MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: jon-tfsi on February 22, 2010, 04:03:51 pm
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Does anyone know if the lightweight aluminium alloy Audi S3 hubs will fit a Mk5?
Im sure I have read somewhere that they will but I would like to be sure.
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I think they do as I was reading a post the other day and jonnyc pointed these out, I have been trying to get the part numbers so i can get prices for them.
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Im interested to see how much they are too
The part numbers on the castings are 3CO 407 257 G and 3CO 407 258 G
Just rang audi but they are not the actual part numbers :sad1:
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Im interested to see how much they are too
The part numbers are 3CO 407 257 G and 3CO 407 258 G
Yup, straight swap..
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Nice one :happy2: Thanks
I might be able to get Andy to fix my car now your not keeping him so busy :smiley:
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Nice one :happy2: Thanks
I might be able to get Andy to fix my car now your not keeping him so busy :smiley:
I just got a new car so not long lol..
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Just to get all the info in the same tread, do the Cupra have these alloy hubs front??
if so do they also have alloy hubs in the rear?? :popcornsoda:
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Did you get a price on them? Might be worth doing when my TT wishbones go on - as they'll be off anyways.
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My Cupra has the alloy front hubs and Alloy Wishbones with the S3 bushes as standard, not sure on the rears, I will check tonight
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Those numbers above are 3C which is Passat chassis. Doesn't mean they won't be the ones but more likely if they are specific to the S3 they'll be 8Px xxx xxxx or if they are common to the A5 chassis group they may be 1Kx xxx xxxx
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Hmm - might have a nosey at Gaz's R36 as that has R32 stoppers but may have been upgraded to the wishbones and hubs a-la Cupras/S3.
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Are the alloy hubs as strong as the steel ones? My guess would be not and it is one area I'd like to keep as strong as possible due to tracking the car.
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The material may not be as strong, it could be stronger!! , who knows?
They are MUCH chunkier than the cast steel/iron ones.
There was a failure of a steel/iron hub. It was a guy on here, resulting in the car being written off. Failure of a hub is deffinately something to be avoided
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R&L alloy hubs are about 450£ inc VAT.
I wonder if S3 and TT hubs are the same or not. Does any body know?
I'm going to give my car to VWR care, and they are going to fit TT lowers alloy arms and TT or S3 alloy hubs.
But we still don't know if they are the same.
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I'm fairly sure it'll be machined alloy, rather than cast - so I can't see any strength issues. Certainly better than cast pig iron we have.
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Are the R&L aftermarket ones?
The reason I started the thread is I have a set of S3 hubs and am considering fitting them with the tt bottom arms.
I have heard the TT hubs widen the Track even further???
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I'm fairly sure it'll be machined alloy, rather than cast - so I can't see any strength issues. Certainly better than cast pig iron we have.
They are cast alloy but much chunkier than the iron items.
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The hub carriers are double chunky, its been causing me problems as the lugs that the brakes attach to are probably twice as thick as the standard ones. So depending on the application some of the bigger caliper upgrades bolt on from the other direction and therfore need a different offset.
Thanks to Stokey for the loan of one
TBH talk of these things failing is unfounded its a substantial casting which is obviously reinforced in certain areas with the actual bearing carrier being iron, theres a small gasket to prevent dissimilar metal corrosion but the whole thing just looks right and weighs substantially less than the GTi ones
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Are the R&L aftermarket ones?
The reason I started the thread is I have a set of S3 hubs and am considering fitting them with the tt bottom arms.
I have heard the TT hubs widen the Track even further???
Sorry, R&L means Right&Left!!!
I also heard that TT arms one's widen the track, but I'm not sure about it.
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I can't imagine either if these castings failing either !!
A guy on here (VenetianS3) has stated that a hub failure ended the life of his ED30. Maybe he meant the bearing failed ??
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anyone know the weight difference?
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Should be about half the weight give or take.. I would expect about 5 - 7kg for the pair..
