MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: steve D on February 22, 2010, 07:40:20 pm
-
Ok so i've had a sach clutch kit fitted as my standard clutch was slipping after having REVO stage1 done, but i'm finding it hard to get it in gear (mainly 3rd to 4th) when driving balls out!
Its fine when just driving normal but when trying to change fast it just seems to very stiff and you just cant change gear that quick... but if you take your time it's fine.
Any ideas Lads?
Also can the clutch peddle be ajusted so that the bite is near the bottom of the peddle rather than the top like the OEM clutch.
Cheers.
-
No ideas then Lads :confused:
Will get some more miles done and hopfully its will loosen up a bit!
-
im having mine (with a solid flywheel) fitted at vwr in 2 weeks time along with a diff so i will let you know
-
No ideas then Lads :confused:
Will get some more miles done and hopfully its will loosen up a bit!
You lot are a bit tight with your info.......drove this the other day. 3rd to 4th changing at 5500rpm = no problem. At 6000rpm+ it will not go in, drops into neutral but will not pull back into 4th unless you pause, by which time RPM has dropped. Obviously no good for the Pod or 30-130 days.
Loads of threads regarding Sachs clutches, surely someone has seen this!!! Looking at possibley an uprated clutch myself so more info the better. DSGers do not need to reply.
-
Hey mate in the same boat my original luk clutch on the ed30 has started to slip when my giac map is on cars at 21k miles! looking to upgrade to a Sachs aswell! Did you change your flywheel? As I'm being told if its just started to slip and there is no juddering from the flywheel I should be ok! :confused: I've switched my map off and the cars driving fine
-
No ideas then Lads :confused:
Will get some more miles done and hopfully its will loosen up a bit!
You lot are a bit tight with your info.......drove this the other day. 3rd to 4th changing at 5500rpm = no problem. At 6000rpm+ it will not go in, drops into neutral but will not pull back into 4th unless you pause, by which time RPM has dropped. Obviously no good for the Pod or 30-130 days.
Loads of threads regarding Sachs clutches, surely someone has seen this!!! Looking at possibley an uprated clutch myself so more info the better. DSGers do not need to reply.
Not in the right gang mate!! must be down to being a Newbie :laugh:
-
Hey mate in the same boat my original luk clutch on the ed30 has started to slip when my giac map is on cars at 21k miles! looking to upgrade to a Sachs aswell! Did you change your flywheel? As I'm being told if its just started to slip and there is no juddering from the flywheel I should be ok! :confused: I've switched my map off and the cars driving fine
Yes mate i had the job lot done,had a SMF fitted though.
infact when it was removed the flywheel looked more of a mess than the clutch plates :confused:
I put mine back on the standard map aswell while i waited for the sachs clutch to be delivered but after a few days it was slipping on that.
If i was you i'd change the flywheel at the same time to just to be on the safe side otherwise you might be kicking yourself and its gonna cost you more in the long run.
-
sounds like you pressing on the clutch isnt actuating the mechanism correctly.
If you try driving up to 5500rpm then lift but not touch the clutch pedal its easy for the lever to shift into neutral under no load.
Does the SMF replicate the distances etc of the OE clutch?
You may be (due to some incorrect or incompatible component)at the limit of your clutch adjustment.
I would also be looking at checking your clutch master cylinder fluid level, maybe bleed it, and maybe trying pumping the pedal a few times,then going 'ballls out' soon after to see if the change up 'works' as a result...
hth
-
Yes it's the same the OE clutch, the cable has been ajusted but hasnt made any difference at all..
Will check the fluid though.
It looks like im not the only one thats having this problem with the sachs kit...
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?68291-SMFW-Sachs-Clutch-Slow-change-at-high-revs&highlight=sachs
http://www.vagoc.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=3071&highlight=sachs
It really makes me wonder about the aftermarket parts that are on the market for these cars,so far i've had nothing but problems.
-
come to think of it, Im sure a user reported on here that the clutch was wrong for the car once Sachs got involved.
found it
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,11046.0.html
:happy2:
-
come to think of it, Im sure a user reported on here that the clutch was wrong for the car once Sachs got involved.
found it
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,11046.0.html
:happy2:
Cheers John makes some interesting reading, will have to check up on whats exactly been fitted in mine!
-
never had a prob with my Sachs clutch changing gears at over 6k rpm! :smiley:
-
never had a prob with my Sachs clutch changing gears at over 6k rpm! :smiley:
Did you have a SMF fitted aswell and what year is your car please?
-
never had a prob with my Sachs clutch changing gears at over 6k rpm! :smiley:
Did you have a SMF fitted aswell and what year is your car please?
nope kept the OEM flywheel in there as it was fine. 06 GTI so it probably had the poo LURPAK clutch in there (slipped a goodun shortly after Revo S1)
-
never had a prob with my Sachs clutch changing gears at over 6k rpm! :smiley:
Did you have a SMF fitted aswell and what year is your car please?
Steve I think it wouldn't be a bad idea if you PM'd Toby (on ASN, VAGOC) and have a word with him. You can compare problems and see if he can help/give advice on what to do next. As it needs to be right, especially with the money it cost..
-
never had a prob with my Sachs clutch changing gears at over 6k rpm! :smiley:
Did you have a SMF fitted aswell and what year is your car please?
nope kept the OEM flywheel in there as it was fine. 06 GTI so it probably had the poo LURPAK clutch in there (slipped a goodun shortly after Revo S1)
Ok cheers :smiley:
-
never had a prob with my Sachs clutch changing gears at over 6k rpm! :smiley:
Did you have a SMF fitted aswell and what year is your car please?
Steve I think it wouldn't be a bad idea if you PM'd Toby (on ASN, VAGOC) and have a word with him. You can compare problems and see if he can help/give advice on what to do next. As it needs to be right, especially with the money it cost..
Yeah Ben think that will be a good idea,deffo some digging to be done and like you say its not a cheap kit so i need it working as it should be.
-
Unfortunately I found myself in the same situation with my SMF clutch from Sachs. I previously used OEM DMF + Sachs performance pressure plate and disc and everything was perfect. After installing the SMF clutch and properly burning it in for about 1000km, I couldn't change gears fast under WOT although the clutch seemd perfectly normal under normal driving. I wasn't insipired as to measure the total thickness of the clutch assemly compared to the OEm one but will do that when my Sachs SMF clutch return from expertise. In the meantime I've put back my previous Sachs performance PP and disc with a new OEm flywheel. These hold torque just fine but the OEM flywheel won't stand the torque for long (previous one lasted for 10k km only) !
PS : I've tried the SMF clutch with the disc reversed also and it did the same ! Damn, I can't even remember how many times I've switched clutches in this car :D !
-
Unfortunately I found myself in the same situation with my SMF clutch from Sachs. I previously used OEM DMF + Sachs performance pressure plate and disc and everything was perfect. After installing the SMF clutch and properly burning it in for about 1000km, I couldn't change gears fast under WOT although the clutch seemd perfectly normal under normal driving. I wasn't insipired as to measure the total thickness of the clutch assemly compared to the OEm one but will do that when my Sachs SMF clutch return from expertise. In the meantime I've put back my previous Sachs performance PP and disc with a new OEm flywheel. These hold torque just fine but the OEM flywheel won't stand the torque for long (previous one lasted for 10k km only) !
PS : I've tried the SMF clutch with the disc reversed also and it did the same ! Damn, I can't even remember how many times I've switched clutches in this car :D !
What stage are you running to muller the OEM flywheel? Have Sachs taken your SMF and clutch to inspect it? A little confused by your post :ashamed:
-
Stage 3 with about 375HP/465NM. I have 2 clutch setups :
1) DMF (OEM) + Sachs performance pressure plate and disc
2) SMF clutch from Sachs racing
I had 1) in my car until about 6 months ago and replaced it with 2) because the oem DMF got destroyed in 10.000km (the Sachs pressure plate and disc were in perfect condition though). 2) holds torque perfectly, engagement is very precise and engine brake is a wonder compared to 1) but unfortunately it won't let me change gears fast so I removed 2) after only 2000km and sent it to Sachs for expertise. In the meantime I put back in numebr 1) with a new OEM flywheel . Hope I've made myself clear this time :)
-
Stage 3 with about 375HP/465NM. I have 2 clutch setups :
1) DMF (OEM) + Sachs performance pressure plate and disc
2) SMF clutch from Sachs racing
I had 1) in my car until about 6 months ago and replaced it with 2) because the oem DMF got destroyed in 10.000km (the Sachs pressure plate and disc were in perfect condition though). 2) holds torque perfectly, engagement is very precise and engine brake is a wonder compared to 1) but unfortunately it won't let me change gears fast so I removed 2) after only 2000km and sent it to Sachs for expertise. In the meantime I put back in numebr 1) with a new OEM flywheel . Hope I've made myself clear this time :)
Hi Fuscobal,
Could you please inform me as to the results with Sachs and their SMF??
I'm in the middle of ordering their 5002 clutch and pressure plate and planned on ordering the SMF too.
Do you have the spare part number for the SMF?? :happy2:
-
Could you please inform me as to the results with Sachs and their SMF??
He is still waiting for a response from Sachs, so unfortunately there's no info yet.
-
Well just rang the sachs help line and been told the SMF is the problem and he said you should stick with the DMF... but then went on to say that if you car is running more power than standard expect to be replacing the DMF quite often :confused:
-
Well just rang the sachs help line and been told the SMF is the problem and he said you should stick with the DMF... but then went on to say that if you car is running more power than standard expect to be replacing the DMF quite often :confused:
:stupid: that's not quite helping is it?? :confused:
aren't they going to solve the problem they have with the smf?? :sad1:
-
Well just rang the sachs help line and been told the SMF is the problem and he said you should stick with the DMF... but then went on to say that if you car is running more power than standard expect to be replacing the DMF quite often :confused:
:stupid: that's not quite helping is it?? :confused:
aren't they going to solve the problem they have with the smf?? :sad1:
I know, bloody great news!!
From what he was saying the car comes with a DMF and thats what should be fitted and if you change to a SMF then expect to have problems!
I ask why they sell the SMF then and he said sachs dont make the SMF for cars with a DMF so it must be from another type of car that come with a SMF!
I'm very confused with the whole matter :confused:
If anyone else can shed some light on this it would be good!
Plus is there anyone who has fitted the SMF without any problems?
-
This is getting beyond a f**king joke.. :fighting: So they supply and sell a uprated clutch and SMF kit for a ED30/S3 for god knows how much money, knowing full well it will cause problems???? :stupid: :confused:
There are only 2 ED30/S3's that I know of with their clutch and SMF kit fitted and BOTH are having problems.. Also (for all the modded manual guys out there) is there no other alternative for your cars other than going through a new DMF every 10k? Because that would put me right off getting one.. :confused:
-
That sounds horrendous mate. Hope you get it sorted.
-
i must admit it kind of puts me off the sachs :sad1:
maybe these:
http://www.goapr.com/products/dxdclutch.php?id=20tfsitrans
-
That answer is is really weird. There is an .pdf application list where the SMF clutch I've ordered appears as specifically designed for our cars. Anyone can check by the code. Unfortunately, on my .pdf, thhis clutch only comes as a kit with SMF+PP+disc so the SMF doesn't have it's own code. So here we go guys > http://www.sachsracing.com/owx_medien/media634/63407.pdf
Check out pages 219-221. On page 219 there are 2 kits for :
2.0 GTI, 147 kW
2.0 TDI, 100 kW
2.0 TDI 16V
2.0 TDI 16V 4motion
2.0 TDI, 103 kW
2.0 TDI 4motion
...with engine codes > AXX, AZV, BKD, BMM, BPY, BWA
1) 883089 000034 > Manual Transmission, 6-speed
for vehicles with single disc clutch
With screws
max. transmittable engine torque [Nm]:530
ONLY FOR MOTORSPORT!
Contains rigid flywheel, clutch cover assembly and
clutch disc
torsion damper plate with organic facings
not pre-assembled
2) 883089 000035 > Manual Transmission, 6-speed
for vehicles with single disc clutch
With screws
max. transmittable engine torque [Nm]:600
ONLY FOR MOTORSPORT!
Contains rigid flywheel, clutch cover assembly and
clutch disc
torsion damper sintered plate
not pre-assembled
If you follow this link you find out a third option but for CAWB, CCTA (these are probably newer TSi engines) >
3) 883089 000046 > http://www.sachsperformance.com/EU/sachs-race-performance-clutch/vw/vw-golf-v-1k1-1003/20-gti-147-kw-102004/index.htm
My engine code is AXX and I have 1) 883089 000034 wich according to their own application list is correct !!!
-
That answer is is really weird. There is an .pdf application list where the SMF clutch I've ordered appears as specifically designed for our cars. Anyone can check by the code. Unfortunately, on my .pdf, thhis clutch only comes as a kit with SMF+PP+disc so the SMF doesn't have it's own code. So here we go guys > http://www.sachsracing.com/owx_medien/media634/63407.pdf
Check out pages 219-221. On page 219 there are 2 kits for :
2.0 GTI, 147 kW
2.0 TDI, 100 kW
2.0 TDI 16V
2.0 TDI 16V 4motion
2.0 TDI, 103 kW
2.0 TDI 4motion
...with engine codes > AXX, AZV, BKD, BMM, BPY, BWA
1) 883089 000034 > Manual Transmission, 6-speed
for vehicles with single disc clutch
With screws
max. transmittable engine torque [Nm]:530
ONLY FOR MOTORSPORT!
Contains rigid flywheel, clutch cover assembly and
clutch disc
torsion damper plate with organic facings
not pre-assembled
2) 883089 000035 > Manual Transmission, 6-speed
for vehicles with single disc clutch
With screws
max. transmittable engine torque [Nm]:600
ONLY FOR MOTORSPORT!
Contains rigid flywheel, clutch cover assembly and
clutch disc
torsion damper sintered plate
not pre-assembled
If you follow this link you find out a third option but for CAWB, CCTA (these are probably newer TSi engines) >
3) 883089 000046 > http://www.sachsperformance.com/EU/sachs-race-performance-clutch/vw/vw-golf-v-1k1-1003/20-gti-147-kw-102004/index.htm
My engine code is AXX and I have 1) 883089 000034 wich according to their own application list is correct !!!
i have found the same info, but to what use if sachs themselves don't trust their own product??? :sad1:
-
fuscobal did you buy your parts as a kit?? the 34 kit??
If so even their parts parred to eachother have trouble?
-
This was who i rang (thanks to greenouse for the link) http://www.sachs-boge.co.uk/
He said these clutch kits are design for race teams that will change the flywheels quite often and the problem is people are now fitting them to high powered road cars and the DMF just cant cope with the extra torque.
He also said the SMF will cope with the extra power but will mash your gear box in a short space of time and seemed to be aware of the gear change problems at high RPM!!!
So to sum it up if you fit a Sachs clutch you either use a DMF and drive like a fanny if its been re-mapped or drive the car hard and replace the DMF very often OR use a SMF which will cope with the extra power but means you have to change gear before 6krpm and it will wreck your gearbox!
What a joke.
-
Yes, I bought the ...34 kit wich includes SMF, PP and organic disc. I don't know if it's a problem between the 3 parts of the kit or between one of them and soem other OEM component of the car. Here's a short description of what happened to my car clutch related since the beginning :
1) OEM clutch let me down at about 50k km wich is decent but I was only stage 2 at that time (270HP/350NM)
2) Spec stage 2 with aluminium 3kg SMF + PP + organic disc > This one was properly burned in for about 1000km and then it was slipping even at 1/2 WOT !?!? The chatter was also unbearable so I sold it to someone with lower torque and it worked ok
3) OEM DMF + Sachs performance plate and organic disc > the clutch was very good and shifts were also lightning fast for 10k km when my OEM DMF got destroyed
4) SACHS SMF + PP + organic disc (the kit we're talkin about here) > This kit is absolutely wonderful in terms of clutch pedal feel/engagement precision and engine brake. Unfortunately it doesn't let me change gears fast wich is unacceptable if I want to go to Nurburgring in 2 month
5) I've put back number 3) with a new OEM DMF until number 4) gets back from expertise and everything is back to normal again but who knows how much the DMF will hold my torque
Wow, Steve what you say is serious. There are dozen of SMF kits on the market and none of them are advertised as destrying he gearbox. There are many that use them and don't have this shifting problem. At least 3 mechanics I've asked said the pressure plate on this kit is weak and that's why I can't change fast. I wonder why South Bend for example use a "modified" Sachs pressure plate for their SMF kits. What's not good enough about this pressure plate and needs to be improved ?
PS : Few days ago I driven an Octy VRS with about the same engine mods as me (tuning made by MTM) and the guy just fitted the Sounth Bend stage 3 SMF kit. While the pedal was very soft (close to stock) and the engine brake wasn't near as good as the one from my Sachs SMF kit, the changing of the gears at WOT was pretty normal (a little bit slower and notchier than an OEM Scirocco 2 TSI I've driven yesterday) !
Measures I'm going to take to see if things improve :
- Recently installed BSH pendelum lower engine mount and the shifting improved sligtly (was what I expected)
- Installed Forge short-shift wich didn't affect changing in any way, just the travel is shorter (was what I expected)
- Will install 42DD and FFE shifter bushings wich have been highly praised for making gearchange much faster and precise (these will be here in few days)
-
To be fair i couldnt quite believe what i was hearing :confused:
The bite on mine is right at the top of the peddle which i was told it wouldnt be aswell!
The clutch is quite noisey too but after having twin plates in other cars i've owned i can live with that.
It's just a nightmare for me as i bought this car as a family car for me a my missus to enjoy as we have are first child due anyday now and ive had nothing but problems since i decided to have it re-mapped.
Plus it doesnt look like it going to be sorted anytime soon at this rate... looks like im going to have to look at other clutch kits that are up to the job so that's another 1k + down the sh*tter.
-
If it helps Steve I know there are quite a few lads who have the Sachs clutch with the OEM DMF and have gone well over 10k on it with no problems. This is what Toby (lad with S3) has now done after the problems he had with his and AFAIK got Sachs to pay for it and sent the SMF back. Something which I would be looking at doing if I were you, as why should you lose £1k???
-
If it helps Steve I know there are quite a few lads who have the Sachs clutch with the OEM DMF and have gone well over 10k on it with no problems. This is what Toby (lad with S3) has now done after the problems he had with his and AFAIK got Sachs to pay for it and sent the SMF back. Something which I would be looking at doing if I were you, as why should you lose £1k???
I dont no what to think now tbh Ben, im going to have a word with Andy and see what he can sort but like you say why should i be out of pocket, but i just want the car running right as im fed up with p1ssing around...still got the HPFP sat here with the faulty collets as nothing has been sorted about it!!!
-
What a joke it is when every manual ed30 owner can't simpley buy a decent clutch setup :fighting:
-
What a joke it is when every manual ed30 owner can't simpley buy a decent clutch setup :fighting:
It's slightly worrying. Considering how big the tuning scene is for VW's and for how long GTI's have been about, it really does make you wonder.
-
This is shocking news :sad1:
Having discussed the topic of diffs and clutches with Awesome about my old Ed30 they also mentioned issues with uprated clutches amd the horrific prices of them and the DMF.
The APR clutches are probably an unknown quantity in the UK.
It seems that with over 300lbs going thru the transmission will eventually tell on the OE clutch but I do think the pricing of these items are extortionate.
Are the S3 items bigger than the Edition 30?
I'm sure Awesome are now dealing with Helix which I've used before in motorsport and are very strong.
It is true that many race teams change the DMF on a regular basis...their budgets stretch much further than mine!
Good luck!
-
my helix is rated at 450 ft/lb .
future proof i hope !
-
What's the price for a Helix SMF kit in Europe and how does it deal with lightning fast changes ?
-
Ok guys, Finally I've got the results back from Sachs. Their support was top notch (I've probably exchanged 30 e-mails with Mr. Markus Hammer in order to properly explain the problem. The report says :
Cover 88 3082 999 798:
The measurement of the cover reflected, that the clamping force and the release force is weak. The setup height in clamped situation is perfect. The contact pattern displayed small heat spots at several places.
Disc 88 1861 999 878:
The disc displayed no noticeable problems. A lining wear does not really happened. All the specifications (lateral runout / distortion = less than 0,18mm) are fulfilled.
Flywheel 00 3071 999 625:
The rigid flyhweel reflected no appreciable complaints.
Releaser:
The releaser reflected also no noilcable problems.
Result:
Due to accomodation, we have decided to assume a warranty for the claimed ZF Sachs Race parts and we will send a replacement for those units and the releaser (unmodified) back to you!
PS : Last weekend I drove a Leon Cupra with the exact same clutch and power/torque figures and it was shifting like dream. Not even the smallest hint of notchiness. By comparison, I've seen the same problem as mine on a Octavia 2 RS with South Bend stage 3 SMF kit !
-
good news fuscobal :congrats:
I might go for the sachs smf then, to much hazzle finding a sachs uprated for a luk dmf.
:wink:
-
Let me put it on the car first when it gets here. Only when I see it works well I will celebrate ! :jumpmove:
-
nice info, just for clarity ...
1. are sachs saying there was nothing wrong with what you sent them, but they are going to replace it with new anyway?
(which is good but as you say be interesting to see if the new kit is any different when fitted..........if there is then they MUST have been different......)
2. was there any feedback from them concerning using a SMF on the 2.0TFSi engine and long term gearbox damage?
thanks
John
-
They're going to replace all parts except for the bearing although only the cover was weak.
The measurement of the cover reflected, that the clamping force and the release force is weak
-
:happy2:
ok so my probably poor knowledge
wouldnt that infer that the clutch would engage easier/slip more likely to occur
but most importantly would that not suggest the opposite to what in theory would be needed for poor ability to change gear at high rpm? (excessive clamping load)
or is my asssement to simplistic?
Im trying to reconcile Sachs reply with the initial symptoms which to me dont match.
-
A weak clamping force is the reason for fast gear change failure at high rpm.
I think that his problem will be solved with this replacement, but I guess we'll just wait and see until it's on the car again.
Cheers mates!
-
had my sachs clutch in last week...only done 200 miles so far ..no boost just nice steady driving.It feels a tad lumpy pulling of but other than that it feels fine..fingers crossed its up to the job when the map goes back on
-
Clutch is here. I will install it next week and report back. If it works fine I will get drunk (It's probably the 7th time when I'm pulling out the clutch since I've got the car) !
-
It would seem after reading this thread that there are real issues with the MK5 clutches for some. It's a shame as the car is a brilliant package and remapping to these levels should not give issues on a 'performance' clutch!
There is so much more choice on the 1.8t set up....I ran a VR6 Sachs item on my APR Stage 3+ pumping out 350bhp/350lbs and it held it no problem.....cheap as chips from Jabbasport with a singlemass flywheel.
Good luck with it.
-
Problems here are not torque handling but rather gear engagement smoothness !
-
Ok, the SMF clutch is back on the car. I will have to do some 500-1000kms before I can WOT but the first impressions are positive. Engagement is definately easier !
-
Ok, the SMF clutch is back on the car. I will have to do some 500-1000kms before I can WOT but the first impressions are positive. Engagement is definately easier !
I have just recieved my kit, but the bearing is missing, isn't it a part of the kit??? :confused:
-
No, it isn't. You must buy it separately !
-
No, it isn't. You must buy it separately !
do you have the partnr?? :happy2:
-
I think it's :
0A5 141 671 - release bearing with hydraulic operation
-
Right guys i need to clear a few things up on this thread;
Firstly this link - http://www.sachsperformance.com/EU/sachs-race-performance-clutch/vw/vw-golf-v-1k1-1003/20-gti-147-kw-102004/index.htm
This is not a link to the official Sachs website, it is just some German blokes who have setup a site and who sell Sachs clutches. Other than this they have no connection with Sachs.
Next this link - http://www.sachs-boge.co.uk/ is to ZF Trading who import and distribute the Sachs standard/OE parts. This is why the guy on their helpline spoke so much rubbish about the High Performance Flywheel kit - He doesnt know what he is talking about!
If you want to buy or have any problems with your Sachs clutch you need to speak to www.racepads.co.uk. We are the only official UK importer and distributor for Sachs high performance and we have a large network of distributors and fitment centres.
Thanks
Steve
steve@racepads.co.uk
-
I've heard of several people now running uprated clutches on stage 1 and 2 Edition 30/S3 who had similar issues....it seems it's a problem that keeps rearing it's ugly head especially considering the cost of these items!
I wonder what the 'real' underlying causes are?
-
No underlying problem it's just the friction plate is only rated to some stock ish figures or upto around 290bhp as mine was one of the first to go on stage one Revo and everything was fine it was just the friction plate could not grip enough
-
my clutch was fitted friday done 800 kilometers since and i still have judder + gearchange is different than before. :sad1:
Friend of mine had same setup fitted 3 days before, he has none of my problems :confused:
-
sorry to hear :confused:
if you both fitted the exact same parts (did you check the part no's of the bits you both fitted) ?, then its time to find the differences.
do you both have the same flywheel (luk or sachs)? maybe your flywheel needs replaced?
what about considering the actuation system (replace fluid,check for bent hoses?)
-
both cars fitted with sachs SMF, only difference was that his clutchplate had orientationmarks on as to which way it was to be fitted, mine didn't have these orientationmarks :sad1:
So it might be a different batch/factory eventhough they had the same Sachs spare partnumber.
-
No underlying problem it's just the friction plate is only rated to some stock ish figures or upto around 290bhp as mine was one of the first to go on stage one Revo and everything was fine it was just the friction plate could not grip enough
That's the OEM clutch though isn't it Mat? Not the Sachs one that went on Stage 1 Revo?
The problem to me seems to lie with the Sachs SMF, not the clutch. I know of quite a few lads who have the Sachs clutch with a new OEM DMF and they work fine. But I have now heard of 4 cars that have had the Sachs SMF set up and ALL have experienced problems.. This can't be a coincident surely? :confused:
-
From what I understand the weak point on the OEM platform point seems to be the DMF and not the clutch?
If this is the case what is the point in replacing the DMF with another OEM one as surely if will fail again after a short amount of miles?
Does an uprated clutch extend the life of the DMF somehow?
-
im sure the VWR demo car has a standard clutch, not sure about DMF but it feels like a standard clutch
-
From what I understand the weak point on the OEM platform point seems to be the DMF and not the clutch?
If this is the case what is the point in replacing the DMF with another OEM one as surely if will fail again after a short amount of miles?
Does an uprated clutch extend the life of the DMF somehow?
Good point!
It seems to be that it's the achilles heal as far as big power set up's are concerned or even stage 1 people seem to be getting failures. From the previuos post that race teams tend to change the DMF on a regular basis that maybe the case but for normal folk surely the cost of having to do this is prohibitvely expensive.
Is there a 100% fit and forget it solution especially for people running stage 2 and more?
I'd be even more concerned on track use where a diff would put even more strain on the transmission (clutch in particular)
-
My mate has a Spec Stage 3 SMF and clutch kit on his Stage 2+ S3 that was around £1k (that's not fitted by the way). Apart from it being a tad rattly (which even I could put up with and i'm terrible with unwanted noises) and taking a few k to settle in completely it's a proper bit of kit. Launches very easily now, handles the power with no worries at all.
I warned him not to go with a SMF set up as I had heard bad reports (Sachs set up) about it being loud and not being able to change gear quickly at high revs. But the Spec set up is very much recommended in my eyes. :happy2:
-
Sorry for the noobish question:
I resently bought a 2005 mk5 GTI 2.0 TFSI and now thinking about remapping. My 2 choises are:
1.REVO (price.730€ inc. errorcode readings, installation and setting up(Boost 6, Timing 5 ja Fuel 9)
2.Local shop's remap price. 440€ (+45hp +80nM) inc. dyno runs before and after. (http://vtechtuning.co.uk/) <-- their Finland unit.
Trying to read every post about tuning in 2 days and have picked up alot of new information for me. However the clutch upgrading issue was pretty shocking to me :scared: Do I really need to worry about having to spend 1k+ on a new clutch after just first stage? Before reading this I was under the impression that Stage 1 was perfectly safe with 100% stock parts.
-
Theres no 100% when tuning Im afraid. I assume you are manual ?
Depends how many miles and how your car has been treated to some extent, along with the remap (amount of gain ,plus graph of delivery)
Any decent remap will give you good bhp/torque gains (torque especially which kills clutches/flywheels)
Most later cars seem to get away better with a stage 1 (either due to age or improved clutch parts)
Theres also a difference K03 GTI vs K04 Edition 30
The K04 cars tend to remap to higher values and therefore tend to have more issues sooner.
for your car its a K03 (lower low rpm torque hit , easier on clutch) , but its 2005 , so you may have an earlier version as well as many more miles (?)
consider it all as a matched set , flywheel / clutch plate / pressure plate / release bearing.
If one part is marginal or a weak link , youre going to get clutch slip.
I say talk to your tuner about it , but get the remap and budget for a clutch in the future just in case.
Also you want to consider 'respecting the clutch' once remapped , so no low rpm pulls (try and change down first) , no traffic light grand prixs etc, these may prolong its life.
Its a 2005 car , so you may also want to consider suspension/bushings as any power increase is going to highlight any age related weaknesses.
In remap terms, REVO is tried and tested but given you are in Finland support may be an issue?
