Post by: v4rley on October 29, 2017, 09:11:22 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi68.tinypic.com%2F2hp6e08.png&hash=0a5f5e645bbce21ddd4cb95ef088081e94238b98)
The car was smoke tested on the day and a good going over by the team there.
I’m left trying to figure out the issue. Would this appear to be turbo problem?
Post by: pudding on October 30, 2017, 10:34:52 am
Post by: Dan_FR on October 30, 2017, 10:44:42 am
Post by: v4rley on October 30, 2017, 02:09:47 pm
@Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) yeah they were my logs.
Brief history of the car I have had it for 5 year, already had a stage one quantum when i got it. Mainly the wife’s car but I occasionally give it a good drive now and again. On this map it was running 95% N75. Maybe to my perral I have had the bcs and intake in for the last two year on the original map and on WOT it would have black smoke when the boost kicked in.
Niki said the actuator wasn’t the sloppiest he had seem but obviously this was only a manual check from under the car with a bar reaching up in. Other suggestions was that the tips on the turbo have melted
I have only just got my head around logging so haven’t got any earlier ones to compare to. I find it strange that the boost seems to follow with a consistent -4psi
Post by: Dan_FR on October 30, 2017, 02:29:55 pm
Turbine tips can be examined by removing the downpipe, compressor side can be examined with a cheap borescope. If you dont have a boost leak, and are running at 100%DC and not making the boost (and airflow - MAF reading?) then it can only be some form of turbo problem. Extra preload on the actuator can help rule that out, so probably worth trying
Post by: v4rley on October 30, 2017, 03:56:52 pm
His first concern was that I had installed DV relocation kit (k04 style) same as here (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17736.0) Say that he had never seen it done before. So he suggested I started by putting back to oem (which I have) and still logs the same. He did spend some time looking at various aspects and trying to sort it but obviously limited time available.
He has loaded the 5 map thing and these log are in #5 so haven’t logged or know what the N75 request is on the others.
Ok haven’t logged the MAF will do that on my next logging session, would this have been looked at whilst mapping ?
To add preload I guess that’s adjusting the bolts on the actuator rod is that feasible with it still on the car?
Post by: ROH ECHT on October 30, 2017, 04:42:03 pm
Check the N75...one of the three nipples could be cracked or have loose hoses attached.
The WG preload is likely not what's failed...but not one to rule out just yet.
Post by: v4rley on October 30, 2017, 09:49:41 pm
Post by: v4rley on October 30, 2017, 09:53:14 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.tinypic.com%2F334rbwx.jpg&hash=76d5582660b2f5f0191d0f2629d25168dab4a4ec)
Checked the N75 all seem fine with no damage to nipples and still oem clips intact and firm
Dv and pipework appear fine
Rear pcv again doesn’t seem to be crack or any damage
Post by: ROH ECHT on October 31, 2017, 12:00:41 am
Nothing points towards leaks in the LTFT. It runs a bit rich...below 0.82 actual is a bit rich and LTFT multiplicative also confirms richness at -1.6% additive. Low pressure pump dips below the 4 bar minimum.
It is not common for the WG actuator diaphragm to tear...but the spring inside the actuator may have weakened. You may try adding WG preload, but it is tough doing on a K03 vs a K04...but can be done. Look up vids on how to change WG preload for guidance or I can help with questions. The thing is, is if you do make an adjustment and find it getting better...likely would want to start thinking about removing the turbo and give it a thorough inspection and possibly end up replacing the WG actuator. So, might as well be prepared for a new turbo with actuator included.
Post by: v4rley on October 31, 2017, 07:11:36 am
I did acquire a second hand k03 the other day as it was on my travels as I can have a good look at that in the garage before attempting the one on the car.
The fuelling situation would the be a situation as this is only a base map so hasn’t been fine turned for optimum efficiency?
Post by: Dan_FR on October 31, 2017, 08:06:43 am
If it were my car, the next thing I would do personally is remove the vacuum pipe to the actuator and take it for a drive, with the laptop on and keeping a VERY close eye on the boost reading. In theory it should drive exactly the same in terms of peak boost and performance, but there's a chance it could not and you could see turbo shattering boost levels at lower rpm
I'd also go with checking the wheels for any damage, melted tips etc. as its fairly easy to do, and if they look OK and the pipe removal yielded no significant change, I'd re-attach it and then add a fair bit of preload to try it out and see how you get on - you can always back it off at a later date if its a little much
19PSI peak with 100% N75DC (based on previous graph/log), without a leak, is definitely a turbo problem. This little turbo could easily peak at over the MAP sensor limit of 1.5Bar by 3k RPM if all were ok
Also, just an FYI - my K03 2+ can hit and maintain the requested boost levels in this map, so they are achievable and are what you should be aiming for
Post by: v4rley on October 31, 2017, 10:25:44 am
So tonight’s plan is to remove the actuator boost feed and see what is achieved. Would I be ok montering this is polar fsi? Just a bit easier to do whilst driving.
I have just ordered a borescope so will get onto this once it has arrive.
Post by: pudding on October 31, 2017, 10:47:16 am
It drove OK though, but when I inspected it, all of the inducer blades on the compressor wheel were chewed to pieces. Obviously something harder than aluminum made it's way through the intake! Bye bye 1 x expensive GT3071R turbo :doh: Niki posted a pic on the TFSI group ages ago of the exact same thing on a MK6 R that wouldn't make the usual power........but people love their plant pot on the end of a pipe intakes don't they.
As per Dan, god knows what that HPFP spike is all about (EGT / component protection map kicking in perhaps), but you are running some crazy AFRs. Mid 11s in places. Waaaaaaaay to rich for DI. ~12.8 is where it needs to be, otherwise it defeats the purpose of DI. Mid 11s is old port injection nonsense because tuners were too afraid to tune for power. No need for that at all on TFSIs.
Anyway, I'm not convinced it's an actuator problem. I think the turbo is worn out / damaged personally, but keep us posted!
P.S. What app do you use to make those nice graphs from the VCDS logs?
Post by: v4rley on October 31, 2017, 12:32:51 pm
As mentioned earlier thing is I don’t often drive the car and usually with the family when I do so not often it gets driven hard, maybe this has prolonged the issue turbo life
Yeah I have know idea about fuel trims / afr Niki did say about over fuelling may have cause the turbo to overheat and damaged the fins.
Ah the logs! They are with thanks to @dazza (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10457) for writing the program to do the graphs, although it took me a while how to figure out how to use it! guide here (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,88889.0.html)
Post by: Pesky jones on October 31, 2017, 12:55:01 pm
Pudding - gutted about the turbo! Im assuming from your plant pot intake comment you run a standard airbox - which has a gauze either before or after the MAF so essentially two safeguards for stuff entering the turbo.
Post by: dazza on October 31, 2017, 02:19:20 pm
Ah the logs! They are with thanks to @dazza (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10457) for writing the program to do the graphs, although it took me a while how to figure out how to use it! guide here (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,88889.0.html)
Glad to see this feature being used it took a while to build that.
Post by: Pesky jones on October 31, 2017, 02:26:07 pm
Ah the logs! They are with thanks to @dazza (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10457) for writing the program to do the graphs, although it took me a while how to figure out how to use it! guide here (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,88889.0.html)
Glad to see this feature being used it took a while to build that.
Its brilliant - I use it a lot. I just edit and save the existing posts, as I dont want to clutter up peoples "new posts" with long posts
Post by: ROH ECHT on October 31, 2017, 04:33:50 pm
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4231/35574442181_e5c8cc0eff.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WcAjgp)
Post by: v4rley on October 31, 2017, 07:53:10 pm
So next steps will be to inspect the wheels for damage, and then having a go with preload unless that is now obsolete with tonight’s results?
