Post by: Cozza on October 28, 2019, 11:34:20 am
Post by: rich83 on October 28, 2019, 12:18:08 pm
Post by: Cozza on October 28, 2019, 02:05:24 pm
Post by: GTI DAZ on October 28, 2019, 02:16:50 pm
Post by: Cozza on October 28, 2019, 02:28:14 pm
Post by: GTI DAZ on October 28, 2019, 03:01:54 pm
could also be down to the rollers, ive seen rather optimistic ones saying cars make well over what they are, best bet i believe is a hub dyno, takes out any incorrect correction factor.
Post by: ljc19630 on October 28, 2019, 03:26:15 pm
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Post by: Cozza on October 28, 2019, 04:52:31 pm
im with you on the one, a freiend had a stage 2 leon, made under the numbers, found out the car was poorly kept before his ownership. mad about 30bhp less,
could also be down to the rollers, ive seen rather optimistic ones saying cars make well over what they are, best bet i believe is a hub dyno, takes out any incorrect correction factor.
Good point, I know some dynos are very optimistic and that’s not what I’m looking for. Ideally looking to get it on a well reputable one, where I’m going to get some accurate results, but unfortunately it looks like all of them are a fair distance from me
Post by: Cozza on October 28, 2019, 05:02:40 pm
Take it to R-Tech to get it mapped properly. Revo is ok but a generic, not custom map. Had my KO4 conversion done a few weeks back and wouldn’t consider anyone else to work on my car. Niki and the team and simply the best.
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Unfortunately R-Tech are a fair distance from me plus I was already stage 1 revo otherwise I would’ve gone straight to them without a doubt. I am very happy with my stage 2+ revo map, the midrange is mental, do feel like it could give abit more up the top end but this is why I’d like to get it on a dyno to see exactly what it’s putting out
Post by: Stig_gti on October 29, 2019, 02:04:58 pm
Post by: ljc19630 on October 29, 2019, 02:22:55 pm
Numbers ain’t everything, it’s how it drives nice smooth curves makes for a lot better drive.
Agree totally - Mines 352/379 and perfect. with low/mid-range TQ able to be fully utilized. Mine was Revo STG2 prior to the K04 Conversion, and R-Tech have suppased expectations with their custom mapping :driver:
Post by: colesey on October 29, 2019, 03:34:13 pm
https://imgur.com/PXB8d9h
Post by: bobby_fodge on October 29, 2019, 03:39:32 pm
Revo 2+ v RTechWowsers
https://imgur.com/PXB8d9h
Post by: Cozza on October 29, 2019, 03:54:19 pm
Revo 2+ v RTech
https://imgur.com/PXB8d9h
Just what I was looking for. Many thanks. Judging from that graph might be missing out on abit of torque compared to the likes of a R-Tech map. Saying that the revo graph still looks good and as Stig_gti said it’s about how it drives, which I’m happy with. Just nice to have some numbers to back it up with too
Post by: pudding on October 29, 2019, 06:17:08 pm
The 3000-3500rpm area is especially temperamental on the K04 engine due to the flow characteristics of the K04-063 turbo. It likes to chillax for a bit and then chuck everything in at once. You can clearly see Revo have dealt with that area far better than R-tech did. R-Tech have had to dial back the N75 in that area to avoid the customer getting what feels like fuel cuts, but that dip will be felt as a flat spot. Been there and done that, and is why I went back to Revo Stage 1.
As for 'custom' vs 'generic', there's no such thing. Every ED30 has the same 'generic' map in it from the factory. The tuners adjust barely anything. That isn't 'custom' in my book.
Sounds like you are happy with how it drives, so I'd leave it as it is personally and just enjoy it. Believe me, the difference shown in that dyno plot does not equate to an arse handing on the roads.
Post by: Cozza on October 30, 2019, 06:13:29 pm
Just means R Tech piled in more boost. Revo take a more measured approach for reliability and life span, hence the more conservative numbers.
The 3000-3500rpm area is especially temperamental on the K04 engine due to the flow characteristics of the K04-063 turbo. It likes to chillax for a bit and then chuck everything in at once. You can clearly see Revo have dealt with that area far better than R-tech did. R-Tech have had to dial back the N75 in that area to avoid the customer getting what feels like fuel cuts, but that dip will be felt as a flat spot. Been there and done that, and is why I went back to Revo Stage 1.
As for 'custom' vs 'generic', there's no such thing. Every ED30 has the same 'generic' map in it from the factory. The tuners adjust barely anything. That isn't 'custom' in my book.
Sounds like you are happy with how it drives, so I'd leave it as it is personally and just enjoy it. Believe me, the difference shown in that dyno plot does not equate to an arse handing on the roads.
Thanks very much for all that info. I was not aware of a flat spot but looking at the two dyno results I can see exactly what your on about. Going to do exactly that and just enjoy it :happy2:
Post by: ljc19630 on October 30, 2019, 08:15:35 pm
Just means R Tech piled in more boost. Revo take a more measured approach for reliability and life span, hence the more conservative numbers.
The 3000-3500rpm area is especially temperamental on the K04 engine due to the flow characteristics of the K04-063 turbo. It likes to chillax for a bit and then chuck everything in at once. You can clearly see Revo have dealt with that area far better than R-tech did. R-Tech have had to dial back the N75 in that area to avoid the customer getting what feels like fuel cuts, but that dip will be felt as a flat spot. Been there and done that, and is why I went back to Revo Stage 1.
As for 'custom' vs 'generic', there's no such thing. Every ED30 has the same 'generic' map in it from the factory. The tuners adjust barely anything. That isn't 'custom' in my book.
Sounds like you are happy with how it drives, so I'd leave it as it is personally and just enjoy it. Believe me, the difference shown in that dyno plot does not equate to an arse handing on the roads.
Thanks very much for all that info. I was not aware of a flat spot but looking at the two dyno results I can see exactly what your on about. Going to do exactly that and just enjoy it :happy2:
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Post by: pudding on October 31, 2019, 04:31:18 pm
Just means R Tech piled in more boost. Revo take a more measured approach for reliability and life span, hence the more conservative numbers.
The 3000-3500rpm area is especially temperamental on the K04 engine due to the flow characteristics of the K04-063 turbo. It likes to chillax for a bit and then chuck everything in at once. You can clearly see Revo have dealt with that area far better than R-tech did. R-Tech have had to dial back the N75 in that area to avoid the customer getting what feels like fuel cuts, but that dip will be felt as a flat spot. Been there and done that, and is why I went back to Revo Stage 1.
As for 'custom' vs 'generic', there's no such thing. Every ED30 has the same 'generic' map in it from the factory. The tuners adjust barely anything. That isn't 'custom' in my book.
Sounds like you are happy with how it drives, so I'd leave it as it is personally and just enjoy it. Believe me, the difference shown in that dyno plot does not equate to an arse handing on the roads.
Thanks very much for all that info. I was not aware of a flat spot but looking at the two dyno results I can see exactly what your on about. Going to do exactly that and just enjoy it :happy2:
The flat spot is annoying! It's a hardware issue and is one all tuners face with the K04 engine. So long as you keep the boost relatively mild in that area, it's OK.
FWIW, I only saw a peak of 1.7 bar boost from Revo Stage 2+, but with a 2+ live dyno tune it peaked at 2 bar, which is where the bigger numbers come from :happy2:
Post by: colesey on November 01, 2019, 08:09:23 am
Revo 2+ v RTech
https://imgur.com/PXB8d9h
Just what I was looking for. Many thanks. Judging from that graph might be missing out on abit of torque compared to the likes of a R-Tech map. Saying that the revo graph still looks good and as Stig_gti said it’s about how it drives, which I’m happy with. Just nice to have some numbers to back it up with too
I have revo stage 1 on my k03 car and it drives nicely except for upper midrange. Being a K03, we can forget about top end lol. The torque curve feels like it follows a similar pattern to the one shown, with a strong initial boost but then tapers down pretty quickly. Being generic, they need to be conservative on boost and timing advance to cover a variety of temperatures and fuel quality in different countries, as well as engines with differing stages of wear. Inevitably more damage / wear can arise at higher revs and I'm can quite understand how they might choose to play it safe there. I can see how a strong surge of torque feels good but it also can create clutch and traction issues, as well as the K04 surge Pudding rightly mentions.
I'm not surprised to see a custom tuner like R-tec get stronger results as the air temperature here in UK is pretty cool and they are able to optimise the parameters more closely for the individual car on that day. I doubt that Revo (or any of the generic map sellers for that matter) do much ongoing development after the model has been superseded, over 10 years in our case for the Mk5. This is not meant to bash Revo, as they make a good product and have always been helpful with support but is more of an observation on the topic posted.
Post by: pudding on November 01, 2019, 01:37:22 pm
Don't forget with the Revo map it can be 'custom' if you so choose, by way of the Boost, Fuel and Timing settings if you have a standard SPS switch, or via the stalk if you have SPS Pro (PolarFIS copy). It's worth also noting Revo put 1000s of miles of global testing into all of their maps before they are unleashed onto the public.
I'm not trying to come across as a fan boy, just extra info for those not familiar with the company. They haven't always got things right (their R32 and 1.8T maps weren't great) but with the MK5 and newer, they're pretty good. Not the best, not the worst.
If you're local to R-Tech, you can't go wrong and you get switchable maps and improved traction control mapping, which not many other tuners offer.
One thing I will say about Stage 2+ vs Stage 1 is 2+ always felt a bit fragile to me. Far too close to the engine and turbo's limits for comfort, certainly in daily use at least. 2+ can also belch out a shed load of black smoke, which is some of your mpg range being fired straight down the exhaust :grin:
Stage 1 feels like it's unburstable like the factory map.
2 more things to consider with the Revo map, if you ever disconnect the battery, you will need an SPS to put it back into 'performance' mode. The map it loads into memory if you yank the battery is bloody awful. Over rich, slow and unresponsive. And the second thing, if you have an ED30, is the 'stock mode' map is actually an S3 base map. In stock mode on my stage 1, I've pulled enough MAF flow for 280hp, so for me, stock mode vs performance mode feels the same :grin: