Post by: Kai96 on April 19, 2017, 11:51:44 am
Just sharing this encase anybody hasn't seen it. What do you think ? Good news or to harsh ?
Be careful out there everybody :happy2:
Post by: ady-uk on April 19, 2017, 01:19:33 pm
built up housing areas, especially passing schools etc. Fully supported!
motorways etc, should be like german autobhans.
No limit but keep it sensible.... crash being reckless and you're is big sh*t!
Post by: rich83 on April 19, 2017, 01:27:14 pm
Post by: Paradox1 on April 19, 2017, 01:38:31 pm
setting these stricter speed regulations will just cause people to jump on there brakes suddenly and cause a pile up.. theres already too many cars on the road. speed up the traffic and problem solved
Post by: pudding on April 19, 2017, 02:03:24 pm
I heard about it, unnecessary tbh and too harsh. So people struggle to make ends meet, picture if they were late for work got caught going 2 mph over, and then lost 50% of that weeks wage now they might miss a car or mortgage payment.
Ridiculous just the government wanting more money, I wouldn't worry about paying it if it was going to the NHS or Armed Forces, but it'll be spent on MP expenses and the dole...
We all need to be on our best behavior on Monday then, because you can guarantee the scamera vans will be out in force!
Is it fair? In part, yes, because the more irresponsible and frivolous with the gas pedal you are, the more you should pay if you get caught. We are adults after all and should be well up to speed on the consequences of our actions by now, but why should Mr Bob Astard rich playboy pay the same 60 quid fines as the rest of us for doing 456mph on the M1? It was exactly that kind of disparity that forced the middle classes out of 250K homes in the early 2000s because 3% stamp duty was a lot to them, but feck all to a millionaire.
This country has cried out for hitting the rich harder for decades, and well, here it is folks, the beginning of it. Be careful what you wish for :smiley:
The unfair part of it is the 'squeezed middle classes' as you've alluded to there. Which is annoying because statistically the biggest offenders usually have no, or a very low, income. Car thieves, no insurance, that kind of thing. Try getting 150% of jack schitt out of someone on the dole. "You, yes you, the middle class Mr Smiths of this world, you are dutifully paying your taxes and keeping this crappily governed country afloat, but f'ck you very much, you broke the speed limit, so we'll just help ourselves to your bank account, thanks. We don't care if your kids can't eat this week as a result, but we'll keep paying for Mr Steven Cumbag's SKY box and mobile phone, and he doesn't have to pay any fines for doing 100 in a 30 because he has no income".
Sucks hairy arse but don't let the establishment suck the joy out of your lives. Nothing much will change, just have to keep your eyes peeled for five O and scamera vans.
Back to standard or Stage 1s for us lot then folks :grin:
Post by: pudding on April 19, 2017, 02:09:26 pm
Post by: willni on April 19, 2017, 02:12:57 pm
We all need to be on our best behavior on Monday then, because you can guarantee the scamera vans will be out in force!
Is it fair? In part, yes, because the more irresponsible and frivolous with the gas pedal you are, the more you should pay if you get caught. We are adults after all and should be well up to speed on the consequences of our actions by now, but why should Mr Bob Astard rich playboy pay the same 60 quid fines as the rest of us for doing 456mph on the M1? It was exactly that kind of disparity that forced the middle classes out of 250K homes in the early 2000s because 3% stamp duty was a lot to them, but feck all to a millionaire.
This country has cried out for hitting the rich harder for decades, and well, here it is folks, the beginning of it. Be careful what you wish for :smiley:
The unfair part of it is the 'squeezed middle classes' as you've alluded to there. Which is annoying because statistically the biggest offenders usually have no, or a very low, income. Car thieves, no insurance, that kind of thing. Try getting 150% of jack schitt out of someone on the dole. "You, yes you, the middle class Mr Smiths of this world, you are dutifully paying your taxes and keeping this crappily governed country afloat, but f'ck you very much, you broke the speed limit, so we'll just help ourselves to your bank account, thanks. We don't care if your kids can't eat this week as a result, but we'll keep paying for Mr Steven Cumbag's SKY box and mobile phone, and he doesn't have to pay any fines for doing 100 in a 30 because he has no income".