Post by: Dan_FR on October 31, 2017, 09:25:58 pm
Wheel inspection and preload next
Post by: v4rley on October 31, 2017, 09:45:53 pm
Post by: ROH ECHT on November 01, 2017, 07:26:04 am
Post by: pudding on November 01, 2017, 11:02:03 am
Good to see you're on track to narrowing down the issue! You've got some great help - sure you'll get it sorted.
Pudding - gutted about the turbo! Im assuming from your plant pot intake comment you run a standard airbox - which has a gauze either before or after the MAF so essentially two safeguards for stuff entering the turbo.
I do indeed. The gauze is before the MAF and it's just to straighten the airflow for accurate readings, I doubt it would stop a stone or a flicked up nail or something. There is no way anything would find it's way through the labyrinth of the OEM airbox. I think what happened with my GT3071R was something small got sucked through the cotton gauze and took out the inducer blades. It sounds far fetched, but if hold up a cotton pleat filter to the sky, you can clearly see daylight through it. Every time I've used cotton, both the MAF and impeller blades have been filthy compared to paper.....it's a ticking time bomb.
Cotton is crap. Foam or paper. Paper is way too tight to get anything through it, and foam is very dense and would trap a piece of grit like fly paper.
Post by: pudding on November 01, 2017, 11:04:49 am
Post by: v4rley on November 01, 2017, 03:38:47 pm
Post by: Pesky jones on November 01, 2017, 04:25:35 pm
Post by: pudding on November 02, 2017, 10:02:43 am
Yeah this data stuff is a bit technical for me but didn’t think the cylinder graph looked great :sad1: I guess this need mapping to sort? as apposed self sorting once the boost issue is sorted?
What map is on it currently? Quantum? I've not heard of that. Is it a switchable map allowing you to load a 'stock like' map?
I'm just conscious it might be a wasted day going to R-Tech with these issues because it might not be software related. It rarely is. A map is a map. The hardware is usually always obedient to commands, so long as they are not pushed too far.
How far is Hinckley from you? If it's a fair distance, I would be tempted to get your VW dealer to wipe the ECU and reflash it with the OEM map. Then repeat the logging and see if things fall back to where they are supposed to be. Do a compression test as well, and check all the sensors etc, including the cam sensor which can get covered in sward, and then the ECU runs the 'rough running' map.
Personally, I would only go for a dyno map knowing my engine is 100%. It saves your time and money, and their's too. As I said previously, no mapper can fix hardware problems with software. They can attempt to work around them, but it's just a band aid. A reflash back to stock will confirm the hardware is good or bad.....but it'll cost you an hour's labour. That might be cheaper than having Niki troubleshoot it all day.
Post by: v4rley on November 02, 2017, 12:22:35 pm
After arriving at rtech for a noon booking it appeared that I had somehow arrived in big turbo week, so wasn’t idea for them. But they got straight on it, Niki didn’t like the dv relocation one bit and got a bit of a negative vibe. But after a couple more hours of playing with leak testing, strong dv springs time was up and i had the family with me towards the end so I had to get on and depart swiftly at 5pm.
My brief understanding is that the maps get progressively more ‘agressive’ he said to go with 5 as not much to loose as demands not being furfilled anyway. I will speak to him more specific but wanted to try and source the problem before hassling him as to make the most of a call.
It’s some distance away at 200mls and a ferry :sad1:
Perhaps whilst awaiting the weekend events I should do a quick log on map 1 to see what the difference is? Which of these APR logs (http://www.goapr.co.uk/support/datalogging.php) would give the best insight?
Post by: pudding on November 02, 2017, 02:00:45 pm
Yeah you could try a logging session with the least aggressive map. Map 1 should be the same as standard. Most tuners use a 'stock like' map and not the actual code VW uploaded to the ECU, so it may not drive exactly like a standard car.
VCDS can only log up to 12 channels at once iirc, so we can drop the ignition retard channels for the stock like map, so go with:
Engine speed
Lambda regulator (current value)
Lambda - req
Lambda - act
throttle plate angle
Pedal angle
high pressure fuel - req
high pressure fuel - act
Boost - req
Boost - actu
Intake temp
MAF
Give that a whirl and see what you get!