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The hub carriers are double chunky, its been causing me problems as the lugs that the brakes attach to are probably twice as thick as the standard ones. So depending on the application some of the bigger caliper upgrades bolt on from the other direction and therfore need a different offset.
Thanks to Stokey for the loan of one
TBH talk of these things failing is unfounded its a substantial casting which is obviously reinforced in certain areas with the actual bearing carrier being iron, theres a small gasket to prevent dissimilar metal corrosion but the whole thing just looks right and weighs substantially less than the GTi ones
:innocent:
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S3 hubs are enormous :jumping:
ETKA:
S3 parts number : 3C0 407 253 F
3C0 407 254 F
TT parts number : 8J0 407 253 D
8J0 407 254 D
Does commun numbers (407 253/254) means that parts are the same?
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whats the prices for the hubs?
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about 450£
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Any influence on the roll center as compared to the GTI ones ?
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S3 ??
No.
They're the same as Passat, Superb, Sharan 2011.
So not for true sports applications only.
The TT hubs do rise the center of roll.
BTW,
the aluminium arms are all forged for the highest strengh,
the aluminum hubs are made in special combined cast/forge
procedure called ''Cobapress'':
http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCsQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.st-ji.com%2Fen%2Fprocess%2Fcobapress-english.html&ei=EnGbTZ6TEcbCtAbDxoDABg&usg=AFQjCNFhL6v24BV_F4ClOx-wNwiPXdDG8g
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Yeah but the TT hubs don't work on our cars without touching other components either wich would prove quite expensive. I suppose TT lower arms + S3 hubs will keep a similar roll center as with GTI hubs but the weight should be nice. JonnyC said something about 5-7kg but I didn't understand if he meant the weight of a pair of S3 hubs or the difference in weight between GTI and S3 hubs. If it's the difference then I find it huge !
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Yes, that's right.
And it's the reason why I will swap for the TT arms together with S3 hubs.
Another reason is I got them here ready to fit. The arms are also cheap
and didn't see cheap used TT hubs.
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Bruce, please weigh the GTI and S3 hubs if you can. I'm quite curious on the differences !
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I read of the difference a long time ago and still don't know the weight exactly.
But the decrease in weight was more obvious than with the arms.
And remember the hubs are widely outside and count full in unsprung mass.
The arms count only half.
ps:
of course I will weight them :wink:
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Cool. Off-topic : please also keep me updated with the S3 front bar behind the bumper when you install it. I'd want to see someone install it before I make the step :smiley:
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S3 hub incl. sensor: ~ 3 kg (maybe 2.9 or 3.1 kg)
Golf hub incl. sensor and bearing: ~ 8.2 kg
I guess wheel bearing will be around 2 kg, so iron hub should be ~ 6 kg,
but we'll see.
S3 arm - 2.9 kg
A3/Golf arm - 4.0 kg (welded)
A3/Golf arm - 4,7 kg (cast iron)
I'm gonna check the weight of my old cast iron hubs when the S3 hubs will
have been fitted.
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Hope this is more exactly: :smiley:
S3 hub incl. sensor: 3.4 kg (alloy)
Golf hub incl. sensor 5.1 kg (cast iron)
wheel bearing: 3.15 kg (both versions, S3/TT is just more beautifully machined)
S3 arm - 2.9 kg (forged alloy)
A3/Golf arm - 4.0 kg (welded steel)
A3/Golf arm - 4.7 kg (cast iron)
:wink:
Keep in mind the arm counts only half on unsprung mass, the hub counts 1 : 1.
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Hope this is more exactly: :smiley:
S3 hub incl. sensor: 3.4 kg (cast iron)
Golf hub incl. sensor 5.1 kg (alloy)
I think you have inverted the info :happy2:
wheel bearing: 3.15 kg (both versions, S3/TT is just more beautifully machined)
S3 arm - 2.9 kg (forged alloy)
A3/Golf arm - 4.0 kg (welded)
A3/Golf arm - 4.7 kg (cast iron)
:wink:
Keep in mind the arm counts only half on unsprung mass, the hub counts 1 : 1.
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S3 arm - 2.9 kg (forged alloy)
The S3 arm is 2.4 kg at least for me.
LE: Sorry, the TT arm is 2.4 kg
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Are S3 calipers the same as the R32 version?
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only difference is the colour :happy2:
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Yes they are animal, just the caliper colour and retainer spring is different. My TT arm had exactly 2.9Kg. Bruce, do the bearings from GTI work on the S3 hubs ? If purchasing the hubs in the future I'd like to reuse the GTI bearings as I've alreadu changed them last year so they should be in decent condition !
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Great, so S3 hubs should be direct swap for an R32 then...
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Yes, the GTI bearings fit the S3 hubs.
Thanks Jake !! I was busy today.
Hope this is more exactly: :smiley:
S3 hub incl. sensor: 3.4 kg (alloy)
Golf hub incl. sensor 5.1 kg (cast iron)
wheel bearing: 3.15 kg (both versions, S3/TT is just more beautifully machined)
S3 arm - 2.9 kg (forged alloy)
A3/Golf arm - 4.0 kg (welded)
A3/Golf arm - 4.7 kg (cast iron)
:wink:
Keep in mind the arm counts only half on unsprung mass, the hub counts 1 : 1.
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The weight of the arms depends on if they are with or without the bushing and console.
:wink:
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You sure the s3 bearing Is the same as a gti bearing........ :confused:
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Slightly off topic, but I'd would like to know what difference I would feel JUST fitting the S3 alloy arms to my 2006 GTI? (I assume the 2006 car came with the heavier parts).
Thanks
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The weight of the arms depends on if they are with or without the bushing and console.
You are right. Now I remember weighing the arms without the bushing...
You sure the s3 bearing Is the same as a gti bearing........ :confused:
I am also pretty sure the s3 bearing is the same as the gti bearing. As I know of this is the only type made for Golf/A3/Leon/Octavia with 4 nuts (bolts). The other type has 3 nuts (bolts) and is for the less powerful cars.
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S3 hub incl. sensor: 3.4 kg (alloy)
It's sound find. I measured 2.9 kg fully naked.
S3 arm - 2.9 kg (forged alloy)
S3 or TT arm? I measured TT arm (incl braket and bushes) 2.9kg and 3.5kg (incl balljoint).
A3/Golf arm - 4.0 kg (welded steel)
Yep, it's what I get too (incl braket and bushes)
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Think S3 and TT arms will be the same in weight.
Both are forged alloy.
The only difference is the adjustability of the TT arms.
The S3/TT wheel bearing has fully machined surfaces,
the Golf/A3 bearing has not. So the S3/TT looks more
beautiful. It's possibly a newer generation. I don't know
if there's any advantage.
But the dimensions are still the same, so all the bearings
fit all three hubs.
ps
Does anybody know the amount of offset of the WALK?
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Mine is an 2006 and has the welded arms :happy2:
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Does your GTI come with Xenon lights from factory?
My 2008 GTI with Xenon came with the cast steel ones.
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Does your GTI come with Xenon lights from factory?
My 2008 GTI with Xenon came with the cast steal ones.
no xenons from factory, but the winterpack which included the headlight washersystem :wink:
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I guess they did the stronger cast arms on the GTI only when it came with xenon.
The GTIs with H7 came with welded arms. Only the ED30s all have the cast arms.
The Mk.VI comes with even cheaper pressed steel arms and these are as light as
the S3 arms (but not as strong of course).
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So anyone knows the real difference between TT and S3 hubs? Why does the TT hub needs more modifications and what are they?
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I would like to equip a A3 with 8J0.407.253D TT 8J hubs.
What parts I have to buy additional?
Has anyone done this before?
many thanks
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Nobody has done it yet... but many are planning :)
We are waiting your progress :)
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Yes, that's right.
And it's the reason why I will swap for the TT arms together with S3 hubs.
Another reason is I got them here ready to fit. The arms are also cheap
and didn't see cheap used TT hubs.
Bruce have you done this yet?