Sucks hairy arse but don't let the establishment suck the joy out of your lives. Nothing much will change, just have to keep your eyes peeled for five O and scamera vans.
Back to standard or Stage 1s for us lot then folks :grin:
Back to 1 litre 60 bhp fiestas! But the unfairness is more than that as many on the dole live better lives that those that go out to work, I'm sure you've seen the same articles in the papers time and time again. Maybe we should all riot and get a free tv to make us all feel better :signLOL:
Is the fine based on gross or net income?
I'd imagine net, but it's the government so probably gross to get more out of us
Post by: Tommihayes on April 19, 2017, 02:31:41 pm
... Mr Bob Astard & Mr Steven Cumbag...
That's really cheered up my first day back at work after Easter! :laugh:
Post by: pudding on April 19, 2017, 02:40:43 pm
We all need to be on our best behavior on Monday then, because you can guarantee the scamera vans will be out in force!
Is it fair? In part, yes, because the more irresponsible and frivolous with the gas pedal you are, the more you should pay if you get caught. We are adults after all and should be well up to speed on the consequences of our actions by now, but why should Mr Bob Astard rich playboy pay the same 60 quid fines as the rest of us for doing 456mph on the M1? It was exactly that kind of disparity that forced the middle classes out of 250K homes in the early 2000s because 3% stamp duty was a lot to them, but feck all to a millionaire.
This country has cried out for hitting the rich harder for decades, and well, here it is folks, the beginning of it. Be careful what you wish for :smiley:
The unfair part of it is the 'squeezed middle classes' as you've alluded to there. Which is annoying because statistically the biggest offenders usually have no, or a very low, income. Car thieves, no insurance, that kind of thing. Try getting 150% of jack schitt out of someone on the dole. "You, yes you, the middle class Mr Smiths of this world, you are dutifully paying your taxes and keeping this crappily governed country afloat, but f'ck you very much, you broke the speed limit, so we'll just help ourselves to your bank account, thanks. We don't care if your kids can't eat this week as a result, but we'll keep paying for Mr Steven Cumbag's SKY box and mobile phone, and he doesn't have to pay any fines for doing 100 in a 30 because he has no income".
Sucks hairy arse but don't let the establishment suck the joy out of your lives. Nothing much will change, just have to keep your eyes peeled for five O and scamera vans.
Back to standard or Stage 1s for us lot then folks :grin:
Back to 1 litre 60 bhp fiestas! But the unfairness is more than that as many on the dole live better lives that those that go out to work, I'm sure you've seen the same articles in the papers time and time again. Maybe we should all riot and get a free tv to make us all feel better :signLOL:Is the fine based on gross or net income?
I'd imagine net, but it's the government so probably gross to get more out of us
I don't read the papers or watch the news. Too much negativity, sensationalism, propaganda and flat out lies - all engineered to cause civil unrest. Ignorance is bliss I say :happy2:
I can quite believe it though. Someone earning millions only has to pay 5% more income tax than the squeezed middle, and the same basic NI rate. And the tax they do pay is minimal because of the fancy accountants they employ to exploit the loopholes that our government are too spineless to close.
So yeah, the middle classes get royally f'cked over and I don't really want to see it glorified and sensationalised on the news. Especially considering that famous Televised Benefits family from Ipswich are only 1 mile from where I live. Yep, the rather immoral family who churned out 9 kids deliberately in order to get the benefits. Ipswich council willingly gave them a 5 bed detached house, paid for their kids to have bikes, pet fish, plus all the other niceties of life that the rest of us scrimp and save for.
It's hard to ignore, but we have to ignore it.....and just console ourselves in the fact we are decent human beings who are upstanding with good morals. The benefit thieving pond scum can hang out in their grotty little ghettos and kill each other off for all I care.
Post by: willni on April 19, 2017, 02:47:01 pm
I don't read the papers or watch the news. Too much negativity, sensationalism, propaganda and flat out lies - all engineered to cause civil unrest. Ignorance is bliss I say :happy2:
I can quite believe it though. Someone earning millions only has to pay 5% more income tax than the squeezed middle, and the same basic NI rate. And the tax they do pay is minimal because of the fancy accountants they employ to exploit the loopholes that our government are too spineless to close.
So yeah, the middle classes get royally f'cked over and I don't really want to see it glorified and sensationalised on the news. Especially considering that famous Televised Benefits family from Ipswich are only 1 mile from where I live. Yep, the rather immoral family who churned out 9 kids deliberately in order to get the benefits. Ipswich council willingly gave them a 5 bed detached house, paid for their kids to have bikes, pet fish, plus all the other niceties of life that the rest of us scrimp and save for.
It's hard to ignore, but we have to ignore it.....and just console ourselves in the fact we are decent human beings who are upstanding with good morals. The benefit thieving pond scum can hang out in their grotty little ghettos and kill each other off for all I care.
I'm not decent or morally upstanding I'm going to go into their house and make a sandwich or watch tv and can soundly say I and millions of others paid for this, I'm going to use it.
Or else I want a name plaque with my name on it over a couple of fixed potholes :signLOL:
Post by: Juliand on April 19, 2017, 04:30:18 pm
Depends how 'relevant income' is defined. Same offence = same fine. What's income got to do with it?
Encourages driving without plates.....perhaps
A few thoughts
Post by: irish_ram on April 19, 2017, 04:49:47 pm
These are some hefty fines and supposed to deter people speeding a bit like the mobile phone use which the higher fines now but I do think it will work. However with such hefty fines then maybe they should introduce a 3 strike rule or something as giving out some of these fines on 1st offense is very steep indeed.
My own opinion is whether I agree with the fines and points or not, if I get caught speeding and have to pay one of these fines and get the points then it is my own fault and no one else to blame. For me to blame the law makers it is like seeing a fire ahead that someone else put there but still walking into it when i could easily avoid and then blaming the guy who started it :stupid:
But speeding I agree is not the worst killer on roads and there are no laws out there to protect us fully aware drivers from the moronic idiots who cannot seem to grasp the simple task of driving and doing several things at once. I mean things like not indicating, driving slow, middle lane hogging, these are all just as dangerous as speeding in certain circumstances but you do not get anyone hauled over for it and fined :confused:
Post by: loop on April 19, 2017, 04:56:22 pm
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Post by: AJP on April 19, 2017, 05:03:27 pm
No mention of speed awareness courses? Always better than points + fine!They cost the government money, rather than make the government money. There's your answer.
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Post by: Juliand on April 19, 2017, 06:48:55 pm
No mention of speed awareness courses? Always better than points + fine!They cost the government money, rather than make the government money. There's your answer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Are you sure? 30 people on a course@circa £100 =£3,000.....Venue hire and tutor fees no where near £3,000.... So where does the difference go??
Post by: AJP on April 19, 2017, 07:05:16 pm
Well, it was an assumption (based on me being a cynic). You're probably right. It's a choice of course or points isn't it, and the fine's compulsory?No mention of speed awareness courses? Always better than points + fine!They cost the government money, rather than make the government money. There's your answer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Are you sure? 30 people on a course@circa £100 =£3,000.....Venue hire and tutor fees no where near £3,000.... So where does the difference go??
Are we saying the Speed Awareness courses are being scrapped then..? If I'm being less cynical, I'd like to think they did stop some drivers from driving like idiots.
Post by: leebes on April 19, 2017, 07:16:40 pm
Post by: Shamm on April 19, 2017, 07:18:21 pm
Post by: AJP on April 19, 2017, 07:37:44 pm
Am i right or wrong. What iv heard is that you ar allowed to do 10% about the limit i.e 30mph you can do no more then 33mph?My understanding is that this was/is never officially declared by the Police; kind of an unwritten rule. I've also heard that different forces across the country had different 'tolerances'.
It stands to reason. A traffic cop should be allowed to use discretion, reasonably, and the 10% thing was a guideline to keep the discretion consistent. That's my take on it anyway. There aren't enough coppers in the country to pull everyone doing 65mph in a 60. Certainly not these days.
I bet if you actually got pulled doing 65mph in a 60, and tried to plead the 10% rule, you'd get a blank, sour face from the copper.
Post by: Adam0604 on April 19, 2017, 07:48:57 pm
Post by: dansmith180 on April 19, 2017, 08:13:20 pm
Post by: willni on April 19, 2017, 09:33:58 pm
Am i right or wrong. What iv heard is that you ar allowed to do 10% about the limit i.e 30mph you can do no more then 33mph?My understanding is that this was/is never officially declared by the Police; kind of an unwritten rule. I've also heard that different forces across the country had different 'tolerances'.
It stands to reason. A traffic cop should be allowed to use discretion, reasonably, and the 10% thing was a guideline to keep the discretion consistent. That's my take on it anyway. There aren't enough coppers in the country to pull everyone doing 65mph in a 60. Certainly not these days.
I bet if you actually got pulled doing 65mph in a 60, and tried to plead the 10% rule, you'd get a blank, sour face from the copper.
Over here in NI they scrapped the 10% rule, but instead let the officers use their discretion, which is really a shot in the dark, you'll get some nice and some that want to inflict everything. It's not the points etc people are worried about it's the income since the average family is about 2.5 kids say 3 in this case, one of the parents just laid off struggling to make ends meets, 3 children still in dependent age. Weekly wage and savings won't go long especially if one were caught speeding.
I'm not against fines, or the proportionate fines but there's bound to be a better way like mandatory community service, everyone is equal there even those on the dole, but you're not taking away from hard working families having a hard stint.
Post by: AJP on April 19, 2017, 09:43:32 pm
Completely agree that being ordered to put something back in, as in community service, rather than something being forced from you, like a fine (equivalent to an MP's brunch bill) that cripples a family, is the best way to go.Am i right or wrong. What iv heard is that you ar allowed to do 10% about the limit i.e 30mph you can do no more then 33mph?My understanding is that this was/is never officially declared by the Police; kind of an unwritten rule. I've also heard that different forces across the country had different 'tolerances'.
It stands to reason. A traffic cop should be allowed to use discretion, reasonably, and the 10% thing was a guideline to keep the discretion consistent. That's my take on it anyway. There aren't enough coppers in the country to pull everyone doing 65mph in a 60. Certainly not these days.
I bet if you actually got pulled doing 65mph in a 60, and tried to plead the 10% rule, you'd get a blank, sour face from the copper.
Over here in NI they scrapped the 10% rule, but instead let the officers use their discretion, which is really a shot in the dark, you'll get some nice and some that want to inflict everything. It's not the points etc people are worried about it's the income since the average family is about 2.5 kids say 3 in this case, one of the parents just laid off struggling to make ends meets, 3 children still in dependent age. Weekly wage and savings won't go long especially if one were caught speeding.
I'm not against fines, or the proportionate fines but there's bound to be a better way like mandatory community service, everyone is equal there even those on the dole, but you're not taking away from hard working families having a hard stint.
We'll try not to veer into left/right politics here though guys.
Post by: Wolf Burger on April 19, 2017, 10:32:08 pm
HOWEVER
M1 Motorway J27 to J29 Northbound.
Slow cars from the National speed limit to restricted limits just because speed cameras are there is ridiculous!
Cash camera folly.
Post by: willni on April 19, 2017, 10:37:30 pm
Completely agree that being ordered to put something back in, as in community service, rather than something being forced from you, like a fine (equivalent to an MP's brunch bill) that cripples a family, is the best way to go.
We'll try not to veer into left/right politics here though guys.
True, think everyone would like to see people doing community service and actually helping, rather than kak sculptures and other peoples pockets.
Side note to try and lighten this topic - In Canada police forces issue positive reinforcement to people following the law such as eg a free donut or ice cream. (I actually do think Canada is very well run, but I'm sure it's different if you live there)
Post by: Richie-VRS on April 20, 2017, 06:17:20 am
Going by this new set of punishments I'd be better off in a situation like that?
Post by: Gary on April 20, 2017, 12:16:44 pm
I wonder if in Scotland over 100 is still considered dangerous driving. I got caught over 100mph years ago and got the minimum sentence of a 1yr ban and £300 fine.
Going by this new set of punishments I'd be better off in a situation like that?
In that situation, over a hundred would be classed as dangerous driving or potnetially culpable and reckless, therefore not a speeding offence, so that proportionate fining wouldn't apply.
Post by: flashp on April 20, 2017, 02:23:59 pm
Whoever came up with this needs to f*ck right off. Driving fast does not cause accidents.Agreed, it's the misuse of speed rather than the application. Erratic driving is far more dangerous.
However, being devils advocate, I suppose they have limited means to control the bell ends. I named last Monday 'Plank Holiday Monday'.
And don't even start on mobile phones........those new laws have made zero impact IMO.
So in fact, yes, FEK OFF! :laugh:
Post by: AJP on April 20, 2017, 03:46:15 pm
Agreed too.Whoever came up with this needs to f*ck right off. Driving fast does not cause accidents.Agreed, it's the misuse of speed rather than the application. Erratic driving is far more dangerous.
However, being devils advocate, I suppose they have limited means to control the bell ends. I named last Monday 'Plank Holiday Monday'.
And don't even start on mobile phones........those new laws have made zero impact IMO.
So in fact, yes, FEK OFF!
However, I can't see things changing. Penalising speed, rather than nobbery itself, is apparently the most effective means of reducing danger, when:
Nobbery x Speed = Danger
How can they reduce or penalise nobbery, short of completely redesigning the driving test and euthanizing 60% of the country's drivers?
Cameras can't detect nobbery, but they sure can detect speed.
I'm not saying it's right, or fair. It's just how it is, unfortunately.
So theoretically, if you eradicate nobbery, you eradicate all danger. If you eradicate speed, you only eradicate danger when nobbery is also part of the equation. Therefore, nobbery is the problem, not speed.
Nobbery.
Post by: pudding on April 20, 2017, 04:28:36 pm
Adults are no different to school kids. We persistently push our luck until teacher steps in and disciplines us. The discipline for our apathy and complete disregard for the law as adults will come in the form of mandatory dashcams. Forward, rear and driver facing. Mark my words :smiley:
Post by: AJP on April 20, 2017, 06:22:43 pm
Dashcams detect nobbery.I hope I've grown old of fast cars by that point
Adults are no different to school kids. We persistently push our luck until teacher steps in and disciplines us. The discipline for our apathy and complete disregard for the law as adults will come in the form of mandatory dashcams. Forward, rear and driver facing. Mark my words :smiley:
Post by: Richie-VRS on April 20, 2017, 06:56:56 pm
I wonder if in Scotland over 100 is still considered dangerous driving. I got caught over 100mph years ago and got the minimum sentence of a 1yr ban and £300 fine.
Going by this new set of punishments I'd be better off in a situation like that?
In that situation, over a hundred would be classed as dangerous driving or potnetially culpable and reckless, therefore not a speeding offence, so that proportionate fining wouldn't apply.
So why have a fine category for over 100mph? Doesn't really make sense if it's automatically considered dangerous driving.
Post by: romprod on April 20, 2017, 07:36:06 pm
There's always a scenario where a more experienced driver, driving a faster car at faster speeds would be safer than a gran in a 30yr old Kia in a 40mph limit. Which I don't agree with.
I reckon just sticking to the limits in the capable car with the experienced driver would help mankind. We all think we're Colin McDonald but obviously the idiots with no experience in the sh*te car would still do what they want regardless and get banned quickly anyway.
Surely the less people driving around at excessive speeds is one of the quickest/easiest/cheapest ways to prevent accidents.
Post by: rich83 on April 20, 2017, 08:29:35 pm
Post by: willni on April 20, 2017, 10:39:39 pm
Dashcams detect nobbery.
Adults are no different to school kids. We persistently push our luck until teacher steps in and disciplines us. The discipline for our apathy and complete disregard for the law as adults will come in the form of mandatory dashcams. Forward, rear and driver facing. Mark my words :smiley:
Speaking of nobbery on the motorway guy in front wouldn't pull over into the travel lane with me and other waiting behind, I flash the lights after 2 miles (try to give him time to realise himself) he then refuses to pull over so I "allegedly" undertake him, upon which he tries to speed up to not let me past...If I were in a volvo I would've mad maxed it and rammed him off the road or if I were American Police there would be no more Mr Mazda...
Post by: pudding on April 21, 2017, 09:42:54 am
Dashcams detect nobbery.I hope I've grown old of fast cars by that point
Adults are no different to school kids. We persistently push our luck until teacher steps in and disciplines us. The discipline for our apathy and complete disregard for the law as adults will come in the form of mandatory dashcams. Forward, rear and driver facing. Mark my words :smiley:
Haha, that will never happen! The only thing that changes as you get older is your arsedness to work on cars, but you will always love speed!
Do some research of autobahns accident rate vs ours
The Germans have a different attitude towards driving than we do, which is why derestricted roads work over there. They definitely wouldn’t work over here.
Dashcams detect nobbery.
Adults are no different to school kids. We persistently push our luck until teacher steps in and disciplines us. The discipline for our apathy and complete disregard for the law as adults will come in the form of mandatory dashcams. Forward, rear and driver facing. Mark my words :smiley:
Speaking of nobbery on the motorway guy in front wouldn't pull over into the travel lane with me and other waiting behind, I flash the lights after 2 miles (try to give him time to realise himself) he then refuses to pull over so I "allegedly" undertake him, upon which he tries to speed up to not let me past...If I were in a volvo I would've mad maxed it and rammed him off the road or if I were American Police there would be no more Mr Mazda...
I reckon I perform 5 or 6 undertakes to and from work every day. As above, it’s all about attitudes, and they suck in the UK.
Post by: Tazocin on April 21, 2017, 06:33:44 pm
Dont hold out much hope though, we seem to have suffered underfunding in every publicly managed service these last few years - NHS, police, roads etc
Post by: Scoobykiller on April 24, 2017, 09:38:04 am
Everybidy has different size wheels tyres etc ....
Post by: pudding on April 24, 2017, 09:57:15 am
Post by: r5gtt on April 25, 2017, 01:40:06 am
Post by: Juliand on April 25, 2017, 08:12:21 am
Speedos are as said calibrated differently but what gets me wound up is if you do 21 mph in a 20 31 in a 30 and so forth you will get fined and points :thinking: what kind of ***kery is this :stupid:
My understanding is that the 10% + 2 MPH trigger point will still apply....so for a 30MPH speed limit, the trigger for fines and points is 35MPH and over. It's only the fines that are changing. This margin is to allow for tolerances in speedo's and equipment.........Unless anyone know any different?
Post by: pudding on April 25, 2017, 10:46:57 am
Speedos are as said calibrated differently but what gets me wound up is if you do 21 mph in a 20 31 in a 30 and so forth you will get fined and points :thinking: what kind of ***kery is this :stupid:
My understanding is that the 10% + 2 MPH trigger point will still apply....so for a 30MPH speed limit, the trigger for fines and points is 35MPH and over. It's only the fines that are changing. This margin is to allow for tolerances in speedo's and equipment.........Unless anyone know any different?
Yep, that's how it's always been. A Racelogic V-Box is the only way to know the true mph. Probably more accurate than the Police radar guns :grin:
Post by: r5gtt on April 25, 2017, 10:54:23 pm
im just going by what this shows with regards going over the limit of 20-30-40 etc by 1mphSpeedos are as said calibrated differently but what gets me wound up is if you do 21 mph in a 20 31 in a 30 and so forth you will get fined and points :thinking: what kind of ***kery is this :stupid:
My understanding is that the 10% + 2 MPH trigger point will still apply....so for a 30MPH speed limit, the trigger for fines and points is 35MPH and over. It's only the fines that are changing. This margin is to allow for tolerances in speedo's and equipment.........Unless anyone know any different?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1374.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag433%2FSandy1786%2FIMG_6503.png&hash=b8ad0580c5025f4dd332f0e5c73081c60e280847)
Post by: pudding on April 26, 2017, 09:50:58 am
Post by: r5gtt on April 26, 2017, 02:18:14 pm
That's just the speeding range and will be discretionary. They can't put "35 - 40" because people will just think 35 is fair game and drive at that speed all the time. No one is going to be prosecuted for doing 31mph.lol I hope so as I've been doing strict speeds now this s**** law has come out