Post by: f00glee on September 01, 2017, 10:00:52 am
Ive scoured the forums and found plenty of posts where people have the same issue and offer potential solutions, but have yet to find a post where someone actually cured the problem.
I've heard of:
-Battery (just changed mine)
-Lpfp
-Plugs and coils
-Fuel sensor on hpfp
-Fuel check valve between hpfp and lpfp (does this even exist?)
-fuel type (I use only v-power, though)
When opening the drivers door, I do hear the fuel pump priming. I also let the dash lights go out before starting, but this doesn't always make a difference. Also worth noting the car is completely free of any fault codes.
The car kind of sputters into life over a few seconds rather than starting positively like it should. My suspicion is a lack of fuel pressure after being sat for a while, but this is just a suspicion!
The car never actually fails to start and runs flawlessly otherwise. Has anyone had a similar issue and actually fixed it? Most seem to just live with it as a "feature" but I find it frustrating! This is the last thing after a series of small issues I want to fix to make the car "perfect" in my eyes.
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Post by: pudding on September 01, 2017, 10:14:13 am
This guy is a VW diagnostics expert, so check this out for a better explanation. It may not be your exact issue, but it's certainly an avenue to explore -
Post by: MIJ_JAGGER on September 01, 2017, 11:07:37 am
Post by: f00glee on September 01, 2017, 11:37:34 am
I had my fuel filter replaced 6 months ago, so unlikely to be that as the issue existed before this.
Also interesting that turning the key to the last click before engine cranking caused further priming of the low pressure side. Didn't realise this was the case. Perhaps my sitting and letting the lights go it is allowing pressure to leak back, worsening my issue.
After work I'll try a couple turns like this before cranking the engine - could be a stop gap measure until I can diagnose the root cause.
Thanks for the help, as always. Will report back as I learn more.
MIJ - if I am hearing the fuel pump, I guess I can assume the relay is okay?
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Post by: pudding on September 01, 2017, 11:49:11 am
I replaced my original LPFP as I was getting fuel cuts on corners when the tank was 1/4 full. Apparently the early pumps suffered over-heating, so they revised it 5 or so years ago iirc. Not had that problem or starting issues since.
Fuel filters should be replaced annually imo as petrol is filthy!
Yep, toggling the ignition to position 2 also pulses the LPFP, so yeah, if you toggle it 4 or 5 times and it starts on the button......I think you've found your culprit!
Post by: Patrick2691 on September 01, 2017, 02:43:01 pm
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Post by: pudding on September 01, 2017, 02:56:07 pm
If that is the case, the HPFP needs to run for a few seconds to restore the lost pressure, hence the sluggish starts maybe?
Leaving the ignition on for 30-40 seconds is an odd one though!
Post by: f00glee on September 01, 2017, 05:01:18 pm
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Post by: pudding on September 01, 2017, 06:09:06 pm
Post by: Patrick2691 on September 01, 2017, 06:40:16 pm
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Post by: pudding on September 01, 2017, 07:59:10 pm
Going back to earlier analysing about measuring block 103, I saw 7.5 bar on mine when left for an hour, engine off, if that helps at all.
Post by: f00glee on September 01, 2017, 08:25:19 pm
After start up the fuel rail held nicely at 50BAR (normal I think) and the lpfp maintained a duty cycle of 46-48% on idle (again, this is normal from what I have read).
Sitting with the ignition in position 2 and engine off after running for a couple minutes, the low pressure reading held steady at 7 bar again, though perhaps this is to be expected as with ignition on the and engine off the lpfp duty cycle was 5.9%. Fuel rail pressure at this point was dropping from 50bar very slowly ~0.01bar every 10-20 seconds.
So no real answers, but no surprises either. Ill repeat the test tomorrow after the car has been sat overnight and see if anything appears to be different.
Post by: pudding on September 01, 2017, 08:58:41 pm
I think the main test will be to remove relay 167 and do the same readings in the morning, because opening the door will obviously prime the pump if the relay is still in place. The fuel filter has a 5.5 bar regulator built in, so not sure what bearing that would have on the readings. It should never fall below that in theory!
Post by: Dave J on September 01, 2017, 11:06:43 pm
Mine was perky as you like for a while on turning over after fitting the highly rated Varta by Bonelorry's thread (https://www.tayna.co.uk/E44-Varta-Silver-Dynamic-Car-Battery-P7726.html). Better cranking power, and no issues for ages.
