MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Christiank on April 03, 2018, 02:09:24 pm
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Hi, does anyone in here know if the Passat B6 alloy wishbones and hubs make you a few inches wider than if you're using the Audi TT mk2 ones? :thinking:
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Hi, does anyone in here know if the Passat B6 alloy wishbones and hubs make you a few inches wider than if you're using the Audi TT mk2 ones? :thinking:
Those are the same as the S3 hubs. TT have different hubs.
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So is it the hub that you get the extra track width from or the arms ?
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So is it the hub that you get the extra track width from or the arms ?
I can't remember exactly but IIRC the TT has specific hubs and arms and you get the extra track width from the hubs but you also need longer steering column arms when you retrofit the TT hubs and arms.
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AH ok makes sense :happy2:
I have ttrs ( not sure there’s a difference to normal TT?) control arms and ball joint/camber adjuster on my gti but standard hubs and steering rack ect .... just trying to figure out if my track width has changed from standard or not .....
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Measure your length, ooer, and I’m compare with mine :smiley:
I’ve never seen wide track without longer arms because they are what control the roll center. Doing it with a wider hub is no different to spacers, but with VAG, who knows, anything is possible!
I believe the TTRS has a shorter steering rack and longer tie rods to compensate for the extra length, or maybe the other way round. Speak to Alex at AKS, he’s done it on his VRS I believe.
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That info is available in this forum in a topic about the different hubs and control arms for the PQ35 chassis. Have a look around the forum. :wink:
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Measure your length, ooer, and I’m compare with mine :smiley:
I’ve never seen wide track without longer arms because they are what control the roll center. Doing it with a wider hub is no different to spacers, but with VAG, who knows, anything is possible!
I believe the TTRS has a shorter steering rack and longer tie rods to compensate for the extra length, or maybe the other way round. Speak to Alex at AKS, he’s done it on his VRS I believe.
Tell me where you going to take the measurements from :happy2:
Cheers kev
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Hi guys, talked to someone about this yesterday and the TT setup gives you 25mm more track width and the Passat setup gives only 6mm width
I belive it's needed both wishbones and hubs to get the full width .. I've got both passat hubs and wishbones installed on my mk5, but really thinking about getting the TT setup instead
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I have the ttrs arms and standard gti hubs .... for reference I’d like to take some measurements for anyone else thinking of going this way .... just need to know where to take measurements from so we can compare :happy2:
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From the middle of the stub that goes into the console bush to the ball joint :happy2:
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50 cm diagonally from control push centre to ball joint centre .. my camber is maxed out on the adjuster ... so I think that gives me around 10mm longer .
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I have the ttrs arms and standard gti hubs .... for reference I’d like to take some measurements for anyone else thinking of going this way .... just need to know where to take measurements from so we can compare :happy2:
The TTRS has the same control arms as the TT.
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50 cm diagonally from control push centre to ball joint centre .. my camber is maxed out on the adjuster ... so I think that gives me around 10mm longer .
Sorry, I meant the front bush to the ball joint, so a straight axis to measure!
I did have a quick scout online and someone measured 14mm longer than a GTI arm. That would certainly give you a bit of extra camber!
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Ok I’ll take another measurement later ..... just can’t see how you could use the standard drive shafts if the arms 14mm longer!?
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That crossed my mind too. The CV joints must be very close to popping of the shaft on full lock with that much extra wishbone length.
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50 cm diagonally from control push centre to ball joint centre .. my camber is maxed out on the adjuster ... so I think that gives me around 10mm longer .
Sorry, I meant the front bush to the ball joint, so a straight axis to measure!
I did have a quick scout online and someone measured 14mm longer than a GTI arm. That would certainly give you a bit of extra camber!
40cm from centre to centre... as said that’s with my ttrs adjustable camber plates out fully , which is aprox 1cm
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Thanks mate. I will measure my Passat ones for comparison next time I'm under there. TT WBs push the camber out to -1.5 I've read, vs 0.5 or so for stock GTI.
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Great @Pudding (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) - Think you will have it done before I have the time to measure mine :drinking:
If I decide to swap out the Passat WB & hub setup to get the TT ones instead, would I need to swap out the steering rack also or is it's possible to fix this with some longer track rods or "hex" anything? :thinking:
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As you know I’m running the ttrs arms along with standard hub and as far as I know standard toe arms .... these were fitted by Jkm who don’t cut corners back in 2013 . I’m there next Friday , so I’ll quizz Jim about it :happy2:
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Yeah get some info! It seems like an easy way to add camber from the adjustable ball joints!
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Yes I’m on -3 at the moment .... :rolleye:
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-3 sounds a bit extreme for road use! Are you getting uneven tyre wear or tramlining?
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-3 sounds a bit extreme for road use! Are you getting uneven tyre wear or tramlining?
It is a bit much really ...... it’s very pointy ! Not getting much tramlining and only covered around 200 miles on that geometry .
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That is a lot of camber :grin:
Without getting too boring, there's a chunky amount of built-in dynamic camber in these cars because of the 7 degrees caster, or 8+ if you run the SuperPro consoles.
That is why the standard camber is so little as standard, compared to say a Corrado VR6 which had -1.2 camber, but only had 3 degrees of caster. So less wheel tip in the bends. -1.2 was a fair amount for standard in those days!
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I did some research before my last alignment and one of the leading GTi race teams recommended aiming for 2.25 deg front (@2 rear) with some toe out. In the end, we couldn’t reach that with the SP ball joints alone and settled on 1.5 deg with a less extreme toe out. This gives a decent amount of front end bite for road use without any bad habits. Looking at some more recent MQB examples, I see that the Leon Cupra R special runs 2 deg / the new 034 fixed camber mounts target 2.4 deg / Clubsport S runs about 1.5 deg.
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One of the reasons I wanted to run a lot of camber was I was getting arch contact and wanted to see if the negative camber would help . It didn’t to be honest . I think with that much camber on big compressions it toes out and is worse. I was running the vogtland pretty low but couldn’t understand why I was getting arch contact and others weren’t on the same coilovers and Wheels .... hence the thought of the ttrs giving more track and causing the issue . The real issue is me !....wanting it to handle and be low , who was I trying to kid ! I’ve messed around enough with suspension to know this is pretty much impossible for a road car . I’ll set the Öhlins to the recommended height , a good geo with around -2 camber and with the better damping and higher spring rate I’m sure all will be good :happy2:
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The only way to go low and handle is really hard springs, but that comes with obvious penalties!
Your TTRS arms just push the wheel out from the bottom, so the top clearance is still the same. To pull the top of the wheel in, camber adjustable top mounts would solve that for you :happy2:
-1.5 is a good amount of camber :smiley: Any more than 2 will definitely eat the tyres away if the majority of your journeys are straight roads.