MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: r5gtt on August 06, 2016, 09:37:49 pm
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What do you reckon?.
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Excellent product and Bruce is a top man, He's very helpful if you have any queries.
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I'm going for it as it lowers intake air temps and combustion temps :smiley:
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I'm going for it as it lowers intake air temps and combustion temps :smiley:
Sounds like a pain in the arse to set up and run though.
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I'll sort something out mate I always do. :wink:
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I looked into it, Devils own has some nice kit, the one potential scare story was malfunctioning controllers which meant the pump ran when the engine was not running, basically in this scenario the entire tank of water dumps into the intake. Obviously not great come startup with a inlet full of water.
The Devils own stuff sounds good but is relatively simple, just runs off boost which means when you hit the rev limiter, it continues to pump water/meth even if injector or timing has cut. Meth itself is combustible, so your engine is running super lean on just meth (obviously not good). I am not sure how the rev limiter comes in on the MKV.
I looked into Aquamist systems, these have more safety measures, they hook into a injector signal and only allow water injection when the engine is running and injecting fuel. They also calculate the amount of water to inject based on fuel injection rate and boost. Overall a safer, more complex but more costly system.
I was really keen to go water/meth for the ability to run more timing etc, but wimped out the more I read into it ! :laugh:
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Simple basic reliable boost activated mechanical switch is all you need. Seen nothing but problems with the Devils Own controllers. Been running the basic 6-30 psi kit for 18 months now and would thoroughly recommend it on high boost Stage 2/2+ setups
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This is what I was told.
Nope this is the 30psi boost switch model
You can set it to the boost pressure switch level so when you hit 14 psi it will spray.
Switch anything from 0-30psi
It also has an overide on and off flick switch with LED solenoid upgrade and can run it through the throttle body manifold vacuum line. D04 nozzle injector. 10 litre tank with a 30psi boost switch. complete kit.
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Simple basic reliable boost activated mechanical switch is all you need. Seen nothing but problems with the Devils Own controllers. Been running the basic 6-30 psi kit for 18 months now and would thoroughly recommend it on high boost Stage 2/2+ setups
Sorry didn't quite understand that @Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) can you repeat that in simple terms please?. What's a basic 6-30psi kit?.
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Think hes saying a mechanical switch is much better then the controller. Which is your kit that you are looking at?
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Thanks for that @Peskyjones (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11854) this is why I'm looking at this one as I did ask the seller if it has a manual controller and he told me it's with the extra bit's in the kit. I personally don't like the digital controller as it was all over the tt forum but wasn't for me. :happy2:
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This is what I was told.
Nope this is the 30psi boost switch model
You can set it to the boost pressure switch level so when you hit 14 psi it will spray.
Switch anything from 0-30psi
It also has an overide on and off flick switch with LED solenoid upgrade and can run it through the throttle body manifold vacuum line. D04 nozzle injector. 10 litre tank with a 30psi boost switch. complete kit.
I know the kit for sale that you are talking about - didn't seem particularly cheap to me.
it sounds like you have the basic 6-30 psi switch which is fine
An override switch is just a 50p toggle switch, and the LED is worth about 7p
The solenoid is a worthwhile upgrade over the checkvalve though
D04 is too big for a K03 GTI, you will need something smaller. What stage of tune are you and what are your power goals?
10 litre tank is only needed if you want a separate tank in the boot instead of utilising the washer bottle in the engine bay. Does it come with all of the wiring, and all of the hard plastic meth lines that you will need to run through the car?
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I run a meth kit with a 10litre tank.
Its a coolingmist kit with a boost activated switch. never had any problems with it.
You simply, set what PSI you want it to start injection at then your on your way.
I have mine hooked up to an 12v on of switch so I can run it when I want to.
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This is what I was told.
Nope this is the 30psi boost switch model
You can set it to the boost pressure switch level so when you hit 14 psi it will spray.
Switch anything from 0-30psi
It also has an overide on and off flick switch with LED solenoid upgrade and can run it through the throttle body manifold vacuum line. D04 nozzle injector. 10 litre tank with a 30psi boost switch. complete kit.
I know the kit for sale that you are talking about - didn't seem particularly cheap to me.
it sounds like you have the basic 6-30 psi switch which is fine
An override switch is just a 50p toggle switch, and the LED is worth about 7p
The solenoid is a worthwhile upgrade over the checkvalve though
D04 is too big for a K03 GTI, you will need something smaller. What stage of tune are you and what are your power goals?
10 litre tank is only needed if you want a separate tank in the boot instead of utilising the washer bottle in the engine bay. Does it come with all of the wiring, and all of the hard plastic meth lines that you will need to run through the car?
I'm looking at stage 2
It's not really cheap but the seller isn't budging.
Here's the kit in a mess
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1374.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag433%2FSandy1786%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2FFB_IMG_1470657011044.jpg&hash=daa6be48b7e7cf7c43a936a85c84b39704855dc1)
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You'll probably need a D02 nozzle in that case. I have a D03 and it is a bit on the big side really.
Have you considered how you would mount the nozzle? e.g. a TB spacer, aftermarket throttle pipe etc.?
You'll probably need to order more of the plastic piping too, you'll definitely need a smaller nozzle, and you'll need a Boost take-off for the inlet manifold (which one will depend on current PCV setup i.e. standard, PCV delete etc.) That's assuming that everything else you'll need is present, e.g. nozzle holder, tank tap etc. as I can't see them in that picture
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Ah thanks for the information Mate. I'm probably going to get a throttle body adaptor tbh or could you point me in the right direction of locating other?.
I don't mind getting some more piping and a smaller nozzle if it will help my car run well.
I have a standard pcv set up but do have a newsouth boost tap if that helps.
Still awaiting a reply from the seller who's taking his time replying and doesn't give me his number. :confused:
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Devils own sell all the extra parts, boost taps etc, everything except the throttle body spacer which AKS have :happy2:
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Cheers :signLOL:@Madone (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11196) :smiley: gotta love this forum for all the help we get :grouphug:
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Better to buy brand new so no f****** about lol
http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=21&product_id=28
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Discount code ' VT_net' helps too :happy2:
Get the solenoid upgrade if injecting after the TB. Don't forget a tank is extra, or you can do what I do and use the washer bottle
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Brilliant I didnt see a discount code :doh: thanks for that. How easy is it to use a seperate washer bottle?.
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When I spoke to Devils own they recommended the DC30 kit for a golf, they also said you need the solenoid valve if using a throttle plate otherwise the vacuum will suck water out of the line. If you are taping into the intercooler or throttle pipe you are ok with the normal valve. They recommend using a separate tank to me (but Dan has successfully used the washer bottle) :happy2:
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When I spoke to Devils own they recommended the DC30 kit for a golf, they also said you need the solenoid valve if using a throttle plate otherwise the vacuum will suck water out of the line. If you are taping into the intercooler or throttle pipe you are ok with the normal valve. They recommend using a separate tank to me (but Dan has successfully used the washer bottle) :happy2:
Correct. I only use a checkvalve and its been fine for a few years now.
If you want a subtle approach then go for the washbottle as it also tells you when fluid is low.
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Sounds crazy to me :evilgrin:
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A company will always recommend their best / most expensive product (DVC30 and a separate tank) as its more money..... Don't get me wrong it is 'better' but is it really needed?
The number of failures reported of that controller is enough to put me off. Especially if it fails leavening the meth pump permanently on as has been seen recently.
FYI I have tried TB injection with just a checkvalve as I was curious.... In reality it uses next to nothing but worth the upgrade for peace of mind.
Whether you use a separate tank or the washer makes no difference, you still cut the correct sized hole and use a 'tank tap'. I just didn't fancy having 10L of Methanol in my boot just a few inches away from where my son sits
I wanted a low-key install. Aside from the TB spacer you couldn't even tell I had WMI installed, you don't even need to run any wiring in to the car. 100% contained in the engine bay
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Agreed, once it started to get complex with controllers and tanks of meth in the boot I got cold feet.
Aquamist make a big deal about their safety features, but are in another price bracket all together.
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A company will always recommend their best / most expensive product (DVC30 and a separate tank) as its more money..... Don't get me wrong it is 'better' but is it really needed?
The number of failures reported of that controller is enough to put me off. Especially if it fails leavening the meth pump permanently on as has been seen recently.
FYI I have tried TB injection with just a checkvalve as I was curious.... In reality it uses next to nothing but worth the upgrade for peace of mind.
Whether you use a separate tank or the washer makes no difference, you still cut the correct sized hole and use a 'tank tap'. I just didn't fancy having 10L of Methanol in my boot just a few inches away from where my son sits
I wanted a low-key install. Aside from the TB spacer you couldn't even tell I had WMI installed, you don't even need to run any wiring in to the car. 100% contained in the engine bay
I Agree that is sensible having your little one in th back from time to time.
What size is the washer tank?
Worth having a fire extinguisher just in case(even though you meth flames are invisible....but still)
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Around 5 litres from memory. I top it up every week when I check my oil, coolant, tyres etc. Normally only get through a litre or so a week including washer use when needed.
I have a fire extinguisher in the pocket on the back of the passenger seat, within reach should it ever be needed. Should probably check the expiration date on it now you mention it
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Sounds crazy to me :evilgrin:
Tbh the more I looked into it the more I got put off, not because water meth injection as a concept isn't great, it clearly is, but to do it safely seemed more expensive than where I wanted to be. I had a long chat with a very techy guy at Aquamist, he explained how water meth should be metered against fuel rather than boost for correct ratio, he also went on about correct nozzle sizes etc etc. I started off just wanted to pull something together and reap the benefits, but got cold feet. Sounds like Dan has had no trouble with his setup so it's prob not as bad as it seems. :laugh:
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When I spoke to Devils own they recommended the DC30 kit for a golf, they also said you need the solenoid valve if using a throttle plate otherwise the vacuum will suck water out of the line. If you are taping into the intercooler or throttle pipe you are ok with the normal valve. They recommend using a separate tank to me (but Dan has successfully used the washer bottle) :happy2:
I don't fancy compromising the washer bottle as I need to wash and wipe the windows.
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When I spoke to Devils own they recommended the DC30 kit for a golf, they also said you need the solenoid valve if using a throttle plate otherwise the vacuum will suck water out of the line. If you are taping into the intercooler or throttle pipe you are ok with the normal valve. They recommend using a separate tank to me (but Dan has successfully used the washer bottle) :happy2:
Correct. I only use a checkvalve and its been fine for a few years now.
If you want a subtle approach then go for the washbottle as it also tells you when fluid is low.
I'm wondering if there is a space in the bay for an additional bottle?.
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A company will always recommend their best / most expensive product (DVC30 and a separate tank) as its more money..... Don't get me wrong it is 'better' but is it really needed?
The number of failures reported of that controller is enough to put me off. Especially if it fails leavening the meth pump permanently on as has been seen recently.
FYI I have tried TB injection with just a checkvalve as I was curious.... In reality it uses next to nothing but worth the upgrade for peace of mind.
Whether you use a separate tank or the washer makes no difference, you still cut the correct sized hole and use a 'tank tap'. I just didn't fancy having 10L of Methanol in my boot just a few inches away from where my son sits
I wanted a low-key install. Aside from the TB spacer you couldn't even tell I had WMI installed, you don't even need to run any wiring in to the car. 100% contained in the engine bay
Yes a company will try sell you the most expensive product as it is better but as you said is it needed.
Great I'll probably get a cheap tank off ebay and use that as long as it doesn't leak. are you using pure alcohol or part water @ what percentage @Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) thanks
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Do people also drill into the throttle body with a tap and die?.
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My plan was a separate bottle, like you need to wash the Windows :laugh:
There is space by the battery if you don't have a induction filter there ?.
I was looking at the dc30 kit with tank in the boot, progressive controller and a extra kill switch to turn the system off. The Devils own guy said the correct mixture of meth/water for the engine isn't great to be sprayed on your window and running over you paint etc. And anything which makes good screen wash doesn't work great for spraying into the engine. :scared:
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Do people also drill into the throttle body with a tap and die?.
The throttle body spacer from AKS has the hole already drilled and taped. Best to just buy that. Easy to fit
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My plan was a separate bottle, like you need to wash the Windows :laugh:
There is space by the battery if you don't have a induction filter there ?.
I was looking at the dc30 kit with tank in the boot, progressive controller and a extra kill switch to turn the system off. The Devils own guy said the correct mixture of meth/water for the engine isn't great to be sprayed on your window and running over you paint etc. And anything which makes good screen wash doesn't work great for spraying into the engine. :scared:
Yeah can't compromise on the windows lol
Oh that's good to know as I don't want an induction kit any more and don't really need one with the exhaust screaming at me :signLOL:
Thanks
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Do people also drill into the throttle body with a tap and die?.
The throttle body spacer from AKS has the hole already drilled and taped. Best to just buy that. Easy to fit
I'll have a lot of work on my hands as I want to also do the runner flap delete too as I have the parts but just haven't had the time and it's inlet off for that too. :sad1: may as well get it all done then.
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£85 for a f****** spacer :scared: that's kinda steep. does alex do forum discounts lol
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Haha, not sure worth a try. At this rate you will put yourself of doing it like I did :jumpmove:
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how did you do it :signLOL:
I may opt for a creation motor copy :rolleye:
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I'm answering these in order of reading them so:
You can still use the washers for your windows! Most screenwashs contain up to 50% methanol anyway and majority of the rest is water! Screenwash just has soap and some colour! Methanol/alcohol will not damage your paint - scaremongering again. If it did I would have needed a respray by now! It doesnt even strip the wax protection off
You use a TB spacer which has the appropriate hole for a WMI nozzle holder
Space in the bay will be very limited, I doubt a decent size bottle would fit and you would be better off with a decent induction kit than WMI - I've seen the standard airbox cost 15-20hp at Stage 2+ - Get a VWR one if you want quiet but its foolish not having one.
£85 is the price for a decent product. No discounts and DO NOT get the CM one. It doesn't fit properly, comes with the wrong screws and ruins the spray pattern of the WMI injector - NOT AN OPTION (I learnt the hard way!). Either get the TB spacer from AKS or buy an aftermarket throttle pipe that has a boss welded on for the WMI.
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£85 for a f****** spacer :scared: that's kinda steep. does alex do forum discounts lol
For what it is, it is expensive....... but its the cheapest kit for sale and we know it actually works.
In my case I have the uprated throttle body pipework. I brought a NPT bung anf got it welded below the map sensor for a fraction of the cost. works fine and doesnt cost a bomb. obviously you have to get it drilled and welded/tapped but if you want a plug and play solution then AKS tuning is the way forward
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Right No to creations.
Where can I locate an after market throttle pipe with a boss welded into it from?. or do I have to get this welded myself?.
Thanks
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£85 for a f****** spacer :scared: that's kinda steep. does alex do forum discounts lol
For what it is, it is expensive....... but its the cheapest kit for sale and we know it actually works.
In my case I have the uprated throttle body pipework. I brought a NPT bung anf got it welded below the map sensor for a fraction of the cost. works fine and doesnt cost a bomb. obviously you have to get it drilled and welded/tapped but if you want a plug and play solution then AKS tuning is the way forward
Seems like the £££ keeps going up and up each mod and then have to mod that mod ff* :doh:
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Right No to creations.
Where can I locate an after market throttle pipe with a boss welded into it from?. or do I have to get this welded myself?.
Thanks
I have the throttle body pipe for k04 and a boss you can have if your interested. PM me
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:happy2:
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Reviving an old thread but...wouldn't it be lovely to have the IE or similar inlet manifold with built in meth injection ports!
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Reviving an old thread but...wouldn't it be lovely to have the IE or similar inlet manifold with built in meth injection ports!
Like this one - http://www.akstuning.co.uk/engine-mounts/357-rpc-uprated-intake-manifold-tfsitsi.html
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Yep! I saw that they started selling them the other day. I also saw somewhere that the IE manifold had cracked under big pressures which is thought to be down to the weakness the logo plaque causes. I did actually click on the AKS RPC link when they announced it to see if it was the same scenario - but got distracted before it loaded - it appears not! RPC for the win
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Would you see much gains from it though?? The TFSI/TSI head does flow well...
I guess its more needed if your looking for A BT build i suppose
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Yeah I think it is only needed for BT builds. You'd be forging before this I expect
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Pointless and money down the drain if you ask me. Stick to the conventional way and tap the jet into the inlet pipe or get your AKS adapter and job done :happy2:
Seen that IE manifold all blown apart and couldn't fathom out whether it's meth that did it or Noz as that's a mighty solid manifold to have blown its welds :thinking:
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Pointless and money down the drain if you ask me. Stick to the conventional way and tap the jet into the inlet pipe or get your AKS adapter and job done :happy2:
Seen that IE manifold all blown apart and couldn't fathom out whether it's meth that did it or Noz as that's a mighty solid manifold to have blown its welds :thinking:
Its not sold for the meth injection, its sold for flow needed for BT builds. Waste of money if you buy it for meth injection only!
