MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: DubED30 on January 20, 2010, 11:13:42 pm
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At what point do I need to consider a HPFP??
I'm looking at Revo1, DV, probably Carbonio intake and a Cat back exhaust. As there is a group buy on, I was thinking about the fuel pump.
Spent a hour on the "search" and trying to check other peoples specs, but still can not find a definitive answer. I'm unlikely to go for the turbo back exhaust, IC etc so will not be going to Revo2 or 2+.
Any information gratefully received.
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You will only really need an uprated hpfp if you are running a stage 2+ map.
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but..... even in the car's stock guize it will benifit from a HPFP as the stock item isn't fully up to the job, so again the car will benifit with stage1 also :)
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What are the benefits?
Carl :happy2:
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Without wishing to tread on Carl's toes I think even Revo stage 1 requests higher than stock rail pressures.
Remember this, not bad for stage 1.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jkm.org.uk%2Fperformance%2FMisc%2FGallery%2Frollingroaddays%2FGolf%2520GTi%2520RR%2520Day%25202008%2FDyno%2520Charts%2FVRS.gif&hash=4b1b8373db1baf0f3303c1a67915c377cc524cd8)
PS. Not my car but we do know who. :wink:
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but..... even in the car's stock guize it will benifit from a HPFP as the stock item isn't fully up to the job, so again the car will benifit with stage1 also :)
....I can't say I agree with you. If you were right, it would be a very well known issue by now, rather like the oem DV was.
Obviously, an aftermarket HPFP (On JKM's advice I favour the APR over the Autotech) has benefits but unless Stage2+ or if experiencing misfires/fuel-cuts I don't think it's necessary.
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....
We know that the Revo2+ map needs a HPFP, but does an aftermarket HPFP really need Stage 2+?
Other than solving potential misfires/fuel-cuts, what are the benefits of an aftermarket HPFP?
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when even revo carl states it is a good idea even at stage 1, must mean something especially as he wont gain anything by saying that
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Actually High Pressure Fuel Pump is a bit of a mis-nomer.
They actually squirt a higher volume of fuel into the same size fuel rail which has the result of raising the rail pressure.
By making more fuel available it can fatten up the torque curve provided the engine is getting enough air irrespective of which variant of stage1/2/2+/3 you have.
See the stage 1 plot from above.
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I ran the APR pump at stg1 for a week or so and it deffo made a difference, the throttle response seemed crisper throughout the rev range
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If you monitor your rail pressure VCDS engine block 230 you will see that the standard HPFP does struggle even at stage 1. This will be very apparent if you are running a high boost setting.
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but..... even in the car's stock guize it will benifit from a HPFP as the stock item isn't fully up to the job, so again the car will benifit with stage1 also :)
....I can't say I agree with you. If you were right, it would be a very well known issue by now, rather like the oem DV was.
Obviously, an aftermarket HPFP (On JKM's advice I favour the APR over the Autotech) has benefits but unless Stage2+ or if experiencing misfires/fuel-cuts I don't think it's necessary.
It is a well known issue, it has plagued the mapping of the 2.0T from day one and everyone has had to work around it.
You're looking at this from the wrong perspective. You don't NEED one because every tuner has mapped accordingly to work within the limits of the OEM pump.. It is the compromise the HPFP removes.
Now, I agree Robin. I've said I'm more than happy with stage2 for a long time but it has always niggled me that I know I'm near its limit.. £250 is a drop in the ocean for that peace of mind.
Lastly - I can't believe you're going for that APR propeganda and dismissing Carl's advice, I'm sure he doesn't care what pump you fit, he isn't getting the profit off it. Sure Autotech might have had a few bad uns early on, but that statement put out by JKM was a bit too far if you ask me. Autotech 100% addressed the issue.
I don't know of 1 failure, do you? I understand why JKM said what they said, and why they may not want to supply based on old events. But you can't completely write something off without first listening to those telling you the problem is no longer there.
Don't make me break out the Milltek/VWR not getting it right first time analogy again :P
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Thanks for all the replys. I guess paranoia plays a big part. :confused:
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As I said in the other thread I have had autotech internals in mine for over 40k with no issues
So they obviously did something right first time round.
Carl :happy2:
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but..... even in the car's stock guize it will benifit from a HPFP as the stock item isn't fully up to the job, so again the car will benifit with stage1 also :)
....I can't say I agree with you. If you were right, it would be a very well known issue by now, rather like the oem DV was.
Obviously, an aftermarket HPFP (On JKM's advice I favour the APR over the Autotech) has benefits but unless Stage2+ or if experiencing misfires/fuel-cuts I don't think it's necessary.
Robin you can disagree with me all you like but the fact is that even with the car in it's stock guise is struggles to keep requested rail pressure, data logs prove this categorically.
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What are the benefits?
Carl :happy2:
being able to match requested fuel pressure :wink:
this will then mean that car can run at full capacity regardless of it's state of tune :happy2:
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Lastly - I can't believe you're going for that APR propeganda and dismissing Carl's advice, I'm sure he doesn't care what pump you fit, he isn't getting the profit off it. Sure Autotech might have had a few bad uns early on, but that statement put out by JKM was a bit too far if you ask me. Autotech 100% addressed the issue.
....Wrong! If you read my earlier post* you'll see that I am taking JKM's advice and it's nothing to do with "APR propoganda" - In fact, to date, I have never read anything written by APR about their pump. [*= unless it's the other thread where HPFP's are being discussed today]
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Robin you can disagree with me all you like but the fact is that even with the car in it's stock guise is struggles to keep requested rail pressure, data logs prove this categorically.
....I don't dispute your knowledge of such things but it leaves me questioning why JKM haven't advised me to fit an aftermarket HPFP, especially as they have developed my car from stock.
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What are the benefits?
Carl :happy2:
being able to match requested fuel pressure :wink:
this will then mean that car can run at full capacity regardless of it's state of tune :happy2:
....To me, that makes a lot of sense..
[Damn!! I didn't want to spend even more on modding my car!]
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Let me add my penny worth...
Anything that removes a restriction improves the "cumulative effect" of all the other running components. Remapped cars typically have a slight plateau in their bhp profile - typically between 3700-4500 rpm.
It's down to sufficient fuel being available at the correct pressure...
Come on RR - you know you want to have a HPFP? :party:
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Lastly - I can't believe you're going for that APR propeganda and dismissing Carl's advice, I'm sure he doesn't care what pump you fit, he isn't getting the profit off it. Sure Autotech might have had a few bad uns early on, but that statement put out by JKM was a bit too far if you ask me. Autotech 100% addressed the issue.
....Wrong! If you read my earlier post* you'll see that I am taking JKM's advice and it's nothing to do with "APR propoganda" - In fact, to date, I have never read anything written by APR about their pump. [*= unless it's the other thread where HPFP's are being discussed today]
If Autotech sent JKM 1000 pumps with a note saying what they did to ensure there would never be another alleged 'duff' one again and every one was 100% ok, do you think they'd start selling them again?
If the answer is no, then a cynical person may think they'd been taken in by another agenda. Of course JKM are better than that, but it's happened with others...
Dirty tactics and rumour spreading on the internet - the cheap tricks of someone who can't admit they went about something the wrong way.
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As I said in the other thread I have had autotech internals in mine for over 40k with no issues
So they obviously did something right first time round.
Carl :happy2:
it isnt an on going thing. there was only a bad batch, of which the fault was rectified.
jonny has had them on both his cars and they managed to keep up with his required fueling which is pretty good testement to the internals.
I have them on mine as have many many others in Uk and america with zero problems.
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Remapped cars typically have a slight plateau in their bhp profile - typically between 3700-4500 rpm.
It's down to sufficient fuel being available at the correct pressure...
Come on RR - you know you want to have a HPFP? :party:
....What 3700-4500 rpm bhp plateau? : -
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FRR_10Dec09_CarbTwin.jpg&hash=8a65a0e34611470377f4e80bf091085f0c1a3b7e)
I'm doing all I can not to buy even more mods. So perhaps I should stop posting on this site.
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What about this one?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpbx1ng.blu.livefilestore.com%2Fy1ptB11Ak9rLmyYPGyqsRVtikUMJ-M_FX32AeSnuKZB3QAVsi9p5a0q4-tdlSiaO25908aafhYf2q-giGifgS6zRuZmY_ns64TM%2F20081216%2520Evolve%2520-%2520Torque%2520%2526%2520BHP%2520%5BDip%5D.jpg&hash=1b61a8f4f51fc624af0d76b219aeed253dac1aac)
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Remapped cars typically have a slight plateau in their bhp profile - typically between 3700-4500 rpm.
