Post by: AliGTI on January 16, 2017, 11:26:56 am
Has anyone else noticed this and or changed anything to make their MK5 feel like new again? Where should I start?
Post by: mkmg76 on January 16, 2017, 12:12:36 pm
Morning all. Our Mk5's are not getting any younger. Mine is now just over the 100,000 and is feeling a bit less tight in her old age. When I rev the engine I notice the block moves quite a bit and it doesn't begin to move as quick as it used to. By that I mean the engine makes noise when I'm pulling away but it seems to take that bit longer for the wheels to turn. A slight lag perhaps? Also the steering seems to be a little sloppy these days. As I said it just doesn't feel tight anymore.
Has anyone else noticed this and or changed anything to make their MK5 feel like new again? Where should I start?
If it's rocking under load from revs just sitting still, most likely your mounts are knackered. Try changing those for a start and see if that does anything for you. After that, most of the "tired" feeling from cars is down to worn rubber suspension parts so think about investigating those next.
HTH :happy2:
Post by: fab5freddy on January 16, 2017, 12:22:23 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblackforestindustries.com%2Fblah%2Fmk5transcompare.jpg&hash=77a18ac52d62d4803911a5603d4546a8d6245255)
Post by: AliGTI on January 16, 2017, 12:59:43 pm
As above, the engine mounts would be my first port of call
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblackforestindustries.com%2Fblah%2Fmk5transcompare.jpg&hash=77a18ac52d62d4803911a5603d4546a8d6245255)
Yikes! That looks like a good place to start. I'll investigate how to go about it.
Post by: MartinGTI on January 16, 2017, 01:03:40 pm
Post by: flashp on January 16, 2017, 01:03:50 pm
Assuming you're on original parts??
Vibratechnics engine mounts are a good choice, I have Revo and NVH levels may not suit some. Apparently Vibratechnics are better with this although I've no firsthand experience of them. :happy2:
Post by: fab5freddy on January 16, 2017, 01:04:13 pm
As above, the engine mounts would be my first port of call
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblackforestindustries.com%2Fblah%2Fmk5transcompare.jpg&hash=77a18ac52d62d4803911a5603d4546a8d6245255)
Yikes! That looks like a good place to start. I'll investigate how to go about it.
Have a look through this thread, there's some good info here :happy2:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,21421.0.html (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,21421.0.html)
Post by: bad devotions on January 16, 2017, 10:49:47 pm
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Post by: AliGTI on January 17, 2017, 12:08:26 am
Post by: bad devotions on January 17, 2017, 08:00:08 am
I am somewhat suprised at the cost of the mounts; I am trying to figure out what's what at the moment but like i said before top and side mounts would probably resolve your problem and is something that i'd like to get done now. I am going to see how much OEM ones are. Suspension was next on my list anyway so i may as welll get the mounts done too.
Post by: ducman77 on January 17, 2017, 08:04:48 am
Post by: bad devotions on January 17, 2017, 08:15:24 am
I fitted all new standard engine and gearbox mounts and dogbone from Volkswagen also with the PowerFlex Dogbone insert. Made a big difference to the car! Not cheap though I think all in it was about €400. But they are genuine Volkswagen parts. You can get Pattern parts for cheaper but I'm not sure if they're any good? A worthwhile mod in my opinion :happy2:
nice. :happy2:
Any chance of part numbers? It all sounds gobbledegook to me tbh. Or at least how many parts is that all together?
I really need to get a Haynes manual so i can see what's what. :thinking:
Post by: bad devotions on January 17, 2017, 08:24:23 am
Post by: pudding on January 17, 2017, 09:05:12 am
Dampers and springs along with associated bushes. Refreshing with OE is all that's required for this.
Assuming you're on original parts??
Vibratechnics engine mounts are a good choice, I have Revo and NVH levels may not suit some. Apparently Vibratechnics are better with this although I've no firsthand experience of them. :happy2:
They cause a fair bit of vibration too :smiley:
Post by: bad devotions on January 17, 2017, 09:25:50 am
http://www.racingline-performance.com/vwr-uprated-lower-engine-mount-a5-platform
ta muchly.