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Meth up the throttle hole is not as effective as meth up each injector port tbh, although some meth is better than no meth if you're going down that path :smiley:
Yeah I never could see the point of that removable logo plate on the IE intake. I think it's just to show off the velocity stacks inside.
The RPC item looks like a good product. Or you can buy exactly the same thing with Bar-Tek written on it for a lot more money :stupid: - https://www.bar-tek-tuning.de/en/2_0l-tfsi-tsi-intake-manifold
Honestly, some of the pricing for TFSI tuning stuff is utterly ridiculous. £500 for a drain pipe with a filter on the end on that website. I don't get it.
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Meth up the throttle hole is not as effective as meth up each injector port tbh, although some meth is better than no meth if you're going down that path :smiley:
Yeah I never could see the point of that removable logo plate on the IE intake. I think it's just to show off the velocity stacks inside.
The RPC item looks like a good product. Or you can buy exactly the same thing with Bar-Tek written on it for a lot more money :stupid: - https://www.bar-tek-tuning.de/en/2_0l-tfsi-tsi-intake-manifold
Honestly, some of the pricing for TFSI tuning stuff is utterly ridiculous. £500 for a drain pipe with a filter on the end on that website. I don't get it.
Not sure I totally agree with that.. Both are affected methods on getting meth into the engine.
I prefer to tap into the thorttle body pipe so it give the meth time to atomize before it hits the clyinders. I had good results from this so not sure there is a right or wrong way as long as its post interooler.
The Bar-Tek, Intergrated Engineering and HPA all look pretty much the same, just with different names on them
I think it was the Intergrated engineering one that needed a map to work properly..... how ridiculous lol :grin: :grin:
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I was reading this the other night but forgot to screen shot the rest but can't find it now.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1374.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag433%2FSandy1786%2FIMG_4106.png&hash=0f7f23b5003387a7382bc83ba023b092d33af39a)
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Meth up the throttle hole is not as effective as meth up each injector port tbh, although some meth is better than no meth if you're going down that path :smiley:
Yeah I never could see the point of that removable logo plate on the IE intake. I think it's just to show off the velocity stacks inside.
The RPC item looks like a good product. Or you can buy exactly the same thing with Bar-Tek written on it for a lot more money :stupid: - https://www.bar-tek-tuning.de/en/2_0l-tfsi-tsi-intake-manifold
Honestly, some of the pricing for TFSI tuning stuff is utterly ridiculous. £500 for a drain pipe with a filter on the end on that website. I don't get it.
Not sure I totally agree with that.. Both are affected methods on getting meth into the engine.
I prefer to tap into the thorttle body pipe so it give the meth time to atomize before it hits the clyinders. I had good results from this so not sure there is a right or wrong way as long as its post interooler.
The Bar-Tek, Intergrated Engineering and HPA all look pretty much the same, just with different names on them
I think it was the Intergrated engineering one that needed a map to work properly..... how ridiculous lol :grin: :grin:
You can have 1 big meth injector before the throttle plate, and I agree, gives it time to atomise into the air stream, but have you seen the mist that comes out of a meth injector? Super fine. Or you can have 4 smaller meth injectors to guarantee even distribution across all cylinders. Different ways to skin a cat :happy2:
I have read somewhere that the plastic throttle bodies on these cars don't like extended meth dousing though. Or maybe it's the pre Q revision throttles that don't like it.
Yup, because the bottom end torque goes after deleting the runner flaps and increasing bore size. Bigger plenum volume can increase lag too, hence why VW kept to a minimum originally.
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Well best place to put the injector would be as paradox said before the map sensor even though we all know it's better going to all four cylinders but no ones going bbt so it doesn't matter too much.
The person who I purchased my kit off is well known and he recommends the same.
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Like I said, either way will work and you will get benefits.
all preference i suppose
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I spoke to the man running it in his tfsi tte 480 and he say yeah :signLOL: