagging this guy off, for solving a problem and building a little business around it, maybe just don't comment at all?
Post by: Neil 54 on August 07, 2016, 08:31:20 pm
Post by: AJP on August 07, 2016, 09:12:18 pm
So is the general opinion that all of us with uprated clutches now start our cars without the clutch pedal depressedYes.
Post by: george_seamons on August 07, 2016, 09:27:27 pm
I can't find much evidence of this issue. If you google actual problems with the TFSI engine you get loads of hits, but this issue isn't talked about. Think about how many engines were made with this part and how many have failed.It's not exactly scaremongering. I'm just offering a product with a solution to an issue that CAN occur. It won't happen to every single TFSI engine, obviously. However, those people running an uprated clutch do increase the chances of it happening, so anything to counteract engine wear can only be a good thing.
What you're doing is scaremongering people with a small outlay of £22 to avoid the exceedingly small and undocumented chance of a large outlay (engine failure due to this "issue").
But if scaremongering works on some people and its okay to have for sale ads the general section, then continue as you were.
Just because you can't find something on Google, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I personally know of at least three cases where the uprated clutch was a direct cause of the wear. All of those cars were started with the clutch depressed every time.
I really don't see the issue. You obviously don't want one...that's fine, nobody is forcing you to buy one. I have sold lots though, so clearly people think it warrants the money.
As for selling in the general section, I'm not selling in here, as it quite clearly states. I have spoken to the admin of the site and they are perfectly happy with it being here.
Post by: vRSAlex on August 08, 2016, 11:52:35 am
I've seen the thrust washer wear on stock clutched, and uprated clutched cars. Either cars that you have to press the pedal down to start, or where the owner does it by habit, or being told that its better on the engine/gearbox etc.
I personally don't like having to press the pedal to start the car. Worse when its on a ramp and opening the door to get in is a pita.
Give George a break. Its a good mod for those that understand, and he isn't in it to make millions.
Post by: unzippy on August 08, 2016, 01:06:35 pm
Give George a break. Its a good mod for those that understand, and he isn't in it to make millions.
Even if he is, there is no need to slag him off. Just don't buy it.
Good on him.
Post by: r5gtt on August 08, 2016, 11:03:14 pm
Post by: Flyingscotsman on August 09, 2016, 01:35:21 pm
Post by: pudding on July 15, 2022, 12:18:02 pm
Just stumbled onto this thread on Google whilst trying to figure out what the purpose of the clutch switch is on GTIs, other than for Cruise control?
I've got a bizarre rev limiter type thing kicking in at around 1000rpm when pulling away in 1st gear, which sounds like a deep rumbling noise. Occasionally get an unwanted rev blip at slow speeds without me touching the gas pedal, so I was going to yank the clutch switch to see if it helps.