MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => How to Guides / Troubleshooting => Topic started by: re2 on August 17, 2018, 04:28:23 pm
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I've had a look through several topics but I can't find a comprehensive How To guide. I've a full bush kit with WALK and I'll be buying the VWR spring and shock kit.
I've seen that the RS3 front top mount kit is the way forward. What about the rears?
Are there any stretch bolts that have to be replaced? Any bolts worth getting just in case as I've seen the eccentric bolts at the rear can cause problems?
Any tips or tricks? I hope to get this done at a garage in a day as I'm self employed
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Whilst you have it apart, it would be worthwhile doing as much as you can to avoid extra alignment sessions. i would recommend fitting alloy Passat B6 hubs & control arms to save @3.5kg per side plus also polybush front bushing. Since you are lowering the suspension, new ball joints would be helpful to correct the roll centres - either Passat or Superpro.
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All of the chassis components and subframes use stretch bolts, apart from the brake caliper carrier bolts.
If the rear tyre wear is even and the car tracks straight, there is no need to touch the rear camber bolts. Save that for when the rear end actually needs a rebush. The bushes back there can appear to look tired on visual inspection, but in many cases they are still fine.
Yep, go with MK2 TT/8P S3/RS3 front top mounts, they're all the same. The bearing is the same as the Golf's/Polo's, but the rubber mounting is a stiffer compound, which you will need with uprated dampers. There is no uprated top mount option for the rear. The rear mounts are more metal than rubber and never wear out.
I strongly recommend the TyrolSport deadset kit to lock the front subframe firmly in place. I would also go with SuperPro ball joints as suggested above to run a bit more negative camber, which these cars respond well to.
Other than that, just check everything over, CV boots mainly as they are fond of splitting, and general wear items. No point lobbing money at stuff that is still sound.
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Thank you
The VWR kit only lowers the GTI by 15mm anyway so do I need adjustable ball joints?
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More like 25mm at front. We measured mine in this earlier thread
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,116982.msg1109342.html#msg1109342
I have the SP balljoints (plus H&R small arbs) and the extra camber does improve front end bite.
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SP ball joints?
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I'm open to suspension suggestions too. Not after Lows, but daily fun and commuting
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The VWR kit is unbeatable for that requirement at the price point. I had to spend £2.2K to significantly better it.
My only criticisms are; it sits lower than advertised as already mentioned, and there is not enough spring rate when pushing on, so front arch fouling is a likely possibility on mid corner compressions. I'm not even talking driving it like you stole it, merely 7/10ths on some local corners that OEM and coilovers never kiss the arch on.
As ever, products that tick all of the boxes cost considerably more than those that only tick 70% of them.
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@re2 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=26170) have a look at my thread here it may give you some pointers mate.
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,113824.0.html (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,113824.0.html)
Molesy :happy2:
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Thank you
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@pudding I have been reading your great view on the VWR kit as I was tempted for my Pirelli. Like you I'm not a big fan of super low (getting old!) and what to asks your views on other kits.
Id like improvements over standard, maybe with a slight drop but nothing that will interfere with xenon levelling and wing fouling when giving it the beans!
Was tempted with an Ohlins kit (2nd hand kit on ebay) but still very good money for something that gets used for 2k a year.
all view welcome :smiley:
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@gixerben (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=9443) - you might want to speak with @Bodyboarder81 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=21888) about the Ohlins on ebay as they were his sales return and have a history. I have the racingline kit also (plus HR arbs / superpro control arms) and find them to be very good overall. The issue with front softness / arch rubbing happens occasionally at low speeds with weight being thrown forward rather than during spirited driving. The overall drop is manageable at under 25mm.
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cheers @colesey (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1819) when you say "a history* whats do you mean?
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He returned them for a refund as they were felt to be defective. I was looking at the ebay listing also and put two and two together that they might have belonged to Josh. We had a chat and he told me that there was a knocking noise from one rear unit which followed to the other side of the car when swapped over by his garage. Josh spent a lot of time and money trying to get to the bottom of the issue but to no avail; it came with these Ohlins and left when they were taken out.
