MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: NB07 on March 12, 2010, 09:30:24 am

Title: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: NB07 on March 12, 2010, 09:30:24 am
does anyone have any opinions on these intercoolers. Ive read reviews but none the wiser on which to go for  :confused:

thanks  :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: vRS Carl on March 12, 2010, 09:35:05 am
Get an S3 intercooler

A lot cheaper and more than up to  the job until you start going Big Turbo.

Forge and THS are very good but a Tad expensive for what they are compared to the S3.

Just my opinion of course

Carl :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: tony_danza on March 12, 2010, 09:46:02 am
The Forge one is a hell of a lot easier to fit. As for what's best, who knows?
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: NB07 on March 12, 2010, 10:02:24 am
thats what i was thinking Tony but i had a quote to fit was 3 hours for the forge!  :surprised:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: vRS Carl on March 12, 2010, 10:07:01 am
Thats good going

It took me about 6 hours to fit the S3 one myself (although i was being overly cautious) i reckon 3 hours is about right

Carl :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: tony_danza on March 12, 2010, 10:08:41 am
Really? that's surprising. Maybe someone who'd done it themselves can tell you how easy/hard it is and how long it'll take.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: gillm on March 12, 2010, 11:03:15 am
forge one would take about a hour defo no more then 2
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: vRS Carl on March 12, 2010, 11:03:55 am
It is straight forwards just time consuming as you have to remove the front bumper and drain the system.

Carl :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Top Cat on March 12, 2010, 12:33:49 pm
The forge one is really east to fit, the hardest part will be getting the bumper back on. From memory you have to move one small part which they give you a bracket for. then its simplez. I think i could do it on my own so basically anyone could do it.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: GTIjames on March 12, 2010, 01:23:43 pm
I went for the forge as I got it for a good price c£450 - didnt fit it myself but it does look quite easy if you have the tools - jack, axle stands etc and a place to do it.

the s3 used to be a good price but lately Vag part prices have shot up and with with the longer fitting time probably another 1hr+ involved you would be a better off with the forge / ths  which gives significant gains over the s3 i/c.

also when you come to sell up you can easily whip the forge off and flog it on - with the s3 / ths its pretty much a fit and forget



Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Poppa Dom on March 12, 2010, 02:00:04 pm
I've got the THS FMIC, it took two of us in a fully equipped workshop (after hours) to do the change in just a tad over 2 hours. really pleased with results and worth it over stock.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: NB07 on March 12, 2010, 02:48:47 pm
thanks for all the input guys  :happy2:

Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: MAT ED30 on March 12, 2010, 03:09:32 pm
the hardest part is the hoses need cutting down to fit  :fighting:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on March 12, 2010, 06:25:53 pm
I went for THS.  They had a special offer back in Feb - 15% off, so it worked out to be £500.

Didn't go for Forge because of the added piping required...plus didn't fancy putting extra weight on the car.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Damian @ DPM on March 16, 2010, 10:52:59 am
Yeah the Forge one is a great buy and outof the box bolt on which is always nice.

Damian @ DPM Performance
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: fuscobal on March 21, 2010, 07:24:39 am
Stage 3 k04 GTI >

- Dyno before Forge twintercooler > 374HP @ 3 degrees ambient temp
- Dyno after Forge twintercooler > 382HP @ 13 degrees ambiebient temp

If I would made the dyno at the same ambient tem I would probably have seen another 5-7HP wich means the Twintercooler added about 12-15HP

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg52.imageshack.us%2Fimg52%2F3686%2Ffuscomotor.jpg&hash=c654dbae6697e99fb0868df194ed6c62f5b7f004)
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Poverty on March 21, 2010, 02:55:29 pm
Stage 3 k04 GTI >

- Dyno before Forge twintercooler > 374HP @ 3 degrees ambient temp
- Dyno after Forge twintercooler > 382HP @ 13 degrees ambiebient temp

If I would made the dyno at the same ambient tem I would probably have seen another 5-7HP wich means the Twintercooler added about 12-15HP

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg52.imageshack.us%2Fimg52%2F3686%2Ffuscomotor.jpg&hash=c654dbae6697e99fb0868df194ed6c62f5b7f004)

Really good results, cant wait to fit my THS now  :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: KRL on April 08, 2010, 09:00:54 am
@ fuscobal > Are you running the forge + stock gti intercooler or forge + s3 intercooler?
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: fuscobal on April 09, 2010, 12:24:53 am
Forge + S3 intercooler !
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: KRL on April 09, 2010, 10:21:16 am
So you made some really impressive gains then with the Forge!  Bad news for me as I think I am going to have to spend some more money again....
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: RedRobin on April 09, 2010, 03:59:01 pm

So you made some really impressive gains then with the Forge!  Bad news for me as I think I am going to have to spend some more money again....


(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FRED_INK%2FYouKnowYouWantTo.jpg&hash=300d7ccce563c38ea613471d64a7c2679e38fcde)

:evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: jonnyc on April 09, 2010, 04:12:52 pm
I have ran both the Forge and THS Cooler..

Forge had lower temps and quicker recovery in my experience.. Im only talking a couple of degrees but it all helps I guess..
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: gillm on April 18, 2010, 10:20:28 pm
what intake temps are you guys seeing from these ? i know the abient temp will differ the temps .
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: micky 32 on April 20, 2010, 11:08:25 am
I have the Forge, it looks cool ( excuse the pun) and easy to fit. Certainly didn't take me 3 hours to fit. Also it's easy to take off if you want to sell on.

 Regarding weight it's quite light, you'd nearly balance it on your little finger :P. The S3 one is heavier than the OEM one anyway so i' doubt there would be much difference in weight overall.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: robern2 on April 20, 2010, 06:16:48 pm
has anyone got some photos of the front of their car with forge fitted ?
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: gillm on April 20, 2010, 07:10:15 pm
any intake temps ? or pressure drop details ?
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: fuscobal on April 20, 2010, 10:54:26 pm
I've got pics but without the front bumper installed. Intake temp would be about 10 degrees less than ambient. Although the Forge doesn't seem do decreAse the temps more than the S3 IC, thr car definately pulls stronger !
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: gillm on April 20, 2010, 10:58:10 pm
10 degrees less then ambient ! thats prrob too low to be honest optimum charge temps are 39 degrees .  any idea on what pressure drop you get across the core ?
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Top Cat on April 20, 2010, 11:00:36 pm
has anyone got some photos of the front of their car with forge fitted ?

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftomashandmilly%2FDetailing_pics%2FIMG_1122.jpg&hash=01a1a3b509edbb7c7adfcc48c4c802daf4fbb1cb)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftomashandmilly%2FDetailing_pics%2FIMG_1690.jpg&hash=fc492ae7860c3c7b990c38bf07df7e1e724cd9e7)
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: fuscobal on April 21, 2010, 05:35:07 am
Ah, sorry, I wanted to say 10 deg more than ambient, not less :)) . No idea about pressure drop but I can't feel any extra lag as compared to just the S3 IC, au contrary, I'm under the impression the car has a little more torque down low !
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: gillm on April 21, 2010, 10:51:35 pm
what is the size of the forge 1 ? length / hight / deep ?
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: RedRobin on April 22, 2010, 08:43:08 am

has anyone got some photos of the front of their car with forge fitted ?


....I think Forge will supply you a black finished Twintercooler, if the look of it is what's going through your mind. That's what I'd do.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: KRL on April 22, 2010, 08:52:17 am
I would like to try and understand if the twintercooler is worth me fitting on my S3 as I already have a decent intercooler is fitting the forge worth it on a K04?

I'm also trying to get my head round whether there would be any increase in pressure drop with the forge which would therefore result in some turbo lag?
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Janner_Sy on April 22, 2010, 04:52:12 pm
id say in normal weather you wouldnt need the forge, however in the summer when above 20o id bet the forge would come into its own.  I nkjw the guys in the states in the hot climates found the S3 cooler wasnt up to the job
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: KRL on April 23, 2010, 09:16:10 pm
any idea on what pressure drop you get across the core ?

I asked Mike@Forge about pressure drop with the Twintercooler and this is what he said:
Quote
There is only 0.7 PSI pressure drop, which is more than made up for by the additional cooling capacity and the now cooler/denser charge pressure.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Janner_Sy on April 23, 2010, 09:32:58 pm
thats a 0.7% pressure drop when compared against stock.  you would also experience a pressure drop with the THS as it has a larger core as well.  and the APR has an even bigger core again.

personally i wouldnt even worry about the extra core. I know a few guys wit forge coolers and have driven them as well, and in no way did they feel laggy at all. 
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: danishmkvgti on April 23, 2010, 09:38:08 pm
thats a 0.7% pressure drop when compared against stock.  you would also experience a pressure drop with the THS as it has a larger core as well.  and the APR has an even bigger core again.

personally i wouldnt even worry about the extra core. I know a few guys wit forge coolers and have driven them as well, and in no way did they feel laggy at all. 

Actually the THS has a larger core than APR eventhough their physical dimension are the same (THS is 1-2mm larger on one side). This being on ground of THS has smaller endtanks  :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Top Cat on April 23, 2010, 09:38:28 pm
I have both the S3 and the forge, and there is a tiny bit of extra lag, but not enough to worry about, it also gives the accelerator a different feel on mine, kinda like you have one ear under water.  :confused: sorry guys its the best way i can describe it.  :ashamed:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Janner_Sy on April 23, 2010, 09:41:08 pm
^^^^^^
your accelerator feels like.........having one ear under water

well that is an explanation to be proud of.  not to sure what it means though :grin: :P
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Top Cat on April 23, 2010, 09:41:39 pm
Neither am I.  :grin:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: RedRobin on April 23, 2010, 09:41:57 pm
Regardless of the weather, my understanding is that an aftermarket intercooler will help run things cooler and hence be a general benefit.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: KRL on April 23, 2010, 09:43:37 pm
it also gives the accelerator a different feel on mine, kinda like you have one ear under water.  :confused: sorry guys its the best way i can describe it.  :ashamed:

 :signLOL:  :congrats:

What have you been smoking?

What on earth does that mean???
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: KRL on April 23, 2010, 09:45:31 pm
I have both the S3 and the forge, and there is a tiny bit of extra lag, but not enough to worry about, it also gives the accelerator a different feel on mine, kinda like you have one ear under water.  :confused: sorry guys its the best way i can describe it.  :ashamed:

Did you manage to get any data logs of IATs with just the S3 cooler and then the S3 cooler + the Forge?  Would be very interesting to see.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: RedRobin on April 23, 2010, 09:49:40 pm
I have both the S3 and the forge, and there is a tiny bit of extra lag, but not enough to worry about, it also gives the accelerator a different feel on mine, kinda like you have one ear under water.  :confused: sorry guys its the best way i can describe it.  :ashamed:

Did you manage to get any data logs of IATs with just the S3 cooler and then the S3 cooler + the Forge?  Would be very interesting to see.


....But would you really trust data logs from a guy who likes to half submerge his head listening to water?
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Top Cat on April 23, 2010, 09:51:11 pm
It changes the sound of the exhaust, if you are lying in the bath with one ear out of the water and tuther under. Ah fook it i am digging a whole here.  :star:

The zorst sounds more raspy and slighty baffled.  :driver:

Have you guys ever been swimming and left some water in your ears, until your ears dry off properly, all sounds are kind of baffled.  :laugh:


I have both the S3 and the forge, and there is a tiny bit of extra lag, but not enough to worry about, it also gives the accelerator a different feel on mine, kinda like you have one ear under water.  :confused: sorry guys its the best way i can describe it.  :ashamed:

Did you manage to get any data logs of IATs with just the S3 cooler and then the S3 cooler + the Forge?  Would be very interesting to see.

No they were both fitted at the same time. definitely got a noticeable power boost.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: RedRobin on April 23, 2010, 09:56:52 pm

The zorst sounds more raspy and slighty baffled.  :driver:

Have you guys ever been swimming and left some water in your ears, until your ears dry off properly, all sounds are kind of baffled.  :laugh:


....Of course not. There must be something strange about the shape of your head, TC.

No-one else farts in the bath either, TC.   :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: KRL on April 23, 2010, 10:20:14 pm
thats a 0.7% pressure drop when compared against stock

No it is a 0.7 PSI pressure drop full stop.  I believe the stock intercooler has about a 1 PSI pressure drop so it suffers less pressure drop than the stock intercooler.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: danishmkvgti on April 23, 2010, 10:22:10 pm
thats a 0.7% pressure drop when compared against stock

No it is a 0.7 PSI pressure drop full stop.  I believe the stock intercooler has about a 1 PSI pressure drop so it it uffers less pressure drop than the stock intercooler.

so adding extra piping and extra IC lowers the pressuredrop????? :confused:   :confused:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: KRL on April 23, 2010, 10:26:46 pm
The way I see it is that the extra piping is minimal - there is barely a foot of it.  Add to that the efficiency of the Forge core and that is probably what gives you less pressure drop.

Remember that the Forge core works in parallel with the OEM intercooler hence why there will be less pressure drop than with just the OEM intercooler.  If the intercoolers were to be put in a series configuration then of course there would be more pressure drop.

The more I think about it the more of a clever design the Forge Twintercooler is.  Or maybe I'm just talking myself into spending more money  :signLOL:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: GTIjames on April 24, 2010, 07:36:00 pm
you will certainly benefit from this even with the s3 cooler, extra cooling and more efficient recovery means a bit more power and for longer  :happy2:





Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: RedRobin on April 24, 2010, 07:57:51 pm

you will certainly benefit from this even with the s3 cooler, extra cooling and more efficient recovery means a bit more power and for longer  :happy2:


....Stoppit, James!! You're encouraging people to spend even more money on their cars.  :wink:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: ∆pex on April 26, 2010, 01:37:36 am
it never ends! :laugh:

i'm trying to decide between these two myself, leaning towards the ths.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: KRL on April 26, 2010, 07:47:59 pm
What is it you prefer about the THS?
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: ∆pex on April 28, 2010, 04:02:45 pm
just prefer how it mounts in the stock location, really. with intercoolers, the stealthier the better for me.
plus it sounds like a quality product based on peoples reviews/opinions, and at a tempting price - it's making me curious how much shipping to oz might be... :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: NB07 on April 28, 2010, 05:10:55 pm
just prefer how it mounts in the stock location, really. with intercoolers, the stealthier the better for me.
plus it sounds like a quality product based on peoples reviews/opinions, and at a tempting price - it's making me curious how much shipping to oz might be... :evilgrin:

if we can sway you towards the Forge there will be some big discounts to be had once its all been confirmed should be happening very soon we have a couple of suppliers willing to offer a big discount for a one off opportunity  :happy2:

take a look here and get your name down!.. http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13311.0.html
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: GTIjames on April 30, 2010, 01:32:00 pm
good review here of a chap who had a s3 cooler on his k04 gti and then upgraded again to the s3 + forge twintercooler

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61193 (http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61193)

Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: RedRobin on April 30, 2010, 04:40:05 pm
^^^^
Excellent link across the pond, James  :happy2: :congrats: :congrats:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on May 02, 2010, 02:00:06 pm
Having gone through this thread...can't see why there is such an emphasis on the Forge IC?

As I understand it the original question was to set out the pros and cons of the Forge and THS IC variants.

Still can't see why someone would want to add extra weight to their car?  Especially when there is a THS alternative which is lighter.  Costs are pretty much the same and so are the labour costs.

Am I missing something?  To cut a long story short...I think we need to be a bit more structured in comparing and contrasting options...rather than rail roading a particular brand or option.

Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: RedRobin on May 02, 2010, 03:18:10 pm
Having gone through this thread...can't see why there is such an emphasis on the Forge IC?

As I understand it the original question was to set out the pros and cons of the Forge and THS IC variants.

Still can't see why someone would want to add extra weight to their car?  Especially when there is a THS alternative which is lighter.  Costs are pretty much the same and so are the labour costs.

Am I missing something?  To cut a long story short...I think we need to be a bit more structured in comparing and contrasting options...rather than rail roading a particular brand or option.


....I understand what you're saying, Mo  :smiley: But I reckon the fact is that there are several combinations to consider and hence discuss when choosing I/C's. But if the point of this thread was to only compare Forge vs THS (as the title), the point should have been made stronger perhaps.

It's not helped by the fact that not many people have chosen THS and posted here.

Didn't SteveP post a very comprehensive THS thread a long while ago? Or was it someone else?
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: NB07 on May 02, 2010, 03:45:05 pm
steve P did a good review and talking to DomT about the THS he is very happy with it too. i  considered all the intercoolers but have swayed toward the forge FMIC for ease of fitment/ removal, looks and performance. i would love to understand the logs and difference between them if they were available im sure theres very little in it so it boils down to choice/ personal preference im sure that the forge would be a very well engineered product with a good customer service so thats what i shall go for. nothing wrong with the TSH at all, just i want the forge  :happy2:
 
plus jonnys post did make me think the forge could have the edge..

I have ran both the Forge and THS Cooler..

Forge had lower temps and quicker recovery in my experience.. Im only talking a couple of degrees but it all helps I guess..
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: djhorace on May 02, 2010, 04:42:59 pm
This is something I had thought to add. The way I see it, no matter which one you go for, there will be compromises. I already have the S3 intercooler, but the car spends a lot of time trying to cool itself after a hard run.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Poverty on May 02, 2010, 05:12:21 pm
Might be worth noting on DSG cars, but there was a fella with a TTS dsg, which on hot days the car would drop into limp mode due to the fact of the twintercooler is a design which involves "stacking up" of coolers, which led to there being less airflow to the trnsmission and it subsequently over heating.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: djhorace on May 02, 2010, 05:52:37 pm
Might be worth noting on DSG cars, but there was a fella with a TTS dsg, which on hot days the car would drop into limp mode due to the fact of the twintercooler is a design which involves "stacking up" of coolers, which led to there being less airflow to the trnsmission and it subsequently over heating.
This is something I am aware of, and one of the things putting me off this solution. By the time the air goes through the Forge, a/c, regular intercooler and in to the radiator, how much cold air actually gets there? On the flip side, you will get a pressure drop when adding a Twintercooler.

The THS and APR cores dont do this, but they are still sat behind the a/c core and in front of the radiator.

As I said, swings and roundabouts, but I know I need more cooling on mine.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Janner_Sy on May 02, 2010, 06:06:42 pm
did you read this link
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61193

from a guy who has had both s3 on its own and S3 with twintercooler.

it does seem that its only people without the twintercooler that go on about this pressure drop and lag, yet everyone who has had one or had logs done of it has said that there was nothing of the sort.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: SteveP on May 02, 2010, 06:25:54 pm
^^^ Agreed, but for me from having run the THS on my ED30 (which I now really wish I hadn't sold as they do fit the Mk6) and really noticing the difference and from seeing the results I wouldn't hesitate is going for one of these again  :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: NB07 on May 02, 2010, 06:47:58 pm
^^^ Agreed, but for me from having run the THS on my ED30 (which I now really wish I hadn't sold as they do fit the Mk6) and really noticing the difference and from seeing the results I wouldn't hesitate is going for one of these again  :happy2:


but you would also consider a twintercooler though for the MK6, wouldnt you steve, especially at that price?!  :innocent:

Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: SteveP on May 02, 2010, 06:49:40 pm
The price is very good  :happy2:, but now I know the THS will fit I would probably go for that one again when it time for an IC  :smiley:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: NB07 on May 02, 2010, 06:54:31 pm
fair enough stick with what you know i guess and the THS is proven to be good.   :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Poppa Dom on May 02, 2010, 07:04:05 pm
Given the choice, definitely the THS for me, am really pleased with the one I have had on for the past 10 months. Makes a difference.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: jonnyc on May 02, 2010, 08:06:26 pm
it does seem that its only people without the twintercooler that go on about this pressure drop and lag, yet everyone who has had one or had logs done of it has said that there was nothing of the sort.

 :grin: :congrats: So so true..
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Janner_Sy on May 02, 2010, 09:01:19 pm
it does seem that its only people without the twintercooler that go on about this pressure drop and lag, yet everyone who has had one or had logs done of it has said that there was nothing of the sort.

 :grin: :congrats: So so true..

btw i dont have one either :wink:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: KRL on May 04, 2010, 09:48:34 am
Might be worth noting on DSG cars, but there was a fella with a TTS dsg, which on hot days the car would drop into limp mode due to the fact of the twintercooler is a design which involves "stacking up" of coolers, which led to there being less airflow to the trnsmission and it subsequently over heating.
This is something I am aware of, and one of the things putting me off this solution. By the time the air goes through the Forge, a/c, regular intercooler and in to the radiator, how much cold air actually gets there? On the flip side, you will get a pressure drop when adding a Twintercooler.

The THS and APR cores dont do this, but they are still sat behind the a/c core and in front of the radiator.

As I said, swings and roundabouts, but I know I need more cooling on mine.

That is not how the Forge IC works...

Remember the Forge works in parallel to you existing cooler.  If it was in a series configuration what you say would be true.  In the parallel config the air gets split off with some going to the existing intercooler and the rest going through the forge.  If anything I would expect the air temps to be cooler with the Forge due to where it is located.  It does not have the AC and the Rad next to it heating things up.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: KRL on May 04, 2010, 09:50:40 am
did you read this link
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61193

from a guy who has had both s3 on its own and S3 with twintercooler.

it does seem that its only people without the twintercooler that go on about this pressure drop and lag, yet everyone who has had one or had logs done of it has said that there was nothing of the sort.

Agree Sy, I think the fundemental thing that people forget with the Forge is that it works in parallel.  If it only has a 0.7 PSI pressure drop accross the core it will have less pressure drop and less lag compared to OEM.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: RedRobin on May 04, 2010, 10:25:03 am

Remember the Forge works in parallel to you existing cooler.  If it was in a series configuration what you say would be true.  In the parallel config the air gets split off with some going to the existing intercooler and the rest going through the forge.


....So, it works in a kinda twin air pipe way. Hmm, hence the name TWINtercooler. Clever, that  :wink:

I wonder what would happen if this clever twin stuff was applied to a high-flow tubular air intake  :wink:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: KRL on May 04, 2010, 10:27:59 am
I wonder what would happen if this clever twin stuff was applied to a high-flow tubular air intake  :wink:

Now that would be a good idea!!  :jumping: :wink:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: jonnyc on May 04, 2010, 01:22:15 pm
Forge have done a fantastic job of not only creating products that cause no end of confusion and controversy but at the same time actually work better than anything else out there on the market! Love it..  :grin:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Forge UK on May 11, 2010, 12:59:51 pm
Just to add a few comments , when we did the original development on the MKV Golf we undertook testing with 3 different types of air core , including bar & plate ,we looged intake temps on the road and tested on the dyno , , please dont thik we just offer on the forst air core we can find, the Twintercoolr is tried and tested  , the pressure drop is next to nothing , most of the misinformation has been caused by other manufactured brands . We have never seen an increase in water temperatures whne fitting the twintercooler , again in the development stages we send a Twinter to one or our Dubai dealers to test in 40 degree heat , this was also undertaken on the race track , the temps didnt increase at all.... please remeber when you buy from Forge you are buying peace  of mind , if you are not happy , you simply send it back for a refund !!
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: bacillus on May 11, 2010, 02:19:49 pm
Me wonders if Keith of APR is going to make an appearance here.  :wink:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: RedRobin on May 11, 2010, 03:58:19 pm
Me wonders if Keith of APR is going to make an appearance here.  :wink:

....Hmm, thread title is "Forge vs THS" not vs APR  :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: NB07 on May 11, 2010, 04:14:37 pm
Me wonders if Keith of APR is going to make an appearance here.  :wink:

....Hmm, thread title is "Forge vs THS" not vs APR  :happy2:

yep, nothing to do with the APR, its not even a consideration of mine. partly due to the fact the APR is a grand and i can not justify spending that on a cooler. im confident the forge will be a great addition to my car, just cant wait to get it on!  :party:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: acespizee on May 11, 2010, 04:15:02 pm
Me wonders if Keith of APR is going to make an appearance here.  :wink:

....Hmm, thread title is "Forge vs THS" not vs APR  :happy2:

I love my Forge, Forge products are brilliant.
Best of all there customer service is the best i have experienced.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: theo on May 11, 2010, 06:13:45 pm
I'm looking forward to receiving mine  :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: RedRobin on May 11, 2010, 06:16:02 pm
....