Post by: pudding on January 17, 2017, 09:29:15 am
Post by: bad devotions on January 17, 2017, 09:33:37 am
Correct - although I would get this one instead - http://www.vibra-technics.co.uk/vw/golf_jetta_bora_vento_mkvvi/463/VAG520M/bottom_engine_mount_subframe_mount_20r32
magic! thanks for that.
Any reason why you would go this over the VWR one? just personal preference? price?
Post by: pudding on January 17, 2017, 11:07:45 am
Correct - although I would get this one instead - http://www.vibra-technics.co.uk/vw/golf_jetta_bora_vento_mkvvi/463/VAG520M/bottom_engine_mount_subframe_mount_20r32
magic! thanks for that.
Any reason why you would go this over the VWR one? just personal preference? price?
The VWR ones are made by Vibratechnics anyway, but VWR specify a poly blend instead of rubber, which is stiffer. I also seem to remember Alex Kerr on here (runs AKS tuning) saying the VWR blue material doesn't last very long. I've had the Vibratechnics one on mine for years and it's still going strong :happy2: Vibration is barely any different to standard. I have new OEM side mounts.
Post by: bad devotions on January 17, 2017, 11:53:06 am
Correct - although I would get this one instead - http://www.vibra-technics.co.uk/vw/golf_jetta_bora_vento_mkvvi/463/VAG520M/bottom_engine_mount_subframe_mount_20r32
magic! thanks for that.
Any reason why you would go this over the VWR one? just personal preference? price?
The VWR ones are made by Vibratechnics anyway, but VWR specify a poly blend instead of rubber, which is stiffer. I also seem to remember Alex Kerr on here (runs AKS tuning) saying the VWR blue material doesn't last very long. I've had the Vibratechnics one on mine for years and it's still going strong :happy2: Vibration is barely any different to standard. I have new OEM side mounts.
nice one. i actually found the thread you mentioned so happy days. i'll get the vibratechnics one then (it's cheaper too which is a bonus!). Apologies to AliGTI for the massive thread hyjack :D :D
Post by: f00glee on January 17, 2017, 12:53:19 pm
At any point, once someone has an idea of the descriptions and OE part numbers for the various engine and gearbox mounts, I'd be greatful if they were posted!
I started to try and figure them all out for myself the other day and didnt get very far at all!
Same goes for any aftermarket parts which may be comparable to the OE ones in tems of NVH (e.g. the vibratechnics ones mentioned by @Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) )
Cheers :happy2:
Post by: f00glee on January 17, 2017, 12:59:13 pm
Following this post with interest.
At any point, once someone has an idea of the descriptions and OE part numbers for the various engine and gearbox mounts, I'd be greatful if they were posted!
I started to try and figure them all out for myself the other day and didnt get very far at all!
Same goes for any aftermarket parts which may be comparable to the OE ones in tems of NVH (e.g. the vibratechnics ones mentioned by @Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) )
Cheers :happy2:
Ignore me - followed the vibratechnics link and found all of their equivalent mounts listed against the OE part numbers!
:signLOL:
Post by: AJP on January 17, 2017, 01:01:51 pm
Maybe someone with experience of this can chime in.
Post by: pudding on January 17, 2017, 01:18:54 pm
You basically get some good OEM mounts (preferably brand new ones), glue a piece of thin wood or plastic to one side, or silicon it on. Then pour in the liquid urethane at the open end so it fills up the gaps. There are plenty of videos on youtube about it :smiley:
That is pretty much what the 034 Motorsport street density mounts are, but they're not cheap! Redesigned rubber mounts without the voids.
All 3 Vibratechnics mounts WILL increase noise and vibrations, just to make that clear. Just to a lesser degree than poly mounts. It's the Vibra dogbone + OEMS that give near factory refinement.
Post by: AJP on January 17, 2017, 01:43:00 pm
Liquid urethane mate. Silicon would just squeeze out. You can buy it on ebay with different shore durometer ratings. Aftermarket mount makers often put the OEM mounts at 40 shore, so I would get a urethane of similar rating, or a bit softer.Cheers for the info Pudding, very informative. I'll look into this when I get round to my little chassis overhaul. At the moment the plan is KW V1, Superpro ALK, and mounts. Maybe H&R roll bars too. I'm prepared for the increased stiffness and vibration. It's kind of inevitable I'll lose a fair degree of comfort depending how far I take things but that's the price we pay.
You basically get some good OEM mounts (preferably brand new ones), glue a piece of thin wood or plastic to one side, or silicon it on. Then pour in the liquid urethane at the open end so it fills up the gaps. There are plenty of videos on youtube about it :smiley:
That is pretty much what the 034 Motorsport street density mounts are, but they're not cheap! Redesigned rubber mounts without the voids.
All 3 Vibratechnics mounts WILL increase noise and vibrations, just to make that clear. Just to a lesser degree than poly mounts. It's the Vibra dogbone + OEMS that give near factory refinement.
Post by: bad devotions on January 17, 2017, 01:54:22 pm
Keen to know what can be done regarding steering. My golf feels vague, but not sure if that's because i am now accustomed to my car and i am nit picking. I assume there must be some bushes somewhere in the steering rack that could be replaced. Maybe is simply a sympton of something else. I don't have another mk5 to compare it to!
Post by: pudding on January 17, 2017, 01:59:55 pm
Liquid urethane mate. Silicon would just squeeze out. You can buy it on ebay with different shore durometer ratings. Aftermarket mount makers often put the OEM mounts at 40 shore, so I would get a urethane of similar rating, or a bit softer.Cheers for the info Pudding, very informative. I'll look into this when I get round to my little chassis overhaul. At the moment the plan is KW V1, Superpro ALK, and mounts. Maybe H&R roll bars too. I'm prepared for the increased stiffness and vibration. It's kind of inevitable I'll lose a fair degree of comfort depending how far I take things but that's the price we pay.
You basically get some good OEM mounts (preferably brand new ones), glue a piece of thin wood or plastic to one side, or silicon it on. Then pour in the liquid urethane at the open end so it fills up the gaps. There are plenty of videos on youtube about it :smiley:
That is pretty much what the 034 Motorsport street density mounts are, but they're not cheap! Redesigned rubber mounts without the voids.
All 3 Vibratechnics mounts WILL increase noise and vibrations, just to make that clear. Just to a lesser degree than poly mounts. It's the Vibra dogbone + OEMS that give near factory refinement.
Here is a good thread for DIY engine mounts - http://www.superhonda.com/forum/f94/diy-homemade-polyurethane-engine-mounts-204274/
That guy used 60A Durometer urethane which is a tad bit stiff and said he gets vibrations at idle. I thought our mounts had some voids in them, jesus, THEY are voids!!!
Liking your plans! Don't get me wrong about the VibraTech mounts (as in all 3, fast road spec), they really do tighten the car up round corners, and the vibration is less during summer, and only at certain rpms.....but it is there, and it is irritating. I had them on my MK4 R32 (now THAT is a big lump to keep still) and they worked great, but caused a horrible shake in the cabin at 1200rpm. An rpm I used frequently on a daily basis, so they had to go. I went back to OEM with a dogbone. The MK5 would be the same. Same mounts. I need to find a middle ground! Maybe the 034 motorsports option?
I have acquired all the bits to switch over to alloy hubs and wishbones, and the VWR spring/damper kit is sitting at home awaiting fitment also.
I need to get it done ASAP. Followed a Corsa VXR the other night at some fairly fruity speeds on a back road. Left handers, fine, but on a very sharp right hander, the VXR shot round with no drama. Mine practically understeered off the road, and it was dry! Fair enough, summer tyres (PS4) and 2.5 degrees, but he was on summers as well :ashamed: I'm just hoping it's a combination of a heavier car and 107K old suspension....and my missus adding weight to that corner :grin:
If a Corsa can outhandle a MK5 GTI, then I'm hanging up my modding gloves forever!!
