MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: subaru26675 on February 06, 2010, 07:41:13 pm

Title: Milltek question ?
Post by: subaru26675 on February 06, 2010, 07:41:13 pm
Looking at fitting a milltek sports cat to my standard edition 30 exhaust system and am wondering what is required. Am i right in thinking i need the connecting pipe AND an a reducer to fit my original mid section ?  :confused:

Kev
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Aparoon on February 06, 2010, 07:44:27 pm
IIRC all you need is a reducer...  :rolleye:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: candy turbo on February 08, 2010, 06:59:45 pm
and if milltek find out its paired to oem system your warrenty will be vioded too !
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Phil Mcavity on February 08, 2010, 07:31:23 pm
and if milltek find out its paired to oem system your warrenty will be vioded too !

So are you saying you cant have a cat back system with a warranty then???  shouldnt make any difference which end you opt to do 1st? if you cant afford the full system to start with :confused:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Toast on February 08, 2010, 07:37:58 pm
My warranty must be royaly f*cked then as I've got Jonny c's downpipe from his s3 mated to my non res miltek catback  :signLOL:  Not to worry I no Charlie from Miltek :happy2:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Greeners on February 08, 2010, 07:40:41 pm
and if milltek find out its paired to oem system your warrenty will be vioded too !

That can't be right Ian!  :confused:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 08, 2010, 07:43:56 pm
and if milltek find out its paired to oem system your warrenty will be vioded too !

That can't be right Ian!  :confused:

defo not correct as they would not sell them separate would they
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: RedRobin on February 08, 2010, 07:44:45 pm
....Don't worry too much guys, it's a get out clause and its application will depend on other factors. Milltek will always try to support their products but the line has to be drawn somewhere - You can't in fairness expect any company to automatically support any old mix 'n match.
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: QD MBE on February 08, 2010, 07:50:22 pm
I think Candy may have a point.  The Milltek cat and DP is a free flow system.  To mate that to a relatively restrictive OEM 2 box system may create a back pressure in the Cat, and hence raise the temperature in the cat, and hence raise the stress on the cat.

Would be interested to find out though.


:happy2:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: RedRobin on February 08, 2010, 08:32:57 pm
I think Candy may have a point.  The Milltek cat and DP is a free flow system.  To mate that to a relatively restrictive OEM 2 box system may create a back pressure in the Cat, and hence raise the temperature in the cat, and hence raise the stress on the cat.

Would be interested to find out though.

:happy2:


....You're absolutely right, Dave - That's exactly what can happen and if a component mix did result in a Cat failure, then Milltek would not be obliged to replace it under warranty.

That's why it depends on more precisely what the failure is or how caused, and hence the 'get out' clause.

Apart from trying to save money, IMO it's a fool's game to mix components, especially when a product has been designed and developed as a whole.
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: candy turbo on February 08, 2010, 08:50:04 pm
i was told this by milltek , the dp and cat is designed to be used with the cat back system if its used with any thing else warrenty is void , warrenty is for first customer too if you buy 2 nd hand warrenty is void too
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on February 09, 2010, 09:59:03 pm
Sounds like if the wind was blowing in a certain direction then the warranty would be void too  :fighting:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: stealthwolf on February 10, 2010, 08:09:24 am
All manufacturers of all products have certain limitations on their warranties/guarantees (where applicable).
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Greeners on February 10, 2010, 10:48:46 am
Shall we be clear on this...................

Are you saying the warranty on the cat-back is voided if fitted to OEM DP or the warranty on the OEM DP and cat if it overheats as a result of the new Miltek BB?  :confused:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 10, 2010, 10:52:48 am
u do know thats bollox guys as milltek should say to everyone do not fit these parts in stages and would only sell it as a complete system.vwr told me that its bollox too  :laugh:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: RedRobin on February 10, 2010, 11:00:22 am
^^^^
As Mat says, Milltek do not recommend mixing their parts with oem parts (I have spoken with Mr Milly many times about this, including this morning!). However they can't control what customers and some of their resellers do and they do need to manufacture both replacement and upgrade components.

Btw, any story you hear about Milltek being manufactured in China is complete and utter bollox! To quote Milltek's boss: "Over my dead body!" would he allow that to happen.
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 10, 2010, 11:02:45 am
no robin its the cats that were made in china have a look at yours  :smiley:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: RedRobin on February 10, 2010, 11:05:33 am

no robin its the cats that were made in china have a look at yours  :smiley:


....My Milly cat was made in Germany.

[searches for a pic of a pussycat in Nazi uniform]
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 10, 2010, 11:07:45 am
they changed them a while back to germany ie years ago
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 10, 2010, 11:12:24 am
http://www.hjs-motorsport.de/english/produkte_tuning.php

this is who make the cats for them
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Hedge on February 10, 2010, 11:16:18 am
Mine has a HJS cat ;)
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: RedRobin on February 10, 2010, 11:29:55 am
Without asking Mr Milly, I don't know exactly which German cat manufacturer they currently use but I remember him telling me about a year ago that they'd sourced a particularly good German one (and they ain't cheap!).

Did you know that Milltek are now producing titanium exhaust systems? But not for the Golf as they cost about three times the price and most Golf owners won't want to pay that kind of money.
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: candy turbo on February 10, 2010, 06:03:31 pm
Shall we be clear on this...................

Are you saying the warranty on the cat-back is voided if fitted to OEM DP or the warranty on the OEM DP and cat if it overheats as a result of the new Miltek BB?  :confused:
the cat back system is designed to fit with oem and milltek s dp / cat BUT  the milly dp / cat sholuld not be used with oem or any other manufactures cat back system or it will void the warrenty , thats what milltek told me so if im wrong so are they ! :happy2:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on February 10, 2010, 09:21:37 pm
All this fuss can be easily resolved by Milltek clearly and prominently labelling the DP and CAT BACK components, stating:  "Not to be used with other than a Milltek counterpart".


But guess what, they won't - cos a large chunk of their market will disappear!!!  :P
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: 182_blue on February 11, 2010, 10:42:04 am
So they sell a cat back system with a warranty they might not honor ?!!, surely the system should be designed to be used with the OEM system ? :confused:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: RedRobin on February 11, 2010, 11:50:29 am

So they sell a cat back system with a warranty they might not honor ?!!, surely the system should be designed to be used with the OEM system ? :confused:


....The wording publicly displayed by Milltek is quite clear about what components shouldn't be combined with what and consequently what constitutes a valid warranty issue.

Why should the Milltek exhaust system be designed to work with the oem exhaust system? In doing so it can compromise the performance which most of us buy a Milltek for.
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 11, 2010, 12:06:26 pm
it should not be sold as a cat back then as it will have no warranty and that would make it abit of a joke if u ask me and milltek should only sell full system pure and simple but how much would it cost em  :smiley:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: RedRobin on February 11, 2010, 12:22:18 pm
"Cat-back" refers to the exhaust system from after, and not including, the catalyst.

It's by having a choice of other Milltek components after the cat-back that a variety of sound levels can be offered - i.e. Resonated or Non-resonated and also the back box. The system also allows for a variety of exit pipe configurations and tips.

It's beginning to look as if some people are incapable of either reading Milltek's blurbs or contacting them to find out more.
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: stealthwolf on February 11, 2010, 01:00:16 pm
^^^I would still expect Milltek to write something along the lines "product suitable for use only with other milltek products" or "warning: using this item with non-Milltek products may invalidate the warranty".

As long as this accompanies the product description, it covers their back.

Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: RedRobin on February 11, 2010, 01:26:18 pm
^^^^
Milltek's 2010 brochure, which I have a copy of, does state words to that effect. So I expect their web site probably states either the same or similar.

Also, that Hi-flow catalysts are designed to run alongside exhaust specific software and should not be fitted to unmodified vehicles.
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: markymark on February 11, 2010, 02:00:12 pm
So when VWR offer there performance upgrade package what does this include? I thought it was a remap and a Milltek/VWR Cat Back? :confused:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Greeners on February 11, 2010, 02:01:46 pm
So when VWR offer there performance upgrade package what does this include? I thought it was a remap and a Milltek/VWR Cat Back? :confused:

Good point!  :chicken:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: QD MBE on February 11, 2010, 02:42:24 pm
So when VWR offer there performance upgrade package what does this include? I thought it was a remap and a Milltek/VWR Cat Back? :confused:

Good point!  :chicken:

Don't get mixed up.

