Post by: Benadams161 on December 29, 2016, 09:29:14 am
I'm looking to get a stage 1 remap for my mk5 gti, and with quite a few out there I'm struggling to decided which one to go for.
Does anyone have any recommendations/advice on which one is best?
Thanks!
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Post by: slix on December 29, 2016, 11:55:11 am
Custom R-Tech will probably come out as most recommended.
Post by: flashp on January 01, 2017, 12:39:19 pm
Post by: bonelorry on January 02, 2017, 03:33:08 pm
Post by: RetroRaz on January 02, 2017, 04:43:36 pm
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Post by: Saintsteve on January 02, 2017, 06:21:59 pm
Post by: Duffmeister on January 02, 2017, 06:37:42 pm
Post by: RetroRaz on January 02, 2017, 06:58:17 pm
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Post by: rashg60 on January 02, 2017, 09:21:55 pm
I'm also on a R-Tech Stage 2 remap and very happy with it.
Post by: patpong_pete on January 03, 2017, 01:08:05 pm
Rtech, going tomorrow to get mine done. Can't wait
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any update raz on remap ?
good luck should make 255-260 bhp
Post by: RetroRaz on January 03, 2017, 02:42:37 pm
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Post by: Stig_gti on January 03, 2017, 03:04:39 pm
One of the best mods for the cars.
Start saving for stage 2 now.
Post by: white91 on January 03, 2017, 03:30:35 pm
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Post by: Pesky jones on January 03, 2017, 03:32:57 pm
Post by: pudding on January 03, 2017, 04:07:59 pm
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on January 05, 2017, 08:11:54 pm
- traction control mapping for free
- maps around K04 turbo surge point to stop stupid & annoying compresser surge
- free health check prior to tuning
- free tuning advice
- 5 switchable boost maps for free
- lifetime customer care for free
- whatever delivery you want, smooth, aggressive, flat. . :grin: just name it.
- set up uniquely to your car on a Dyno over 2-3hrs, rather than some bloke with a laptop who knows naff all except what the brand tells him (heard this many times on this forum)
Finally: cheaper than the competition due to less overheads :happy2: just no bullsh1t honest tuning
Post by: fazi123 on January 05, 2017, 08:37:10 pm
I must ask, I have a MK5 DSG GTI, but how do I go about this "5 Map switching" thing?
Thanks in advance,
Fazi
Post by: white91 on January 05, 2017, 08:54:21 pm
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Post by: AJP on January 05, 2017, 09:03:57 pm
Car pulls like a train now, makes all sorts of pops and bangs. Kind of like a rally car. I've got some warning lights on the dash now, but he said it's normal, just like the smoke and the whistling noise. He says that all remaps are the same as the file he's got on his laptop from his mate that works in F1, and you're just paying for the name by going to a big flashy tuner. Who am I to argue? Best 80 quid I've spent.
Only downside is I can't get hold of him to do a Stage 2 map. He must just be on holiday or something.
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on January 05, 2017, 09:51:54 pm
The switchable maps are only done to manual cars to preserve the clutch. Surprisingly I was never asked what sort of map I wanted, they just did it
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They do DSG too - my brother-in-law had it on his 6R :happy2:
Sensible for guys who don't trust their other half with lots of power, or FWD in winter :laugh:
Post by: JackL15 on January 05, 2017, 10:33:22 pm
Post by: RetroRaz on January 06, 2017, 10:01:25 am
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Post by: MIJ_JAGGER on January 06, 2017, 10:09:51 am
Megapower Maps. Swear by them. Bloke named Darren does it all with a laptop, only takes about 15 minutes, and he insists on coming to you to do the live remapping. How about that for a mobile service. He only works weekends though, and only takes cash.Lol
Car pulls like a train now, makes all sorts of pops and bangs. Kind of like a rally car. I've got some warning lights on the dash now, but he said it's normal, just like the smoke and the whistling noise. He says that all remaps are the same as the file he's got on his laptop from his mate that works in F1, and you're just paying for the name by going to a big flashy tuner. Who am I to argue? Best 80 quid I've spent.
Only downside is I can't get hold of him to do a Stage 2 map. He must just be on holiday or something.