As per f00glee's post, (apart from the battery) mine has had the following new parts as improvements in the time I have owned it,
Loba HPFP
New R8 coils
New VW LPFP
New sensor on HPFP
At my next (looming service) I want the fuel filter replaced for the newer 6.6bar version anyway as part of good practice (never been changed).
Mine is on 86k now (bought on 47k in 2012, and always run on VPower in my ownership). Could this simply be down to a carboned up head? I know the injectors can get a bit tired, but mine doesn't show any issues when running in terms of missing, etc...
I have Vagcom, but am no master when it comes to logging stuff...
I do have an intermittent ignition switch fault logged though. Never had an issue with the car not starting, etc.
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 AQ HW: 1K0 953 549 AQ
Component: J0527 036 0070
Coding: 0013142
Shop #: WSC 00581 210 83422
VCID: 010232F958614249E6-8054
Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX
Component: E0221 002 0010
1 Fault Found:
00883 - Ignition Switch (D) Terminal S
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent
Any one have the same?
Post by: rich83 on September 02, 2017, 12:53:53 am
Post by: f00glee on September 02, 2017, 09:15:17 am
Some bits and bobs to do first this morning. But I'll then have another go with the car now that's it's sat overnight. I'm too lazy to pull the fuse so I'm just going to climb in the passenger seat. If pressures all look good but it struggles, then perhaps the carboned up head is a point for consideration (have seen it mentioned in conversation elsewhere).
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Post by: f00glee on September 02, 2017, 01:04:05 pm
Heres some numbers (spluttery, today):
bar bar %
6.28 7 5.9
6.28 7 5.9
6.29 7 5.9
5.99 7 5.9
5.46 21.28 27.5
4.73 35.61 27.5
3.96 60.86 35.7
3.82 57.05 46.7
3.98 52.22 46.7
3.97 51.19 45.5
3.93 51.03 47.5
3.9 50.16 51.8
3.98 50.23 56.5
4.17 49.44 56.5
4.45 49.46 50.6
4.61 49.44 46.3
This is over roughly 3 seconds, the car took perhaps the middle 1.5 secs to fire up, the rest is pre and post startup. After this all pressures stabilised. col 1 = low side pressure, col 2 = rail pressure, col 3 = lpfp duty cycle.
The low side pressure does dip a little as the engine is cranked (from 6.2 down to 3.9 before coming back to 4.61 once started) after this, then idling all the number stay stable at these values. Comparing to yesterdays good start, the low side pressure started at 6.83 and never dipped to then come back up again
Not spluttery, yesterday:
bar bar %
6.83 7 5.9
6.83 7 5.9
6.96 7 27.1
6.73 18.84 26.7
6.26 31.84 27.1
5.57 51.77 27.5
4.75 62.84 34.9
4.37 53.66 36.1
4.36 52.51 37.6
So there is a bit of difference, but would this really be enough to make it splutter? The rail pressures climb equally quickly on both logs and I'm sure that's more important than the low side pressure. Plus the low side pressure down to 3.9 bar in the spluttery start up log hardly indicates the lpfp being starved. The minor differences in number are probably the difference between sitting for 2 hours and being a bit warm, and then sitting over night and being stone cold. Sample rates from each log are slightly different as i was logging 1 extra block yesterday.
So assuming my fuel pressure sensors arent lying, fueling seems to be okay? Leaving spark and air... the plugs are, from memory, only a few years and ~12k old, coils never changed so by all rights spark should be okay (but I do plan to change plugs and coils next service anyway). As for the air supply - this bring my thoughts back to carbonised intake ports.
Between plugs, coils and intake cleaning were looking at £500. Not money I want to spend all at once just chasing this minor issue, but will be done as part of routine maintenance over the next year or so. So barring any other suggestions ill just come back here to post if any single piece of maintenance makes any difference.
Post by: pudding on September 02, 2017, 07:41:12 pm
Post by: slix on September 03, 2017, 09:31:01 pm
Post by: maxamplitude10 on September 05, 2017, 02:36:03 pm
Any input from anyone on this?
TX
Dean
Post by: pudding on September 05, 2017, 04:17:36 pm
Post by: maxamplitude10 on September 05, 2017, 04:26:23 pm
Post by: markrtw on September 05, 2017, 05:05:30 pm
This is strangely all great reading. Thought I am going mad with my ED30 not seeming to start the same way a few times in the morning. When cold at home (on a slanted drive) it either splutters to life, or starts keenly. Does it too at work on a flat surface...
Mine was perky as you like for a while on turning over after fitting the highly rated Varta by Bonelorry's thread (https://www.tayna.co.uk/E44-Varta-Silver-Dynamic-Car-Battery-P7726.html). Better cranking power, and no issues for ages.
As per f00glee's post, (apart from the battery) mine has had the following new parts as improvements in the time I have owned it,
Loba HPFP
New R8 coils
New VW LPFP
New sensor on HPFP
At my next (looming service) I want the fuel filter replaced for the newer 6.6bar version anyway as part of good practice (never been changed).
Mine is on 86k now (bought on 47k in 2012, and always run on VPower in my ownership). Could this simply be down to a carboned up head? I know the injectors can get a bit tired, but mine doesn't show any issues when running in terms of missing, etc...
I have Vagcom, but am no master when it comes to logging stuff...
I do have an intermittent ignition switch fault logged though. Never had an issue with the car not starting, etc.
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 AQ HW: 1K0 953 549 AQ
Component: J0527 036 0070
Coding: 0013142
Shop #: WSC 00581 210 83422
VCID: 010232F958614249E6-8054
Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX
Component: E0221 002 0010
1 Fault Found:
00883 - Ignition Switch (D) Terminal S
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent
Any one have the same?
I used to have get this error and after an hour of driving my radio would switch off (just pressed the power button and it would come back on).Googling I found some threads where dealers had replaced the ignition switches in TTs that have similar faults. I replaced my ignition switch and the error & issue went away. The switch is not expensive and I found quite easy to replace.
Post by: Dave J on September 05, 2017, 09:51:51 pm
I've never had issues with the radio turning off when driving, or not shutting off when turning off the car. This seems to be just another 'fault' logged, but makes no difference to how the car actually behaves...
Post by: f00glee on November 06, 2017, 05:04:58 pm
I ran through all of the "readiness" and calibration sttings in VCDS I could find - no improvement. Also switched out the N80 purge valve as I had read some suggestions that this can cause excess fuel vapor in the intake and a rich condition at startup which can be hard to ignite when cold (this didn't help either).
Strangely, the only thing that seems to help is timing. If I unlock, open drivers door (hear priming), sit straight down, key in ignition and to "on" then wait until the fasten seat belt warning disappears, it starts cleanly first time, 9 times out of 10. Weird! If I stray from this timing a few seconds in either direction it'll almost certainly splutter.
Using this method I'm happier with the starts, but still the illusive underlying cause is at the back of my mind. I also opted not to touch plugs and coils as plugs were replaced 12k ago and coils 25k ago under recall so by all rights should be fine.
I'm now left with inlet cleaning/injector service (pricey but on the list for the future anyway) or perhaps I missed something when logging fuel pressures the other month?
As always - if anyone has any new ideas, share them please! :thinking:
Post by: pudding on November 07, 2017, 11:53:33 am
Have you tried opening the door and firing it up immediately, in the interests of experimentation? I would say if no amount of ignition on/off'ing (secondary pump priming) improves the situation, it's unlikely to be fuel pump related.
A valve and injector clean certainly wouldn't go amiss, although it's more the injectors than carbon build that's a problem......unless the latter is so horrifically bad, it's restricting air flow.
Post by: f00glee on November 07, 2017, 12:54:41 pm
When you switch the ignition on, the ECU performs a throttle body check / calibration (you can hear it whining and flapping about). It sounds like you're cranking it over after this process stops. Coincidence? Hmmmmm, not sure. I haven't noticed a pattern like that on mine, but then again I replaced the throttle last year.
Have you tried opening the door and firing it up immediately, in the interests of experimentation? I would say if no amount of ignition on/off'ing (secondary pump priming) improves the situation, it's unlikely to be fuel pump related.
A valve and injector clean certainly wouldn't go amiss, although it's more the injectors than carbon build that's a problem......unless the latter is so horrifically bad, it's restricting air flow.
I have tried jumping in and starting immediately, seems to induce a spluttery start. Its almost as if I've only got a small window between two events in which I have a good chance of a clean start.