If you put a cat back onto an OEM cat, the restricting factor is the OEM cat, which is ok, it will have no effect on the Milltek system.  If however yoiu fit a Milltek DP and cat onto an OEM cat back, the restricting factor becomes the OEM cat back, which will reduce the free flow allowed through the Cat due to the increased back pressure due to less free-flowing OEM system, this will increase the stress on the cat due to higher temperatures.

 :happy2:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: markymark on February 11, 2010, 02:50:37 pm
So when VWR offer there performance upgrade package what does this include? I thought it was a remap and a Milltek/VWR Cat Back? :confused:

Good point!  :chicken:

Don't get mixed up.

If you put a cat back onto an OEM cat, the restricting factor is the OEM cat, which is ok, it will have no effect on the Milltek system.  If however yoiu fit a Milltek DP and cat onto an OEM cat back, the restricting factor becomes the OEM cat back, which will reduce the free flow allowed through the Cat due to the increased back pressure due to less free-flowing OEM system, this will increase the stress on the cat due to higher temperatures.

 :happy2:
Thanks for clearing that up Dave, I think that fact was getting confused further up. I must admit I didnt see an issue mating an OEM Cat with a Milltek Cat Back! :happy2:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Greeners on February 11, 2010, 02:59:54 pm
So when VWR offer there performance upgrade package what does this include? I thought it was a remap and a Milltek/VWR Cat Back? :confused:

Good point!  :chicken:

Don't get mixed up.

If you put a cat back onto an OEM cat, the restricting factor is the OEM cat, which is ok, it will have no effect on the Milltek system.  If however yoiu fit a Milltek DP and cat onto an OEM cat back, the restricting factor becomes the OEM cat back, which will reduce the free flow allowed through the Cat due to the increased back pressure due to less free-flowing OEM system, this will increase the stress on the cat due to higher temperatures.

 :happy2:
Thanks for clearing that up Dave, I think that fact was getting confused further up. I must admit I didnt see an issue mating an OEM Cat with a Milltek Cat Back! :happy2:

Same here! Never heard of anyone putting a DP on a standard BB?  :stupid:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: QD MBE on February 11, 2010, 03:05:16 pm
Looking at fitting a milltek sports cat to my standard edition 30 exhaust system and am wondering what is required. Am i right in thinking i need the connecting pipe AND an a reducer to fit my original mid section ?  :confused:

Kev

OP

 :happy2:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Greeners on February 11, 2010, 03:06:23 pm
Looking at fitting a milltek sports cat to my standard edition 30 exhaust system and am wondering what is required. Am i right in thinking i need the connecting pipe AND an a reducer to fit my original mid section ?  :confused:

Kev

OP

 :happy2:

 :signLOL:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: candy turbo on February 11, 2010, 07:44:52 pm
So when VWR offer there performance upgrade package what does this include? I thought it was a remap and a Milltek/VWR Cat Back? :confused:

Good point!  :chicken:

Don't get mixed up.

If you put a cat back onto an OEM cat, the restricting factor is the OEM cat, which is ok, it will have no effect on the Milltek system.  If however yoiu fit a Milltek DP and cat onto an OEM cat back, the restricting factor becomes the OEM cat back, which will reduce the free flow allowed through the Cat due to the increased back pressure due to less free-flowing OEM system, this will increase the stress on the cat due to higher temperatures.

 :happy2:
at last some one understands  :laugh: :laugh:   quite a few guys on audi sport have fitted the dp/cat on to oem cat back cause its supposedly a free flowing system and keeps oem look :happy2:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: jmspear on February 28, 2010, 12:15:44 am
Does anyone know / have any experience of how restrictive the OE rear box actually is? In my experience of Porsche (completely different I know) systems very little performance (back pressure) difference between OE and aftermarket, mainly weight (a/m lighter) sound differences (a/m sportier = louder) and look, big oval tips etc.

I was actually looking at mating a sports cat / dp to an OEM back box because I want to keep as near as possible to OE sound (the wife drives the car a lot and refuses to drive my 993 with an a/m exhaust as she hates (with a passion) anything that makes any noise at all, and she uses the golf a lot so it must be as quiet as possible (but also as fast as possible  :evilgrin:)
and I want to not spend too many pennies.

I has assummed that the main point of the cat back exhaust was sound and looks as doesn't offer any real bhp benefit on its own (but maybe because the system is choked by the cat, and when the cat freed up the box becomes the choke??)

Am I completely mad sticking with the oe back box? Will it fry my cat and choke the stage 2 map? (tuning plan is ITG, Milltek sport cat / dp mated to OE system and superchips stage 2 remap to get about 260 HP)

Thanks

(wifes noise requirements (like none) are very high on the priority list, but not as high as my need for speed)
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 28, 2010, 12:45:06 am
defo dont get an open cone filter as they are loud and u can mate the dp + cat to oe back box easy and should sound good but not too loud
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: RedRobin on February 28, 2010, 09:44:39 am

(wifes noise requirements (like none) are very high on the priority list, but not as high as my need for speed)


....So which electric supercar are you getting?  :evilgrin:

A Warm Welcome to the forum, btw  :happy2:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: jmspear on February 28, 2010, 11:55:06 am
Thanks for the welcome. Yes if I could afford it a tesla would be nice (and a long extension lead  :laugh:)

I also have a black ed 30 with stage one superchips which I love as my daily driver, but wife is using this more and more and I get relegated to the std GTI so am looking to give it some more beans as it feels anaemic next to my (hers now?) superchipped ed 30
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: gobbleplease on February 28, 2010, 01:31:36 pm
Jesus 2 gtis ? are they the same colour, maybe you could swap number plates and badges and she wouldnt notice. :grin:

Yea porsches are a differant ball game mate, they generally are built to flow really well so gains from an exhaust are pretty hard to achieve

Turbo cars though, love exhuasts and filters. Ive got a blueflame exhaust and will be mating it to an itg, i dont think they are the quietest in the world though as mentioned,

I would say though from my memories that the miltek i had looked better quality than the BF
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: jmspear on February 28, 2010, 01:43:56 pm
I just love GTI's. Both are five doors, the ed 30 diamond black with tinted rear windows, the wifes GTI is red, the only mod on her one so far is - wait for it - a tow bar for my trials bikes, yes I love anything with an engine, have trials bikes, enduro ktm, 2 x gti's and a very heavily modded track 993, which I have had for 15 years and been modding for 10!!!). I used to have a car import business and specialised in A3's and GTI's GT TDI's (Mk IV and V) until the bottom fell out of the Euro, hence the VAG addiction.

She definitely notices the power difference, she likes the power more than me, just a bit shy and retiring (very stealth) hence wants it to be quiet. One of those quiet shy women drivers in the family car full of kids until you try and overtake, then bham, she unleashes the right foot. With all its mods my 993 runs 0 - 60 in 4.5s and tops out about 175 (tested at elvington on ax22 datalogger) she drove it back from the mot last week (she hadn't been in it for months) and said "Actually I had forgotten how much fun your porker was ( :laugh:  :wink:) just too noisy.

Thanks for advice on exhausts (going back to the post) but will i fry the cat if i keep the std back box?
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: gobbleplease on February 28, 2010, 01:52:04 pm
^^^^^^
Yip good little cars the gtis, i had a couple of m3s since my mk4 gti and forgot how fun they are, i love mine  :happy2:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Sunglasses Ron on February 28, 2010, 09:20:45 pm
Bit of a delay on this, but this is pretty much from the horses mouth (not that i'm calling Charlie a horse of course)...  :wink:



Hi Ben,

 

Sorry for the delay, I have been away on holiday!

 

We only recommend fitting the downpipe with the centre and rear section.


In testing we have found that the restriction of the OEM system has resulted in premature ageing of the catalyst substrate.

 

All the warranty information / FAQ can be find be clicking the link below

 

http://www.millteksport.com/exhaust.faqs.cfm


I hope that helps!

 

Many thanks


Charlie


Milltek Sport Ltd


 
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: chungster on February 28, 2010, 10:08:19 pm

Same here! Never heard of anyone putting a DP on a standard BB?  :stupid:

I'm sure vRStu did that on his S3? and it made an impressive improvement when it went on the DD roller at the SRR day last year.

330bhp I think - Revo S1 + DP only.
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: jmspear on March 01, 2010, 07:45:38 pm
Not to want to cause an argument between competing suppliers, but the advice received from MV sport today contradicts milltek......

Hi John
 
Thank you for your enquiry regarding an exhaust upgrade for your Golf 5 TFSi.
 