I've had the TT arms on for a couple of months and recently picked up the hubs but have run into trouble
Had the car in bits today only to discover the TT ball joints wouldn't mate with the S3 hubs
Any advice on how to overcome this?
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What do you mean by don't mate ? I have the TT arms + balljoints and the S3 hubs and they work perfectly together. You just have to install the balljoint above the arm > check out my pics here > http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12484.30.html
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The TT ball joints fit straight to the S3 hubs fine so I'm confused to what the garage are struggling with.
Danish has this setup and Mike has just fitted the TT wishbones to his Cupra which shares the same hubs as the S3.
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He was telling me that the ball joint wasn't fitting correctly. That it is loose inside the housing within the hub.
He had a spare passat ball joint and was able to show me that was perfect fit but the TT ball joint just wasn't fitting.
Very confused :stupid:
I bought hubs from a scrappie on the previso they were S3 but it looks like he might have given me passat hubs
Even though they share the same part number, could the passat hubs be different from the S3 and hence the reason they won't fit?
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Sounds like the steel insert that is pressed into the alloy hub has stuck onto the passat ball joint.
I had the same issue with a Bentley a few weeks back when I changed the hub/upright for a new one.
Can you get me a pic of the ball joint mount on the S3 hubs and then I can confirm and also a pic of the passat ball joint next to the tt one.
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Thanks Alex
I'll try get pics in the morning :happy2:
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Sounds like the steel insert that is pressed into the alloy hub has stuck onto the passat ball joint.
I had the same issue with a Bentley a few weeks back when I changed the hub/upright for a new one.
Can you get me a pic of the ball joint mount on the S3 hubs and then I can confirm and also a pic of the passat ball joint next to the tt one.
Sounds like that to me also :happy2:
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Interesting read as I have one s3 hub and was about to buy a passat one I found!
Hopefully the steel insert has pulled out.
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Jim I'm going to put up pics later, but info gathered so far seems to suggest that the passat hubs have a tapered housing in the hub so the TT ball joints don't fit
So hold off on the passat hub for a while
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ETKA lists same PN for ally hubbed Passat balljoints and S3 - so they should be the same...
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ETKA lists same PN for ally hubbed Passat balljoints and S3 - so they should be the same...
You're right i've checked through the whole lot and all share the same part numbers ( ball joints, hubs etc )
Photo bucket seems to be playing up so i can't get up the pics yet
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OK update on this for all researching this
All seems to be ok, over reaction on my part :chicken:
Should have researched better :fighting:
I've since learnt ball joints need to go on top of TT arms to mate with the hubs
Also seems they were S3 hubs all along, so still can't comment on wether passat hubs will work but they share the same part number so can assume there the same and that they will fit
Big fail on my part, sorry for any misinformation :sad1:
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I have a set of Front S3 Alloy Hubs in good condition. for sale if someone is interrested? :smiley:
Only thing is that they are here in sweden. :P
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I have a set of Front S3 Alloy Hubs in good condition. for sale if someone is interrested? :smiley:
Only thing is that they are here in sweden. :P
PM me i'm in Denmark and could help you sell them here :drinking:
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Through lack of not wanting to revive a dead link
I am posting with the serious need for help
I've had some issues with my Touran 1.9tdi 6spd.
Things I've modded
Polybushed everything bar engine
H&R suspension kit 50mm drop (adapted from 50mm)
TT TFSI Ali hubs (312mm discs) and wishbones
Need TT tie rod ends as mine are on 6 turns
Drop links are fine I believe.
I didn't change the 1.9 shafts
Basically as I have lowered the car the driveshafts have moved from being like
/\ to --- --- so they are sat pressed hard together so the pinion gears are getting hammered and my diff blew, as there wasn't enough endfloat.
They fitted fine into the 55mm hubs otherwise.
Realistically I need shorter driveshafts or unmodify
Do you know of and driveshafts and/or boxes that will fit (preferably with longer ratios)
Any information would help
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The TT shafts are longer than your TDI ones so something isn't right if you have issues with TT alloy hubs and your stock shafts are to long