Post by: slix on October 15, 2016, 06:07:29 pm
Which scenario would have the car accelerate faster?
Traction control on, limiting wheel spin and cutting power and not spinning any away...
Or
Traction control off... not letting the car interfere with any of the power and getting some wheel spin here and there...
I know in the wet the first would probably be better but what do you guys think? I have a mapped ed30 if this helps.
Post by: AJP on October 15, 2016, 06:20:40 pm
Usually if I plant it in 2nd at around 2.5k it just wheelhops heavily and then the traction control kicks in, power is cut, accompanied by a big 'brraapppp' from the exhaust. Going nowhere fast.
With traction off, same scenario, again I got a bit of wheel hop (maybe to a lesser extent) then the wheels literally span, up to the limiter. Again, slow progress, but maybe not as bad.
I'd imagine with a bit of practice I could temper the throttle a bit so the tyres bite rather than spin. Certainly with uprated engine mounts and an anti lift kit it'd be easier.
Once I'm in 3rd it'll bite. I'm on MPSS and they do a good job generally. I'm considering some wide wings and 245/255 tyres once I go k04. It's kind of pointless having all that torque if you can only use it after 40mph or so.
Post by: AJP on October 15, 2016, 06:32:28 pm
Post by: fab5freddy on October 15, 2016, 06:35:14 pm
I'd imagine with a bit of practice I could temper the throttle a bit so the tyres bite rather than spin.
This is what it's all about with FWD, there's no mashing the pedal on these.
I always turn the traction control off every time i go any where, much easier to control than the pesky ABS cutting in imo.
Post by: AJP on October 15, 2016, 07:44:37 pm
Yeah it's tricky getting the balance right. I rarely do the old 'traffic light Grand Prix' but the other day I was sat at the lights, two lanes straight on (60 limit by the way folks) and a white new-ish looking BMW pulls alongside, creeping, so I knew he wanted the road. Gave it my best and he got me, just. But I reckon I got down about 40% of the power I've got at best, it was terrible. Wheelhop, traction control kicking in, just a mess of an attempt really. The BMW had 435d and xdrive badges on the back it turned out, so I won't lose sleep. Although I bet he wasn't even tryingI'd imagine with a bit of practice I could temper the throttle a bit so the tyres bite rather than spin.
This is what it's all about with FWD, there's no mashing the pedal on these.
I always turn the traction control off every time i go any where, much easier to control than the pesky ABS cutting in imo.
Post by: fab5freddy on October 15, 2016, 07:52:49 pm
Wheel hop is the biggest problem imo, one of the best mods i have done is uprated engine mounts, no wheel hop what so ever now, of course you have to balance off the NVH, but really isn't an issue vs results, you soon don't even notice it and think what was i ever concerned about
Post by: AJP on October 15, 2016, 08:14:25 pm
I feel your pain, i've done it so many times myself, rush of blood and it all goes out the window :sad1:Yes I've got the mounts high up on the to-do list, just haven't researched it much yet. There are quite a few options. I don't mind a bit of extra noise as long as it doesn't translate as more interior trim rattles. I've got enough of those!
Wheel hop is the biggest problem imo, one of the best mods i have done is uprated engine mounts, no wheel hop what so ever now, of course you have to balance off the NVH, but really isn't an issue vs results, you soon don't even notice it and think what was i ever concerned about
Post by: Dan_FR on October 15, 2016, 08:26:06 pm
Post by: AJP on October 15, 2016, 08:40:16 pm
The issue with the TCS is if you do trigger it, it has a hissy fit for a good half second or so and kills all power. For that reason alone I turn it off if I ever want to get off the line quickly. I can do a much better job with my right foot than the standard TCS does....This is true. Although admittedly, I need some practice with traction off. I reckon I'd get a good launch if I slipped the clutch but I'm not keen on the idea. I'd bloody love AWD.
Post by: grey golfster on October 15, 2016, 08:59:51 pm
Does the Golf traction control cut power (to both wheels!) By modulating, or by cutting the "throttle" completely?
And/or, does the system use ABS to brake an individual wheel that has lost traction, when pulling in this scenario?
Post by: Dan_FR on October 15, 2016, 10:16:32 pm
Mk6 Golf and newer has the XDS system which will use ABS to brake a wheel that has lost traction to mimic that off a limited slip diff..... No such thing on the Mk5.
R-Tech maps rewrite the behaviour of the TCS and it actually acts as a traction control, modulating power as needed to become beneficial.
Post by: slix on October 15, 2016, 11:49:15 pm
The TCS reaction depends on the amount and the rate of slip. Mild interference can be ignition retard which sounds awesome. Full intervention kills power and ceases acceleration entirely for a good half second all more until wheelspin (and all acceleration) has stopped. Any interference affects both driven wheels
Mk6 Golf and newer has the XDS system which will use ABS to brake a wheel that has lost traction to mimic that off a limited slip diff..... No such thing on the Mk5.
R-Tech maps rewrite the behaviour of the TCS and it actually acts as a traction control, modulating power as needed to become beneficial.
I'm pretty sure when rtech did my map they mentioned this. So you think I'd be better leaving it on in that case?
On a dry day the car feels much quicker with it off may I add.
Post by: Namsgti on October 16, 2016, 12:26:34 pm
Post by: AJP on October 16, 2016, 01:39:42 pm
I'm on an R-Tech map and it still cuts in quite keenly, but it's hard to tell whether it's less obtrusive than the standard map - arguably it'd cut in less with standard torque levels anyway. I think traction control (however well tweaked) can only do so much once you're past 300lbft.The TCS reaction depends on the amount and the rate of slip. Mild interference can be ignition retard which sounds awesome. Full intervention kills power and ceases acceleration entirely for a good half second all more until wheelspin (and all acceleration) has stopped. Any interference affects both driven wheels
Mk6 Golf and newer has the XDS system which will use ABS to brake a wheel that has lost traction to mimic that off a limited slip diff..... No such thing on the Mk5.
R-Tech maps rewrite the behaviour of the TCS and it actually acts as a traction control, modulating power as needed to become beneficial.
I'm pretty sure when rtech did my map they mentioned this. So you think I'd be better leaving it on in that case?
On a dry day the car feels much quicker with it off may I add.
We could throw a load of money into wide track with 245/255s, lsd, coilovers, anti lift kit etc, but still might struggle at times and also introduce some trade-offs.
I saw Alex mention in another thread he's doing AWD conversions. I can only imagine we're talking a good few grand. But probably a much better result than wide tyres etc on fwd. Either option screams money pit though.
Post by: rich83 on October 16, 2016, 01:44:25 pm
Post by: slix on October 16, 2016, 04:10:20 pm
Post by: Dan_FR on October 16, 2016, 06:08:36 pm
I turn it off to get off the line quickly, otherwise for road use it stays on....
Post by: Adamt5386 on October 16, 2016, 07:11:04 pm
Post by: AJP on October 16, 2016, 07:31:59 pm
no traction control and a good set of tyres lolI'm on MPSS and it's still a struggle! F*cking brilliant in the corners though.
Post by: pudding on October 17, 2016, 11:28:01 am
Post by: Dan_FR on October 17, 2016, 11:46:35 am
Post by: flashp on October 17, 2016, 12:00:36 pm
I would like a Syvecs ECU one day though...a very refined way to control power/torque delivery.
Post by: ducman77 on October 17, 2016, 12:14:56 pm
I always turn the traction control off every time i go any where, much easier to control than the pesky ABS cutting in imo.
Me too. Hardly ever have it on :happy2:
In the wet I don't even bother trying to participate in the green light grand prix's anymore as it's always a total mess :ashamed:
In the dry i'll give it a good go though :happy2:
I have about a 50-50 score so far between....
1) Great take off - virtually no wheelspin - other car thoroughly beaten - shocked bystanders cheering for the legendary Mk5 GTI :rolleye:
And....
2) No movement - clouds of smoke - parts of car falling off secondary to extreme wheel hop - shocked bystanders frowning, wagging their fingers and generally saying "look at that absolute twat" :ashamed: :ashamed:
Post by: Adamt5386 on October 17, 2016, 02:11:54 pm
no traction control and a good set of tyres lolI'm on MPSS and it's still a struggle! F*cking brilliant in the corners though.
haha I've got pirelli p zero and they stick well. although only running around 240 bhp
Post by: AJP on October 17, 2016, 02:59:09 pm
Yep, stage 1 was actually ok (around 300lbft). Stage 2 is a bit trickier.no traction control and a good set of tyres lolI'm on MPSS and it's still a struggle! F*cking brilliant in the corners though.
haha I've got pirelli p zero and they stick well. although only running around 240 bhp
Post by: Shoduchi on October 17, 2016, 05:58:02 pm
Yeah, it's a lot trickier but it all depends on our right foot. Pointless to step too much on the gas with damp roads at lower speeds.Yep, stage 1 was actually ok (around 300lbft). Stage 2 is a bit trickier.no traction control and a good set of tyres lolI'm on MPSS and it's still a struggle! F*cking brilliant in the corners though.
haha I've got pirelli p zero and they stick well. although only running around 240 bhp
Post by: ROH ECHT on October 17, 2016, 07:41:42 pm
One day with mine at the track for viewing unimpressive launches...
On the road coarse...probably best to evaluate your driving skills while remaining unbiased. Leave the ESP on if you think you might go beyond the limits...but if you know its limits on the coarse, given all current conditions and road knowledge, go on and take ESP off. I drive with ESP off and remain in control on public roads. Sometimes I spin, but it's only because I want to. I just never have to experience the brutality of the front brakes trying to rip off the front end with ESP off. I do have all three up-rated mounts and W.A.L.K., but still if ESP is on you get a brutal response.
Post by: ROH ECHT on October 17, 2016, 09:44:19 pm
Post by: Adamt5386 on October 17, 2016, 09:46:51 pm
ahh I see. I'm hoping to sort out my stage 2 very soon so I will experience that soon I'm sure. just need to work out what exhaust downpipe to go with and map!Yep, stage 1 was actually ok (around 300lbft). Stage 2 is a bit trickier.no traction control and a good set of tyres lolI'm on MPSS and it's still a struggle! F*cking brilliant in the corners though.
haha I've got pirelli p zero and they stick well. although only running around 240 bhp
Post by: AJP on October 17, 2016, 10:09:17 pm
I went for a full Powervalve with sport cat and it's bloody brilliant. Looks good, sounds insane, and gives big power gains across the rev range, especially after the Stage 2 R-Tech map. Not cheap, but I'm really glad I did it.ahh I see. I'm hoping to sort out my stage 2 very soon so I will experience that soon I'm sure. just need to work out what exhaust downpipe to go with and map!Yep, stage 1 was actually ok (around 300lbft). Stage 2 is a bit trickier.no traction control and a good set of tyres lolI'm on MPSS and it's still a struggle! F*cking brilliant in the corners though.
haha I've got pirelli p zero and they stick well. although only running around 240 bhp
Post by: Adamt5386 on October 17, 2016, 10:41:51 pm
I actually emailed r-tech earlier asking about state 2 map info as I've heard nothing but good things. although I hear I could do with s3 intercooler too? I've got a milltek cat back at the moment so with that I need downpipe and would rather sports cat than decat. and of course the diverter valve (won't even start mentioning that as I hear that's a sore subject on these pages) haha then hopefully ready to go!I went for a full Powervalve with sport cat and it's bloody brilliant. Looks good, sounds insane, and gives big power gains across the rev range, especially after the Stage 2 R-Tech map. Not cheap, but I'm really glad I did it.ahh I see. I'm hoping to sort out my stage 2 very soon so I will experience that soon I'm sure. just need to work out what exhaust downpipe to go with and map!Yep, stage 1 was actually ok (around 300lbft). Stage 2 is a bit trickier.no traction control and a good set of tyres lolI'm on MPSS and it's still a struggle! F*cking brilliant in the corners though.
haha I've got pirelli p zero and they stick well. although only running around 240 bhp
Post by: AJP on October 18, 2016, 08:45:03 am
Maybe if you're on a 2+ map with the turbo maxed out you'll generate a bit more heat. But on Stage 2, and in my circumstances, I'm doing fine.
Just get a revision G dv or GFB DV+. Sorted.
Post by: pudding on October 18, 2016, 09:34:11 am
Yes. Well mine is on the Leon anyway
Mine cuts the power (abruptly) when TC is off and when going round corners, so it still monitors steering angle. I don't drive like that normally, I was just testing it!
Post by: Shoduchi on October 18, 2016, 09:46:41 am
APR shared a coding tweak to defeat the TC completely when off with VCDS but it wasn't accepted by my ABS pump. Not sure if it was just for more recent models of ABS pumps... :sad1:Yes. Well mine is on the Leon anyway
Mine cuts the power (abruptly) when TC is off and when going round corners, so it still monitors steering angle. I don't drive like that normally, I was just testing it!
Post by: pudding on October 18, 2016, 11:25:41 am
APR shared a coding tweak to defeat the TC completely when off with VCDS but it wasn't accepted by my ABS pump. Not sure if it was just for more recent models of ABS pumps... :sad1:Yes. Well mine is on the Leon anyway
Mine cuts the power (abruptly) when TC is off and when going round corners, so it still monitors steering angle. I don't drive like that normally, I was just testing it!
I can't find any definitive information, other than on 09 cars it's not defeatable at all, but on 06-07s you can disconnect the 'accelerometer module' or something! Some folk say it's under the seat, some say it's under the cover at the passenger side of the dashboard!
Post by: Adamt5386 on October 18, 2016, 11:43:26 am
The intercooler debate is probably more of a sore point. Some say a big upgrade is essential, some reckon the standard cooler is good for a k04 conversion with 2+ bits. I personally believe it's somewhere in between. I'm on the standard one and apart from on the odd hot day where I probably convince myself otherwise, it seems to be quite consistent. I don't do any track driving, and I don't sit in much traffic.oh I see haha sorry about that! I thought my standard intercooler would be ok for now to be honest. it's only a weekend car for me and not planning on tracking it anyway soon. GFB DV+ is what I have been looking at anyway so will go for that. heard nothing but good things. only need to decide downpipe for my cat back milltek. decat 100 cell or 200 cell.
Maybe if you're on a 2+ map with the turbo maxed out you'll generate a bit more heat. But on Stage 2, and in my circumstances, I'm doing fine.
Just get a revision G dv or GFB DV+. Sorted.
Post by: AJP on October 18, 2016, 01:03:13 pm
Post by: ducman77 on October 18, 2016, 03:20:30 pm
decat, 100 cell or 200 cell.
I had a decat on mine; The sound was glorious! If anything it was a bit too loud and overbearing. But the smell was awful. I couldn't drive with my windows down, so it had to go.
I've a 3in 200Cell sports cat from Magna Flow fitted at the minute and i'm delighted with it!
No fumy smell at all. And hardly any drop in power from the Decat. It even passed the NCT (Irish MOT) emissions test!
Post by: Adamt5386 on October 18, 2016, 08:20:52 pm
ok that's great I will look into that then. I know decat is the cheaper option but I was just thinking about emissions tbh didn't even think about smell. think 200 cell is the way I would probably go. thanks for all your repliesdecat, 100 cell or 200 cell.
I had a decat on mine; The sound was glorious! If anything it was a bit too loud and overbearing. But the smell was awful. I couldn't drive with my windows down, so it had to go.
I've a 3in 200Cell sports cat from Magna Flow fitted at the minute and i'm delighted with it!
No fumy smell at all. And hardly any drop in power from the Decat. It even passed the NCT (Irish MOT) emissions test!
Post by: ducman77 on October 18, 2016, 09:57:05 pm
Here's a video to show...
1) Standard VW cat; which we initially welded 3in flanges onto, but it robbed too much power going from 3in to 2in and...
2) 3in high flow cat which we finally settled on...
3) Decat ... which was nuts, but too hard to live with in the real world...