Tenner more I'm sure he can map it to fly
Post by: Madone on January 07, 2017, 09:11:15 am
This whole thing about R-tech being custom and tailored to your car is great PR for them, but such a urban myth. You get about 3 hours on the dyno (they do 3 cars a day), which essentially entails them loading their 'generic map' then tweaking it to squeeze your car, not for drivability, but for max power. If you watch them tune there is zero part throttle tuning, you just get a series of full throttle runs to the limiter, that's not custom (I think I counted 5 runs total for my car) that's extracting every ounce from your car before the hardware you have can't do any more. Most of that 3 hours is taken with loading changes into the ecu.
They are priced well and know their stuff but to say they are custom maps is only partly true at best. I have had both RTech, revo, Superchips and APR maps, I know APR and Revo spend huge amounts of time and money on their maps for feel and drive ability, part and full throttle. For me revo was the best feeling map. As pudding said, too many people chase headline numbers.
Horses for courses, loads of people like rtech and they know their stuff, but not sure half of the people even try anything else as they just get told to 'go to rtech' ! No one can tune the TFSI. Revo drove better in my humble opinion :laugh:
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on January 07, 2017, 12:01:17 pm
R-tech don't do switchable on stage 2+, I didn't get it or even offered it, I asked and was told they don't do it.
100% do, but may only be on ECUs which accept it. My bro-in-law had it on his 2+ DSG 6R.
This whole thing about R-tech being custom and tailored to your car is great PR for them, but such a urban myth. You get about 3 hours on the dyno (they do 3 cars a day), which essentially entails them loading their 'generic map' then tweaking it to squeeze your car, not for drivability, but for max power. If you watch them tune there is zero part throttle tuning, you just get a series of full throttle runs to the limiter, that's not custom (I think I counted 5 runs total for my car) that's extracting every ounce from your car before the hardware you have can't do any more. Most of that 3 hours is taken with loading changes into the ecu.
the base map has had hours of R&D for the part-throttle and load-maps, there is no need to tweak them - that would take forever on each individual load & throttle position. Never hear of anyone complain about part-throttle drivability, as it's perfect :happy2: The custom element of a map is to tailor the map to the specific mods, the difference between a cat back and just a DP do not make any difference at part-throttle
They are priced well and know their stuff but to say they are custom maps is only partly true at best. I have had both RTech, revo, Superchips and APR maps, I know APR and Revo spend huge amounts of time and money on their maps for feel and drive ability, part and full throttle. For me revo was the best feeling map. As pudding said, too many people chase headline numbers.
R-Tech typically aim for the best results which are possible with the hardware, as that's what 99% of people want. If you say, cap torque and X xxlb/ft (which people do for clutches) then they do it
Horses for courses, loads of people like rtech and they know their stuff, but not sure half of the people even try anything else as they just get told to 'go to rtech' ! No one can tune the TFSI. Revo drove better in my humble opinion :laugh:
Revo K04 map (I've driven) is mighty aggressive (which is fun), but the map boosts straight through the K04 surge point (making cho-cho noise with intake) which to me smacks of poor development as others (APR IIRC) and R-Tech map round it and offer a smoother drive. With any custom map, you get in what you get out. If you ask for xx you get xx, you get out of a custom map, with whatever you put in don't ask. . . Don't get.
R-Tech also give you a load of extras for free which are either not available with other maps, or are chargeable.
Post by: Madone on January 07, 2017, 01:37:30 pm
R-tech don't do switchable on stage 2+, I didn't get it or even offered it, I asked and was told they don't do it.
100% do, but may only be on ECUs which accept it. My bro-in-law had it on his 2+ DSG 6R.
This whole thing about R-tech being custom and tailored to your car is great PR for them, but such a urban myth. You get about 3 hours on the dyno (they do 3 cars a day), which essentially entails them loading their 'generic map' then tweaking it to squeeze your car, not for drivability, but for max power. If you watch them tune there is zero part throttle tuning, you just get a series of full throttle runs to the limiter, that's not custom (I think I counted 5 runs total for my car) that's extracting every ounce from your car before the hardware you have can't do any more. Most of that 3 hours is taken with loading changes into the ecu.
the base map has had hours of R&D for the part-throttle and load-maps, there is no need to tweak them - that would take forever on each individual load & throttle position. Never hear of anyone complain about part-throttle drivability, as it's perfect :happy2: The custom element of a map is to tailor the map to the specific mods, the difference between a cat back and just a DP do not make any difference at part-throttle
They are priced well and know their stuff but to say they are custom maps is only partly true at best. I have had both RTech, revo, Superchips and APR maps, I know APR and Revo spend huge amounts of time and money on their maps for feel and drive ability, part and full throttle. For me revo was the best feeling map. As pudding said, too many people chase headline numbers.