Post by: v4rley on November 02, 2017, 08:01:33 pm
Ok I didn’t choose the best measuring block but hey some are ok. Interesting one I think is the boost let me know what it means 😂
Ok so the graphs are grouped, there are 4 runs. Map 1 then 1 then 3 then 5 (as all previous logging)
Sure you guys know but buy clicking on the point on the graph it tells you the value at that point as my first rpm and maf combo doesn’t work well together
Map 1 run 1
Map1 run 2
Map 3
Map5
Post by: pudding on November 03, 2017, 09:54:13 am
If you go to Engine > Advanced ID in VCDS, what numbers do you have showing for Flash attempts and successful flash attempts? Just wondering if your ECU is corrupted.
Post by: v4rley on November 04, 2017, 02:58:20 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi68.tinypic.com%2F6r6m34.jpg&hash=b2bf8d1abb123b0b54744bb854745e38491fcdf2)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi68.tinypic.com%2Fxeokug.jpg&hash=9da0dc3cc3925e19f6f25c92a2d4f97bf3b06bdd)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.tinypic.com%2F2v1ueci.jpg&hash=3f8805bafc5b6444dab037a6deb44a8a06793cde)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.tinypic.com%2F33m6fl4.jpg&hash=f3a5a1d874d3baf3443f4ed6f376e3c7a10fedac)
Post by: v4rley on November 04, 2017, 03:41:45 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.tinypic.com%2F2v92dk4.jpg&hash=1cd542ec4cabe8cfa8b5fa6215e4c7a3680bd2b2)
Post by: v4rley on November 04, 2017, 09:17:29 pm
Post by: pudding on November 06, 2017, 11:40:51 am
Maybe the boost is lower because the engine isn't running optimally? Just thinking cylinder 4 is not happy at all with all that ignition pull. Perhaps you have a bad injector and it's running lean. The onset of boost is sluggish as well as not hitting the requests....... I think get the ignition pull sorted and it might return back to normal health.
Post by: Dan_FR on November 06, 2017, 12:13:20 pm
As for the timing pull, have you actually logged how much timing you are running at the same time so we can see how much timing you're actually getting? Can't say I've seen it in any of the logs? I don't think the timing pull is the cause of the turbo or performance issue at all. The throttle isn't closing so the car isn't THAT unhappy. I've personally seen that level of timing pull during some logging/testing/tweaking of Revo software on my own car and it most definitely did not pull back boost levels as a result
Would have expected the actuator tweak to help a lot more if it was the cause of the problem.
Silly question, but have you checked to see if you have the correct MAP sensor fitted to the car? Your MAF values are good, and you say there's no leak, so I'm wondering if the wrong sensor is fitted.... a 3 Bar sensor fitted to a 2.5 bar calibration will make the ECU see lower boost than you actually have..
E.G. You could see several hundred mbar difference between the two sensors. Don't suppose you have an aftermarket gauge plumbed in to the inlet manifold?
Post by: pudding on November 06, 2017, 12:24:49 pm
That amount of pull is not good. I get -2 KW at the most running a lot more boost than that. I'd be looking to get that as close to zero as possible before going any further.....personally.
Post by: Dan_FR on November 06, 2017, 12:46:34 pm
The amount of correction is based on the severity of the knock detected and will depend entirely on the requested ignition timing - its not comparable on different cars & setups. Its not ideal but the ECU can deal with up to 12CF so its not an issue for the purposes of this diagnosis. At 2CF you probably have no real knocking going on and you may not even have any reduction in timing, its just a Correction Factor and does not directly translate to X amount of degrees of timing retardation
Anything up to 5CF for short periods is fine anyway based on what I have seen over the years from many logs and heard from tuners themselves, 2CF at most tells me you have a safe map with headroom for more, but again it depends on a lot - ambient conditions, whether your 2CF peak was after a single run or after repeated back to back runs for maximum heat etc.
