MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: reflexsilverfox on April 21, 2017, 10:00:01 am
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Hi all, after some opinions/advice on making my car feel new again and improving it to kind of OEM+ standard.
here's some background, so far i've fitted the following:
Ramair panel filter
DV+
cam follower
R revision PCV
Super pro dogbone insert
TT console bushes
new tie rods and track rod ends
4x new Avon ZV7's
Suspension is my main priority at the minute, i've ordered the ST fixed height kit (20mm drop) http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performance/suspension-kits/car/volkswagen/golf-mk5-gti/st-suspension-sport-suspension-kit-lowers-front-20mm-lowers-rear-20mm
i've also ordered new rear trailing arms with new oem bushes as my rear camber and toe needs adjusting but they won't adjust as they're seized.
My plan is to fit the new rear trailing arms and bushes along with the top mounts and the new shocks and springs and then get it all 4 wheel aligned, is there anything else people would recommend me changing suspension-wise while its getting the rest fitted? Or just general advice on upgrades to compliment what i've got/doing?
Thanks :popcornsoda:
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Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
sounds like you have a really good setup, similar to what i'm aiming for!
I was going to go for the VWR kit but chose the ST in the end as it was the same drop and sounded very similar but was cheaper and available on 0% :evilgrin:, hopefully it will be as good although there isnt a huge amount of info around on the ST kit.
I've only recently read about using the B6 arms to save unsprung weight otherwise i would have gone for those too, whats the advantages of the B6 ball joints?
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
sounds like you have a really good setup, similar to what i'm aiming for!
I was going to go for the VWR kit but chose the ST in the end as it was the same drop and sounded very similar but was cheaper and available on 0% :evilgrin:, hopefully it will be as good although there isnt a huge amount of info around on the ST kit.
I've only recently read about using the B6 arms to save unsprung weight otherwise i would have gone for those too, whats the advantages of the B6 ball joints?
ST are one of the few brands that use KW dampers, which for me are a decent mid-range damper (before you get up to the money of the Clubsport options). You should get a good setup with the ST kit, especially as you say it's only dropping the car 20mm. It's nice to maintain a bit of travel in the suspension.
If you could aim for something like Pudding's setup overall, you'll be happy. I like the sound of what he's done.
When you get it aligned - if you didn't know already - try and find a place with a Hunter setup. What one garage calls alignment might not be the full setup you want ideally.
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
sounds like you have a really good setup, similar to what i'm aiming for!
I was going to go for the VWR kit but chose the ST in the end as it was the same drop and sounded very similar but was cheaper and available on 0% :evilgrin:, hopefully it will be as good although there isnt a huge amount of info around on the ST kit.
I've only recently read about using the B6 arms to save unsprung weight otherwise i would have gone for those too, whats the advantages of the B6 ball joints?
ST are one of the few brands that use KW dampers, which for me are a decent mid-range damper (before you get up to the money of the Clubsport options). You should get a good setup with the ST kit, especially as you say it's only dropping the car 20mm. It's nice to maintain a bit of travel in the suspension.
If you could aim for something like Pudding's setup overall, you'll be happy. I like the sound of what he's done.
When you get it aligned - if you didn't know already - try and find a place with a Hunter setup. What one garage calls alignment might not be the full setup you want ideally.
That's great thank you for the info, i'd heard that KW made the dampers for the ST kit so thought they should be pretty reasonable.
With regards to alignment i've had the front done already at protyre as when i changed the tie rods and track rod ends it was way out after (had a bit of a nightmare changing them as i had to do it twice, eurocarparts sent me the wrong ones) i think it's a proper setup they have there - its a laser setup and they did me a proper print off with all the camber and toe info for all four wheels.
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
sounds like you have a really good setup, similar to what i'm aiming for!
I was going to go for the VWR kit but chose the ST in the end as it was the same drop and sounded very similar but was cheaper and available on 0% :evilgrin:, hopefully it will be as good although there isnt a huge amount of info around on the ST kit.
I've only recently read about using the B6 arms to save unsprung weight otherwise i would have gone for those too, whats the advantages of the B6 ball joints?
ST are one of the few brands that use KW dampers, which for me are a decent mid-range damper (before you get up to the money of the Clubsport options). You should get a good setup with the ST kit, especially as you say it's only dropping the car 20mm. It's nice to maintain a bit of travel in the suspension.
If you could aim for something like Pudding's setup overall, you'll be happy. I like the sound of what he's done.
When you get it aligned - if you didn't know already - try and find a place with a Hunter setup. What one garage calls alignment might not be the full setup you want ideally.
That's great thank you for the info, i'd heard that KW made the dampers for the ST kit so thought they should be pretty reasonable.
With regards to alignment i've had the front done already at protyre as when i changed the tie rods and track rod ends it was way out after (had a bit of a nightmare changing them as i had to do it twice, eurocarparts sent me the wrong ones) i think it's a proper setup they have there - its a laser setup and they did me a proper print off with all the camber and toe info for all four wheels.
You'll probably want to get it all checked again front and back as a matter of course, once you've got everything fitted. Things shift around when you're changing parts and dropping the ride height.
Yeah the dampers should serve you well. Running them at the intended height will give them the best chance of performing properly and not wearing prematurely. 20mm is mild.
I was on standard (probably original) dampers with 30mm H&R springs for a while, and I could tell recently the dampers just weren't doing what they should. Just gone onto a Vogtland coilover kit (again, KW dampers), and while it's firmer overall it's a smoother ride. It feels like everything's in control rather than being a bit fidgety and vague.
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
sounds like you have a really good setup, similar to what i'm aiming for!
I was going to go for the VWR kit but chose the ST in the end as it was the same drop and sounded very similar but was cheaper and available on 0% :evilgrin:, hopefully it will be as good although there isnt a huge amount of info around on the ST kit.
I've only recently read about using the B6 arms to save unsprung weight otherwise i would have gone for those too, whats the advantages of the B6 ball joints?
ST are one of the few brands that use KW dampers, which for me are a decent mid-range damper (before you get up to the money of the Clubsport options). You should get a good setup with the ST kit, especially as you say it's only dropping the car 20mm. It's nice to maintain a bit of travel in the suspension.
If you could aim for something like Pudding's setup overall, you'll be happy. I like the sound of what he's done.
When you get it aligned - if you didn't know already - try and find a place with a Hunter setup. What one garage calls alignment might not be the full setup you want ideally.
That's great thank you for the info, i'd heard that KW made the dampers for the ST kit so thought they should be pretty reasonable.
With regards to alignment i've had the front done already at protyre as when i changed the tie rods and track rod ends it was way out after (had a bit of a nightmare changing them as i had to do it twice, eurocarparts sent me the wrong ones) i think it's a proper setup they have there - its a laser setup and they did me a proper print off with all the camber and toe info for all four wheels.
You'll probably want to get it all checked again front and back as a matter of course, once you've got everything fitted. Things shift around when you're changing parts and dropping the ride height.
Yeah the dampers should serve you well. Running them at the intended height will give them the best chance of performing properly and not wearing prematurely. 20mm is mild.
I was on standard (probably original) dampers with 30mm H&R springs for a while, and I could tell recently the dampers just weren't doing what they should. Just gone onto a Vogtland coilover kit (again, KW dampers), and while it's firmer overall it's a smoother ride. It feels like everything's in control rather than being a bit fidgety and vague.
I did wonder whether that would be the case with getting the front done again when i get the rear aligned - makes sense as you say i'll be changing a lot of parts over.
Good to hear re the dampers, i'm not really fussed on lowering it much at all that's why i went for the 20mm kit with fixed height and fixed damping shocks. a little lower would improve the stance but i'm mainly after a better riding better handling car without losing comfort.
I nearly went for the Vogtland but decided i didn't need coilovers, i saw the pics of yours on the posts though and it sits nice on them :happy2:
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
sounds like you have a really good setup, similar to what i'm aiming for!
I was going to go for the VWR kit but chose the ST in the end as it was the same drop and sounded very similar but was cheaper and available on 0% :evilgrin:, hopefully it will be as good although there isnt a huge amount of info around on the ST kit.
I've only recently read about using the B6 arms to save unsprung weight otherwise i would have gone for those too, whats the advantages of the B6 ball joints?
ST are one of the few brands that use KW dampers, which for me are a decent mid-range damper (before you get up to the money of the Clubsport options). You should get a good setup with the ST kit, especially as you say it's only dropping the car 20mm. It's nice to maintain a bit of travel in the suspension.
If you could aim for something like Pudding's setup overall, you'll be happy. I like the sound of what he's done.
When you get it aligned - if you didn't know already - try and find a place with a Hunter setup. What one garage calls alignment might not be the full setup you want ideally.
That's great thank you for the info, i'd heard that KW made the dampers for the ST kit so thought they should be pretty reasonable.
With regards to alignment i've had the front done already at protyre as when i changed the tie rods and track rod ends it was way out after (had a bit of a nightmare changing them as i had to do it twice, eurocarparts sent me the wrong ones) i think it's a proper setup they have there - its a laser setup and they did me a proper print off with all the camber and toe info for all four wheels.
You'll probably want to get it all checked again front and back as a matter of course, once you've got everything fitted. Things shift around when you're changing parts and dropping the ride height.
Yeah the dampers should serve you well. Running them at the intended height will give them the best chance of performing properly and not wearing prematurely. 20mm is mild.
I was on standard (probably original) dampers with 30mm H&R springs for a while, and I could tell recently the dampers just weren't doing what they should. Just gone onto a Vogtland coilover kit (again, KW dampers), and while it's firmer overall it's a smoother ride. It feels like everything's in control rather than being a bit fidgety and vague.
I did wonder whether that would be the case with getting the front done again when i get the rear aligned - makes sense as you say i'll be changing a lot of parts over.
Good to hear re the dampers, i'm not really fussed on lowering it much at all that's why i went for the 20mm kit with fixed height and fixed damping shocks. a little lower would improve the stance but i'm mainly after a better riding better handling car without losing comfort.
I nearly went for the Vogtland but decided i didn't need coilovers, i saw the pics of yours on the posts though and it sits nice on them :happy2:
Cheers dude. I've actually just been for alignment myself. In an ideal world I'd have put a few more miles on it to let it settle a bit more, but I've got a big journey next week so it was kinda now or not. I might nip it in for a quick check in a few weeks, just make sure it's all as intended!
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
sounds like you have a really good setup, similar to what i'm aiming for!
I was going to go for the VWR kit but chose the ST in the end as it was the same drop and sounded very similar but was cheaper and available on 0% :evilgrin:, hopefully it will be as good although there isnt a huge amount of info around on the ST kit.
I've only recently read about using the B6 arms to save unsprung weight otherwise i would have gone for those too, whats the advantages of the B6 ball joints?
ST are one of the few brands that use KW dampers, which for me are a decent mid-range damper (before you get up to the money of the Clubsport options). You should get a good setup with the ST kit, especially as you say it's only dropping the car 20mm. It's nice to maintain a bit of travel in the suspension.
If you could aim for something like Pudding's setup overall, you'll be happy. I like the sound of what he's done.
When you get it aligned - if you didn't know already - try and find a place with a Hunter setup. What one garage calls alignment might not be the full setup you want ideally.
+1 on a proper 4 wheel laser alignment rig, such as Hunter, or your local dealer. VW charge £90 fixed price for an alignment, which is good value for customers like me who royally fcked it up, meaning more work for them, same price for me :grin:
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
sounds like you have a really good setup, similar to what i'm aiming for!
I was going to go for the VWR kit but chose the ST in the end as it was the same drop and sounded very similar but was cheaper and available on 0% :evilgrin:, hopefully it will be as good although there isnt a huge amount of info around on the ST kit.
I've only recently read about using the B6 arms to save unsprung weight otherwise i would have gone for those too, whats the advantages of the B6 ball joints?
ST are one of the few brands that use KW dampers, which for me are a decent mid-range damper (before you get up to the money of the Clubsport options). You should get a good setup with the ST kit, especially as you say it's only dropping the car 20mm. It's nice to maintain a bit of travel in the suspension.
If you could aim for something like Pudding's setup overall, you'll be happy. I like the sound of what he's done.
When you get it aligned - if you didn't know already - try and find a place with a Hunter setup. What one garage calls alignment might not be the full setup you want ideally.
+1 on a proper 4 wheel laser alignment rig, such as Hunter, or your local dealer. VW charge £90 fixed price for an alignment, which is good value for customers like me who royally fcked it up, meaning more work for them, same price for me :grin:
40 quid folding at Auto Dynamics in Sheff this morning. Full Hunter setup. It's the second time I've used them and I'll stick with them.
Part of the problem isn't just finding a Hunter rig, but people who know what they're doing with one.
The main guy there is really good - calls you in once it's set up, talks you through what's out on the screen, what they're going to do etc.
VW themselves are obviously a safe bet, but a few more quid, as always!
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
sounds like you have a really good setup, similar to what i'm aiming for!
I was going to go for the VWR kit but chose the ST in the end as it was the same drop and sounded very similar but was cheaper and available on 0% :evilgrin:, hopefully it will be as good although there isnt a huge amount of info around on the ST kit.
I've only recently read about using the B6 arms to save unsprung weight otherwise i would have gone for those too, whats the advantages of the B6 ball joints?
The arms only save 1kg mate. It's the hubs (aka bearing housings) that shave off the most weight, but I chose to keep everything Passat and therefore consistent as all those bits were designed to work with each other :happy2:
The advantage of the B6 ball joints you ask? It all hinges around roll center and bump steer. Google those and see if they make any sense to you! It's pretty heavy reading :grin:
This is one of the better diagrams I've seen. The "Roll center adjusters" being the Passat ball joints on our Golfs. The idea is to keep points A & B as close to each other as possible, which reduces the car's tendency to lean into corners.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.meganracing.com%2Fuploadimage%2Fdpage%2F2102011_174145.jpg&hash=3c1d7a2bb37f644c40aba7465ca3ec54cbaf3000)
What I don't think many people realise is lowering a car and doing nothing else actually makes it roll more, not less. Sounds counter intuitive right? Stiffer arbs or springs are often used to counter act it, but a better way is to move the wishbone angles back to factory, which is what roll center correction is all about....and is what the Passat BJs do :happy2: This is why the sensible suspension kits only lower a very small amount as to not fck up the roll center. You then don't need as stiff a spring, or big fat heavy ARBs either :smiley:
Bump steer is when the steering wheel snatches left / right uncontrollably when accelerating hard over bumps, or during turns over bumps (not to be confused with torque steer). The wishbones and tie rods follow an arc, and on lowered cars, the arc can run out of travel and the wishbone to tie rod angles then get skewed. As the hub rises into the wheel arch over a bump, the tie rod has no arc left and gets forced back into the steering rack, which the driver feels as a twitch in the wheel. Nasty stuff. Again, Mr Passat Ball Joint and sensible lowering heights fix that for you :smiley:
At the end of the day, that's all the lovely theory, but if the car doesn't do anything horrible on the road after you've lowered it, you don't need to worry too much. I'm just ultra OCD about that stuff!
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My home scale measured 4 kg for each cast iron front control arm and 2 kg for each aluminium front control arm. For what they cost me (40 € each) I think I made a good upgrade for my unsprung weight at the front. :smiley:
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My home scale measured 4 kg for each cast iron front control arm and 2 kg for each aluminium front control arm. For what they cost me (40 € each) I think I made a good upgrade for my unsprung weight at the front. :smiley:
Technically only half that is unsprung because the inboard end is attached to the subframe, hence 1kg saving at the outboard end :smiley: But 2Kg vs 4Kg is a good saving :happy2:
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This is all awesome info guys thanks very much :happy2:
I must say I'm not completely happy with the cars handling even now the front end is supposedly sorted. I'm hoping it's gunna feel damn pretty good after the new rear lower arms, bushes and the suspension kit with the mounts etc. I'll get some pics when I'm fitting it all and post some before and after pics.
I'm gunna phone around for alignment - protyre seem very good but £30 per adjustment seems steep... £90 for front and rear toe and rear camber.
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
sounds like you have a really good setup, similar to what i'm aiming for!
I was going to go for the VWR kit but chose the ST in the end as it was the same drop and sounded very similar but was cheaper and available on 0% :evilgrin:, hopefully it will be as good although there isnt a huge amount of info around on the ST kit.
I've only recently read about using the B6 arms to save unsprung weight otherwise i would have gone for those too, whats the advantages of the B6 ball joints?
The arms only save 1kg mate. It's the hubs (aka bearing housings) that shave off the most weight, but I chose to keep everything Passat and therefore consistent as all those bits were designed to work with each other :happy2:
The advantage of the B6 ball joints you ask? It all hinges around roll center and bump steer. Google those and see if they make any sense to you! It's pretty heavy reading :grin:
This is one of the better diagrams I've seen. The "Roll center adjusters" being the Passat ball joints on our Golfs. The idea is to keep points A & B as close to each other as possible, which reduces the car's tendency to lean into corners.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.meganracing.com%2Fuploadimage%2Fdpage%2F2102011_174145.jpg&hash=3c1d7a2bb37f644c40aba7465ca3ec54cbaf3000)
What I don't think many people realise is lowering a car and doing nothing else actually makes it roll more, not less. Sounds counter intuitive right? Stiffer arbs or springs are often used to counter act it, but a better way is to move the wishbone angles back to factory, which is what roll center correction is all about....and is what the Passat BJs do :happy2: This is why the sensible suspension kits only lower a very small amount as to not fck up the roll center. You then don't need as stiff a spring, or big fat heavy ARBs either :smiley:
Bump steer is when the steering wheel snatches left / right uncontrollably when accelerating hard over bumps, or during turns over bumps (not to be confused with torque steer). The wishbones and tie rods follow an arc, and on lowered cars, the arc can run out of travel and the wishbone to tie rod angles then get skewed. As the hub rises into the wheel arch over a bump, the tie rod has no arc left and gets forced back into the steering rack, which the driver feels as a twitch in the wheel. Nasty stuff. Again, Mr Passat Ball Joint and sensible lowering heights fix that for you :smiley:
At the end of the day, that's all the lovely theory, but if the car doesn't do anything horrible on the road after you've lowered it, you don't need to worry too much. I'm just ultra OCD about that stuff!
Do you think all of this would come into play with a 20mm drop or did you just change the parts to be on the safe side? I'm pretty OCD too so my list could be growing... :thinking:
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
sounds like you have a really good setup, similar to what i'm aiming for!
I was going to go for the VWR kit but chose the ST in the end as it was the same drop and sounded very similar but was cheaper and available on 0% :evilgrin:, hopefully it will be as good although there isnt a huge amount of info around on the ST kit.
I've only recently read about using the B6 arms to save unsprung weight otherwise i would have gone for those too, whats the advantages of the B6 ball joints?
The arms only save 1kg mate. It's the hubs (aka bearing housings) that shave off the most weight, but I chose to keep everything Passat and therefore consistent as all those bits were designed to work with each other :happy2:
The advantage of the B6 ball joints you ask? It all hinges around roll center and bump steer. Google those and see if they make any sense to you! It's pretty heavy reading :grin:
This is one of the better diagrams I've seen. The "Roll center adjusters" being the Passat ball joints on our Golfs. The idea is to keep points A & B as close to each other as possible, which reduces the car's tendency to lean into corners.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.meganracing.com%2Fuploadimage%2Fdpage%2F2102011_174145.jpg&hash=3c1d7a2bb37f644c40aba7465ca3ec54cbaf3000)
What I don't think many people realise is lowering a car and doing nothing else actually makes it roll more, not less. Sounds counter intuitive right? Stiffer arbs or springs are often used to counter act it, but a better way is to move the wishbone angles back to factory, which is what roll center correction is all about....and is what the Passat BJs do :happy2: This is why the sensible suspension kits only lower a very small amount as to not fck up the roll center. You then don't need as stiff a spring, or big fat heavy ARBs either :smiley:
Bump steer is when the steering wheel snatches left / right uncontrollably when accelerating hard over bumps, or during turns over bumps (not to be confused with torque steer). The wishbones and tie rods follow an arc, and on lowered cars, the arc can run out of travel and the wishbone to tie rod angles then get skewed. As the hub rises into the wheel arch over a bump, the tie rod has no arc left and gets forced back into the steering rack, which the driver feels as a twitch in the wheel. Nasty stuff. Again, Mr Passat Ball Joint and sensible lowering heights fix that for you :smiley:
At the end of the day, that's all the lovely theory, but if the car doesn't do anything horrible on the road after you've lowered it, you don't need to worry too much. I'm just ultra OCD about that stuff!
Do you think all of this would come into play with a 20mm drop or did you just change the parts to be on the safe side? I'm pretty OCD too so my list could be growing... :thinking:
You might find it's more than 20mm mate. That's what the VWR kit is supposed to lower by, but I'd say it's nearer 30-35mm. I can't get my jack under the sill anymore!
The above was an attempt to explain why going lower can have adverse affects, but the drop you and I have done won't impact things drastically. I kept everything Passat for consistency and the ball joints do restore the correct wishbone angle, so it's all good, but not essential :happy2:
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Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
sounds like you have a really good setup, similar to what i'm aiming for!
I was going to go for the VWR kit but chose the ST in the end as it was the same drop and sounded very similar but was cheaper and available on 0% :evilgrin:, hopefully it will be as good although there isnt a huge amount of info around on the ST kit.
I've only recently read about using the B6 arms to save unsprung weight otherwise i would have gone for those too, whats the advantages of the B6 ball joints?
The arms only save 1kg mate. It's the hubs (aka bearing housings) that shave off the most weight, but I chose to keep everything Passat and therefore consistent as all those bits were designed to work with each other :happy2:
The advantage of the B6 ball joints you ask? It all hinges around roll center and bump steer. Google those and see if they make any sense to you! It's pretty heavy reading :grin:
This is one of the better diagrams I've seen. The "Roll center adjusters" being the Passat ball joints on our Golfs. The idea is to keep points A & B as close to each other as possible, which reduces the car's tendency to lean into corners.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.meganracing.com%2Fuploadimage%2Fdpage%2F2102011_174145.jpg&hash=3c1d7a2bb37f644c40aba7465ca3ec54cbaf3000)
What I don't think many people realise is lowering a car and doing nothing else actually makes it roll more, not less. Sounds counter intuitive right? Stiffer arbs or springs are often used to counter act it, but a better way is to move the wishbone angles back to factory, which is what roll center correction is all about....and is what the Passat BJs do :happy2: This is why the sensible suspension kits only lower a very small amount as to not fck up the roll center. You then don't need as stiff a spring, or big fat heavy ARBs either :smiley:
Bump steer is when the steering wheel snatches left / right uncontrollably when accelerating hard over bumps, or during turns over bumps (not to be confused with torque steer). The wishbones and tie rods follow an arc, and on lowered cars, the arc can run out of travel and the wishbone to tie rod angles then get skewed. As the hub rises into the wheel arch over a bump, the tie rod has no arc left and gets forced back into the steering rack, which the driver feels as a twitch in the wheel. Nasty stuff. Again, Mr Passat Ball Joint and sensible lowering heights fix that for you :smiley:
At the end of the day, that's all the lovely theory, but if the car doesn't do anything horrible on the road after you've lowered it, you don't need to worry too much. I'm just ultra OCD about that stuff!
Do you think all of this would come into play with a 20mm drop or did you just change the parts to be on the safe side? I'm pretty OCD too so my list could be growing... :thinking:
You might find it's more than 20mm mate. That's what the VWR kit is supposed to lower by, but I'd say it's nearer 30-35mm. I can't get my jack under the sill anymore!
The above was an attempt to explain why going lower can have adverse affects, but the drop you and I have done won't impact things drastically. I kept everything Passat for consistency and the ball joints do restore the correct wishbone angle, so it's all good, but not essential :happy2:
Ok I'll leave the Passat bits for now then and see how it feels. Thanks for the advice mate, much appreciated :happy2:
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Apologies for the thread hijack, but I'll be brief.
I have owned since new a 2007 Golf GTI on the std 17" Denver mags and Conti Sport Contact 5s in 225/45/17W. Now at 96,000kms (~60,000 miles). Since new the "jiggling" from the suspension has annoyed me. That is, small incessant sharp vertical movements. In all other respects the suspension is terrific - stability, impact absorption etc. However, I would like to make the ride smoother if possible.
I've tried many tyre pressures from 38psi all round down to 30psi rear and 32psi front, with little change in the jiggling.
I put a pair of Koni Sport on the rear, set to full soft, but these have made little if any difference.
Ideally I want to maintain stock (or close to it) ride height for driveway clearance purposes, so cannot consider springs which lower the car significantly.
Any suggestions?
Plan B is to buy a Mk7 GTI with adaptive chassis control ;-). But obviously plan A would be a lot cheaper!
Cheers.
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
Pudding, would you be able to elaborate on this with part numbers - mainly for the passat parts? Looks to be a nice set up to aspire towards!
Cheers :happy2:
-
Apologies for the thread hijack, but I'll be brief.
I have owned since new a 2007 Golf GTI on the std 17" Denver mags and Conti Sport Contact 5s in 225/45/17W. Now at 96,000kms (~60,000 miles). Since new the "jiggling" from the suspension has annoyed me. That is, small incessant sharp vertical movements. In all other respects the suspension is terrific - stability, impact absorption etc. However, I would like to make the ride smoother if possible.
I've tried many tyre pressures from 38psi all round down to 30psi rear and 32psi front, with little change in the jiggling.
I put a pair of Koni Sport on the rear, set to full soft, but these have made little if any difference.
Ideally I want to maintain stock (or close to it) ride height for driveway clearance purposes, so cannot consider springs which lower the car significantly.
Any suggestions?
Plan B is to buy a Mk7 GTI with adaptive chassis control ;-). But obviously plan A would be a lot cheaper!
Cheers.
New standard springs with VW RacingLine dampers would probably achieve what you want.
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
Pudding, would you be able to elaborate on this with part numbers - mainly for the passat parts? Looks to be a nice set up to aspire towards!
Cheers :happy2:
The Passat stuff is all ebay mate, just search for "Passat B6 wishbones" and "Passat B6 front bearing housings" or "Hubs".
I'll try and dig through my invoices for part numbers on the ball joints and bolts / nuts / bearings etc.
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
Pudding, would you be able to elaborate on this with part numbers - mainly for the passat parts? Looks to be a nice set up to aspire towards!
Cheers :happy2:
The Passat stuff is all ebay mate, just search for "Passat B6 wishbones" and "Passat B6 front bearing housings" or "Hubs".
I'll try and dig through my invoices for part numbers on the ball joints and bolts / nuts / bearings etc.
Okay mate, thanks for the reply. Its always nice to have the numbers from someone who had had the work done to take any doubt out of the equation.
Thanks again!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
Pudding, would you be able to elaborate on this with part numbers - mainly for the passat parts? Looks to be a nice set up to aspire towards!
Cheers :happy2:
The Passat stuff is all ebay mate, just search for "Passat B6 wishbones" and "Passat B6 front bearing housings" or "Hubs".
I'll try and dig through my invoices for part numbers on the ball joints and bolts / nuts / bearings etc.
Okay mate, thanks for the reply. Its always nice to have the numbers from someone who had had the work done to take any doubt out of the equation.
Thanks again!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tell me about it. 90% of the internet part numbers I go into a dealer with end up being wrong or changed to a different number :grin:
-
Apologies for the thread hijack, but I'll be brief.
I have owned since new a 2007 Golf GTI on the std 17" Denver mags and Conti Sport Contact 5s in 225/45/17W. Now at 96,000kms (~60,000 miles). Since new the "jiggling" from the suspension has annoyed me. That is, small incessant sharp vertical movements. In all other respects the suspension is terrific - stability, impact absorption etc. However, I would like to make the ride smoother if possible.
I've tried many tyre pressures from 38psi all round down to 30psi rear and 32psi front, with little change in the jiggling.
I put a pair of Koni Sport on the rear, set to full soft, but these have made little if any difference.
Ideally I want to maintain stock (or close to it) ride height for driveway clearance purposes, so cannot consider springs which lower the car significantly.
Any suggestions?
Plan B is to buy a Mk7 GTI with adaptive chassis control ;-). But obviously plan A would be a lot cheaper!
Cheers.
New standard springs with VW RacingLine dampers would probably achieve what you want.
Thanks for the response, Pudding. You seem very knowledgeable re. suspension options - I'm enjoying your posts.
Cheers.
-
Another thumbs up to the people offering advice on this thread, since I fitted my Bilsteins I've become more aware of the sounds around the front end and at 120k miles on stock parts I suspect most of the wishbone bushes are pretty loose (some gentle klunks and I cant find anything loose on the suspension). Was gonna change them all out but will try and do a complete swap as per Puddings Passat list! Lots of second hand passat hubs on ebay which should be fine but any recommendations for bearings? Unsure on how to tell quality so for solid lumps of metal like hub or wishbone I'm happy with ebay but I assume I want a bit more quality with a bearing?
Also, stupid question but am I looking for passat bearings if I fit a passat hub or will mk5 ones still fit?
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
Pudding, would you be able to elaborate on this with part numbers - mainly for the passat parts? Looks to be a nice set up to aspire towards!
Cheers :happy2:
The Passat stuff is all ebay mate, just search for "Passat B6 wishbones" and "Passat B6 front bearing housings" or "Hubs".
I'll try and dig through my invoices for part numbers on the ball joints and bolts / nuts / bearings etc.
Quick question do you have to drop the front subframe to fit the front wishbones as planning the passat parts upgrade.
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
Pudding, would you be able to elaborate on this with part numbers - mainly for the passat parts? Looks to be a nice set up to aspire towards!
Cheers :happy2:
The Passat stuff is all ebay mate, just search for "Passat B6 wishbones" and "Passat B6 front bearing housings" or "Hubs".
I'll try and dig through my invoices for part numbers on the ball joints and bolts / nuts / bearings etc.
Quick question do you have to drop the front subframe to fit the front wishbones as planning the passat parts upgrade.
If I remember its DSG cars that need subframe dropping, manuals have room to remove front bush bolt without subframe removal. Happy to be corrected on this if I got it muddled.
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
Pudding, would you be able to elaborate on this with part numbers - mainly for the passat parts? Looks to be a nice set up to aspire towards!
Cheers :happy2:
The Passat stuff is all ebay mate, just search for "Passat B6 wishbones" and "Passat B6 front bearing housings" or "Hubs".
I'll try and dig through my invoices for part numbers on the ball joints and bolts / nuts / bearings etc.
Quick question do you have to drop the front subframe to fit the front wishbones as planning the passat parts upgrade.
If I remember its DSG cars that need subframe dropping, manuals have room to remove front bush bolt without subframe removal. Happy to be corrected on this if I got it muddled.
It's possible to remove the front bush bolt by releasing the DSG from its mount and raising it with a jack enough to make the bolt pass below it. :wink:
-
Mine is also on 110K and over the weekend I fitted:
VW Racingline spring & damper kit.
Passat B6 alloy hubs
Passat B6 alloy wishbones with my existing WALK
Passat B6 ball joints
New front top mounts & bearings
New upper and lower rear spring rubber pads
New rear top mounts and bump stops
New front wheel bearings
All stretch bolts replaced
4 wheel alignment
That lot has completely transformed the car. Everything about the way the car drives is markedly better, including the ride quality. The lowering is very mild compared to most kits, but the taller Passat Ball joints and the Passat hubs correct the roll center back to where it should be.
I am normally very cynical about aftermarket stuff but I am completely blown away by the improvements :smiley:
Pudding, would you be able to elaborate on this with part numbers - mainly for the passat parts? Looks to be a nice set up to aspire towards!
Cheers :happy2:
The Passat stuff is all ebay mate, just search for "Passat B6 wishbones" and "Passat B6 front bearing housings" or "Hubs".
I'll try and dig through my invoices for part numbers on the ball joints and bolts / nuts / bearings etc.
Quick question do you have to drop the front subframe to fit the front wishbones as planning the passat parts upgrade.
If I remember its DSG cars that need subframe dropping, manuals have room to remove front bush bolt without subframe removal. Happy to be corrected on this if I got it muddled.
It's possible to remove the front bush bolt by releasing the DSG from its mount and raising it with a jack enough to make the bolt pass below it. :wink:
Thanks for the advise, my car is DSG and I was thinking I would have to drop the subframe to get the front bolt out.
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It's a battery out and CAI out, if you have the CAI. My friend did that when he fitted the alloy arms in my Ed. 30 that's DSG too. :wink:
-
Another thumbs up to the people offering advice on this thread, since I fitted my Bilsteins I've become more aware of the sounds around the front end and at 120k miles on stock parts I suspect most of the wishbone bushes are pretty loose (some gentle klunks and I cant find anything loose on the suspension). Was gonna change them all out but will try and do a complete swap as per Puddings Passat list! Lots of second hand passat hubs on ebay which should be fine but any recommendations for bearings? Unsure on how to tell quality so for solid lumps of metal like hub or wishbone I'm happy with ebay but I assume I want a bit more quality with a bearing?
Also, stupid question but am I looking for passat bearings if I fit a passat hub or will mk5 ones still fit?
Golf and Passat wheel bearings are the same mate. They are approx. £130 each from the dealer. They're made by FAG if you want to research some cheaper options.
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Just to update anyone who is interested, i got my ST 20mm suspension kit with new bump stops, new top mounts, new drop links, new rear trailing arms with bushes all fitted yesterday.
Have to say i'm impressed! The car doesn't look much lower but definitely sits nicer, it's not got the give of OEM suspension but it is not uncomfortable at all. I would say it just feels firmer which is a good thing in my eyes have to say it's a very good kit for the money. Stays very flat through the corners now and feels so much more precise than it did before.
I'll put a couple of pics up next time i give it a clean :smiley:
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Sounds like a good result all round then. :congrats:
I'm still in two minds what to do about springs.
If you can get them pics up would be great.
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fk120%2Fbazman85%2FIMG_3617_zpseccrh6da.jpg&hash=bea8064815c697563600f0f528d92ed5e51e3507)
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Yeh pretty happy, excuse the dirty car in the pic. Needs a wash! just need to get the brakes sorted then a trip to Rtech :smiley:
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I wish my VWR kit was that height! Looks spot on :happy2:
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That ride height looks good might have to go for a set of these. Thankyou
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Cheers guys! No probs I'd definitely recommend
Pudding, it's a 20mm drop so supposed to be the same as the VWR kit? Have you got any pics of yours?
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Cheers guys! No probs I'd definitely recommend
Pudding, it's a 20mm drop so supposed to be the same as the VWR kit? Have you got any pics of yours?
Certainly have. Looks a bit lower than yours! Or is it a trick of the camera? :thinking:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fx2%2Fkevhaywire%2FIMG_5421_zpsobhvpxqg.jpg&hash=106d49aaa3463a41660500db8958b7f18d814349)
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Cheers guys! No probs I'd definitely recommend
Pudding, it's a 20mm drop so supposed to be the same as the VWR kit? Have you got any pics of yours?
Certainly have. Looks a bit lower than yours! Or is it a trick of the camera? :thinking:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fx2%2Fkevhaywire%2FIMG_5421_zpsobhvpxqg.jpg&hash=106d49aaa3463a41660500db8958b7f18d814349)
Oh I see what you mean that does look quite a bit lower.... maybe mine just needs to settle or maybe there's just a quite a bit of variation between different manufacturers kits.
Don't get me wrong though yours looks nice and not too low :happy2:
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Are put a picture of mine up on h&r springs for comparison.