R-Tech typically aim for the best results which are possible with the hardware, as that's what 99% of people want. If you say, cap torque and X xxlb/ft (which people do for clutches) then they do it
Horses for courses, loads of people like rtech and they know their stuff, but not sure half of the people even try anything else as they just get told to 'go to rtech' ! No one can tune the TFSI. Revo drove better in my humble opinion :laugh:
Revo K04 map (I've driven) is mighty aggressive (which is fun), but the map boosts straight through the K04 surge point (making cho-cho noise with intake) which to me smacks of poor development as others (APR IIRC) and R-Tech map round it and offer a smoother drive. With any custom map, you get in what you get out. If you ask for xx you get xx, you get out of a custom map, with whatever you put in don't ask. . . Don't get.
R-Tech also give you a load of extras for free which are either not available with other maps, or are chargeable.
the base map has had hours of R&D for the part-throttle and load-maps, there is no need to tweak them - that would take forever on each individual load & throttle position. Never hear of anyone complain about part-throttle drivability, as it's perfect :happy2: The custom element of a map is to tailor the map to the specific mods, the difference between a cat back and just a DP do not make any difference at part-throttle
not sure why the only bit that needs and is custom is the tailoring of hardware mods for max power and WOT, surely different mods will have different impact on areas other than full throttle and max power ?. It can't be that a generic map works, as you put it, perfectly for all ALL mods in every area apart from full throttle ?, how does that work ?. :smiley:
for example, the runner flaps are for low end torque (and are often removed), different intakes give different part throttle characteristics ?
Post by: pudding on January 07, 2017, 03:32:47 pm
For me revo was the best feeling map. As pudding said, too many people chase headline numbers.
+1
I understand what goes into mapping but Revo have drivability totally nailed. And the fact their tunes make 10-20hp less than everyone elses says a lot really. They respect the factory component protection routines. Other tuners ignore it and spin the sh*t out of the turbo to make everyone on Facebook happy.
Don't get me wrong, I respect R-Tech. They know their onions with tuning but Revo just feels the best on a day to day basis as you say.
Post by: bonelorry on January 07, 2017, 04:41:07 pm
I actually came away with 20BHP Less than what I went in with but with a Map that was much safer, Also came away with a Map that offered far more drive-ability! Partial Throttle has improved greatly. Very happy indeed and today was my 4th visit to R-Tech on 4 different cars.
I appreciate the market for other tuners and there needs to be variety as different people like different things and I wont knock other maps just because they are not to my taste, I have driven TFSI's with other brands of Software fitted and for me ever since taking my first Golf Edition 30 to R-Tech and been very impressed with the results I have remained loyal to them ever since.
After my car was road tested and further logging was done the Map was then altered a couple of times to get around the K04 Surge Point.
I drove home feeling very valued and that I had received excellent service, Also that I was appreciated as a customer and what I wanted was listened to and reflected in the end result.
Post by: pudding on January 07, 2017, 04:50:38 pm
But that's where Revo score in my experience. There isn't any of that. It just gets on with it and works like the factory map, only faster. Mine didn't surge with Revo.
So long as you don't get the linear throttle map, then it should feel factory responsive off boost. The part throttle stuff tunes itself. Injector on time is proportional to MAF flow and messing with the timing is not generally a good idea for safety margin reasons. The ECU does half the work for the tuners out of the box. It's the WOT conditions they 'custom' tune.
Post by: bonelorry on January 07, 2017, 04:58:49 pm
So long as you don't get the linear throttle map, then it should feel factory responsive off boost.
I opted not to go for the Linear Pedal Map :happy2:
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on January 07, 2017, 05:41:28 pm
Just to add my 2 penneth, I went with my car today to R-Tech and found that it already had a Remap fitted of an unknown origin.
I actually came away with 20BHP Less than what I went in with but with a Map that was much safer, Also came away with a Map that offered far more drive-ability! Partial Throttle has improved greatly. Very happy indeed and today was my 4th visit to R-Tech on 4 different cars.
I appreciate the market for other tuners and there needs to be variety as different people like different things and I wont knock other maps just because they are not to my taste, I have driven TFSI's with other brands of Software fitted and for me ever since taking my first Golf Edition 30 to R-Tech and been very impressed with the results I have remained loyal to them ever since.
After my car was road tested and further logging was done the Map was then altered a couple of times to get around the K04 Surge Point.
I drove home feeling very valued and that I had received excellent service, Also that I was appreciated as a customer and what I wanted was listened to and reflected in the end result.
^THIS.
R-Tech are all about delivering what the customer wants, and shouldn't be seen to be pushing the boundaries of safety & component limits - they aren't a 'one trick pony' that can only do balls out power, unfortunately 99% of people want that, and so r-tech gets the reputation of pushing the boundaries of what's safe, which isn't ever the case. Bonelorry's post above reinforces this point - ask for what you want, and ye shall get :drinking:
R-Tech typically make the same power as others using less boost, and going linear (their preferred approach) is less stressful than the aggressive torque delivery of Revo & superchips.
Their TTE420 maps are almost always de-tuned from the maximum headline figures to something which is more drivable, and less stressful on the engines components - Niki is very conscious of damaging engines, and will not map anything in which has high potential to cause damage, unless the owner is willing to accept the risk (which is made very clear).
Post by: Saintsteve on January 07, 2017, 06:50:19 pm
I also had the DSG remapped to compliment the type of map installed.
Post by: pudding on January 09, 2017, 02:31:41 pm
Just to add my 2 penneth, I went with my car today to R-Tech and found that it already had a Remap fitted of an unknown origin.
I actually came away with 20BHP Less than what I went in with but with a Map that was much safer, Also came away with a Map that offered far more drive-ability! Partial Throttle has improved greatly. Very happy indeed and today was my 4th visit to R-Tech on 4 different cars.
I appreciate the market for other tuners and there needs to be variety as different people like different things and I wont knock other maps just because they are not to my taste, I have driven TFSI's with other brands of Software fitted and for me ever since taking my first Golf Edition 30 to R-Tech and been very impressed with the results I have remained loyal to them ever since.
After my car was road tested and further logging was done the Map was then altered a couple of times to get around the K04 Surge Point.
I drove home feeling very valued and that I had received excellent service, Also that I was appreciated as a customer and what I wanted was listened to and reflected in the end result.
R-Tech typically make the same power as others using less boost, and going linear (their preferred approach) is less stressful than the aggressive torque delivery of Revo & superchips.
In comparison to which other vendors tune? And are the engines and supporting mods in question identical, and done on the same dyno on the same day?
If that is the case, then there is no reason why R-Tech's tune would make more than a different vendor's. Air in, burn it, exhaust out. There are no miracles on offer which defy physics.
All things being equal, the most likely reason for the discrepancies is dyno truthfulness.
Turbo engines should have an aggressive delivery imo, otherwise get a big n'asp engine :smiley:
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on January 09, 2017, 05:46:56 pm
So much more to tuning than just adding air in, burning it and pushing it out. No other tuner uses the VVT to aid turbo spool. . . It's no miracle, but hours of development identify these little nuggets of progress.
Most tuners did a few hours of development, release a tune then walk away. Only when you personally tune & fettle hundreds of different cars a year can you really find out what these engines have to offer.
Notice the v3.4 APR tune follows a very similar graph to the map James had on his K04 with WMI in here: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,43854.msg601159.html#msg601159
This made pretty much as much power & torque as a BT setup, and got a few surprised looks at the JKM Dyno day. It's not a sensible map for every day use, but shows what can be done by spooling the turbo one else, 'table-topping' boost and then spooling again. This was a development setup to see what these turbos & engines can do. 400bhp & 450lb/ft at 4,500rpm is crazy :grin:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,43854.msg624693.html#msg624693
Post by: AJP on January 09, 2017, 06:31:45 pm
My 2p (regarding partial throttle). R-Tech maps are the only maps I've had that are completely smooth and predictable going through various throttle/load positions. There's none of that sudden boost out of nowhere situation when you just want to get moving without drama. Other maps always seemed to have a bit of 'indecision' about them. Easily confused.
It's worth noting that the other maps I'm talking about were on different engines. 1.8T, AJM, etc. So my point may well be completely invalid!
It's only k03 Stage 2 so I don't think it's got 1:1 throttle mapping, but for what it is, it's very good. I can't pick any faults in it.
If and when I go k04 I have the option of having the mapping done along with the hardware, at Statller. I assume it'd be Revo. To be honest I'm 50/50. Would I gain that much by staying with R-Tech? Possibly. Would there be an advantage to using the same guy for hardware and software? Probably. If any issues arose after the conversion I'd imagine it'd be easier to diagnose and sort by effectively trusting Steve with the whole responsibility from the start. Best way I could word it but you get my point.
When I had misfire issues on the current map I got the impression there was only so much Steve felt he could investigate as it wasn't 'his' map. He did infer that the R-Tech map was running a lot of timing and could have been causing an issue. Which kind of put me at odds between Statller and R-Tech. Ultimately it got sorted with refurbed injectors but keeping it all in-house probably has its merits in some cases.
Anyway, my point is that it's not always as black and white as saying tuner A is 'better' than tuner B.
Bit of a ramble that
Post by: Madone on January 09, 2017, 07:30:33 pm
I don't have a issue with Rtech or their maps, they are good, but it's the attitude that only Rtech can map the car, everyone else's maps are rubbish, what Rtech do is magic etc etc haha :laugh: which I don't get. Even Nick from Rtech himself says other maps are good but different. I remember the day I joined the forum I asked a question about another map and got told they are crap, go to Rtech ! :jumpmove:
The Rtech map on my car felt more like a Vtech, it pulled hard at the top end but not as punchy down low. I prefer to ride the torque and have the car feel fast in every day use, rather than revving the car more. The Rtech felt fast but only when driving fast, it didn't feel as fast as the Revo when driving normally. Which lets face it, is how we drive 90% of the time.
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on January 09, 2017, 08:17:55 pm
I ran logs on my Rtech map and it was running too much timing for my liking (it was a 3deg day and pulling 6.5deg), the Revo map never pulled more than 4 or any day. So not sure what would happen on a hot day. Anyway....
I don't have a issue with Rtech or their maps, they are good, but it's the attitude that only Rtech can map the car, everyone else's maps are rubbish, what Rtech do is magic etc etc haha :laugh: which I don't get. Even Nick from Rtech himself says other maps are good but different. I remember the day I joined the forum I asked a question about another map and got told they are crap, go to Rtech ! :jumpmove:
The Rtech map on my car felt more like a Vtech, it pulled hard at the top end but not as punchy down low. I prefer to ride the torque and have the car feel fast in every day use, rather than revving the car more. The Rtech felt fast but only when driving fast, it didn't feel as fast as the Revo when driving normally. Which lets face it, is how we drive 90% of the time.
I don't think anyone is saying other maps are rubbish. . . Apart from Supperchips :laugh:
If you ask for a more aggressive map, Niki would give you just that. Referring to my earlier post "don't ask, don't get". :happy2:
I remember a guy on here was moaning about the fact that his map wasn't as punchy as he wanted, and Niki told him to bring it back and he sorted it for free. Normally he doesn't let you leave unless you are completely satisfied :smiley:
Post by: Madone on January 09, 2017, 08:29:25 pm
Post by: AJP on January 09, 2017, 08:36:26 pm
I ran logs on my Rtech map and it was running too much timing for my liking (it was a 3deg day and pulling 6.5deg), the Revo map never pulled more than 4 or any day. So not sure what would happen on a hot day. Anyway....The misfires I had were during the summer. They cleared up once I'd fitted the refurbed injectors, which if memory serves me correctly... coincided with much cooler weather. Hmmmm.
I don't have a issue with Rtech or their maps, they are good, but it's the attitude that only Rtech can map the car, everyone else's maps are rubbish, what Rtech do is magic etc etc hahawhich I don't get. Even Nick from Rtech himself says other maps are good but different. I remember the day I joined the forum I asked a question about another map and got told they are crap, go to Rtech ! :jumpmove:
The Rtech map on my car felt more like a Vtech, it pulled hard at the top end but not as punchy down low. I prefer to ride the torque and have the car feel fast in every day use, rather than revving the car more. The Rtech felt fast but only when driving fast, it didn't feel as fast as the Revo when driving normally. Which lets face it, is how we drive 90% of the time.