Off topic a little, sorry! :signLOL:
Post by: v4rley on November 06, 2017, 12:50:37 pm
I cheated and use the lambda for the exhaust side, did consider removing the downpipe for inspecting the play maybe something to consider. With regards to the play i have a k03 in the garage, when I put the airline into the cold side it spun the wheels but when I replicate this on the car it didn’t, although not sure if that is just due to the resistance from the one on the car having oil / coolant amounts it.
All my logs are on this thread so haven’t got the timing ones. Can you point me in the direction of which measuring blocks and I’ll log them tonight.
I had a rare misfire issue months ago, mainly at low speed and usually over speed bump, this was cylinder 4 and maybe also 2. The injectors were replaced with a freshly cleaned set prior to mapping
Post by: Dan_FR on November 06, 2017, 12:53:45 pm
I don't think it is relevant at all to the problem you are having
Not comparable on the car as the turbo may no be able to spin as the TB will be shut so the air has nowhere to go unfortunately.
Post by: v4rley on November 06, 2017, 12:59:04 pm
Post by: v4rley on November 06, 2017, 01:27:59 pm
Post by: Dan_FR on November 06, 2017, 01:53:14 pm
But the specified shown is achievable on a K03 on 100%DC. Mine peaks at around 1.3-1.4 bar and tails off to 0.8-0.9 bar at the redline
Post by: v4rley on November 06, 2017, 04:14:19 pm
So on the latest set of boost logs (after preload tweak) my peak is the same / higher than yours but is a good 3-4psi lower at the redline.
Post by: pudding on November 06, 2017, 04:40:18 pm
Negligible effect on boost levels and wouldn't cause a 4 PSI deficit across the RPM range - based on my own experience with a K03. Besides, looking at the log, the knock level is not constant and it is peaking, most likely at a certain load/RPM so wouldn't explain the drop across the entire rev range
The amount of correction is based on the severity of the knock detected and will depend entirely on the requested ignition timing - its not comparable on different cars & setups. Its not ideal but the ECU can deal with up to 12CF so its not an issue for the purposes of this diagnosis. At 2CF you probably have no real knocking going on and you may not even have any reduction in timing, its just a Correction Factor and does not directly translate to X amount of degrees of timing retardation
Anything up to 5CF for short periods is fine anyway based on what I have seen over the years from many logs and heard from tuners themselves, 2CF at most tells me you have a safe map with headroom for more, but again it depends on a lot - ambient conditions, whether your 2CF peak was after a single run or after repeated back to back runs for maximum heat etc.
Off topic a little, sorry! :signLOL:
Aye, I was just concerned that amount of knock isn't healthy in the peak cylinder pressure zone. 'CF' was more ME7. Timing delayed in .75 degree chunks every XX crank rotations until it stopped. MED9 is different. The KW shown in the knock regulation activity is the actual degrees pulled.
Anyway, it seems like the hardware is good, which was the initial concern.
Post by: v4rley on November 06, 2017, 04:52:26 pm
Will do some logs later, anything else to try / investigate?
Post by: v4rley on November 06, 2017, 07:42:04 pm
Post by: pudding on November 07, 2017, 12:05:38 pm
I find the graphs a bit hard to read without rpm or load on the horizontal axis!
Post by: v4rley on November 07, 2017, 12:22:41 pm
Understand about the lack of rpm on the graph, not sure if I’m not including in the log or the way it’s programmed @dazza (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10457)
Any suggestions what to try next?
Post by: pudding on November 07, 2017, 02:37:28 pm
I'm guessing all the dips are you changing gear / slowing down?
Ideally, a nice 10 second burst of full throttle in 4th would be good to see if everything matches the targets, but it's not always doable on the roads!
Post by: v4rley on November 07, 2017, 02:51:30 pm
Ok I am great full for the help from everyone and appreciate its a limited being diagonosed over a forum but just try to ensure I have exhausted all possible avenues.
Post by: pudding on November 07, 2017, 02:59:44 pm
Yeah internet diagnosis is tricky!
Post by: MIJ_JAGGER on November 07, 2017, 03:28:02 pm
Legends Dan and Pud will see this sorted hopefully!
Good luck James mate
Post by: Pesky jones on November 07, 2017, 03:56:00 pm
Is it infact that the above graphs are of one, constant pull?
Is it worth noting that lambda stays at 0.8ish throughout the pull, it doesnt rise up back to one (as would be expected if letting off the throttle)
Post by: pudding on November 07, 2017, 04:31:55 pm
We might have to resort to reading the data row by row in Excel......which I hate.....so Dan can do it :grin:
Post by: v4rley on November 07, 2017, 04:35:18 pm
Thanks for the kind words @MIJ_JAGGER (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=16715)
Post by: pudding on November 07, 2017, 04:37:28 pm
Post by: pudding on November 07, 2017, 04:39:22 pm
Post by: v4rley on November 15, 2017, 11:25:02 am
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2F2dlp3bl.jpg&hash=13d0474b321b45a944b3d830b1989fa9f6de0242)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.tinypic.com%2Fvcxg06.jpg&hash=68818715224d729d2a1d1185a3fc150e65de7c6b)
Post by: pudding on November 21, 2017, 04:52:19 pm
I'm losing track of all this. In your other thread it seemed like you were getting there with the boost targeting and the graphs were looking good?
Post by: v4rley on November 21, 2017, 05:06:48 pm
So yeah it’s all got a bit muddled with different graphs, these are bumped from inside this thread as I’m trying to tidy up the graphs a bit now I can sort rpm out.
but yes we are getting somewhere, once I have the preload wound off a bit tonight, I’ll get some nice new graphs loaded :happy2:
Post by: v4rley on November 21, 2017, 09:16:32 pm
MAP 3
MAP 1
Post by: v4rley on November 21, 2017, 09:18:23 pm
Logged map 5 to show fuel pressure
Post by: v4rley on November 21, 2017, 09:53:30 pm
These are back to back runs all 4th gear
Ok, so do you think I should tweak the preload to achieve nearer 22psi peak on map 5?
Fuel pressure is still peaking high but this I guess is down to the RS4 valve.
Post by: Dan_FR on November 22, 2017, 07:36:21 am
Do you want to get it set up perfectly for the current map as it is now with a flat 100% Dc, or get it set up to what will be ideal for when you go back?
For now, I think maybe you've gone a little bit too far back, but you're certainly not far away. Before going back to R-Tech I'd be either finding a new actuator or whacking on another turn or so of preload so you have all the boost available you could need, and Niki can manage the low RPM boost spike by fettling the N75 map for the higher map settings
Post by: ROH ECHT on November 22, 2017, 08:11:49 am
I just recently helped another having his WGDC remain at full capacity. He made adjustments adding preload and he too got close. But, I asked him to check his PCV and all its tubing as well. He found that his rear breather tube wasn't completely tightened to the turbo inlet. Once he fixed that, he had to lessen the preload again and the WGDC returned to normal operation. I may have said all of this before, but going to repeat myself if so.
It may be a good idea to check the PCV(if running one) and all the connections from the intake manifold to the turbo. If nothing is found there...give the boost plumbing another going over and inspect all its connections. DV is good I assume? I do not think you have a bad N75 or connections to and from it. It seems more related to an improper connection somewhere.
Post by: pudding on November 22, 2017, 09:50:53 am
That fuel rail spike is weird on map 5. I don't think that is the cause of the spike but something is forcing it to exceed it's 136 bar crack pressure, it relives the rail pressure then tries to go back up there again before the limiter kicks in, which seems to correspond with the momentary lean off on the lambda past 6000. Odd.
There's still a lot of ignition retard going on, even on map 1, which shouldn't be there at this time of year!
Post by: v4rley on November 22, 2017, 10:35:14 am
@Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) I was thinking to get it to peak around 22psi on map 5 so it is reaching its full potential them maybe running the car on map 4 until I was to revisit niki. So will add a bit of preload tonight
@ROH ECHT (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3794) did wonder where you had got to. I will double check the pcv, everything was check at the time of mapping so confident they gave everything a good check and there hasn’t be deterioration since, but I will check this all again, assuming it can only be physically checked as not sure on pressure testing methods.
@Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) as above all plumbing was checked at rtech and again since my return, I will take another look to confirm.
Don’t really get the fuel issue, does this present a problem?
Any thing to investigate/ inspect for the ignition retard ?
Post by: Dan_FR on November 22, 2017, 10:48:37 am
The fuel spike is explained if you are DSG - Its normal with an R-Tech map when approaching a gearshift, has been explained before.
The only difference between map 3 and 5 is the N75 map controlling turbo pressure - everything else including the timing requests are the same. The Map 3 log above with shed loads of preload is seeing the boost and airflow levels we are aiming for in Map 5 so the level of correction and timing pull isn't a concern in my mind.
Post by: v4rley on November 22, 2017, 10:58:49 am
Post by: pudding on November 22, 2017, 01:51:09 pm
Seems strange to request more rail pressure than the stock FRPV can handle, but what evs......if that's an R-Tech/DSG thing, fair enough.
Post by: v4rley on November 22, 2017, 10:06:34 pm
Post by: pudding on November 23, 2017, 11:51:13 am
Do R-Tech keep copies of customer's maps on their computer? If they do, I'd be tempted to get it flashed back to stock and repeat the tests, personally......just to outrule any hardware shenanigans. Flashed back to stock properly, as in at a dealer with their ODIS interface. Wipe the slate clean. The 'stock' maps tuners user aren't stock at all, but some low boost variation of it......probably pulled off a website like NefMofo.
If you still see the same issues, you need to sort them before getting R-Tech to bung the map back on. I think at the moment there's a lot of variables and reverting back to stock removes the software element out of the troubleshooting.
Having said that, things aren't looking horrendous by any means. Just more timing pull than usual and boost a little shy of requested.
Post by: v4rley on November 23, 2017, 11:55:01 am
Post by: pudding on November 23, 2017, 12:03:32 pm
Post by: v4rley on November 23, 2017, 12:38:07 pm
Post by: pudding on November 23, 2017, 01:44:08 pm
Post by: Dan_FR on November 23, 2017, 01:48:26 pm
Post by: v4rley on November 23, 2017, 03:15:55 pm
Post by: ROH ECHT on November 24, 2017, 04:41:25 am
Thanks guys.Have you replaced the knock sensors ever?(http://cdn4.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Volkswagen_Golf_GTI_Mk_V/48-ENGINE-Knock_Sensors_Replacement/images_small/pic01.jpg)
@Dan_FR (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9513) I was thinking to get it to peak around 22psi on map 5 so it is reaching its full potential them maybe running the car on map 4 until I was to revisit niki. So will add a bit of preload tonight
@ROH ECHT (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3794) did wonder where you had got to. I will double check the pcv, everything was check at the time of mapping so confident they gave everything a good check and there hasn’t be deterioration since, but I will check this all again, assuming it can only be physically checked as not sure on pressure testing methods.
@Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) as above all plumbing was checked at rtech and again since my return, I will take another look to confirm.
Don’t really get the fuel issue, does this present a problem?
Any thing to investigate/ inspect for the ignition retard ?
This is one thing that can, when failing to provide an accurate signal to the ECU, cause the ECU to pull more timing and reduce boost. Something to research if the air/boost leakage search fails to find fault. I would seriously consider replacing if nothing comes of searching and testing. They could be partially failing but not enough to code yet.
Post by: rtechniki on November 24, 2017, 11:47:33 am
Post by: rtechniki on November 24, 2017, 12:00:26 pm
This is way we tell every customer to log and get a full health check on there car prior to booking a mapping session, if you logged it prior and saw the turbo was flat out and still not hitting decent boost / power we could have looked at the logs and told you its a waste of time coming in for a map as you wont be getting a massive hike in power.
Post by: ROH ECHT on November 25, 2017, 01:23:16 am
It has to be a component failing or loss of boost/air issue. I missed "how you tested the WG" as mentioned but you should have adjusted and added preload to see if there was any increase. If you do/did see an increase but still failing to match target boost...you need to find why. If you do not do so yourself and instead take it to a shop, they may not investigate as thoroughly as one needs to to locate the cause.
When the N75 fails, most of the time actual boost doesn't make target, drops very low, and then climbs a bit. WGDC usually looks normal though.
When WGDC is always at a high target, it usually means a loss of boost or air somewhere. Not common it is the WG actuator diaphragm...which can be tested for a tear by adding pressure and holding it while checking if pressure is lost using a gauge.
Checking for leaks or loose seals; intake to throttle body and intake manifold to turbo inlet; requires smoke or pressure testing. Some sections may need to be plugged at opposite end of point of inducing smoke or pressure.
Post by: v4rley on November 26, 2017, 11:36:38 am
Weighing up options, a new actuator is £130 plus needing to remove the turbo to fit. I have a borgwarner k04 in the garage that’s brand new so thinking if I got to remove the turbo anyway I might as well go for it. Atleast I will then know it’s a new complete new turbo unit.
Post by: pudding on November 27, 2017, 11:06:27 am
Post by: ROH ECHT on June 22, 2019, 03:08:43 am
Ok so to keep everything update, obviously spoke to Niki and he kindly provided the above info, i couldn’t remember such a in-depth conversation about the preload but this does appear to be the issue.Just to add...The guy I mentioned having a loose rear breather and it fixed his issue...well, recently he went to a big turbo. He was having an issue again with boost. WGDC was always near 92% and boost would not meet the target boost. He found that the WG actuator provided with his turbo had a weak spring in it. This is when adding more preload will do absolutely nothing more...as the Actuator spring is allowing the WG to open prematurely. I wonder if you ever resolved this and what was found to be the fix.
Weighing up options, a new actuator is £130 plus needing to remove the turbo to fit. I have a borgwarner k04 in the garage that’s brand new so thinking if I got to remove the turbo anyway I might as well go for it. Atleast I will then know it’s a new complete new turbo unit.
Post by: v4rley on June 23, 2019, 08:06:26 am
I’m afraid to admit I became a bit disheartened with the situation. Although I still enjoy the car it really it is showing its age. Rusting , lacquer peel and now it’s on the daily school runs it steadily accumulating its dings too.
So apart from the above fiddling with the WG I have just let it be :sad1:
Post by: ROH ECHT on June 24, 2019, 01:00:03 am
I know about having an unexplainable issue...where you have to replace $#!@t in a process of elimination. I still haven't sorted out why my fuel rail pressure only specifies 110 bar when it should be 140 bar. After more than two years of digging and working with GIAC, nothing. I can only assume, because I went from GIAC to DriverMotorsport(DM) to GIAC again. When I was using the DM tune, I did a couple of swaps. One being I added a Forge WG Actuator for the K04 because their tune was at 26 PSI and the stock WG Actuator was having trouble staying closed so to build the boost when added preload didn't help. The other was I went catless. So those two are my focus now. I plan to get a new K04 turbo and that will have the oem actuator...and then I am going to get another catted DP.
Anyhow, I was trying to help someone with a similar issue to yours. He recently had his 2006 GTI (w/K03) tuned, but it only boosts to 17 psi and tapers down to 10 psi. Still working with him and he says there are no leaks and the DV and N75 have been replaced. But I have yet to see his boost data which he promised soon. I am leaning on it being the WG is loose to not seal when shut, the WG actuator spring is not strong enough or it needs more preload.
Sad to hear yours has been on a rough road as of late...hope you have a pick-me-up soon. Mine is luckily been able to be driven less...approximately 2500 miles per year and it is still being garaged...but it is looking to need near $4000usd in parts soon. It's a long list. :confused:
This was a month ago...can't believe I have had it for near 13 years now.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48117078683_4966ac9a35.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2giWB7T)