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good to know mate, thanks. It's a lot of money and when I asked some questions got one word answers...
Not what I wanted for the money.
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Yeah, sounds like you have been dealing with the same sales guy 😂 He got pissy with me that I took Josh’s word over his. Go figure.
Another option to consider is the Relentless coilovers, they seem well liked though I am happy with the Racingline.
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yeah, may go VWR, they do come in at great price.. Cant be dealing with sh*tty attitude when spending good money on a suspension kit.
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Any views on the V1 KW coilover set-up?
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Had kw v1 coilovers on my mk2 and I loved them, sporty firm but still comfy on rough roads.
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Pretty much been said by others ....
Although I did get a full refund and they even agreed to buy me a single damper unit , which was good of them , I’d never ever deal with the salesman again ... I was sworn at , hung up on and his telephone manner in general was disgusting . The actual boss was very helpful on the other hand .
I spent an absolute fortune trying to diagnose the problem and this was one of the reasons I fell out of love with the golf , which was unfortunate, as it was a great car !
My advice .... get the b12 kit with eibach arbs . For the money it was a very very good road set up !
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thanks Josh for the feedback, will take your opinion into consideration :happy2:
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I’ve managed to get over selling the golf though :driver:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FS2V8NIt.jpg&hash=56c8efdafbc6fda6834d24e105273bd6ec8be78b)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqFLNtPH.jpg&hash=5ab248f0a59659baae4dafe010886846aae7c0f6)
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@pudding I have been reading your great view on the VWR kit as I was tempted for my Pirelli. Like you I'm not a big fan of super low (getting old!) and what to asks your views on other kits.
Id like improvements over standard, maybe with a slight drop but nothing that will interfere with xenon levelling and wing fouling when giving it the beans!
Was tempted with an Ohlins kit (2nd hand kit on ebay) but still very good money for something that gets used for 2k a year.
all view welcome :smiley:
Glad you found it useful :happy2:
From one oldie to another, I can tell you the VWR kit has quite a plush ride on general day to day to duties. Where it fell short for me may not affect other people, but for me it was the unpredictable transition from supple to firm, particularly through bumpy corners. This can often be attributed to progressive rate springs but it also felt like the dampers weren't tuned properly for the stiffer of the two rates. The overall rates were too soft for my style of driving anyway, so I needed to upgrade.
My style of driving is basically to not slow down at all when approaching a corner. I'm a fast in, fast out kind of driver :grin:
It's no secret VWR rebrand existing components and slap on a hefty profit margin. I noticed orange paint under their quick blow over of black, so god knows what dampers they are, or how long they will last. I prefer to buy a known entity.
It's a good kit for the money, but it's lack of travel and soft spring rates may catch you out, depending on your roads.
It's a shame Josh had a bad experience with the Ohlins, not helped by the utter throbber on ebay. I bought mine through an authorised dealer and have had nothing but great times with the kit on the roads :happy2: It is a very noticeable step up from the VWR kit, but then so it should be for 4x the price :surprised: Their approach is very different to the norm. 90% of suspension makers simply copy the OEM damper dimensions and dial in damper and spring rates based on maths. Ohlins dial the dampers in after a minimum of 6 months testing on the road, based on feel, not computers. It's why they only have a handful of kits in their catalogue :happy2:
Anyway, suspension is highly subjective and it's difficult to know what to recommend without seeing your roads and driving style. Maybe Josh's recommendation of the B12 kit is a good starting point. I personally feel the VWR kit is too soft :smiley:
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Thanks Pudding, I thought that the kit would be a generic shock for the money, orange paint you say probably a Koni item!!??
I had a H&R cup kit on a MK4 golf running 18" and the ride was as hard as a whores heart!
While its not my daily I would like to retain some comfort, as stated before arch contact and xenons hunting for level is a no-no.
I just want to dial out some of the drive on the brakes and to improve high speed stability. Coming from Sports bikes I tend to drive a bit like a bike slower in fast out, corner dependant of course..
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Don’t get me wrong the ohlins are sensational..... I’ve had my set of the S2k for a couple of years now and love them ! That’s why I bought another set for the golf but just didn’t work out . I’ve since been told by a number and of people that ohlins are very difficult to deal with when it comes to issues ect . When you are spending big money it’s not what you want in the back of your mind if things don’t go to plan . I also think that although they are very good they don’t offer 4x the gains of said other kits available that do a very good job .
I’m also in the market for suspension for my z4m coupe at the moment and looking at the kw v3’s
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Thanks Pudding, I thought that the kit would be a generic shock for the money, orange paint you say probably a Koni item!!??
I had a H&R cup kit on a MK4 golf running 18" and the ride was as hard as a whores heart!
While its not my daily I would like to retain some comfort, as stated before arch contact and xenons hunting for level is a no-no.
I just want to dial out some of the drive on the brakes and to improve high speed stability. Coming from Sports bikes I tend to drive a bit like a bike slower in fast out, corner dependant of course..
Yeah I did think that. Koni's budget dampers just happen to be orange :grin: The OEM dampers are SACHs and last a long time. I can't see the VWR kit putting in the miles to be honest. I had Koni Yellows back in the day and they were awful for lifespan.
The MK5 platform is VEEEERRRY different to the MK4. You can run surprisingly stiff setups without them rattling your teeth out, primarily because the body shell is so much more rigid, and good suspension needs a solid foundation to work properly.
Where are you based? If you're local to me (East Anglia) you are welcome to have a drive of mine. Your wallet will take a bashing afterwards though :grin:
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Don’t get me wrong the ohlins are sensational..... I’ve had my set of the S2k for a couple of years now and love them ! That’s why I bought another set for the golf but just didn’t work out . I’ve since been told by a number and of people that ohlins are very difficult to deal with when it comes to issues ect . When you are spending big money it’s not what you want in the back of your mind if things don’t go to plan . I also think that although they are very good they don’t offer 4x the gains of said other kits available that do a very good job .
I’m also in the market for suspension for my z4m coupe at the moment and looking at the kw v3’s
Thankfully I've not had any issues with mine over several thousand miles, but when the time comes, I will be dealing with a UK suspension specialist, not Ohlins!
As for the VFM of the kit, I guess it depends what your priorities are. If you want a decent ride with good handling, it's definitely at the more forgiving end of the spectrum compared to similarly priced kits from Bilstein, AST, H&R et al. Ohlins are pretty much the market leader in the bike world. I wish they would branch out into mountain bike forks and shocks like Fox Racing have done. Fox are another epic brand of damper, really really good. No road car kits though.
How are you finding the Z4M? Great car! Often overlooked. I had a soft spot for the Z3M coupe back in the day, but the 5 speed box and the super twitchy E30 rear end put me off. I had KW V3s on my Corrado and they weren't all that, imo. Rubbish damper tuning and pretty unsophisticated ride. Very robust and long lasting though. Things may be different on the Z4 platform though.
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Agreed, Ohlins is top draw kit, I purchased a rear shock for my gsxr1000 and it transformed the back end, better feel and less tearing of the tyre on the track. Would love it on the Pirelli
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A few of my bike mates really rate them as well. After ending up in a ditch during my CBT test way back in 1999, and failing on the U turn, that pretty much put the decider on my bike career :grin: Shame really as I love bikes, but they just don't seem to agree with me.
As for the Golf, the Ohlins setup makes very rapid A-B progress ridiculously effortless. It's like Koni FSD, but a lot better. Some of the smaller lumps and bumps that troubled the OEM and VWR suspension, you don't even feel with the Ohlins.
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Öhlins are the business, I passed my direct access and went out and bought a fireblade..
6 months later moved onto GSXR 1000’s with Öhlins and power commanders, track days and a few GSXR 600 club races before having kids and hanging up the leathers!
Miss the bikes madly and hanker after a BMW S1000RR.. all those rider aids, I’d give Rossi a run for this money after my antics on the Gixer 😁
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Don’t get me wrong the ohlins are sensational..... I’ve had my set of the S2k for a couple of years now and love them ! That’s why I bought another set for the golf but just didn’t work out . I’ve since been told by a number and of people that ohlins are very difficult to deal with when it comes to issues ect . When you are spending big money it’s not what you want in the back of your mind if things don’t go to plan . I also think that although they are very good they don’t offer 4x the gains of said other kits available that do a very good job .
I’m also in the market for suspension for my z4m coupe at the moment and looking at the kw v3’s
How are you finding the Z4M? Great car! Often overlooked. I had a soft spot for the Z3M coupe back in the day, but the 5 speed box and the super twitchy E30 rear end put me off. I had KW V3s on my Corrado and they weren't all that, imo. Rubbish damper tuning and pretty unsophisticated ride. Very robust and long lasting though. Things may be different on the Z4 platform though.
Didn’t like the z4m coupe to begin with if I’m honest ! Engine note to my ears sounds very agricultural , gear shifts not great , handling a bit vague..... but it does have a old school charm and is full of character. It’s what I wanted , something that is a occasion every trip . I have made a few mods already to address the above issues ( clutch delay valve delete , zhp gear stick/ boot , gruppe m ind kit , eibach springs that came in the car , the rear bush’s with a limiter kit , also have on order a brembo BBK for the front and looking into further suspension options )
With the few mods I’ve made already, it’s just brilliant fun . The Pirelli I had would more than likely beat it down a B road but the M is just bursting with n/a character and drama , which the golf could never match in my opinion
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Any of you guys had dealings or know about the relentless coilover kits?
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They are rebranded BC Racing I believe.
A bit of BC Racing info for you - https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiKzMbCsszdAhUPW8AKHWENBM8QwqsBMAV6BAgAEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DD96cTipz0NQ&usg=AOvVaw1p7MfAI-q0uOdAyH7sIb1F
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cheers pudding, but i'm still drawn towards the Ohlins!! :laugh:
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I've BCs in my E46 M3 and a friend thought it still had standard suspension in it the ride quality was so good when he got a spin and was saying I'd ruin it with coilovers. He was shocked when pointed out it already had them lol.
I'd love to upgrade to something else as more track focused now but for any decent improvement, it would be the price of what I paid for the GTI :grin:
Going with B12s and H&R arbs on the GTI soon as its more or a daily with it being for my other half and just a toy for me at the weekends and occasional trackday
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Yeah same experience with the Ohlins. Suspension doesn't need to be rock hard to make a car handle well. Don't get me wrong, if I wind the damping up to near maximum, it's ridiculous around corners, but equally ridiculous over bumps :grin:
Every time I see a Focus RS on the move, I see the driver's head bobbing up and down like an old BL Mini. SavageGeese's review says it all really :grin: There's just no need for that. It's borderline unusable on most of Britain's B roads.
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has the Ohlins improved overall grip would you say? reduction in body weight transfer front to back?
My Pirelli has a stage 1 R-tech map pushing out 300bhp and 340 lbs ft torque and to say it showing up the handling is an understatement.
It has newish Pirelli P-zero's all round and whilst there are better tyres available I felt the need to stick with the Pirelli theme.
It does launch like a speed boat and the usual wheel hop, so have also been reading your posts on the vibratech engine mounts and WALK kit.
so really looking for the best set up for fast road use without too much effect over ride quality, a big ask I know!
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Suspension alone won't fix wheel hop/traction issues, although decent damping does go some way to improving it. It's the sum of a few upgrades which solves that, namely - ALK, stiffer mounts, damping and tyres. There isn't a lot you can do about rearward weight transfer in a FWD car, other than making the rear suspension stiffer to compensate, but that would come with ride quality and grip penalties.
In terms of cornering grip, ultimately you're always going to be limited by tyre width but quality suspension + ARBs gets you closer to the limits without excessive body roll and tyre screeching :smiley: Flat cornering reduces TC intervention as well :happy2:
I can fully endorse the Ohlins kit + Eibach 26/23mm ARBs, but that is nearly 3 grand's worth of suspension on a 10+ year old car. Very hard to justify for a lot of people, which I totally get. If budget isn't an issue, then I can't think of a reason not to go for that setup, other than the recommended 30,000KM damper rebuild interval. I am well past that mileage on mine though, and the damping is still just as tight now as it was when new :smiley: