MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Ford 2 on May 12, 2020, 05:51:59 pm
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Hi lads. Sorry I lost my logins so I'm on a new account. Anyway I have a quick question. Been from ireland we only have 95 Ron tripe so that's what we have to use. Anyway my car. It's a bwa lump and I have a ram air kit and a miltek downpipe into an unknown cat. I suspect the cat to be a bit of a dud but today I put the car onto the dyno. I'll try upload the graph. Now we only done 1 run so maybe a little more to be made. But I came away at 186bhp and 183ft or torque. I'm not sure what gear he ran but I'll assume it was 4th. Now I suspect the dv might be a bit funny. It's a rev g. And I changed the PCV also but sometimes I do get hesitation under load. I'll try get vcds but that's not terribly easy over here. It's not been for a map yet. Also the car is about 225km on the clock. It does gps verified 0-60 in 6.9 but I'm not the best at launching and mpg seems about normal. I know my whole life story is useless but I'll put the picture up and see if anyone can spot a smoking gun. Thanks
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%26lt%3Bblockquote+class%3D%26quot%3Bimgur-embed-pub%26quot%3B+lang%3D%26quot%3Ben%26quot%3B+data-id%3D%26quot%3Ba%2FfVC1ibA%26quot%3B%26gt%3B%26lt%3Ba+href%3D%26quot%3B%2F%2Fimgur.com%2Fa%2FfVC1ibA%26quot%3B%26gt%3B%26lt%3B%2Fa%26gt%3B%26lt%3B%2Fblockquote%26gt%3B%26lt%3Bscript+async+src%3D%26quot%3B%2F%2Fs.imgur.com%2Fmin%2Fembed.js%26quot%3B+charset%3D%26quot%3Butf-8%26quot%3B%26gt%3B%26lt%3B%2Fscript%26gt%3B&hash=88260442173ff4e61db7a610eef854d2b6a260da)
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.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200512/1ec0936537596915db4e75752153cb8f.jpg)
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I would want to look at the fault/error codes, the fuel pressures for high and low, the mass air g/s, and boost. Lambda as well. For the fuel pressures and boost, I would look at both target and actual. All to simply confirm those are OK. Hesitation felt under full or near full load usually point to fueling pressures lacking, boost, or ignition. So with ignition, there's spark plugs and coils. What have you installed currently for coils and plugs? Genuine VW OEM or OEM replacements? Exactly which plugs are installed currently? Their gap?
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Hi thanks. I'll go through the vcds stuff when I can find someone to do it. As per the coil packs and plugs. Just before I went on the dyno I put on the red ones from awesome. So fresh out of the box. And the below plugs used. Not 100% sure these are great plugs but were recommended to me. No fault codes. The old plugs ran lean. Badly in my eyes and I got lean codes. But once I changed the air box I've not had that so may have been something to do with the old air filter set up. Leak or the likes
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Bosch FR5KPP332S are a heat range 5 plug and a 0.028" gap...the gap is good but the heat range may be an issue. Stock is a 6 heat range and those tuned use 7 and sometimes 8.
Also, are the red top coils genuine Audi R8 coils or aftermarket Red Top coils? If Genuine Audi R8 coils...the plug gap should be smaller say 0.024" to 0.025". If just Red Top aftermarket coils, the plug gap is good but the heat range should be 6 or 7. Many use these; NGK BKR7EIX...I prefer NGK PFR7B.
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Tbh I would have though that a 12+ year old car with 225,000km on the clock that losing just 14 hp isn't all that bad!
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Tbh I would have though that a 12+ year old car with 225,000km on the clock that losing just 14 hp isn't all that bad!
OP...I agree with this. But as you mentioned it stumbles a bit in higher rpms and it is always worth going through to be sure all is tight and optimal. Fuel trim will show signs of wear or air/vacuum leaks and fuel pressures will help see if anything is wearing down in those systems. Best you can do is check all relating to ignition, getting all of that sorted and proper, and find its aged baseline.
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Thanks alot lads.. I'm going to change the plugs tommrow. I've took that cat out, put my decat in and it's going for a map next week. It feels much better but still not 100% hight up. I shall report back. Much appreciated
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I would get an intake clean done, it made a difference to my gti mpg and power were up.
remap next week
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Bosch heat range is the opposite of the NGK. The lower the number = hotter. Grade 5 Bosch is equivalent to NGK grade 7. Stock plug in Europe is a grade 7 NGK double platinum but they run better on NGK Iridium BKR7EIX plugs. Originally they did run on a 5 grade Bosch but VAG switched to NGK due to misfire problems.
95 Ron will likely pull a bit of timing at the top end. VW map the engines on 98 RON and it even says in the manual 95 RON will reduce the performance a bit, i.e. timing pull. They run on the edge of knock all the time, even with stock mapping. Let's not go there with remaps messing with timing.....bad idea.
GTIs made 197hp originally, so 186 on a modest and realistic dyno isn't anything to be worried about but poor running and lumpiness is a concern and should be addressed, which might claw back the missing 10 ponies. They will likely only make that 197hp on 98+RON anyway to be fair.
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Does this look ok pre settle in period ? Lowered last night and it appears to be a tad high in the front ? Excuse the dirt of the car just back from holidays. Back looks fine.. as for above thanks a mill for the help I'll go through the mods I've done later(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200716/3b87a13dd719379cce3054c9487b6f9c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200716/0c39b4f079e003edc8c6383cfe2d21db.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200716/1f6f38fd62d485e8fa8c9fbf40d9ca7d.jpg)
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It does look a tad high but I do expect it would take a longer than 24 hours to settle in. I’d give it a week or 2 and see if it’s still the same.
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Bosch heat range is the opposite of the NGK. The lower the number = hotter. Grade 5 Bosch is equivalent to NGK grade 7.
Thank you for this...I never knew this. I did find a heat range conversion chart and see quite a number of plugs differ in their heat ratings. I see Bosch is the only one with the larger number being the coolest...and the rest are opposite.
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Bosch heat range is the opposite of the NGK. The lower the number = hotter. Grade 5 Bosch is equivalent to NGK grade 7.
Thank you for this...I never knew this. I did find a heat range conversion chart and see quite a number of plugs differ in their heat ratings. I see Bosch is the only one with the larger number being the coolest...and the rest are opposite.
No probs. I've never really liked Bosch plugs. The engines I've used them in have always felt slightly less energetic compared to NGK. Can't really put my finger on it and it's not a night/day difference......but you can feel it none the less. The only Bosch plug I liked was the old Audi RS2 plug, F5DP0R iirc. That was a great plug in all manner of turboed VW engines :happy2:
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Bosch heat range is the opposite of the NGK. The lower the number = hotter. Grade 5 Bosch is equivalent to NGK grade 7.
Thank you for this...I never knew this. I did find a heat range conversion chart and see quite a number of plugs differ in their heat ratings. I see Bosch is the only one with the larger number being the coolest...and the rest are opposite.
No probs. I've never really liked Bosch plugs. The engines I've used them in have always felt slightly less energetic compared to NGK. Can't really put my finger on it and it's not a night/day difference......but you can feel it none the less. The only Bosch plug I liked was the old Audi RS2 plug, F5DP0R iirc. That was a great plug in all manner of turboed VW engines :happy2:
I know what you mean. The plug I like the most for my K04, because it has a feel that differs and never stumbles, is the NGK PFR7B.
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Bosch heat range is the opposite of the NGK. The lower the number = hotter. Grade 5 Bosch is equivalent to NGK grade 7.
Thank you for this...I never knew this. I did find a heat range conversion chart and see quite a number of plugs differ in their heat ratings. I see Bosch is the only one with the larger number being the coolest...and the rest are opposite.