Perhaps a slightly carboned up injector which is leaking a bit? Too soon and pressure hasn't built up enough. Too late and I've got excess fuel in the cylinder which is hard to ignite? At this point I'm not so much worried, as I've found a work-around,just hopeful ill stumble across the solution some day. Next time a garage needs to be visited ill perhaps ask them to perform a fuel pressure test with a manual gauge and compare to the cars sensor readings in case there is a mismatch. A carbon clean/injector service at RTech is on the cards, its just finding the time as it'll write a day off.
Picking up on something @maxamplitude10 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=12705) said a while back. If there any harm to be done by depressing the throttle before the engine is started? If this is perfectly safe ill add this step into my routine and see what happens!
Post by: pudding on November 07, 2017, 02:09:10 pm
Pressing the throttle before cranking it won't harm anything, but I'm not sure what the ECU does with the throttle during cranking though. I suspect it 'parks' it in the default position (roughly 6% open) until fires.
Post by: pudding on December 15, 2017, 10:41:00 am
Mine has started doing something similar recently, and intermittently. A bit lumpy for a second or 2, or it will fire up immediately, and then cut out straight away. Probably does that 1 in every 20 cold starts. The lumpiness 1 in every 10 cold starts I'd say.
I was going to just throw a new lift pump in it and a filter to see if that helps, but thought I'd check to see if you managed to sort it first as the pump isn't cheap!
Post by: f00glee on December 15, 2017, 11:35:03 am
Did you get any further with this @f00glee (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=16398) ?
Mine has started doing something similar recently, and intermittently. A bit lumpy for a second or 2, or it will fire up immediately, and then cut out straight away. Probably does that 1 in every 20 cold starts. The lumpiness 1 in every 10 cold starts I'd say.
I was going to just throw a new lift pump in it and a filter to see if that helps, but thought I'd check to see if you managed to sort it first as the pump isn't cheap!
Not got any further I'm afraid. Still going with the timing solution I mentioned previously. To be clear though, for me the splutter is before the engine has properly caught and fired i.e. during cranking. I never get a cut out after its started and it will always start if I hold the key in the ignition position till its fired properly.
If a clean start is *wer**wer**wer**vrooom* then a "rough" start for me is *wer*wer**spluter*wer*splutter**wer**vroom* :signLOL:
So may or may not be the same for you - at very least its "similar" so please do report back if anything you do makes a positive difference :happy2:
Post by: MIJ_JAGGER on December 15, 2017, 11:45:09 am
Best description ever lolDid you get any further with this @f00glee (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=16398) ?
Mine has started doing something similar recently, and intermittently. A bit lumpy for a second or 2, or it will fire up immediately, and then cut out straight away. Probably does that 1 in every 20 cold starts. The lumpiness 1 in every 10 cold starts I'd say.
I was going to just throw a new lift pump in it and a filter to see if that helps, but thought I'd check to see if you managed to sort it first as the pump isn't cheap!
Not got any further I'm afraid. Still going with the timing solution I mentioned previously. To be clear though, for me the splutter is before the engine has properly caught and fired i.e. during cranking. I never get a cut out after its started and it will always start if I hold the key in the ignition position till its fired properly.
If a clean start is *wer**wer**wer**vrooom* then a "rough" start for me is *wer*wer**spluter*wer*splutter**wer**vroom* :signLOL:
So may or may not be the same for you - at very least its "similar" so please do report back if anything you do makes a positive difference :happy2:
Mine has started doing this over the cold weather too recently. It seems to mostly do it when I'm starting up the car for the first time. Doesn't cut out though....
Recently had an issue with the starter motor when the car refused to start one morning, haven't changed it yet but thinking if that's got anything to do with it maybe...?
Post by: Dan_FR on December 15, 2017, 12:48:20 pm
Post by: f00glee on December 15, 2017, 01:27:47 pm
Mine used to do exactly this... until I bought a brand new Bosch S5 battery.... Hasn't done it in over 12 months since
Unfortunately, the same didn't cure for me. I had my battery tested to be failing so replaced with varta E44 - no difference in my startups.
Post by: pudding on December 15, 2017, 03:33:27 pm
Starting up and then cutting out immediately is classic immobiliser failure, but there are no fault codes for that. I'll use my second key for a while and see if that helps.
Good call on the battery. I replaced that last year, so I would hope it's not that already!