Post by: ROH ECHT on October 19, 2016, 04:22:30 am
https://www.youtube.com/user/zoomdis?feature=mhum
Post by: Adamt5386 on October 19, 2016, 11:43:15 am
^^ The magnaflow is cracking value at £100. Total cost including the cat itself and Welding 3in flanges onto it, and fitting it to the car was £200! For the fact that you're getting a clean smelling and emissions compliant car it's a no brainer!!oh that's a great price for a cat downpipe! do you know where I can purchase it?? I will have a look through all the videos later. Can't wait to get started on my stage 2!
Here's a video to show...
1) Standard VW cat; which we initially welded 3in flanges onto, but it robbed too much power going from 3in to 2in and...
2) 3in high flow cat which we finally settled on...
3) Decat ... which was nuts, but too hard to live with in the real world...
Post by: ducman77 on October 19, 2016, 04:29:06 pm
Did you notice any smelly fumes from the exhaust when you got rid of your cat?
Post by: ducman77 on October 19, 2016, 07:40:33 pm
^^ The magnaflow is cracking value at £100. Total cost including the cat itself and Welding 3in flanges onto it, and fitting it to the car was £200! For the fact that you're getting a clean smelling and emissions compliant car it's a no brainer!!oh that's a great price for a cat downpipe! do you know where I can purchase it?? I will have a look through all the videos later. Can't wait to get started on my stage 2!
Here's a video to show...
1) Standard VW cat; which we initially welded 3in flanges onto, but it robbed too much power going from 3in to 2in and...
2) 3in high flow cat which we finally settled on...
3) Decat ... which was nuts, but too hard to live with in the real world...
Here you go buddy.....
It's only the cat. Your exhaust fabricator would have to weld it into your system. Mine is after the downpipe on the straight section that runs to the back of the car.
Only £70 now....
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-76mm-200-Cell-CPSI-4-Round-Magnaflow-High-Performance-High-Flow-Sports-Cat-/181330219567?nav=SEARCH
Post by: Adamt5386 on October 19, 2016, 09:50:13 pm
Post by: ducman77 on October 19, 2016, 10:29:22 pm
No, no need to purchase a Decat.
The fabricator would just fit the high flow cat somewhere along your system by welding 3in flanges to either end of it.
Bread and butter stuff for a decent fabricator.
Some of the bigger companies i.e. Millett, BCS etc. Will sell you a downpipe with a 200 Cel cat already fitted, so that might be even easier?
Post by: Adamt5386 on October 19, 2016, 10:55:59 pm
Post by: ROH ECHT on October 20, 2016, 08:13:38 pm
Car sounds great in the video ROH :happy2:No...well?, when I run race fuel I do. But it's a good smelly :smiley:
Did you notice any smelly fumes from the exhaust when you got rid of your cat?
When or if you get the O2 fault codes...I installed an angled O2 spacer, post cat position, similar to this one: https://www.google.com/search?q=angled+o2+spacer&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=angled+o2+spacer&tbs=vw:l,ss:9&tbm=shop&start=0&spd=8490139264442685798
Aimed forward and up a bit...no codes since doing so :happy2:
http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/rohecht/media/dumb%20forum%20stuff/14012082_1096567480433724_325737411_n.jpg.html
Post by: Adamt5386 on October 24, 2016, 01:15:57 pm
Post by: slix on October 24, 2016, 02:17:19 pm
I've contacted a few exhaust fabricators and one company (pp tuning) will sell me a 200 cell and downpipe for £250 or 100 cell and down pipe for £310. I know 100 cell would obviously be better but seems they are classed as a race cat are they mot passable? anyone know if there is a big difference between the two?
If the diameter of the pipe is the same it's just the cell count per square inch. 200 vs 100. I would stick with 200 personally. Will still pass mot and not be on the limit like a 100 will be.
Post by: Adamt5386 on October 24, 2016, 08:16:53 pm
Post by: slix on October 24, 2016, 10:06:12 pm
Post by: Adamt5386 on October 25, 2016, 08:20:05 pm
Post by: slix on October 25, 2016, 11:22:42 pm
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390464426028
Post by: Adamt5386 on October 25, 2016, 11:48:49 pm
Post by: pudding on October 26, 2016, 09:49:58 am
With all this recent talk of downpipes with sport cats throwing the CEL, I thought I'd take my car to a VW dealer for it's MOT, because I knew they'd be a lot stricter on the emissions than Bob's back street bring it round the back fella type place.
To the dealer's credit, they took the car out and drove it hard to get the cat as hot as possible and even then, it just about managed the pass limit of 0.20. A standard car would be in the region of 0 - 0.01.
Just thought I'd through that out there because some of these sport cats are pure junk in terms of emissions, which, if you can't be bothered to switch the DP over every year and just want to throw the car into any old MOT station, it can be an issue.
Post by: Shoduchi on October 26, 2016, 12:01:14 pm
Post by: pudding on October 26, 2016, 12:12:16 pm
APR = Borderline!
Post by: AJP on October 26, 2016, 12:26:22 pm
Post by: Shoduchi on October 26, 2016, 12:28:10 pm
Post by: pudding on October 26, 2016, 02:00:52 pm
Post by: AJP on October 26, 2016, 05:07:42 pm
I might cut the crappy APR cat off and put a better one on there, maybe a BCS one if the emissions are good.Here you go mate, emissions with the Powervalve 200 cell. Can't remember if that was on Stage 1 or Stage 2 R-Tech, if that matters.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161026%2Fc24e6a25c1d41fb5dfad71faececf4da.jpg&hash=f9bd0685d95b353e4178bfb1f30e211170732f76)
Post by: Adamt5386 on October 28, 2016, 10:11:07 pm
Post by: ducman77 on October 28, 2016, 10:31:32 pm
Bsc sports cat sounds like the way to go. from what you guys have said and from the conversation I had with a guy from there. Really good information he gave me and such faith in his product. Definitely want to go down that route. Plus gfb dv+ autotech hpfp and stage2+map. Should be all done for a while then lol
Dude, with the BCS downpipe and cat, DV+, Autotech and mapping the car will be an absolute flyer :happy2:
Good times :smiley: Enjoy :happy2:
Post by: 99hagued on October 28, 2016, 10:41:23 pm
I might cut the crappy APR cat off and put a better one on there, maybe a BCS one if the emissions are good.Here you go mate, emissions with the Powervalve 200 cell. Can't remember if that was on Stage 1 or Stage 2 R-Tech, if that matters.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161026%2Fc24e6a25c1d41fb5dfad71faececf4da.jpg&hash=f9bd0685d95b353e4178bfb1f30e211170732f76)
Wow that's clean for a sports cat, when I test cars with sports cats they are usually borderline pass/fail
Post by: Adamt5386 on October 30, 2016, 07:32:55 pm
I'm hoping so man. Really looking forward to getting it sorted! Probably going to have to wait until new year but will hopefully be worth the waitBsc sports cat sounds like the way to go. from what you guys have said and from the conversation I had with a guy from there. Really good information he gave me and such faith in his product. Definitely want to go down that route. Plus gfb dv+ autotech hpfp and stage2+map. Should be all done for a while then lol
Dude, with the BCS downpipe and cat, DV+, Autotech and mapping the car will be an absolute flyer :happy2:
Good times :smiley: Enjoy :happy2:
Post by: Johnsy on October 30, 2016, 07:44:43 pm
Yes. Well mine is on the Leon anyway
Iv got the later LCR with the useless XDS, on or off the car still cuts the power in the corners,and it definetly doesn't like left foot trail braking. An absolute buzz kill on a recent trackday
Post by: pudding on October 31, 2016, 10:15:28 am
I might cut the crappy APR cat off and put a better one on there, maybe a BCS one if the emissions are good.Here you go mate, emissions with the Powervalve 200 cell. Can't remember if that was on Stage 1 or Stage 2 R-Tech, if that matters.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161026%2Fc24e6a25c1d41fb5dfad71faececf4da.jpg&hash=f9bd0685d95b353e4178bfb1f30e211170732f76)
That is loads better! Their website is down at the moment so can't check if they sell the cat on it's own.