Post by: rtechniki on January 09, 2017, 09:05:23 pm
As for knock the timing maps are setup around air temp winter comes and they add more timing summer and 30deg+ ait and the timing is remove and compensated with additional boost. As for the knock reading it's where and when it happens and the routine to remove and add. The 020 readings are routine steps showing the ecu removing .75deg timing to keep the knock sensors happy, this is greatly effected by carbon build up and in the case above poor homogeneous mixture in the cylinders from failing injectors, clean inlet and injectors and the timing is greatly increased to where it should be the the knock routine is close to 0cf. The idea is to run optimised timing to MBT, go log any stock tfsi and report back. The worry is knock is put out there by tuners and has been for many years. Tuners want best power but don't want people moaning about the 020 readings, so what do they do? They try to make things look better to avoid the panic attacks during logging, so they add a greater filter to the readings on blocks 020 to stop all the panic email and support phone calls. Something i never signed upto because i want to actually see whats going on in real time during a logging session. If the timing is kept under control a car could run a flat 10cf and be as safe as a car running 0cf.. but in the industry is a scare tatic. Once the timing climbs and climbing to the point its pinking then that's that fatal part. A tfsi will pink and see 11cf+ at spike points in the peak torque band. This is linked to poor fuel too much timing advance.
Post by: rtechniki on January 09, 2017, 09:24:20 pm
Stage 2 by fuel volume and running into compressor surge
Stage2+ by compressor surge sub 3700rpm
A car will feel epic when mapped into the surge point and will seem faster lower down. But again the surge is something i aim to reduce and avoid at a compromise to the initial low down aggressive feeling. But 4000rpm + on stage2+ with the supporting hardwares there is the room for us to tune to 400lbft if the customer wants that kind of raw grunt.
The way forward is an anti surge compressor wheel to remove the surge flaw from the turbo... then its torque from 2900rpm with no flutter. The biggest worry for customers when they come in is surge they ask if it's possible to fully remove it, 80% of cars coming in are already tuned and the customer knows what they are wanting from their tuning session. Customers can come back when ever if they are not happy or want something changes to match their needs more.
Map switch is only used on stage 1 and 2 cars where the clutch is a worry to allow customers to remove torque at a later date to stop clutch slip instead of having to come back to be detuned or / pay for a new clutch.
Min requirements for stage2+ is a clutch so we offer a full pid based map only for better refined boost control at the higher faster ramping boost demands.
if a customer is not happy or needs questions answering we offer a life time off ownership free support and help when and where we can.
Post by: rtechniki on January 09, 2017, 10:35:54 pm
Post by: pudding on January 10, 2017, 04:58:44 pm
Oh gawd.. it's turned into one of those threads!
My 2p (regarding partial throttle). R-Tech maps are the only maps I've had that are completely smooth and predictable going through various throttle/load positions. There's none of that sudden boost out of nowhere situation when you just want to get moving without drama. Other maps always seemed to have a bit of 'indecision' about them. Easily confused.
It's worth noting that the other maps I'm talking about were on different engines. 1.8T, AJM, etc. So my point may well be completely invalid!
It's only k03 Stage 2 so I don't think it's got 1:1 throttle mapping, but for what it is, it's very good. I can't pick any faults in it.
If and when I go k04 I have the option of having the mapping done along with the hardware, at Statller. I assume it'd be Revo. To be honest I'm 50/50. Would I gain that much by staying with R-Tech? Possibly. Would there be an advantage to using the same guy for hardware and software? Probably. If any issues arose after the conversion I'd imagine it'd be easier to diagnose and sort by effectively trusting Steve with the whole responsibility from the start. Best way I could word it but you get my point.
When I had misfire issues on the current map I got the impression there was only so much Steve felt he could investigate as it wasn't 'his' map. He did infer that the R-Tech map was running a lot of timing and could have been causing an issue. Which kind of put me at odds between Statller and R-Tech. Ultimately it got sorted with refurbed injectors but keeping it all in-house probably has its merits in some cases.
Anyway, my point is that it's not always as black and white as saying tuner A is 'better' than tuner B.
Bit of a ramble that
Nah it's all good. A bit of healthy debate doesn't hurt :smiley: There's a difference between arguing for the sake of arguing (or trolling as yoofs of today like to call it), and trying to gain a better understanding with the hows, the whys and the science behind it. I for one don't take anything on face value and like to dig deeper.
I will say that Niki is one of the most community spirited tuners I've seen. Always happy to share info and doesn't take questions or criticisms personally. I only know of one other tuner like that, but he doesn't frequent the forums :smiley:
Your last point is very true. Everything in car tuning is totally subjective. Everyone has their favourite brand of suspension, tyres, brakes, oil etc and the same is true of tuners I guess.
I don't dislike my current Stg 1 custom map. It's held it's own against a Merc A45 AMG and a few stage 2 ED30s, so it's clearly got the minerals....but it just doesn't feel quite as plump and juicy as my old Revo map.