No probs. I've never really liked Bosch plugs. The engines I've used them in have always felt slightly less energetic compared to NGK. Can't really put my finger on it and it's not a night/day difference......but you can feel it none the less. The only Bosch plug I liked was the old Audi RS2 plug, F5DP0R iirc. That was a great plug in all manner of turboed VW engines :happy2:
I know what you mean. The plug I like the most for my K04, because it has a feel that differs and never stumbles, is the NGK PFR7B.
Similarly, the NGK BKR7EIX with red top coils works really well in the UK climate and (very low) elevation :happy2: You guys in the Americas have a much wider range of temperatures and elevations to deal with.
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I tell you what since changing to these plugs and the r8 coils I appear to get random misfires. Seems to happen in 20ish degree temps outside. I may have to look a bit deeper. It clears out and doesn't put on a light etc
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How many miles on it? Is it a hard misfire or just slight lumpiness on idle? The latter is quite common.
Injectors are another common source of misfires, usually starts on cylinder 3 for some reason.
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I have the slight lumpiness I live with that but twice now it has missed and popped/backfired through what felt like the intake under slight load. A good rev and it came right. Funny thing with the reds I find is they don't seem right in the head as if not seated correctly. I may investigate a bit. My car has near 140k I think. I've never done a fuel filter actually or anything to do with injectors etc.
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I can report when you are accelerating it at or near full throttle and it pops off a big backfire while losing all power...it may be fuel delivery. Mine did so when the fuel delivery was just 1.2 bar in the data at full throttle and starving for fuel due to failed LPFP/tank pump. Could also be the same result I suppose if a fuel filter was restricting fuel delivery.
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Mine was the opposite. under tiny load, quick rev and it cleared. It's not constant. Maybe twice in the last 3 months and I'm not sure but may have been low on fuel. Do people replace injectors or refurbished them ? Or are those fuel treatments any good ? Again thanks for the help
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Mine was the opposite. under tiny load, quick rev and it cleared. It's not constant. Maybe twice in the last 3 months and I'm not sure but may have been low on fuel. Do people replace injectors or refurbished them ? Or are those fuel treatments any good ? Again thanks for the help
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I just replaced mine not long ago. I didn't have them cleaned and pressure tested because they had 98k miles on them. If they weren't so old, I would have done that and it would cost $25 each injector for the pressure test and clean.
As far as fuel system treatments go...fuel is a pretty good cleaner in and of itself. Whatever the fuel isn't keeping clean, a bit of solvent diluted by gallons of fuel isn't going to help much in my opinion.
If possible, find VAG-COM and use VCDS to see the pressure data at full load throughout the rev range (2k to redline) for both low and high pressures...with MBs (230 and 231) showing both specified and actual. But if there is slight hesitation at lower revs, and on occasion only, then it could be a number of things such as: "spark plugs are old and worn out, air filter is possibly worn out and clogged with debris so its restricting the airflow. Intake valves are clogging intake air inlet. Oxygen sensor is a possibility. Or it could be a fuel filter/injector clogged/ fuel pump blocking proper fuel flow."
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Injector 3 went on mine at 90ish K. It was only noticeable at idle and very light loads as you described. Under load and/or higher rpms, it was fine. I replaced all 4 injectors because it's a pain in the arse getting the intake manifold off. Didn't want to be going back in there again 10,000 miles later to do the other 3!
If you have a scan tool (VCDS isn the best) look for misfire fault codes.
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Get your valves cleaned.
And injectors flushed/tested.
Well worth it
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Thanks alot lads.. I'm going to change the plugs tommrow. I've took that cat out, put my decat in and it's going for a map next week. It feels much better but still not 100% hight up. I shall report back. Much appreciated
Have you done a pre cat delete? Mine was 219hp with it done standard (not ed 30) That was with 99 ron mind.
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That's a tidy gain for a delete. I deleted mine (ED30) last year and it does seem a bit better up top but I never dynoed it. If it's anything like that much I'd be surprised/happy! It also made the exhaust tone a bit bassier (factory system) which I like.