It's down to sufficient fuel being available at the correct pressure...
Come on RR - you know you want to have a HPFP? :party:
....What 3700-4500 rpm plateau? : -
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FRR_10Dec09_CarbTwin.jpg&hash=8a65a0e34611470377f4e80bf091085f0c1a3b7e)
I'm doing all I can not to buy even more mods. So perhaps I should stop posting on this site.
i think he is bang on there, you can see theplateu between 3700-4500
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What about this one?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpbx1ng.blu.livefilestore.com%2Fy1ptB11Ak9rLmyYPGyqsRVtikUMJ-M_FX32AeSnuKZB3QAVsi9p5a0q4-tdlSiaO25908aafhYf2q-giGifgS6zRuZmY_ns64TM%2F20081216%2520Evolve%2520-%2520Torque%2520%2526%2520BHP%2520%5BDip%5D.jpg&hash=1b61a8f4f51fc624af0d76b219aeed253dac1aac)
id say that was the map personally
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Let's see that car's fuel rail requested and actual pressure before going any further...
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Remapped cars typically have a slight plateau in their bhp profile - typically between 3700-4500 rpm.
i think he is bang on there, you can see theplateu between 3700-4500
....But he said "in their bhp profile". Fair enough if he meant power, ie torque.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FMods%2FTWINtake%2FRR_10Dec09_CarbTwin.jpg&hash=8a65a0e34611470377f4e80bf091085f0c1a3b7e)
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Come on Robin....don't try to wriggle out of this... accept it gracefully.
You know full well I don't know my "fingers from my thumbs" when it comes to cars. :P
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^^^^
@ Mo:
You wrote "bhp" so I looked at my bhp plot - Very simple. In retrospect you made a mistake and I made the mistake of not spotting it. No wriggling involved.
Anyway, we all learn from our mistakes. :happy2:
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....
Once you have decided at what point to fit a HPFP, the next question has to be which one? And so we have to grasp the nettle of Autotech vs APR.
It's well known that the earlier Autotech pumps had problems but I understand that those issues have been resolved. Certainly a car such as Jonny's is a good testament to the Autotech's reliability but for a supplier such as JKM to feel they can support it they would have to yet again test it numerous times.
However critical one is about APR's promotional methods and high retail price, the fact is that their HPFP has been thoroughly developed, extremely well tested and proven to be reliable - The Scirocco 24hrs and Championship Leon's are testament to that for example. What helps that is the APR being a complete unit rather than just internals which have to be installed by the consumer or a third-party workshop - A clinically clean environment for installation is essential or you risk introducing problematic variables. The APR pump is fit-and-forget and gives peace of mind.
Revo recommend the Autotech and what's especially valuable about the Revo remaps is the ability to fine tune the Boost/Timing/Fuel and hence better protect and accommodate a variety of ongoing performance hardware modifications. In my particular case, this allows me to take time to consider my options while still achieving a healthy and well balanced car. Balance is what it's all about imo rather than always seeking the max. Lots of car enthusiasts seek the absolute max: Max power and max for minimum money - But some of us are different.
Price inevitably raises its ugly head and most people constantly seek to pay as little as possible with an expectation for as much as possible in return for their money. The APR is very expensive and the Autotech is much much cheaper - Hmmm, you'll have to make up your own mind. I favour sitting back for now - My car's ECU adjusts fuelling without problems as needed within my Boost setting and delivers very enjoyable and respectable power even if it's not reaching its maximum potential. I'm happy with the balance.
If/when I do decide to get a HPFP it'll probably be the APR, fitted by JKM and fully supported. But I expect I'll get an intercooler first.
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In the interests of balance Robin, rather than posting a load of hearsay, I can give you Claudio at Autotechs email address and phone number, I know him quite well. The other side of the story is just as interesting.
I'm not going to defend anyone, they're big enough to do it themselves, but posting that kind of crap is just rediculous, ill-informed and biased.
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^^^^ Well said Mike :notworthy:
Robin, these kinds of posts really don't help anyone and just drag this site in the kind of "heated" discussions we see over the pond, as you know this is not something we welcome here.
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Robin you know we all love u but sometimes you talk crap and are always jumping on the bandwagon of the big tuners and say they are the best and everything else is the cheaper option and everything on your car is the best and u know its best as thats what u have been told by these people like jkm and others. I for one only use VWR simply as i have known Mat for a long time and he is a mate of mine from the air cooled scene and have made very good friends with the other staff and i think its good to have a race team/company out there that will test things to death and also help u if you have a problem.I dont run a uprated pump on my car yet and i for one would not go apr due to cost and the fact that all they have done is to put in an apr version of the others into a stock pump so the price is crazy :confused:.
ifact if we want to start saying products are crap or paying more gets u a better product well osir bonnet springs to mind :surprised: i would have gone vwr real carbonfiber and not paid the price from osir :laugh: its all about VFM :signLOL:
Love u Robin and u know u we all do
y am i going on :laugh:
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^^^^
Ok, so some of you aren't interested in a site member (myself in this case) sharing information, opinions and reasons of choice about the HPFP's which are currently available in the context of a thread about when to install a HPFP.
It's only my individual view, why get so fussed about it?
I'm just openly expressing one point of view or reasoning for choice rather than wishing to encourage any heated discussions. However, in hindsight I can see that my post might be interpreted as trashing Autotech when in fact all I think is that the APR pump is a preferable option for me and possibly others.
P.S. - I love you too, Mat! I would have chosen the VWR carbon bonnet over my OSIR but they weren't producing it at the time.
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:grouphug: :happy2: i think the best thing to help u Robin is to have 2 cars in the same state of tune one running apr pump one running another make running same settings on revo and both plugged into vag com so u can see if there is anything in them to warrant the crazy price of the apr pump :smiley:
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^^^^
Yep, I agree the APR price is what's called ludricous but the question is more about reliability than logs. But hey, let's not start an unpopular discussion which risks heated argument - You're calm and I'm calm but not everyone else might stay so.
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The thing is Robin there is absolutely no real world evidence out there that the APR pump is more reliable than any others. There is only hearsay.
As somebody said earlier on this thread - can you name anybody with non-apr uprated HPFP that has had a failure?
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I know of one autotech failure but wether it was due to failure or his ham fisted approach to fitting is debateable ( personally I feel it was the later as I have had mine for 40. And not had a problem. )
Carl :happy2:
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No, what you’ve done is a self indulgent diatribe into the ins and outs of hearsay.
Here’s how I see your post with a critique.
Autotech in the very early stages of production had a bad batch. This was identified and rectified years ago. No cars were affected.
JKM won’t supply/fit an Autotech pump. I understand their position and respect it, I don’t have a problem with JKM’s stance. “tedium†is another factor, so it isn’t all down to the pump quality, is it?
Every other tuner in the UK will gladly fit you an Autotech pump and it will be fine. VWR will fit one, I even bet Awesome would fit you one. There have been NO failures I am aware of, so it can’t be that hard eh? The potential for failure is of course there though, so best left to an expert rather than a home DIY job.
You cannot prove that APR’s pump has been any more well developed or tested than the competition. You only have their word.
You cannot prove they replace their pump internals in any cleaner/better an environment potentially than the competitions, somewhere along the line with both pumps the internals have to be swapped. You only have their word.
You cannot prove their pump performs any better than the competition, or is any more “fit and forgetâ€. You only have their word.
APR mapped the Scirocco race car. It stands to reason they’d use their own pump. Likewise the Leon. How many examples of race cars did you give with the Autotech pump? Biased.
With the benefit of Captain Subtext, you’re implying that Revo’s recommendation of Autotech pumps is biased because they don’t get on with APR. Ring Kev/Carl up and tell them what you’ve posted, I’m sure they’ll be delighted with you. For what it is worth, when I have spoken to either of them and mentioned an APR product in the last 5 years I’ve been dealing with them, they’ve always been positive towards them.
So, unless someone can prove otherwise I see it like this.
Both pumps do exactly the same thing, the only difference is paying APR the labour to do the build. This does have its benefits, as there’s no arguments should it be done incorrectly and there’s only one place to take it back to should it fail. But should you have someone competent enough to do the install for you, you can save yourself hundreds of pounds.
I’m sure if JKM were still doing both, you’d trust them to fit an Autotech one?
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I honestly don't have a problem with you giving you opinion and reasons for your choices, but as Matt alluded to, they are always with an added slant.
Everything you post up is basically "these are my opinions and choices, these are the best without question. Everything else is sh*t, everyone else is wrong"... with an "ETTO" caveat.