Post by: antonis42 on December 15, 2017, 10:07:29 pm
turns out it was the fuel filter - has a valve in it -it was not sealing properly,
so would let fuel seap back to the fuel tank and hence no proper pressure for startup. made the lpfp work overtime.
hope this helps
Post by: Dan_FR on December 15, 2017, 11:56:41 pm
What I did notice with mine is how much faster the starter turns with the newer battery compared to how it was previous.
Post by: Dave J on December 16, 2017, 03:27:10 pm
Mine's had a new LPFP in the last few years, is running a LOBA HPFP, R8 coils, a fresh Varta battery, recent service, new 6.6 bar fuel filter and it still sometimes crunks in to life. I'd like to see if injector cleaning & walnut blastings sorts this. The mornings when it bursts to life are great...!
Post by: pudding on December 16, 2017, 03:33:24 pm
I will try one of the new 6.6 bar filters as well. Start with the cheapest bits first :smiley:
Post by: Neil 54 on December 17, 2017, 08:23:28 pm
Post by: pudding on December 18, 2017, 09:39:28 am
The last 3 cold starts have been spot on for me. Weird.
What I have noticed is in when it's minus degrees outside, it starts perfectly. When it's in the zero to +5 range, that's when it can muck about. All engine maps have start up fuel tables based on temperature, so maybe the 0 - 10 range is slightly weak. Dunno, just a hunch.
Post by: Dan_FR on December 18, 2017, 10:32:29 am
I've never actually checked my LOBA to see if I have the larger fitting. It's been on the car for 3 years now. Job for next year once it warms up
I've noticed with mine, that sometimes when its sub zero it also doesn't idle 'high' like it does when its slightly warmer... It just starts and ticks over at around 800rpm. But I will say when mine did have this issue it was always the 0-10 range of temps it played up - never sub zero and never when it was warm out (over 10 degrees)
I am almost sure it was my new beefier battery that resolved it for me. Have any of you guys ever logged the cold cranking speed of your engine? Disable it from starting and log it with VCDS to see what the cranking RPM is and how quickly it reaches this speed
Post by: pudding on December 18, 2017, 10:47:08 am
My R32 was exactly the same. Apparently ME7 and MED9 ECUs doesn't have fixed idling routines. The idle speeds vary depending on SAI/EGR/HVAC/Temp dependencies but it is weird how in the summer it cold idles at 1200rpm pretty much every time, but when it's -5 to 0, it rarely idles over 1000. Must be an air density / emissions modelling thing. Not sure.
Thankfully our winters aren't long enough for it to be a huge concern!
Post by: pudding on December 18, 2017, 03:00:46 pm
So anyway, out of curiosity, I shoved an old MAF in (it's about 3 years old) on my lunch break and since then it's driven a lot better. Smoother, quieter, more responsive. All of it.
I will see if stone cold startups improve also.
The previous MAF was bought this summer from VW. It was covered in engine oil when I took it out to pop into the Revo intake, which I can only guess came from excessive turbo surge. There is no oil in the dump valve pipe work. Since the MAF is very close to the rear PCV and the turbo, excessive turbulence down there will back flow oily air onto the MAF. I guess it's f'cked then. Sensitive little things. I will see if I can get VW to swap it out for a new one since their parts have a 2 year warranty.
That was a long winded way of saying - iffy cold starts could be caused by a dodgy MAF. MAFs are funny things. They can show no apparent problems, small trims, no fault codes.....and yet.....stick a new/old one and the engine completely changes for the better. Stupid things. I always preferred engines that use MAP as load instead of flakey MAFs.
Post by: f00glee on December 18, 2017, 04:56:26 pm
I may have stumbled onto something today. I've noticed since the Revo 2+ tune (with Revo intake) my long term part throttle trims were +8%. It shouldn't be that high with software tailored to the intake, and especially not after only 3 days of running the tune.....and even more especially not when running B9, T5, F7. That's a pretty rich AFR request.
So anyway, out of curiosity, I shoved an old MAF in (it's about 3 years old) on my lunch break and since then it's driven a lot better. Smoother, quieter, more responsive. All of it.
I will see if stone cold startups improve also.
The previous MAF was bought this summer from VW. It was covered in engine oil when I took it out to pop into the Revo intake, which I can only guess came from excessive turbo surge. There is no oil in the dump valve pipe work. Since the MAF is very close to the rear PCV and the turbo, excessive turbulence down there will back flow oily air onto the MAF. I guess it's f'cked then. Sensitive little things. I will see if I can get VW to swap it out for a new one since their parts have a 2 year warranty.