Hmm, perhaps when I get down my mods list as far as intercooler, I will consider the Forge Twintercooler rather than the S3.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Janner_Sy on May 11, 2010, 06:20:48 pm
Id say not to bother with a forge in your case RR.  think about it, your running the same power as an S3 car anyway, and the S3 cooler is good on the S3s all the way up to stage 2+ power. 

Id just stick with an S3 in your case.   that is unless you are looking into an uprated HPFP in the future then id be thinking about a twintercooler or THS
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: RedRobin on May 11, 2010, 07:18:26 pm
Id say not to bother with a forge in your case RR.  think about it, your running the same power as an S3 car anyway, and the S3 cooler is good on the S3s all the way up to stage 2+ power. 

Id just stick with an S3 in your case.   that is unless you are looking into an uprated HPFP in the future then id be thinking about a twintercooler or THS

....Useful advice, Sy  :drinking:

I'm currently running on a standard oem intercooler. Def not thinking of going Stage2+ as it would make everything work that much harder and I want longevity.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: vRS Carl on May 11, 2010, 08:48:05 pm
I've been stage 2+ for about 15k miles Robin and so far everything has been ok (touches wood)

Carl :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: RedRobin on May 11, 2010, 09:15:49 pm
I've been stage 2+ for about 15k miles Robin and so far everything has been ok (touches wood)

Carl :happy2:

....Oh I don't doubt that Stage2+ (especially Revo) is 'safe', but personally I just don't need any more power, nor to run components harder. It doesn't mean they're guaranteed to break but there is absolutely no doubt that Stage2+ runs things harder according to Keith @ JKM who's real-world knowledge is very substantial.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: acespizee on May 11, 2010, 09:40:14 pm
S3 is good, but Forge+S3 is so much better. Forge will do brilliant deals on there stuff and i believe the S3 cooler was around £250 when i bought it from Audi.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: the bruce on April 14, 2012, 10:57:43 pm
What about the APR compared to the THS?
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Janner_Sy on April 14, 2012, 11:00:57 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fn127%2Fnitroxneil%2FUntitled-1.png&hash=8fb4ffc5ad8e175c328c79e6e9339cd32dc7de45)

^^ This might help.  Thin the APR cooler is bigger than all the above
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: the bruce on April 15, 2012, 12:21:08 am
Thanks !!
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on April 15, 2012, 12:27:53 am
Me wonders if Keith of APR is going to make an appearance here.  :wink:

....Hmm, thread title is "Forge vs THS" not vs APR  :happy2:

I love my Forge, Forge products are brilliant.
Best of all there customer service is the best i have experienced.

I can echoe about fantastic customer service @ Forge, notably from John  :smiley:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: danishmkvgti on April 15, 2012, 06:50:48 am
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fn127%2Fnitroxneil%2FUntitled-1.png&hash=8fb4ffc5ad8e175c328c79e6e9339cd32dc7de45)

^^ This might help.  Thin the APR cooler is bigger than all the above

APR is a little bit smaller than the THS, but the THS has smaller endtanks and a bigger Core than APR  :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: the bruce on April 15, 2012, 01:15:25 pm
Any differences in fitment, Jake?
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: RedRobin on April 15, 2012, 01:21:28 pm
.
When considering aftermarket intercoolers, isn't Pro Alloy also a very strong contender?
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: danishmkvgti on April 15, 2012, 04:09:31 pm
Any differences in fitment, Jake?

None whatsoever Bruce, THS just gives a larger cooler element on the cost of smaller endtanks and perhaps not as good a flow as the APR due to this.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: mdmay on April 15, 2012, 04:48:37 pm
anyone tried the airtec vag intercoolerhttp://www.autospecialists.co.uk/VolksWagon-Category-89.html (http://www.autospecialists.co.uk/VolksWagon-Category-89.html)
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: the bruce on April 15, 2012, 05:27:31 pm
Never seen it before.

Just some general thoughts:

Sadly it seems none of these ICs is available anodized black from factory
(the airtec seems to be painted black as an option).
Heatsinks used on power electronic are anodized black to significiently improve
heat dissipation. This is not for looks only.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: mdmay on April 15, 2012, 08:15:15 pm
i had an airtec on my stage modified ST and this was black from them as standard. I can honestly say it was a great piece of kit and did give large drops in inlet temps (the ford standard intercooler is a piece of crap). so was hoping others had tried on the VAG scene.
 I know that AMD essex advocate these but to be honest that doesn't fully reassure me.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: muckipup on April 18, 2012, 12:52:10 pm

Sadly it seems none of these ICs is available anodized black from factory
(the airtec seems to be painted black as an option).
Heatsinks used on power electronic are anodized black to significiently improve
heat dissipation. This is not for looks only.

My Forge Twintercooler is anodized black. It has been around for a while though.

You make a very good point about black and heat dissipation - most folks think that black is bad because it absorbs the heat (which of course it does but that's if you leave it lying out in the sun  :wink: )
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: RedRobin on April 18, 2012, 01:03:57 pm

My Forge Twintercooler is anodized black. It has been around for a while though.


....Is it showing a lot of stonechip marks?
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: the bruce on April 18, 2012, 06:09:44 pm
You make a very good point about black and heat dissipation - most folks think that black is bad because it absorbs the heat (which of course it does but that's if you leave it lying out in the sun  :wink: )

Yes, most people don't know it. Some even don't believe it if you tell them about it.  :wink:
Title: Re: Re: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: muckipup on April 20, 2012, 09:10:47 am

My Forge Twintercooler is anodized black. It has been around for a while though.


....Is it showing a lot of stonechip marks?

TBH, yes. Also the fine honeycomb  metalwork gets knocked out of shape with stone impact as I guess it would even in non-anodized. Luckily this cosmetic damage doesn't affect it and id still somewhat hidden away behind the bumper.

Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: Re: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: muckipup on April 20, 2012, 09:23:09 am
You make a very good point about black and heat dissipation - most folks think that black is bad because it absorbs the heat (which of course it does but that's if you leave it lying out in the sun  :wink: )

Yes, most people don't know it. Some even don't believe it if you tell them about it.  :wink:

Yep! See paragraphs on 'Surface Effects' and 'Interchange of Energy' particularly the paradox of household radiators being white usually :

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_radiation#section_1 (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_radiation#section_1)

Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: the bruce on April 21, 2012, 04:13:57 pm
THX !!

Interestingly a German born in Kiel did some work on this long ago:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck%27s_law

 :drinking:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on April 21, 2012, 04:44:39 pm

Would after market anodising black increase effieicncy of our coolers (whichever brand) then?

Its easy to assume black is bad for heat dissipation as mentioned
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: the bruce on April 21, 2012, 08:13:47 pm
I guess it would but it won't be as much to remove an already installed IC and let it get anodized.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on April 21, 2012, 08:16:29 pm
I guess it would but it won't be as much to remove an already installed IC and let it get anodized.

I dont quite follow you.
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: the bruce on April 21, 2012, 09:04:50 pm
Pardon me, Mike.  :ashamed:

1. the intake temperature might be slightly reduced
2. from what I believe it won't be worth the labour if you have to remove the IC
3. you might do it if you're going to change the IC anyway
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on April 21, 2012, 09:08:20 pm
Pardon me, Mike.  :ashamed:

1. the intake temperature might be slightly reduced
2. from what I believe it won't be worth the labour if you have to remove the IC
3. you might do it if you're going to change the IC anyway


Thank you

Something I may consider then if the bumper or cooler has to come off in the future  :happy2:
Title: Re: Intercoolers - Forge VS THS ??
Post by: fuscobal on February 05, 2013, 08:42:06 pm
Anyone knows the weight of the twintercooler ? I forgot to weigh mine. S3 is 8kg and the newer Wagner is 10kg !