MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: SteveP on December 24, 2008, 08:22:04 pm
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I still have the standard brakes on my ED30 but they will be sorted shortly just not sure which one's yet :confused:
(New Split topic from Original Superchips one due to me taking it off course :signLOL:)
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Yep still the standard brakes but they will be sorted shortly just not sure which one's yet :confused:
be the first with the Audi RS4's :happy2:
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....
The trick with selecting the right brakes is getting the most appropriate ones for the specific car - It's not just about getting the biggest.
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yeh i do agree, 4 pot AP's are more than enough for the GTi, that said someone has to do the RS4's 8)
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Good advise Robin :happy2:, that's why I need to do quite a bit of research as I want something appropriate to car and it's performance but can still stand up to the high mileage I do without needing excessive maintenance.
Shaun, I do like the look of the RS4 brakes just not sure if these are suited to my needs :confused:
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Good advise Robin :happy2:, that's why I need to do quite a bit of research as I want something appropriate to car and it's performance but can still stand up to the high mileage I do without needing excessive maintenance.
Shaun, I do like the look of the RS4 brakes just not sure if these are suited to my needs :confused:
for day to day proper OEM type use i would get AP 4 pots, for the bling effect i would get the RS4's
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what is your thoughts on just changing the pads, discs and break lines :ashamed: i would love some big breaks but cost is an issue so how effective would this route be?
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what is your thoughts on just changing the pads, discs and break lines :ashamed: i would love some big breaks but cost is an issue so how effective would this route be?
i personally would go for the R32 set up from the GB on here over just pad/ disc upgrade :happy2:
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^^^ My current thinking is either the R32 setup with some better pads or a set of 4 pot AP's, I don't see enough benefit from just upgrading the pads and disc's on the standard setup :happy2:
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^^^ My current thinking is either the R32 setup with some better pads or a set of 4 pot AP's, I don't see enough benefit from just upgrading the pads and disc's on the standard setup :happy2:
if it was me i would get the AP's, i had the same setup as the R32 on my last car and i upgraded that :happy2:
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....
We've meandered a bit off topic [Cool split-off, Steve] :happy2:..........
...........but more pots = bigger pads = much more expensive.
I'm not saying that AP Racing's 4-pots for the GTI are way and above better than anyone else's but I will go as far as saying that, for the GTI for Fast Road use, they are absolutely faultless and stunningly effective!
I'm about to find out how expensive some new DS2500 pads for them are.
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^^^ My current thinking is either the R32 setup with some better pads or a set of 4 pot AP's, I don't see enough benefit from just upgrading the pads and disc's on the standard setup :happy2:
if it was me i would get the AP's, i had the same setup as the R32 on my last car and i upgraded that :happy2:
Cheers Shaun :happy2:
I think know my quest for power end's here but the mission to control and better use what I now have has only just begun
....^^ Your words sound uncannily similar to those of Hurdy! :evilgrin:
You know, it's absolutely fatal to come on these car forums, Steve! - The Slippery Slope :evilgrin:
I thought it was bad enough just being a member of a forum but a swear it's got far worse being the admin of one :xmaslaugh: :xmaslaugh:
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:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:
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Im also upgrading in the New year and im thinking along the lines of R32 calipers with cross drilled discs and upgraded fast road use pads.
I think this will be effective without costing the earth.
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I was thinking about brakes, would RS4 discs and toureg 6 pots work with custom carriers? :jumping:
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^^^^
It sounds as if the aftermarket car modding industry may be saved from the 'credit crunch' in 2009!!
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Someone mention big brake upgrades :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:
Both RedRobin's AP's and the Tarox's I have were designed specifically for the GTI application. The Tarox's may be 10 pots, but the cylinders are smaller to give a more even spread of pressure over a slightly larger pad. The smaller pots mean that the master doesn't need an upgrade and can still supply the correct pressure to the pads. The Tarox's have a fantastic solid feel to them in use and are very progressive. To cap it off they don't even squeak like I was told they may do because of the high friction pads :happy2:
I reckon that R32 brakes are a good step up for a remapped GTI, but I'd seriously consider an AP, Brembo or RS4 upgrade with the 300 horsies to tame in the ED30.
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Cheers Hurdy, thats useful information for me to absorb as part of my research :happy2:
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I think it comes down to a few things
1. Budget, if you can afford it go for the best
2. Practicality, what do you do, are you a trackday driver get the best in your budget again.
3. Daily driver, spirited use, R32 is more than enough. money saved can go on handling attributes.
I have the R32 setup and its great i fall into category 3 fast road use with 3 trips a year to the 1/4mile strip.