That was a long winded way of saying - iffy cold starts could be caused by a dodgy MAF. MAFs are funny things. They can show no apparent problems, small trims, no fault codes.....and yet.....stick a new/old one and the engine completely changes for the better. Stupid things. I always preferred engines that use MAP as load instead of flakey MAFs.
Interesting idea. Is it perhaps worth me unplugging my MAF when I'm home tonight and see how the car starts in the morning with it disconnected?
Post by: aaronk.juju on December 18, 2017, 07:39:28 pm
Post by: pudding on December 19, 2017, 11:07:00 am
I may have stumbled onto something today. I've noticed since the Revo 2+ tune (with Revo intake) my long term part throttle trims were +8%. It shouldn't be that high with software tailored to the intake, and especially not after only 3 days of running the tune.....and even more especially not when running B9, T5, F7. That's a pretty rich AFR request.
So anyway, out of curiosity, I shoved an old MAF in (it's about 3 years old) on my lunch break and since then it's driven a lot better. Smoother, quieter, more responsive. All of it.
I will see if stone cold startups improve also.
The previous MAF was bought this summer from VW. It was covered in engine oil when I took it out to pop into the Revo intake, which I can only guess came from excessive turbo surge. There is no oil in the dump valve pipe work. Since the MAF is very close to the rear PCV and the turbo, excessive turbulence down there will back flow oily air onto the MAF. I guess it's f'cked then. Sensitive little things. I will see if I can get VW to swap it out for a new one since their parts have a 2 year warranty.
That was a long winded way of saying - iffy cold starts could be caused by a dodgy MAF. MAFs are funny things. They can show no apparent problems, small trims, no fault codes.....and yet.....stick a new/old one and the engine completely changes for the better. Stupid things. I always preferred engines that use MAP as load instead of flakey MAFs.
Interesting idea. Is it perhaps worth me unplugging my MAF when I'm home tonight and see how the car starts in the morning with it disconnected?
It's worth a shot. The MAF gets power during cranking so the ECU must therefore read it for starting up. Mine started up instantly and settled to smooth idle immediately this morning with the different MAF. It was -1 C at the time. Best cold start in months! Too early to say if it's a definitive fix (for mine at least) but it's certainly encouraging! The slower than usual and lumpy cold idle has gone as well. Cold throttle response much improved also.
Post by: f00glee on December 19, 2017, 07:11:33 pm
Post by: f00glee on December 20, 2017, 09:53:55 am
My ED30 occasionally struggled to start, and had to be cranked for a good few seconds. Although the cranking would go weak after a couple of seconds it would always start. I checked my battery voltage, which was healthy. I suspected possibly the starter motor/bad connection. However I cleaned my intake valves (just a job I was planning on doing anyway) recently and have not had any hesitations in starting since this has been done. Our cars have a major issue with this buildup. My runner flaps, and valve ports were coated in about 2-3mm of gunk (2-3mm either side of the runner flaps so they were over double their normal size!) which I can now see would cause problems with starting. My car had only done 73k and the buildup on the valves was ridiculous.
Its interesting you've seen a positive difference in your starts as a result of this. Even though my car is a low miler, it is still 10 years old and therefore may have been subjected to shorter average journeys. I understand this adds to the rate of buildup? I think ill plan to have this done and injectors cleaned at RTech or similar. Probably treat my car for its 40(k) birthday!
Post by: pudding on December 20, 2017, 12:36:03 pm
Did the engine perform any better with the MAF disconnected? Normally if the ECU isn't happy with the MAF signal, it substitutes values from other sensors and it often drives better as a result. If there is no change, the MAF is OK.
I believe the MAF kicks in the moment it fires up. With my duff MAF, when it caught there was a momentary dip in revs and it was at that point it would either immediately cut out, or stumble and cough for a second or two like a lawnmower engine starting up. Since the good MAF, starting has been very consistent. Anyway, I think your issue lies elsewhere.
Cleaning the valves did nothing noticeable on mine, but then again, at 115 odd K they weren't actually carboned up that bad compared to some. If the build up is bad enough to the point of restricting airflow at startup (there are no compensations other than water/air temp & battery voltage) the ECU doesn't know about it and won't add/subtract fuel accordingly. Could be worth getting yours checked out!
Post by: f00glee on December 20, 2017, 01:45:56 pm
I've come to realise how lucky I was to find a low-miler. And I plan to keep it for the forseeable, so figure jobs like the inlet clean though maybe not necessary right away (but then again, could be) are something I'd end up doing further down the line anyway. I may as well do it now and know its all squeaky clean, hen ill be enjoying any benefits straight away, not in a few years time. Plus the potential for a leaky injector theorised earlier in this thread will be checked out simultaneously. If I feel like really going for it, Ill throw in some new plugs and coils, too.
Ill likely roll all this into my yearly service, usually march-time, and bring it all forward to maybe Feb. In which case ill report back with any improvements. :happy2:
Post by: pudding on December 20, 2017, 04:52:35 pm
In the meantime, you could try a couple of old school methods to help start the engine better? :grin:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cDqPuzC1SJE/hqdefault.jpg)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fuelfixer.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F08%2FHolts20Bradex.jpg&hash=782219e19ef44f4502d156a95bcfc18909f838aa)
Post by: f00glee on December 20, 2017, 05:59:49 pm
Post by: f00glee on December 22, 2017, 09:15:42 am
As another plus, there's a particularly good stretch of road, The B645 from Saint Neots to Higham Ferrers, which is en route. Any excuse to head towards the midlands from Cambridge via this route!
Ill be sure to report back when done!
Post by: pudding on December 22, 2017, 09:23:31 am
My Nan lives in St Neots. Pretty sure I have been on the B645. If it's the road I think it is, then I had a lot of fun on that in my old Corrado VR6 Turbo :smiley:
Post by: Neil 54 on January 12, 2018, 07:18:26 pm
Post by: pudding on January 12, 2018, 10:16:28 pm
Post by: Neil 54 on January 13, 2018, 05:41:20 pm
Post by: f00glee on February 21, 2018, 11:08:58 am
I was a little pessimistic about the potential gains but have to say I'm happy to have had it done. Pics of my inlets (red GTI) are on RTechs facebook page - posted 16/02/18 if anyone fancies a look. Even though my car is only at 38k, there was a fair amount of crud in there. Seems the first owners' short trips (suggested by mileage) in the first 9 years may have contributed. Marcus at RTech said he's seen higher mileage cars be cleaner so it seems fair to say that carbon deposits are more related to usage type than mileage. Maybe oil and fuel type too?
Also the injector's peak flow was down 5-7% due to carbon deposits and after a good clean came up to spec nicely.
All of this adds up to a fresher feel especially on that first start of the day. I'd say if you're experiencing spluttery starts it could be worth considering this service. No obvious immediate gains in terms of power or MPG, the engine does seem generally keener and more responsive, though.
Full disclosure - I did have a new set of plugs at the same time. Though the ones which came out didn't seem bad at all - opted to swap 20k OEMs for a new set of NGKs.
@19TW80 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=15460) thought you may want to see what I had to say about this. p.s. nice meeting you Friday, the smile on your face after testing your stage 1 eddy said it all. Enjoy!
Post by: pudding on February 21, 2018, 02:26:25 pm
Post by: ROH ECHT on August 02, 2021, 04:43:18 pm
I have a seat_key in ignition_shut the door and buckle up_turn the key_let go of the key thinking it can take over on its own_and nothing. Turn the key again and it starts right up.
It's not cold here.
All fueling bits were replaced last summer; LPFP_HPFP_6.6bar Filter_pressure sensors_bamboo fitting opened to 5mm_S3/Golf R injectors.
Inlet valves were cleaned last summer as well and just 1600 miles have been added since.
I have yet to watch any data for pressure prior to starting but this will be done soon.
I have new BKR7EIX plugs and the new APR coils on the way...so waiting for them to arrive and to install those next.
I have the best MAF installed...in that it is newest of the three I have, and reads the highest mass air in the data logs. But I will attempt a start-up with it unplugged soon.
My LTFT is just under +8%...as it has been for a long time. My STFT never points to any leaks when tested following a fault clear.
I will follow up and share anything I have to add. Will take me some time though...as I have become lazy, less motivated to be honest, in dealing with the issues of late. For having to replace all the fueling bits last year and the K04 this year.
It has a fuel like odor coming from the exhaust currently, which I thought may be from the smoke I saw prior to replacing the turbo. But the odor remains and every VW tech and exhaust shop tech I ask now says 'fuel' is the odor. Thinking one or more of the new Golf R injectors installed last summer have an issue, but have been advised to give it some time after having just installed a cat to my catless DP. So the injectors may need to be removed and tested or replaced. Giving it some time because again, last week I went from Catless back to catted DP and the odor seems to be decreasing.
Post by: bacillus on August 02, 2021, 07:37:47 pm
Here to join the club. Lately, past few months, mine has failed to run on the first start attempt.
I have a seat_key in ignition_shut the door and buckle up_turn the key_let go of the key thinking it can take over on its own_and nothing. Turn the key again and it starts right up.
Had that problem with mine and it eventually turned out to be the starter motor becoming faulty.
No issue now with a new starter motor...
Post by: ROH ECHT on August 02, 2021, 08:37:22 pm
Post by: bacillus on August 02, 2021, 10:33:49 pm
Was yours like mine is; turns over and sounds like it should be running but when I let off of the key it's not running? That's with holding the key in the start position a bit longer than normal.actually not!
Mine intermittently did nothing on first turn of the key but started on the second turn.
Post by: ROH ECHT on August 03, 2021, 10:39:13 pm
Post by: ROH ECHT on August 05, 2021, 04:19:09 am
Tues. - MAF unplugged and started right up.
Wed. - MAF plugged in and it did the same ol' "turns over but not gonna run until the 2nd attempt."
Thur. - MAF unplugged and started right up.
Fri. - MAF plugged 'in' and it started right up. Actually started the best yet of the four days.
Sat. - MAF unplugged and it started right up.
.......*Interestingly, the past two days have started better than it has in a long time. Before Friday's start-up...I messed around with VCDS O2 Readiness on Thursday, following the morning start-up. I wasn't able to get the test procedure down for the test to actually work, but still something may have changed. I have spent some time trying to resolve my issues with performing the Readiness test, as it remained on "Test off" no matter what I tried, and am now ready to try again. We'll see.*
Sun. - MAF plugged in and it didn't start the first attempt.
Post by: pudding on August 08, 2021, 11:44:16 am
FWIW, mine developed a sluggish and lumpy cold start, and replacing the IAT sensor has solved it. £40 from VW. The sensor is unbranded, so I don't what brand to suggest in the aftermarket. It's definitely not a Bosch sensor as they don't list one for the EA113 engine.
Post by: ROH ECHT on August 08, 2021, 04:27:58 pm
I really don't think mine is having an 'only when cold' start issue. It's just been having a non-start issue on every first attempt. Until the past three days. With the last two starting up nicely for whatever reason. Our night weather here has been quite consistent since early June....with low temps dropping to 58°F to 65°F. And mine is parked in an insulated garage. I think today will be the last day I report on whether it starts or not the first try. Unless it not starting returns again.
Post by: pudding on August 13, 2021, 10:38:46 pm
Unless there are other mechanical oddities/worn parts, I can't think of anything else that would affect startup consistency. Older engines with reduced compression don't tend to start as smoothly as a new one either.
Post by: Mk5gti on November 03, 2021, 12:22:37 pm
Post by: ROH ECHT on November 03, 2021, 06:36:47 pm
I don't believe it needs a new IAT sensor because its VCDS IAT data shows the intake temp to be near what the MFD does on the dash before starting. But I do have a new IAT sensor sitting on a shelf to try.
I believe 'Pudding' mentioned, on another topic, he recently changed his VVT bits...and he stated he noticed it now starts more like new.
Post by: Yusufterzi on January 10, 2022, 08:06:03 am
Nope...mine returned to cranking over but then nothing. If I hold the key at start longer than normal, it cranks and starts to run. But the initial moment of it running is briefly rough before it smooths to a normal running condition. I am hoping an upcoming VVT service will help. To include; chain__tensioner__cam phaser__I don't think it needs three new phaser rings, nor the N205, because I replaced the chain cover (06F103107G) recently for being stripped after a dozen CF swaps__and clean the N205 screen.Did you solve the issue?
I don't believe it needs a new IAT sensor because its VCDS IAT data shows the intake temp to be near what the MFD does on the dash before starting. But I do have a new IAT sensor sitting on a shelf to try.
I believe 'Pudding' mentioned, on another topic, he recently changed his VVT bits...and he stated he noticed it now starts more like new.