MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Janner_Sy on February 16, 2010, 06:40:46 pm
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pretty excited to see this. hybrid turbos were a big thing on the 1.8T with big gains had.
it seems that owens development have developed a new hybrid k03 as a direct replacment for the std K03s TFSI.
http://www.owendevelopments.co.uk/news/story.asp?newsId=95
able to hold boost continuoulsly at 20PSi with an overboost ability of 23psi, in comparison the standard k03s manages 11psi continuous.
npow if that isnt a recipe for good power then what is.
the question is would new injectors be required still. im presuming the DV is still located on the turbo which would negate the need for a new TB/IC pipe and DV relocation kit so there is a saving there
but it would require custom mapping
Thoughts everyone?????
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Tasty. K04 power with K03 spool??
I'd be interested in seeing the development stuff for that and what it's produced with a list of required hardware.
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Tasty. K04 power with K03 spool??
I'd be interested in seeing the development stuff for that and what it's produced with a list of required hardware.
ive just emailed them to see if it would literaly be a bolt on mod for a stage 2+ k03 car with the only extra thing required being a custom map,
i asked reference the DV and also if injectors would likely be required. im presumin they still would be??
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£1800 is a lot for that turbo.
For £2400 i can have GT28RS turbo and get about 350bhp so i would that turbo get that at least to make it worthwhile.
Carl :happy2:
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But then there's the whole "buy a K04 and get 350BHP instead" argument for GT28 money.
If it's a simple bolt on and map it mod, I think it'll appeal.
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£1800 is a lot for that turbo.
For £2400 i can have GT28RS turbo and get about 350bhp so i would that turbo get that at least to make it worthwhile.
Carl :happy2:
x2
i saw a ko4 brand new go on ebay for £250
but be interesting to see what is involved with mapping and other mods and if they plan a KO4 Hybrid :party:
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If you took the K03 to a turbo refurbisher I'm sure they would be able to do all that for under £350 and the Forge actuator is now generally available for under £130. So a DIY would be under £500!!!!
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but the GT28 is very laggy. you only need to look at hurdys overlays with DANGBs. hurdy was making about 100hp more at the lower RPM points
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2FHurdyDanGB.jpg&hash=f0513fb533178ff54ffa039b088eaefb5fbbcf31)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2FHurdyDanGB2.jpg&hash=a255056542807e244b24e7b44dff8c4d651cad65)
so real life i think it would be better, and more accessable
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If you took the K03 to a turbo refurbisher I'm sure they would be able to do all that for under £350 and the Forge actuator is now generally available for under £130. So a DIY would be under £500!!!!
thats what i would do :smiley:
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Turbo refresher i wouldnt even now where to look? any hints or links as to people who can do things like this
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Damn beaten to it.
Was just going to post that you could get a K04 done for a grand if your lucky to get a turbo
Carl :happy2:
@tony - Thats my point (just you made it better :happy2:) i think it's a bit steep at £1800 (£2200 with injectors) the ONLY benefit would be faster spool.
I would still want to see some logs aswell to make sure that tuners (REVO/APR etc) have got a decent map for it.
Carl :happy2:
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http://www.turbocentreuk.co.uk/
known these guys for years they know there stuff big time :notworthy:
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owendevelopments is where jonnyc sent his big turbo to be polished etc but doubt they would let you with the ko3, now they are selling it... in fact it says only available new on their website
might enquire about ko4 though :innocent:
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i think it's a bit steep at £1800 (£2200 with injectors) the ONLY benefit would be faster spool.
how do you work that out carl. if the turbo has better flow dynamics and the ability to hold 9Psi (700mbar) more boost consistantly along the entire rev range you will make a more power FACT and poably a good slab of it as well.
I wouldnt go REVO or APR for that. i would go for a purely custom map TBH.
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£1800 is a lot for that turbo.
For £2400 i can have GT28RS turbo and get about 350bhp so i would that turbo get that at least to make it worthwhile.
Carl :happy2:
x2
i saw a ko4 brand new go on ebay for £250
but be interesting to see what is involved with mapping and other mods and if they plan a KO4 Hybrid :party:
Us SEAT lads looked into getting the k04 hybridized a long time ago and apparently the k04 is pretty solid as it if with not much more to give, the company reckoned about 380bhp tops but email owens etc anyway and see what their opinion is.
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When i was referring to the only benefit Sy i meant in terms of against a K04 conversion.
If i were to pay say £500 max for a K04 then £400 for some new injectors. Say around £650 for install and K04 software. I would then have around the same power.
So the ONLY benefit then would be a faster spool and i would save around £500-700.
Im not denying the fact the turbo would make more power. It's just wether its worth the outlay when it could be achieved cheaper.
Carl :happy2:
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When i was referring to the only benefit Sy i meant in terms of against a K04 conversion.
If i were to pay say £500 max for a K04 then £400 for some new injectors. Say around £650 for install and K04 software. I would then have around the same power.So the ONLY benefit then would be a faster spool and i would save around £500-700.
Im not denying the fact the turbo would make more power. It's just wether its worth the outlay when it could be achieved cheaper.Carl :happy2:
put that way i see your point. and it is a bit steeply priced. i have fired an email off to people to see what they can do to the std k03 turbo with internal upgrades. if as hurdy says they can be done for £500 i would definately be interested then.
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Owens will do a top job, there the best and the only people that I would trust to be honest..
i think it's a bit steep at £1800 (£2200 with injectors) the ONLY benefit would be faster spool.
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As vRSy said.. More boost at high revs = more power..
For example, a GT3076R at 15PSI @ 7000rpm will make (give or take a few hp) the same numbers as a K04 at 15psi @ 7000rpm.. The difference is, K04 is about at its limit of boost at that rpm, yet a 3076 will make over 40psi. Hence more power is possible..
Us SEAT lads looked into getting the k04 hybridized a long time ago and apparently the k04 is pretty solid as it if with not much more to give, the company reckoned about 380bhp tops but email owens etc anyway and see what their opinion is.
I spoke to Brian about this a couple of years ago and he said the same, there is nothing to give from the stock 2.0T FSI K04 turbo..
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but the GT28 is very laggy. you only need to look at hurdys overlays with DANGBs. hurdy was making about 100hp more at the lower RPM points
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2FHurdyDanGB.jpg&hash=f0513fb533178ff54ffa039b088eaefb5fbbcf31)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2FHurdyDanGB2.jpg&hash=a255056542807e244b24e7b44dff8c4d651cad65)
so real life i think it would be better, and more accessable
Having driven dans car there is alot more lag compared to the k04 but that does come with benefits. He gets much much much better mpg than me without even having to try, and when in full attack mode the turbo will always be up and running also so in some terms its win win imo.
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Owens will do a top job, there the best and the only people that I would trust to be honest..
i think it's a bit steep at £1800 (£2200 with injectors) the ONLY benefit would be faster spool.
As vRSy said.. More boost at high revs = more power..
For example, a GT3076R at 15PSI @ 7000rpm will make (give or take a few hp) the same numbers as a K04 at 15psi @ 7000rpm.. The difference is, K04 is about at its limit of boost at that rpm, yet a 3076 will make over 40psi. Hence more power is possible..
Us SEAT lads looked into getting the k04 hybridized a long time ago and apparently the k04 is pretty solid as it if with not much more to give, the company reckoned about 380bhp tops but email owens etc anyway and see what their opinion is.
I spoke to Brian about this a couple of years ago and he said the same, there is nothing to give from the stock 2.0T FSI K04 turbo..
[/quote]
jonny what would you reccommend me asking them about changing on the k03 to essentially make it a hybrid, ie cut turbines AF housings, bearings etc
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IMO i would just get a good used KO4. If i was doing it again i still would. It will work out cheaper. About the spool i can say i hardly noticed the difference between the Ko4 and Ko3. Isn't the Ko3 housing the same size as the ko4 but just with larger compressor and turbines?
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jonny what would you reccommend me asking them about changing on the k03 to essentially make it a hybrid, ie cut turbines AF housings, bearings etc
I would say that you will end up with a turbo that is potentially capable of out performing the K04 (I need to speak to Brian later anyways so ill ask) but the added benefit will be that the spec of the bearings etc will far surpass that of the OEM K04 turbo, so it should also be more durable.. That would be a win win..
IMO i would just get a good used KO4. If i was doing it again i still would. It will work out cheaper. About the spool i can say i hardly noticed the difference between the Ko4 and Ko3. Isn't the Ko3 housing the same size as the ko4 but just with larger compressor and turbines?
For sure the compressor side is larger and wheel too.. As far as I know the exhaust housing on the K03 / K04 is the same yeah, although the exhaust wheel is larger.. Again I don't know this for sure..
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I can't see they'd have built something a K04 can already do and does so well, knowing that conversion already exists on such a relatively easy and cheap basis.
I'm expecting this hybrid to be something a bit niche, dare I say even special? There's got to be a USP somewhere.
Jonny, get them to send me one and I'll bench it for them :wink:
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Spoken to Lee and it all sounds very good indeed..
The spec is basically going to end up K04 +
They now have ways of improving over the stock K04 fitted to the 2.0T FSI, actuators, bearings, cut back exhaust blades, ported manifold, billet wheels etc etc.. And well, for anyone with a K03 this is going to be a BIG hike in performance.. Even for those with a K04 expect good gains in torque and top end too.. With massive increases in reliability due to race spec thrust bearings etc etc..
Well worth it in my opinion!!
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i'm in te deep water here,but say tou upgrade a K04 with the parts jonny mentions, custom code is then needed right??
More power requires more fuel, is s3 injectors up to the job?
How about standard rods/pistons?? strong enough?? :confused:
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i'm in te deep water here,but say tou upgrade a K04 with the parts jonny mentions, custom code is then needed right??
Bearing in mind recent 'debates' your choice of words is very amusing. :laugh:
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i'm in te deep water here,but say tou upgrade a K04 with the parts jonny mentions, custom code is then needed right??
Bearing in mind recent 'debates' your choice of words is very amusing. :laugh:
to take advantage of the new internals code other than for instance Revo, bluefin or apr is needed right?
I know you need to be diplomatic inhere, or one might be banned :laugh: :P
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i'm in te deep water here,but say tou upgrade a K04 with the parts jonny mentions, custom code is then needed right??
More power requires more fuel, is s3 injectors up to the job?
How about standard rods/pistons?? strong enough?? :confused:
In terms of upgrades to a K04 turbo.. Hurdy installed a forge actuator and had to play around with his Revo settings to suit, once he had done that then it was all ok.. I think so long as you have Revo you should be fine to be honest..
Im running standard internals with my turbo kit on the Golf so I see absolutely no reason why not so long as the tune is good and safe..
Going from K03 to Owens spec turbo will require a different map, injectors etc..
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Wonder what they charge to hand your own ko3 in the get done?
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i'm in te deep water here,but say tou upgrade a K04 with the parts jonny mentions, custom code is then needed right??
More power requires more fuel, is s3 injectors up to the job?
How about standard rods/pistons?? strong enough?? :confused:
In terms of upgrades to a K04 turbo.. Hurdy installed a forge actuator and had to play around with his Revo settings to suit, once he had done that then it was all ok.. I think so long as you have Revo you should be fine to be honest..
Im running standard internals with my turbo kit on the Golf so I see absolutely no reason why not so long as the tune is good and safe..
Going from K03 to Owens spec turbo will require a different map, injectors etc..
you have ED30 internals , i have standard 200bhp GTI internals :sad1: then a new map and fuelling, getting expensive fast :sad1:
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Even though the ED30 engine is stronger it's not THAT much stronger so even KO4 engines going higher than a KO4 turbo run the risk of blowing up too. Revo stage 3 on the ko3 engines is based on Revo stage 2+ on the ED30 and it can handle it just fine.
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All sounds very interesting. Be nice to get the whole lot including injectors for £1800 as they should sell like hotcakes!
Mapping will be crucial...would be nice to see a company spend some time on this as a project.
I know that APR don't offer custom maps not even to Jim!! Interesting times ahead with this!!
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Initially i seriously was considering, but im going to change car instead of changing turbo. I think it will work out cheaper especially in the long run. I will have 350Hp
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Initially i seriously was considering, but im going to change car instead of changing turbo. I think it will work out cheaper especially in the long run. I will have 350Hp
what you got in mind?
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impreza, evo, S3 not really thought about it. was just thinking anbout spending out on more upgrades today and thought F*ck it. il sell it and go for something else that can do it all already.
i could throw another 4k at the car and it will still get spanked by a half decent evo
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impreza, evo, S3 not really thought about it. was just thinking anbout spending out on more upgrades today and thought F*ck it. il sell it and go for something else that can do it all already.
i could throw another 4k at the car and it will still get spanked by a half decent evo
Very true mate, I think a evo beckons :signLOL:
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always been more of an impreza fan. always had that itch? lookin at about 6-7k for the car and 3-4 k on mods
which models remap close to 300hp with no additional mods. Id be happy with 360Hp maybe a tad more as an end result but i dont want to go the route of turbo conversions as that is the reason im selling the vRS.
not to offay with offerings and models/engine specs of evos/imprezas. any good sites you know of
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always been more of an impreza fan. always had that itch? lookin at about 6-7k for the car and 3-4 k on mods
which models remap close to 300hp with no additional mods. Id be happy with 360Hp maybe a tad more as an end result but i dont want to go the route of turbo conversions as that is the reason im selling the vRS.
not to offay with offerings and models/engine specs of evos/imprezas. any good sites you know of
This is the model I was nearly tempted by. Only made 500.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201004351233091/sort/priceasc/usedcars/model/impreza/make/subaru/page/1/keywords/wr1/postcode/s102pd/radius/1501?previous=%2Fsearch%2Fused%2Fcars%2Fsubaru%2Fimpreza%2Fpostcode%2Fs102pd%2Fradius%2F1501%2Fkeywords%2Fwr1%2Fpage%2F1%2Fsort%2Fpriceasc&logcode=p
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Stunning cars, but don't push it too far - they get unreliable as hell. I think cos they're so easy to mod everyone goes for the maximum they can get out of them. My mate's been through a few engines now in his Scoob.
I guarantee either an Evo or a Scooby will blow up each trackday, has happened on every one so far.
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@hurdy, that is the exact car that has got me inot wanting an impreza. a good friend of mine at my last unit had one and it was an absolute monster. Wr1s arnt cheap though. I was thinking STI spec
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Nahh
P1 Last of the classic 3drs, last of the prodrive built cars actually on the M40 from shells. Every single one handbuilt in the UK.
Stiffened chassis. They will stage 1 to 350BHP and drive around the outside of nearly everything else.
Every single BHP over 350 will cost you very dearly though
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/200934340128131/sort/priceasc/usedcars/model/impreza/make/subaru/keywords/p1/postcode/pr23nt/radius/1500/page/2?previous=%2Fsearch%2Fused%2Fcars%2Fsubaru%2Fimpreza%2Fpostcode%2Fpr23nt%2Fradius%2F1500%2Fkeywords%2Fp1%2Fsort%2Fpriceasc%2Fpage%2F2&logcode=p (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/200934340128131/sort/priceasc/usedcars/model/impreza/make/subaru/keywords/p1/postcode/pr23nt/radius/1500/page/2?previous=%2Fsearch%2Fused%2Fcars%2Fsubaru%2Fimpreza%2Fpostcode%2Fpr23nt%2Fradius%2F1500%2Fkeywords%2Fp1%2Fsort%2Fpriceasc%2Fpage%2F2&logcode=p)
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Bugeye / Blobeye STI's will remap to around 340bhp via Ecutek. I'll give you names of some good remappers if you're seriously interested!
Hawkeye STI with 2.5 lump (EJ25) has more torque but is known to not be as good in modded form (weaker) compared to older 2.0 block (EJ20). Can still do 340bhp on remap I think.
Alternatively you can try and find a JDM Spec C jobbie...now they're really good! Or a Litchfield T20/T25 if you can find one and you have the budger.
If going Evo...I'd plomp for a E9 260 version. detuned FQ300 really, cheaper, and can still be remapped to 350+bhp.
BUT....be aware that they're like tin cars, and luxury is not in its sales brochure.
Oh and you'll be visiting your local Shell garage WAY MORE OFTEN! :signLOL:
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Did I miss the name of the company somewhere in this thread that is making these claims about these turbos? I have a K04 sitting idle, and made enquiries a long time ago about modifying it but the answer at the time was no, there is not much that can be done.
I would be interested in hearing details from the horses mouth so to speak.
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always been more of an impreza fan. always had that itch? lookin at about 6-7k for the car and 3-4 k on mods
which models remap close to 300hp with no additional mods. Id be happy with 360Hp maybe a tad more as an end result but i dont want to go the route of turbo conversions as that is the reason im selling the vRS.
not to offay with offerings and models/engine specs of evos/imprezas. any good sites you know of
300hp in a scooby would be about as quick as your vrs I reckon. 360hp plus is what I think your after. Got a mate with a evo 8 at 400hp and that is quick, apparently evos do 400hp on the std turbo.
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Did I miss the name of the company somewhere in this thread that is making these claims about these turbos? I have a K04 sitting idle, and made enquiries a long time ago about modifying it but the answer at the time was no, there is not much that can be done.
I would be interested in hearing details from the horses mouth so to speak.
Its Owens the outfit that Jonny uses. :smiley:
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@hurdy, that is the exact car that has got me inot wanting an impreza. a good friend of mine at my last unit had one and it was an absolute monster. Wr1s arnt cheap though. I was thinking STI spec
A stock WR1 would be a better long term bet than an STI. Spend the extra on the WR1 and you already have 320neddies without doing any mods. The alloys on the WR1 are lovely too. :smiley:
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Did I miss the name of the company somewhere in this thread that is making these claims about these turbos? I have a K04 sitting idle, and made enquiries a long time ago about modifying it but the answer at the time was no, there is not much that can be done.
I would be interested in hearing details from the horses mouth so to speak.
Its Owens the outfit that Jonny uses. :smiley:
Cool. Anyone got contact info?
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^^^
Try the link in the first post.