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I agree Keith.
Up till now I've done a few trackdays and plenty of 1/4milers, but next year the old girl is gonna get a good spanking and so I need the best.
As for R32 brakes being okay for fast road use - maybe, but the Tarox's have saved me once from a bad incursion where I don't think the R32's would have :scared:
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So the big question what the kind of budget needed for AP's or the Tarox??
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2Frs4discs2.jpg&hash=43171b93c56993d2f868732d637817ed0c730999)
RS4 discs and cupra disc :evilgrin: the 8 pots are nice and oem ie easy to service and to get part for ie your audi dealer thats y i like them and will be fitting some next year :evilgrin:
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Mat, If I went for the R32 calipers, what uprated discs and pads would you recommend? :happy2:
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Mat, If I went for the R32 calipers, what uprated discs and pads would you recommend? :happy2:
i think tarox do some discs for them and neuspeed do them aswell and some ferodo pads.
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Mat, If I went for the R32 calipers, what uprated discs and pads would you recommend? :happy2:
i think tarox do some discs for them and neuspeed do them aswell and some ferodo pads.
Cheers Buddy :happy2:
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Mat, If I went for the R32 calipers, what uprated discs and pads would you recommend? :happy2:
i think tarox do some discs for them and neuspeed do them aswell and some ferodo pads.
how much are the traox discs and said pads
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vw racing do a nice set up, see if they will do a group buy on breaks and diff
http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/sales_bigbrake.html
come on its christmas :santa:
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I think for the £ the cupra setup is great and as with the rs4 setup all parts can be srviced at any dealer as they will have discs and pads in stock so no messing about. The thing to think about is the cupra/s3/r32 brakes are 1 large piston and if you want a more hardcore setup go for the AP kit or the rs4 8 pots :evilgrin: i have looked at the ecs stage 5 kit but dont fancy a 10mm spacer on the front or the big porsche logo :smiley:
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Here's the TAROX catalogues.
http://www.tarox.com/en/katalogi.php
And here's where you can get them (apart from Awesome GTI)
:happy2:
http://www.europerformance.co.uk/brakes/tarox/Tarox_Brake_Pads.mhtml
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vw racing do a nice set up, see if they will do a group buy on breaks and diff
http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/sales_bigbrake.html
come on its christmas :santa:
2k for this setup no thanks as i can do rs4 8 pots for £1350
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vw racing do a nice set up, see if they will do a group buy on breaks and diff
http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/sales_bigbrake.html
come on its christmas :santa:
2k for this setup no thanks as i can do rs4 8 pots for £1350
LOL,
You think that is expensive - the TAROX GT10 pots are £2,400 PLUS fitting :scared:
Unless you got a good deal like me :wink: (£1,000 inc fitting) :xmassmiley:
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you got a bargain there :wink: good old awesome :wink:
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If I hadn't got the TAROX's and was thinking about an upgrade then the RS4 upgrade would be near the top of the list at £1,350.
Brembo do a Junior upgrade at around £1k plus fitting, but the discs are still a little on the small side.
R32 upgrade is a value option, but is a heavy item and still only single pot.
AP's are a very well respected brake system, but they too are a little on the expensive side at around £1700 plus fitting for RR's set-up.
:xmassmiley:
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So the big question what the kind of budget needed for AP's or the Tarox??
....AP's cost about £1,700.
I would have bought VWR/RacingLine if I had known them then and if they had had their brakes available then, but I have absolutely no regrets and love my AP's.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FAP_Brake1.jpg&hash=51087e9db559fc54ec51188c16b84d03c0726b4d)
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How many more times are we gonna see that pic around the site Robin? Wearing a little thin now :grin:
What about these then :innocent:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2FTAROXb34-gt-10.jpg&hash=5993d35b05ab28442da1e53a03054f4d2de73563)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2FTAROX10potsatAwesome.jpg&hash=6437ba25a8727662a1cc75d830f3bdc60a945377)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2FTAROX10potsatAwesome2.jpg&hash=a6d58a394640037a8d571bb20bdfa3e0e23260f3)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2FTAROXbrakes002web.jpg&hash=0e4ce7bc6605228dc2d36a6b3e7f7af768333c19)
or the Porsche ones!
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi156.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2FJBSpics010.jpg&hash=323f9cf0a8bf128b6110a7f7e885288cc2309b3c)
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Stop it Hurdy your really not helping my rapidly worsening addiction :wink: :drool: :drool:
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The 362mm discs and 6-pot AP Racing's finest I have en-route... drool!
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autotech.com%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2Fbigbrakeconv_mk5.jpg&hash=a7d28d2d6a46c2bd76c7c359e78a6b840d71c1be)
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^^^^
AP's Senior Engineer reckons that their 6-pot is a bit overkill just for 'Fast Road' use. Expensive pads too.
Hurdy - I didn't realise your Tarox's 10's were all small pots - Their functionality you describe seems an excellent idea.
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Discs on wrong hurdy LOL :rolleye: :wink:
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^^^^
AP's Senior Engineer reckons that their 6-pot is a bit overkill just for 'Fast Road' use. Expensive pads too.
He's probably right, but with a full calendar in the new year's track day season and 2 trips to the 'ring booked so far.. mine will need the bigger stoppers. It's all down to what you actually need for your car - I'm not buying them to just appear 'flash' or trump anyone else's.
I can get DS2500's for an AP 6-pot for around £180, considering I've saved around a £1000 on the brakes.. I can stomach a few sets.
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^^^^
Exactly his point - 6-pot overkill for my use, but not for your use :happy2:
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By the sounds of it the R32 setup looks like a great upgrade at a great price for everyday use and the odd track day - if you have that little more to spend or planning on quite a few track days they the next step is Brembo/AP/RS setup - all at a price of course.
Depending on cash flow in the new year I could be tempted with an R32 setup.
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What we do need to remember is its all down to grip on the road, you can have the biggest/bestest brakes you like, but if you've reached the limits of the tyres grip on the road they won't make any difference at all. Get good tyres :happy2:
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By the sounds of it the R32 setup looks like a great upgrade at a great price for everyday use and the odd track day - if you have that little more to spend or planning on quite a few track days they the next step is Brembo/AP/RS setup - all at a price of course.
Depending on cash flow in the new year I could be tempted with an R32 setup.
I think that's a good way of describing it Neg :happy2:
My needs I think I am going to go with a set of the R32 brakes but with some upgraded discs/pads, especially after seeing on the other thread the rears can be fitted too :driver:
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^^^^
Anything can be done but be aware that any change to rear brakes involves all sorts of jiggery-pokery with the handbrake gear etc, and that approx 85% of braking is done on the front of our FWD GTI's.
Not trying to put you off doing it but just forewarning you, Steve and others.
:happy2:
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Damn... and I thought the Brembos were dear at £1k :rolleye: Any tips on how to get Tarox 10-pots for £1000 Hurdy? Sexual favours or something along those lines... :signLOL: Looks like I'll have to revise the cost of my own brake upgrade :surprised: :sad: BTW, those Tarox's look :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: Not sure what I need atm, but I have a feeling I'll be getting the Quaife and brakes done at the same time by VWR sometime in February if everything goes to plan. :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: The cost of this modding lark is fast approaching £10k :scared: Could have got another GTI for that although to be honest, I don't regret it at all. My Ed30 is in the garage and 'out-of-order' at present - needs alloys changing and tracking/suspension looking at - JKM will do it next week or the week after. As much as I am enjoying driving the R32 - no wheelspin :driver: - it doesn't compare to my modded Ed30 - its an awesome car now.
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Discs on wrong hurdy LOL :rolleye: :wink:
Not now :happy2:
That was an old pic :signLOL:
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Damn... and I thought the Brembos were dear at £1k :rolleye: Any tips on how to get Tarox 10-pots for £1000 Hurdy? Sexual favours or something along those lines... :signLOL: Looks like I'll have to revise the cost of my own brake upgrade :surprised: :sad: BTW, those Tarox's look :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
LOL,
Illyun, You could always ask Awesome for their 12 pots off their Stage 3 GTI :signLOL:
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or you could just buy the car :signLOL:
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Damn... and I thought the Brembos were dear at £1k... Any tips on how to get Tarox 10-pots for £1000 Hurdy?... Looks like I'll have to revise the cost of my own brake upgrade... Not sure what I need atm, but I have a feeling I'll be getting the Quaife and brakes done at the same time by VWR sometime in February if everything goes to plan.
....If you are going to VWR for the Quaife, it would definitely be worthwhile talking to Mark about their brakes.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FRED_INK%2FYouKnowYouWantTo.jpg&hash=300d7ccce563c38ea613471d64a7c2679e38fcde)
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I agree with Gaz, tyres play a big part.
TBH I dont think there is that much wrong with the standard GTI setup for normal road use, they does the job pretty well but of course like anything improvements could be made.
Remember its not always how quick you can stop though :driver:
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The 362mm discs and 6-pot AP Racing's finest I have en-route... drool!
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autotech.com%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2Fbigbrakeconv_mk5.jpg&hash=a7d28d2d6a46c2bd76c7c359e78a6b840d71c1be)
i had these on my last car (£1299+vat) but found them a little noisey and compromised for day to day driving, they were however very good on the braking front
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^^LOL, I know exactly what you mean..
I had Tarox's and DS2500's on my Anni and if they weren't used in anger for a few days they'd squeal like a stuck pig! Oddly though the second set of pads never had the same problem.
^^^^
Exactly his point - 6-pot overkill for my use, but not for your use :happy2:
This is just my opinion and by no means gospel.
If I was being asked, I'd recommend a decent set of pads and GOOD, high spec. fresh fluid on an R32 set up will be more than enough for most and with a bit of sympathetic driving will stand up to the odd track day (i.e. don't go staying out for too long and cook them). I'd go grooved over drilled discs if those were on the agenda too - just don't get anything EBC, it's garbage.
Your set up RR is pretty much ideal for anyone wanting to spend a bit more to reduce weight and get more power/less fade. I think it's the best mid-range set up you can buy. Alcons are AP standard, but I've discovered hard to get a decent range of pads for. RS4's are a great buy and Hurdy's are very trick too.
The Porsche/ECS ones are just for show, I wouldn't touch them.
And finally the big boys. 360mm discs and big calipers are as you say wasted on most. Usually found on 2 types of cars - Credit card wonders that'll never see a day's work for fear of making dust, and track slags.
Those VWR ones are surely based on an AP set up?? for the money, they're bang on. The cheapest I could find AP 6-pots (albiet with only a 330mm disc) was £1900 on the open market. So for bigger discs and essentially the same calipers/pads made specifically for a MKV, then that's what I'd have been looking at.
Out of interest RR how do you find the noise on yours?
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RedRobin, out of interest what pads are you running in yours and how do you find the noise?
....I'm still running the original Ferodo DS2500 pads which AP fitted my 4-pots with. Squealing is usually associated with bedding-in. I didn't get much squealing but I did experience some rattling and rubbing of the VW cover plate on tight roundabouts, but this was easily stopped.
I've covered a huge distance on my pads, something like well over 25,000 miles, but my style of driving is usually light on brake use. Braking points on approaching familiar roundabouts are greatly reduced - To the extent that I have embarrassed myself more than once by braking hard and then having to get back on the throttle to reach the roundabout!
I use a combination of shifting down the gears and braking and that also means I'm in the right gear for a fast exit - Many a time has someone been all over my tail approaching a roundabout but a small image in my rearview mirror on the exit and they usually stop bullying me subsequently. The Quaife helps.
Yes, the VW stock brakes are very good....Until you've experienced others! One difference I enjoy is the far better pedal 'feel' and response.
:happy2:
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The Daddy of pads! They do everything you ask of them :happy2:
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The Daddy of pads! They do everything you ask of them :happy2:
....They certainly do!
I have never driven my GTI on track, so I can't comment about the AP's in that environment (except that I've read and heard only praise), but on an empty German autobahn I went to the middle lane, held 130 mph (GPS not speedo) and braked hard. They shaved my speed right down to around 70 mph in what seemed like a split-second - Awesome and without any side movement etc whatsoever - Totally stable!
I'm sure that both Hurdy's Tarox and VWR's offerings will perform the same. It's what's expected at this level and it's that standard of brakes which is needed for a Stage 2 GTI/Ed30 in my opinion.
I'd rather have good brakes and not need them, than need them and not have them! :driver:
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I'm sure that both Hurdy's Tarox and VWR's offerings will perform the same. It's what's expected at this level and it's that standard of brakes which is needed for a Stage 2 GTI/Ed30 in my opinion.
I'd rather have good brakes and not need them, than need them and not have them! :driver:
100% agree Robin :happy2:
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I'll 3rd that.
Plus, with good big brake kits you'll generaly see around half of your money or more back when you come to sell them. Although I've got everything crossed they'll fit on a MKVI..
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I'll 3rd that.
That goes without saying really.
Plus, with good big brake kits you'll generaly see around half of your money or more back when you come to sell them. Although I've got everything crossed they'll fit on a MKVI..
I would expect they will - fingers crossed a lot of bits do - wheels etc.
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Remember its not always how quick you can stop though :driver:
No its often how quick can the guy behind me stop!
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The Porsche/ECS ones are just for show, I wouldn't touch them.
You would think that calipers designed to stop a 2 ton SUV would be good on the GTI.
Is there any reason to you saying they are just for show, as I was thinking about this set up :happy2:
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The Porsche/ECS ones are just for show, I wouldn't touch them.
You would think that calipers designed to stop a 2 ton SUV would be good on the GTI.
Is there any reason to you saying they are just for show, as I was thinking about this set up :happy2:
It's the main reason the Cayenne weighs 2 tons :grin:
Seriously though the ECS/Porsche calipers don't give anything like the progressive feel of the TAROX's, AP's, Brembo's etc as they are primarily designed for stopping a 2 ton SUV. The one's I tried were either on or off and made for a very jerky, unstable and non-inspiring drive. Don't get me wrong, they do stop you - just don't expect the same feel as GTI designed stoppers. :xmassmiley:
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The Porsche/ECS ones are just for show, I wouldn't touch them.
You would think that calipers designed to stop a 2 ton SUV would be good on the GTI.
Is there any reason to you saying they are just for show, as I was thinking about this set up :happy2:
It's the main reason the Cayenne weighs 2 tons :grin:
Seriously though the ECS/Porsche calipers don't give anything like the progressive feel of the TAROX's, AP's, Brembo's etc as they are primarily designed for stopping a 2 ton SUV. The one's I tried were either on or off and made for a very jerky, unstable and non-inspiring drive. Don't get me wrong, they do stop you - just don't expect the same feel as GTI designed stoppers. :xmassmiley:
Thanks for that, I will cross them of the list. It has to be the Alcon's then. :happy2:
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just to add my thoughts, for fast road use the r32 set up with proper pads are a bargain!
i have found them nothing but fantastic and for the price you cant go wrong. i have driven my car hard on numerous occasions now and i really cant fault them. i am yet to experience any suggestion of fade either
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Hurdy's got it in one - we're talking about something that stops a giant SUV, so on a Golf they're either off or on and the master cylinder isn't up to the job, which is a shame as they got it so right with the MKIV's Boxter based set up. There's also the issue of using a minimum 15mm spacer, the first compression corner and you're shedding the wing. The track is bigger on the front as it is, so that's not making it any better and there's also possible wheel bearing issues in the long term.
If you look at it, they simply haven't been well thought out in terms of anything other than looking the part. They don't function as a viable upgrade.
Alcons are superb and loved by the Scooby lot, they're rare on the MKV and pads can be tricky to get hold of - but certainly on par with APs. Speak to EARS Motorsport in Macclesfield, they'll generally do them 10% off list. www.ears.co.uk
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There's also the issue of using a minimum 15mm spacer, the first compression corner and you're shedding the wing. The track is bigger on the front as it is, so that's not making it any better and there's also possible wheel bearing issues in the long term.
If you look at it, they simply haven't been well thought out in terms of anything other than looking the part. They don't function as a viable upgrade.
....We all love to look cool, but why is it that too many folks give priority to the looks over the function. This applies to both brakes and suspension. Surely only a fool will give priority to the looks.
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These seem like a good price
http://www.vag-tuner.com/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2evag%2dtuner%2ecom%2facatalog%2findex%2ehtml&WD=alcon&PN=Race_Brakes%2ehtml%23a1977#a1977
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Very good price indeed!.. I bet you'd get a bit more off if you asked too.
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been looking at the alcon's too, only prob they are not red and would like to keep as oem as poss, but 4 pots for that price... am off to regal tomo to get a few bits fitted anyway, so will see if they like to barter :xmaslaugh:
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I like the fact that the Alcons are race proven.
http://www.vag-tuner.com/acatalog/Race_Car.html
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^^ im put off the Alcons as they caused no end of problems on the Racing pumas, and needed regular servicing etc, they have probably changed these days but still :sad:
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I seem to remember Regal ran Alcons on their MKV VW Cup car - ask them honestly how much, if any trouble they were?
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was there today and they swear by them used on mk5s and vxr's, according to their chap the set on the mk5 cup car have not needed any replacement parts since they were put on and has been through 2 seasons, 10 races per season so most be tough