What I don't know though is why you do it? Is it to justify the decisions to yourself, or convince others into your way of thinking?
Individual choice is just that and fact is fact - leave the hearsay bullsh*t out of it, we're not in America.
I like you Robin, I respect a lot of what you say and your values, but Christ do you get carried away!!
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No, what you’ve done is a self indulgent diatribe into the ins and outs of hearsay.
....I don't take kindly to the "self indulgent diatribe" accusation. If you want continued respect from me you had better afford me some respect irrespective of whether you agree with my views.
The rest of your post I understand and see the validity of your points. The importance of using an expert for installation is the same point I made. I don't doubt that Revo have already read my words and I have no problem with that - They already know that I am someone who is expressive of my views whether right or wrong.
Yes, if JKM were still doing both then of course I would trust them to fit an Autotech if it was the HPFP they recommended. I have to say that I don't know how APR justify the price of their pump but I do like what I hear about it.
I'm in many ways glad I posted what I did if only to bring out other people's views as well.
P.S. - I have just seen your Reply #40 and had best answer that separately in an effort to help you understand me better and maintain the peace between us. Then hopefully this thread can get back on topic.
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I honestly don't have a problem with you giving you opinion and reasons for your choices, but as Matt alluded to, they are always with an added slant.
Everything you post up is basically "these are my opinions and choices, these are the best without question. Everything else is sh*t, everyone else is wrong"... with an "ETTO" caveat.
What I don't know though is why you do it? Is it to justify the decisions to yourself, or convince others into your way of thinking?
Individual choice is just that and fact is fact - leave the hearsay bullsh*t out of it, we're not in America.
I like you Robin, I respect a lot of what you say and your values, but Christ do you get carried away!!
....Surely everyone's opinions are based on what they believe is best. I share my views why I prefer one product to another - I don't suggest that everything else is sh*t unless I really believe that to be the case. I don't think the Autotech is sh*t - I just think the APR pump is better (for reasons already posted).
I'm not on any mission to convince others but I am here to share my opinions and to learn from others and even modify or change my opinions accordingly. I'm disappointed if you can't see that.
I actually hope to help others by contributing posts here but I always want others not to just listen to me but listen to other views as well and then make up their own minds.
The difference between here and the typical American forums is that here we can disagree and discuss everything calmly (as we all know) but it's accusations of self indulgent diatribes which veer towards the American style. Though across the pond they usually resort to stronger personal insults.
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No, what you’ve done is a self indulgent diatribe into the ins and outs of hearsay.
....I don't take kindly to the "self indulgent diatribe" accusation. If you want continued respect from me you had better afford me some respect irrespective of whether you agree with my views.
It wasn't an accusation or an insult, more a my head in my hands "good grief" moment. I'm sorry.
Ok, I'll re-word it:
"No, what you’ve done is a post un-necessarily padded out with hearsay instead of fact."
I understand your intentions and reasonings behind your posts, but when I look at them from an outsiders point of view I see what I said. Many others have said this too.
Can I suggest you maybe just concentrate on saying why you've chosen something, and leave out any other tuner/product in your attempt to bring balance. If you don't mention the "other" at all, your opinion of them can't be mis-understood.
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Open and honest springs to mind.................... But based on fact.
:scared:
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if you dont like autotech because of bad press once upon a time, why not go for KMD then???
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if you dont like autotech because of bad press once upon a time, why not go for KMD then???
Who does KMD??? I can only find an US supplier.
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No, what you’ve done is a self indulgent diatribe into the ins and outs of hearsay.
....I don't take kindly to the "self indulgent diatribe" accusation. If you want continued respect from me you had better afford me some respect irrespective of whether you agree with my views.
It wasn't an accusation or an insult, more a my head in my hands "good grief" moment. I'm sorry.
Ok, I'll re-word it:
"No, what you’ve done is a post un-necessarily padded out with hearsay instead of fact."
I understand your intentions and reasonings behind your posts, but when I look at them from an outsiders point of view I see what I said. Many others have said this too.
Can I suggest you maybe just concentrate on saying why you've chosen something, and leave out any other tuner/product in your attempt to bring balance. If you don't mention the "other" at all, your opinion of them can't be mis-understood.
....Understood, and thank you for bothering to write. I'll see if I can improve my ways :grouphug:
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Open and honest springs to mind.................... But based on fact.