Post by: pudding on January 17, 2017, 02:08:39 pm
i've gone from looking at suspension next to getting quotes to supply and fit the Vibratechnics one from AwesomeGTI :D. Already have a super-pro ALK so figure that plus the engine mount then suspension would be aces.
Keen to know what can be done regarding steering. My golf feels vague, but not sure if that's because i am now accustomed to my car and i am nit picking. I assume there must be some bushes somewhere in the steering rack that could be replaced. Maybe is simply a sympton of something else. I don't have another mk5 to compare it to!
Haha, you're on that slippery slope now :grin:
The steering is just how these cars are. You could try deflating the tyres a bit. I and a few others find 33psi to be perfect (with 18s at least). The standard 38psi is ridiculous and can cause premature wear in the middle of the tyre, which definitely kills the steering feel just off centre, and increases tramlining.
Other than that, camber/caster plates in place of the OEM top mounts will restore some feel.
Post by: AJP on January 17, 2017, 02:14:28 pm
I've got a Powerflex dogbone insert in at the minute - got it fitted with the BCS - and I can't say it's made a huge difference. Maybe a proper uprated dogbone mount along with modded oem or 034 mounts is the best solution, like you say.
As for the Corsa, I'd imagine its dampers, bushes, mounts etc were all a lot fresher than yours. And you're right about the PS4s, they're pretty damn good down to about 7 degrees but much colder than that and you can really feel the grip dropping off. Put the same cars together on a warmer day and with your upgrades fitted and I doubt he'd walk it like that!
Post by: pudding on January 17, 2017, 02:43:52 pm
So the 034 mounts, they're somewhere between oem and VibraTech in terms of compliance and comfort then, theoretically?
I've got a Powerflex dogbone insert in at the minute - got it fitted with the BCS - and I can't say it's made a huge difference. Maybe a proper uprated dogbone mount along with modded oem or 034 mounts is the best solution, like you say.
As for the Corsa, I'd imagine its dampers, bushes, mounts etc were all a lot fresher than yours. And you're right about the PS4s, they're pretty damn good down to about 7 degrees but much colder than that and you can really feel the grip dropping off. Put the same cars together on a warmer day and with your upgrades fitted and I doubt he'd walk it like that!
That should be the case, in theory! A lot of people say the vibration increase is only very slight.
The Vibratechnics is a complete redesign and definitely works better than inserts. Also, remember the small end of the dogbone also has a voided bush. Vibratechnics do a replacement (solid rubber) one for that end too.
I hope so! Mine doesn't seem to like right handers in general now I think of it. Had another situation with a Focus ST on a damp right hander. I think I mentioned that in a different thread. He shot round no probs, mine wheel span, understeered, popped and banged (TC) like mad trying to keep up. But left handers I never have a problem with. Must just be the only corners I can give it some on my daily route, or my geometry is off. Or my car has been thumped on the passenger side. There are some clues to that actually.
Post by: bad devotions on January 17, 2017, 02:54:40 pm
Post by: AJP on January 17, 2017, 03:04:26 pm
Definitely something a bit off there mate, assuming you didn't just happen to hit two different right handers that were badly off camber. Not uncommon on the odd b-road, as well as the surface on the nearside being pitted and crumbly.So the 034 mounts, they're somewhere between oem and VibraTech in terms of compliance and comfort then, theoretically?
I've got a Powerflex dogbone insert in at the minute - got it fitted with the BCS - and I can't say it's made a huge difference. Maybe a proper uprated dogbone mount along with modded oem or 034 mounts is the best solution, like you say.
As for the Corsa, I'd imagine its dampers, bushes, mounts etc were all a lot fresher than yours. And you're right about the PS4s, they're pretty damn good down to about 7 degrees but much colder than that and you can really feel the grip dropping off. Put the same cars together on a warmer day and with your upgrades fitted and I doubt he'd walk it like that!
That should be the case, in theory! A lot of people say the vibration increase is only very slight.
The Vibratechnics is a complete redesign and definitely works better than inserts. Also, remember the small end of the dogbone also has a voided bush. Vibratechnics do a replacement (solid rubber) one for that end too.
I hope so! Mine doesn't seem to like right handers in general now I think of it. Had another situation with a Focus ST on a damp right hander. I think I mentioned that in a different thread. He shot round no probs, mine wheel span, understeered, popped and banged (TC) like mad trying to keep up. But left handers I never have a problem with. Must just be the only corners I can give it some on my daily route, or my geometry is off. Or my car has been thumped on the passenger side. There are some clues to that actually.
Maybe something to investigate. It certainly infers something's not quite right.
Post by: pudding on January 17, 2017, 04:38:25 pm
Definitely something a bit off there mate, assuming you didn't just happen to hit two different right handers that were badly off camber. Not uncommon on the odd b-road, as well as the surface on the nearside being pitted and crumbly.So the 034 mounts, they're somewhere between oem and VibraTech in terms of compliance and comfort then, theoretically?
I've got a Powerflex dogbone insert in at the minute - got it fitted with the BCS - and I can't say it's made a huge difference. Maybe a proper uprated dogbone mount along with modded oem or 034 mounts is the best solution, like you say.
As for the Corsa, I'd imagine its dampers, bushes, mounts etc were all a lot fresher than yours. And you're right about the PS4s, they're pretty damn good down to about 7 degrees but much colder than that and you can really feel the grip dropping off. Put the same cars together on a warmer day and with your upgrades fitted and I doubt he'd walk it like that!
That should be the case, in theory! A lot of people say the vibration increase is only very slight.
The Vibratechnics is a complete redesign and definitely works better than inserts. Also, remember the small end of the dogbone also has a voided bush. Vibratechnics do a replacement (solid rubber) one for that end too.
I hope so! Mine doesn't seem to like right handers in general now I think of it. Had another situation with a Focus ST on a damp right hander. I think I mentioned that in a different thread. He shot round no probs, mine wheel span, understeered, popped and banged (TC) like mad trying to keep up. But left handers I never have a problem with. Must just be the only corners I can give it some on my daily route, or my geometry is off. Or my car has been thumped on the passenger side. There are some clues to that actually.
Maybe something to investigate. It certainly infers something's not quite right.
To be fair, those particular corners have always been challenging with every VW I've owned, so must just be the brand :grin:
I'm too afraid to look into it in case all manner of horrors unfold :grin:
Post by: bad devotions on January 17, 2017, 05:38:03 pm
Post by: chigmuss on January 17, 2017, 07:33:32 pm
Post by: AJP on January 17, 2017, 07:48:24 pm
And now you've spent a wad of cash under the car, make it feel new inside......retrim steering wheel, new grab handles, gear knob and hand brake gaiter, drivers bolster (if worn), new switches (chrome tip if not already) , new set of mats. It's addictive.Woah woah woah! Trying to get people to spend more money, on THIS forum...?! It's bad enough already, I've already earmarked my next grand or so. But now you mention it, an interior refresh.... hmmm. It's not as reckless as wingbacks so therefore it's immeasurably sensible.
[Must stop getting expensive ideas]
Post by: bad devotions on January 17, 2017, 09:00:49 pm
(have also earmarked my next grand - eek!)
Post by: pudding on January 18, 2017, 10:50:43 am
Just been quoted £326.00 to supply and fit the vibratechnics lower engine mount at AwesomeGTI. Apparently a pig to fit as the subframe has to come out. I did ask Awesome about discounts for members of this forum but no mention of anything :'(
Yep! Hopefully the subframe bolts will come out easily. This would be the ideal time to add the Tyrol sport dead set kit. The subframe is known for moving under heavy loads on the MK5, which manifests itself as a loud click/clonk noise when turning at slow speeds. The dead set kit locks the subframe into place far more effectively than the OEM method. It also ensures the geometry doesn't change, which can happen if the subframe shifts.
Post by: bad devotions on January 18, 2017, 10:53:04 am
Post by: pudding on January 18, 2017, 10:57:39 am
Post by: bad devotions on January 18, 2017, 01:28:24 pm