The local shop remap, is it their own map ? or have they bought it in?
normally on this forum we would say , stay away from 'custom' remaps. But you may find its a well known name under the covers.
Anyone else had the remap locally that you can talk to?
They may be better for aftersales care and support if you hit issues.
Id say just go for it , dont worry too much about the what if's, if it breaks you'll have to fix it :happy2:
Drive it to enjoy it :pomppomp:
-
Yes, I do drive a manual and she has done around 67 000 (very low milage in Finland since we do not sit in traffic so much as people in the UK might. The avarage for a 2005 car in here is around 100-150k). Overall the car seems to be in a very good condition. K03 upgrades around 40-50hp and 80nM mesured from the engine in stage 1? so that'd be like ~245hp?
The problem Im having with the REVO dealer is that his package only included reading errorcodes, installation and the basic setup. What I've red here many have recommended that every remap should be done to match the car perfectly since not every engine is the same?
The local shop offers dyno runs before and after (and they change the maps to stock in case you're taking your car to service). So the service seems a bit better. The company is called http://vtechtuning.co.uk/ so they should have some shops in the UK too? Has anyone here used their maps?
A little offtopic question: can you change the REVO chip back to stock by yourself without having to visit the shop to do it for you?
I'm also currently looking to buy a set of lowering springs (Main reason for getting em at this point is for the looks). Im very close to ordering. Just dont quite know if I want to lower my car with 20mm or 30mm tho the 30mm seems more tempting at the moment.
Thanks for the precious tips John_O
-Dan
-
Can anybody confirm how much does the Sachs SMF weight? If it is LWFW (light weight flywheel), some chatter and noises are normal. If it is the same OE weight, the SMF conversion is the best thing that can happen to a VW. Trust me on this folks.
-Berk
-
Can anybody confirm how much does the Sachs SMF weight? If it is LWFW (light weight flywheel), some chatter and noises are normal. If it is the same OE weight, the SMF conversion is the best thing that can happen to a VW. Trust me on this folks.
-Berk
Well we took the gearbox and clutch pack out this weekend. (Sachs uprated clutch pack and SMF mentioned earlier in this tread) The SMF was not level to the clutch plate, only the outer 1/3 of the clutch plate had contact with the SMF, and as a resolt the SMF had been very hot, now i'm anxious to see what Sachs does :surprised:
and to the above the SMF is not lightweight, still you have to accept some chatter from the transmission with this clutch setup. :smiley:
-
corrct, that is given with the LWFW
-
OEM has like 11kg and Sachs SMF 7.4Kg if I remember right !
-
Am reading about quite a few more failures now with the sachs uprated clutch and OEM DMF. Not good. I guess these are starting to appear now after the owners have had the clutch installed for a few thousand miles.
So I really don't know what to do with mine, I'm still stage 1 at the moment and the clutch is holding up ok. But.... I want to go 2+ and I want to do more track days and 1/4 mile runs and by the sounds of it the OEM DMF will not be able to cut it. Which means I would need to go with an SMF and risk my nice classy car sounding like a tractor. Maybe I just need to sell up now as this just seems to be compromised solution for us at the moment :sad1:
-
?
danishmk5gti's was an SMF matchup that had a problem.
Who's having issues with a sachs/dmf setup ?
maybe sachsuk could also help if that is the case :happy2:
-
?
danishmk5gti's was an SMF matchup that had a problem.
Who's having issues with a sachs/dmf setup ?
maybe sachsuk could also help if that is the case :happy2:
the SMF wasn't level with the clutch, only 2/3 touched :santa:
-
This thread also discussed the OEM DMF and sachs clutch and suggests there is not much point to it as eventually the OEM dmf will fail which unfortunately looks like it may be true.
-
Done over 40k on mine and it's been fine and was checked when the diff went it and all was good :smiley:
-
Really worried about DMF failuere reports with Sachs!
I am just 1k miles into new Sachs organic and new OEM LUK DMF. Early days but will report any probs as I cover higher than average miles as 17K per year. Car is Ed30 Stage 1 Bluefin on 27K miles and independently verified just over 300BHP.
BTW although orginal clutch was slipping, the old clutch and DMF seem to be in excellent condition according to VW specialsist who changed it and looks OK to me but I have limited knowledge about what I am looking for in terms of wear.
Wondering if its worth selling on the OEM flywheel that I took off if it is in good condition?
Csman