I can confirm that we can provide a sports catalytic converter and downpipe upgrade for your car that will mate onto the standard system. This will enable you to keep and sound difference to a minimum and retail a completely showroom standard look and yet still benefit from the performance increase offered by the downpipe upgrade.
 
The downpipe upgrade costs £xxx including vat and is available from stock. Delivery is £10 including vat.
 
Just for your interest I have attached a copy of our latest press release which gives full details of both our exhaust and software upgrades for your car.
 
If you do need any more information or would like to order, please just ask.
 
Best Regards
 
Mike
MV Sport Sales Team

So my considered view is that it could last less time, you will have a more difficult job getting it sorted under warranty if it goes wrong, but you don't really need to go the whole hog and buy a complete system. I think I will start with just the downpipe and 100 cell cat, and if money allows upgrade cat back later.

John
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: bowie on June 03, 2010, 02:22:42 pm
So did anyone answer the OPs question on this?   Does the Milltek catback come with the connector pipe ?

Chris.
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Gene Hunt on June 03, 2010, 02:33:27 pm
So did anyone answer the OPs question on this?   Does the Milltek catback come with the connector pipe ?

Chris.
.......''yes'' mate it does. :happy2:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: bowie on June 03, 2010, 02:39:57 pm
 :happy2:

Chris.
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Saint Steve on June 03, 2010, 05:41:40 pm
So did anyone answer the OPs question on this?   Does the Milltek catback come with the connector pipe ?

Chris.
erh my cat back didnt. Only if your buying the full system it will.
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: MAT ED30 on June 03, 2010, 07:05:00 pm
mine did so you got stuffed  :P  :booty:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Gene Hunt on June 03, 2010, 08:16:58 pm
mine did so you got stuffed  :P  :booty:
........as above so did mine,hence the reason for me answering the above post. :smiley:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Sunglasses Ron on June 03, 2010, 09:27:08 pm
So did anyone answer the OPs question on this?   Does the Milltek catback come with the connector pipe ?

Chris.
erh my cat back didnt. Only if your buying the full system it will.

You got yours off Ebay though didn't you Steve? Maybe the reason..
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Saint Steve on June 03, 2010, 09:40:17 pm
So did anyone answer the OPs question on this?   Does the Milltek catback come with the connector pipe ?

Chris.
erh my cat back didnt. Only if your buying the full system it will.

You got yours off Ebay though didn't you Steve? Maybe the reason..

Ben, the Cat back was brought from JKM brand new. Im guessing if you buy just the DP, it'll come with connecting peice.Whereas , i did Catback 1st, then my Bargain Bucket downpipe 2nd, which i purchased a connecting pipe so it would fit.
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Saint Steve on June 03, 2010, 09:46:59 pm
mine did so you got fisted  :P


 :innocent:
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Sunglasses Ron on June 03, 2010, 09:51:25 pm
So did anyone answer the OPs question on this?   Does the Milltek catback come with the connector pipe ?

Chris.
erh my cat back didnt. Only if your buying the full system it will.

You got yours off Ebay though didn't you Steve? Maybe the reason..

Ben, the Cat back was brought from JKM brand new. Im guessing if you buy just the DP, it'll come with connecting peice.Whereas , i did Catback 1st, then my Bargain Bucket downpipe 2nd, which i purchased a connecting pipe so it would fit.

I'll get my coat..  :chicken: :ashamed: Course you did mate, it was the DP from Ebay wasn't it..
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Gene Hunt on June 03, 2010, 10:15:58 pm
So did anyone answer the OPs question on this?   Does the Milltek catback come with the connector pipe ?

Chris.
erh my cat back didnt. Only if your buying the full system it will.

You got yours off Ebay though didn't you Steve? Maybe the reason..
...........so did i. A1 motorsport i think is the seller?.
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: bowie on June 03, 2010, 10:40:44 pm
@ Steve, what downpipe have you got then ?

Chris.
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Saint Steve on June 03, 2010, 10:45:33 pm
@ Steve, what downpipe have you got then ?

Chris.

I have the 200 cell high flow sports cat and downpipe from Milltek.
Couple to a Non res Catback section for the rear.
Title: Re: Milltek question ?
Post by: Gene Hunt on June 03, 2010, 10:48:33 pm
Sat morning 10.15 if you missed it.