:scared:
....Being open and honest in expressing my opinion is what got me into trouble on this occasion it seems.
What is 'fact' is something which can vary when posted by experts on the internet - Doubtless myself included sometimes.
:happy2:
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if you dont like autotech because of bad press once upon a time, why not go for KMD then???
Who does KMD??? I can only find an US supplier.
I think they are only a shop rather than a manufacturer.
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^^^^
I always thought that Autotech and KMD were the same product and was KMD originally.
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Open and honest springs to mind.................... But based on fact.
:scared:
....Being open and honest in expressing my opinion is what got me into trouble on this occasion it seems.
What is 'fact' is something which can vary when posted by experts on the internet - Doubtless myself included sometimes.
:happy2:
Off topic,
But fact to me is not what I read on t'internet but broken and poor welds, how the BSH mounts made my car feel after fit, incorrect length exhaust hangers etc, all fact, not hearsay.
As i have said, not sponsored or favour any company, just my factual based engineering observations.
Back on topic...........
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....Understood, and thank you for bothering to write. I'll see if I can improve my ways :grouphug:
I'm by no means perfect, so feedback is always welcome too you know.
From the other one...^^
Fact is something that can be proven without doubt. Opinion if for something that can't - I'm always quite careful when writing something to ensure I mark a statement with which is which.
Nobody, no matter how expert in their field, can demand their opinion is fact without proof.
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Consider this simple question?
If the Autotech pump is circa £300 and the APR circa £700 - does the extensive testing alone warrant the two-fold difference in price?
This is a personal opinion...but I believe APR components are over-priced. Some of this may be down to the APR's desire to develop its "brand", impression of exclusivity and quality.
If I was spending my hard earned money - I would ask myself if the APR product was twice as good as the Autotech one. As far as testing is concerned...the passage of time has proven Autotech's credentials... and I would always go with the tried-and-tested component with the largest user-base.
P.S. I think we all need to go easy on Robin. I can't help feeling he's been given an unduly hard time.
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you do get a complete new pump with the APR item, nobody has really mentioned that, not sayin it justifies the price but it does add up, 300quid for the kit plus fitting then add the price of a brand new pump and it's gettin there
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A new pump is £164 + VAT so about £192 all in
Makes just shy £500.
So they are charging £200 for a 10 min job.
One other thing they do is you can send them your pump but even then they charge circa £550 to put the internals in your pump.
As I said in a previous post I think APR products ( although very good and very well made ) are way overpriced in the UK.
Carl :happy2:
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Autotech’s high volume output fuel pump this reply is factual from VW friend in the USA ,from aututech and VW so to help MK5GolfGTI with there instalation of new pump,i have also bought one from our Groupbuy,i hope this help's
IMPORTANT WARNING
AND PREVENTIVE NOTICE
Autotech’s high volume output fuel pump kit for 2.0T VW and
Audi engine applications, our part #10.127.100k.
This kit is designed to provide up to 50% greater fuel volume than the standard factory
fuel pump. In order to drive this additional fuel volume under the basic laws of physics it
will take up to 50% proportionally more pressure to drive the pump.
The pump is driven by a lobe on the factory intake camshaft which in turn drives the fuel
pump piston through a follower. The pressure exerted on the cam lobe can be up to 50%
greater than the standard application. Both VW and Audi have issued factory “Technical
Service Bulletins†regarding abnormal camshaft wear and failure with the standard stock
factory installed fuel pump. Both companies have issued corrective actions which
include replacing the factory stock camshaft with a new camshaft that has improved
surface hardened fuel pump lobes. The part number for this new camshaft is
06F.109.101B and is available at any VW or Audi dealer.
Before proceeding with the installation of Autotech’s high volume fuel pump kit, it is
imperative that the installer check for wear on the existing camshaft and follower. If
worn, the camshaft must replaced. If not worn, it will be necessary to identify which
camshaft you have in your engine by looking at the part number etched in the cam
between the lobes for the number 2 and number 3 cylinders. The old style (less hardened
cam) is marked with part #06F.109.101A. Those customers who have the old style cam
should strongly consider changing to the new cam part #06F.109.101B.
Regardless of which camshaft you are using, Autotech cannot guarantee that your
camshaft’s fuel pump lobe will not experience increased wear leading to a catastrophic
failure. All customers who choose to use Autotech’s high volume fuel pump must accept
the additional risk of camshaft failure. It is incumbent upon the customer to check for
wear of the camshaft and follower on a regular basis and replace those parts as necessary
as a preventive measure against future failure. To be able to enjoy the benefits of this
part it is necessary for the customer to accept responsibility for wear and tear on other
related parts as mentioned above on their vehicle.
Antotech, therefore will not accept any warranty or merchantability claims for camshaft
and/or follower failures or any damage as a result of those failures for this product. The
customer agrees to accept all risk when using this product. :fighting2:
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Sounds like your typical American "we'll give you the worst case scenario, that could result in injury or death, just so you can't sue us" bunf.
Has anyone had camshaft failure?
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I've just had my cam follower changed. 20k of hard miles with an Autotech pump and the follower was barely worn through it's coating. :happy2:
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I had the cam follower replaced...rev. C. is available now.
Not sure what all this stuff about the camshaft is about though? Are there revised versions of this?
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regarding revision A and B camshafts:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FA_vs_B_cam.jpg&hash=8dae230423fa09c9319b56ff50b87bedb04e6995)
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I had the cam follower replaced...rev. C. is available now.
Not sure what all this stuff about the camshaft is about though? Are there revised versions of this?
How much is the cam follower?
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wow....how did i miss this thread?
marketing spiel...don't you just love them!
:driver:
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Rev. C cam follower was approx. £25 from VW
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i replaced my follower a few moths back, piece of cake and no wear on my old one £20 quid from VW. I tend to agree about APR, nice gear but over priced.
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I don't think the exchange rate helps matters as far as Awesome's concerned as the pricing is pretty much dictated by APR. I know that at certain times APR run offers on their products and often have sales in the US.
I know that APR is one of a very few companies worldwide that has the specific technology (Hitachi) machine required for developing this item.
APR certainly developed much of the Scirrocco tech with VAG Motorsport division and have been on the right side of VAG for race car development which helps their marketing of products and promotes their brand.
I certainly would agree that their big turbo kits are too expensive in the current financial climate but there again you could say that of MTM or Oettinger but the European market is so much different to ours.
I don't know what the other pumps are like but choose the APR one due to the deal I got and the package that was tied up with their fuel pump code initially on stage 1 HPFP code then progressing on to stage 2.
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I know that APR is one of a very few companies worldwide that has the specific technology (Hitachi) machine required for developing this item.
APR certainly developed much of the Scirrocco tech with VAG Motorsport division and have been on the right side of VAG for race car development which helps their marketing of products and promotes their brand.
I certainly would agree that their big turbo kits are too expensive in the current financial climate but there again you could say that of MTM or Oettinger but the European market is so much different to ours.
^^^^ These are the same reasons I would choose the APR HPFP, and also because of JKM's recommendation.
However, regarding the topic's question of "at what point", I simply don't need to. On a K03 turbo with about 255 neddies and Revo2 settings fine tuned to accommodate all my mods, why bother?
Regarding the cam follower, I'm told that you shouldn't expect any wear sufficient to change it unless you are running an aftermarket fuel pump.
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YES you are right.
In this moment I still have the stock pump and I'm doing 340HP with 460NM, just made a dyno today after installing the BSH mounts. It run OK until now and still does.
Of course I think this is it's top limit and since I want to go higher I would need a HPFP......and I'm back at the topics' discussion: which one to choose.
I narrow it down to 2: APR and Autotech version 2 rebuild. APR is 3 times more expensive, I've many ppl telling me the AT is very very OK, I'm reading here...still I'm not 100% convinced...
This is really a tough choice for me because I really do not want to through away 600+ USD - the difference between them.
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As usual with such choices, those who have one product will swear it's the best (unless it's absolute rubbish) and those who have another product will swear theirs is the best. People like to justify to themselves the choices they have made.
Summing up, the Autotech now (didn't used to be) appears to be absolutely fine, and the APR always has been top notch but comes at a huge financial cost.
Modding is a very slippery slope!
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As usual with such choices, those who have one product will swear it's the best (unless it's absolute rubbish) and those who have another product will swear theirs is the best. People like to justify to themselves the choices they have made.
Summing up, the Autotech now (didn't used to be) appears to be absolutely fine, and the APR always has been top notch but comes at a huge financial cost.
Modding is a very slippery slope!
I think Awesome were doing some deals on APR pumps a short time ago.