MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: swansem on November 26, 2021, 06:23:31 pm
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Hi everyone, I need some help, I've been having this issue with my car for a while now and I still can't figure out what's causing it. I've replaced the steering rack, checked all tie rods, wheel bearings, sway bars, end links, done alignments, replaced tyres, replaced strut mounts, front subframe bushings, added the TyrolSport subframe kit, installed whiteline antilift kit (WALK).....the steering still feels loose and unstable at high speeds, I could turn the steering wheel like half an inch and wheels would barely move...it's like the front feels disconnected from the rest of the car....not sure what else to check at this point. I also have H&R UL Coilovers installed and I do have noticed it started happening around the time I installed my coilovers, not sure if that would have anything to do with it or just coincidence, before the coil overs I had my car already dropped on lowering springs but never had this issue. Any ideas?
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Did you get an alignment after installing your coilovers?
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If it feels fine in the corners but loose at dead ahead, it sounds like the toe is off, and maybe a bit of bump steer/tramlining if the car is set too low.
Assuming everything is tight and slop free and the geometry is good, I would look at the UJ shaft on the steering column next. It has 2 UJs on it and if either one of them (or both) has play in it, that can also cause a loose feeling when driving straight.
Also check tyre pressures and tyre condition. When lowered and stiffened up, the car can become more sensitive to tyres.
Try raising the car up to somewhere just below stock ride height and see if things improve. If it does, then you know it's alignment related.
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I have done 4 alignments since I installed them a year ago ( subframe has had to come off multiple times because of clutch swap, sway bar, etc)
On my most recent alignment, which was done this month, I asked for the front toe to be set to 0 degrees just to see if this would make it any better, it didn’t.
Im attaching the printouts of all the alignments I’ve had (last one is the most recent one) :
(https://i.postimg.cc/kM08Fd4Y/5-DAD1-E80-95-C9-4300-A23-F-F6714-FE72087.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F1x7N800)
(https://i.postimg.cc/0jwk2F1b/61-A60-F82-CFA5-4-F89-A51-A-6857-FFD9-ABF1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YLtKdX9H)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Btfq8pJN/64-D1-E218-4-DCA-4-A07-B54-A-16-E9806353-AD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/n9T8gvjQ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/pLtTyWTx/AD493-AA8-DC60-4-E1-E-A1-C8-81-F26-E10-AF83.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zV05c1KP)
I have also tried increasing the tyre pressure to like 42 psi and even though it gets a little better, it doesn’t completely get rid of it, my other problem with having tyre pressure set that high is that the ride becomes horrible, too stiff and bouncy, not ideal for daily driving.
Did try to raise the car a bit too, didn’t make a difference.
The steering column shaft doesn’t have any play in it either, I have checked that too.
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Are you coming to this from a more modern car? Coz older VWs steering used to feel number around centre & needed a fair amount of input compared to more modern cars, with their electric steering & higher ratio racks.
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No, I’ve owned this car for 7 years, this started happening about a year and a half ago, right around the time I swapped wheels/tyres, front sway bar endlinks, upper strut mounts and coil overs(did all this at the same time), it was never like this before that.
I’ve checked all suspension components, everything looks and feels rock solid, there’s no play anywhere, don’t see any cracked bushings.
It’s mostly this numbness at the center of the steering wheel what bothers me, where you could turn about an inch to each side pretty much effortlessly as in before it would feel a lot heavier (especially after installing the WALK), obviously this problem becomes more noticeable the faster I’m going, let’s say if I’m on the highway going straight at 80mph I could turn the steering wheel about an inch back and forth to each side and the car won’t turn at all.
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Did you fit the top mounts in the correct orientation?
You've changed a lot of parts in a short space of time, so it won't be easy pin-pointing which change caused the steering issue. What I would say though is some tyres, especially asymmetric patterned ones, can cause that exact steering issue, and then people end up chasing their tails looking over the suspension.
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Did you fit the top mounts in the correct orientation?
You've changed a lot of parts in a short space of time, so it won't be easy pin-pointing which change caused the steering issue. What I would say though is some tyres, especially asymmetric patterned ones, can cause that exact steering issue, and then people end up chasing their tails looking over the suspension.
Yes, top mounts are fitted correctly, checked that as well.
I did think it was the tyres originally, that’s what I first tackled when trying to pinpoint the issue, I had Michelin PS4s 225/40r18 before, switched to Nitto Neo Gens 215/40r18, then replaced those with Michelin PSS 225/35r18, I changed the tyre size to stretch a bit since I was going to be lower I needed a little stretch to clear the fenders. However, I didn’t notice any difference when going from 215/40 to 225/35 size. I know that before, I had 225/40, which is a thicker sidewall, but I don’t think going down only one size should make that much a difference in the steering, if that was the case then everyone would be talking about that and I’ve done ton of research and haven’t read about people having this issue when stretching down one size only, additionally, there’s another guy locally who has a mkv just like mine and who’s stretching more tyres than I am since his is even lower than mine (think he had 205/40s on), I’ve checked with him and he doesn’t have the steering problem.
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What about the steering curve? https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,132125.0.html
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Subframe bolts loose?
(https://andrewhope.co.uk/automotive/images/misc/subframe-core-parts.JPG)
Some rear subframe bolts are a waisted type and like to work loose.
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What about the steering curve? https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,132125.0.html
I don't think that would be the case for me since this started happening even before I replaced the rack, I usually don't mess around with settings in Vagcom
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Subframe bolts loose?
(https://andrewhope.co.uk/automotive/images/misc/subframe-core-parts.JPG)
Some rear subframe bolts are a waisted type and like to work loose.
Replaced all of those when I dropped the subframe to add a new clutch, and I even added this kit: https://www.tyrolsport.com/suspension/chassis/tyrolsport-deadset-rigid-subframe-collar-kit-for-all-mk5/6-jetta-gli-and-mk2-audi-tt/ that makes it all rigid with zero slop
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One thing I forgot to mention, when I installed the coil overs, I noticed one side was lower than the other (passenger side lower than driver's), to even it out, I had to lower driver's side more (use more threads) not sure if this would affect it in anyway, when I had my lowering springs it was the same, one side was always slightly lower than the other, I just never worried too much about it...
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Are your shocks all the way in properly? I had the same thing on a Citroen Saxo years ago and it was one of my shocks was about 3mm off it’s seat.
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Are your shocks all the way in properly? I had the same thing on a Citroen Saxo years ago and it was one of my shocks was about 3mm off it’s seat.
I'll have to go under and take another look, I did contact H&R before because I saw one of the struts was covered in grease so I thought it might've been blown, after looking at the pics I sent they told me it looked more like residual from when they were assembled not the strut fluid. but aside from the steering problem, they seem to be fine, just really stiff.
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so now I'm pretty sure my coil overs are blown....
(https://i.postimg.cc/jdfcFyy0/7990cc76-2cbb-4a59-9ae2-f935b29764e1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4mJpK78B)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BnGp9tC8/b01a35d6-fe06-40ce-87d2-156d32a3be03.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1fJwDm2P)
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Borked dampers can certainly cause numb steering and sh1te handling. Wasn't going to go down that avenue as I assumed they were new. Are they H&R comforts? Can't see the pics as I'm at work.
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Borked dampers can certainly cause numb steering and sh1te handling. Wasn't going to go down that avenue as I assumed they were new. Are they H&R comforts? Can't see the pics as I'm at work.
they're H&R Ultra Lows, I've had them on for 1 year, I reached out to them with the pics and this is what they replied: "This grease is nothing to worry about, residual is somewhat common. I would get some brake parts cleaner and rinse it out and wipe it clean. Drive for a while and keep an eye on it. Let me know if things worsen, we can look into it further."
I did tell them the grease seems to be coming out of the seals, but they’re saying it’s normal 😐 🤷🏽♂️
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If your seals were blown it would be oil - but that is dependant on there still being oil in there.
Bounce test on the suspect corner should reveal if it is still damping.
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If your seals were blown it would be oil - but that is dependant on there still being oil in there.
Bounce test on the suspect corner should reveal if it is still damping.
I could be wrong but I've heard that test is only good when the shocks/struts are totally shot....if it's a gradual deterioration, like feeling the performance of the shocks going down, it doesn't really tell you much, especially on monotube struts, the shocks/struts could be leaking fluid/gas and not bounce at all.
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The bounce test was from the 1980s when cars had yoghurt for suspension. On cars with coilovers, you can barely move it due to the spring rates, especially at the front.
Seems strange for grease to still be hanging around on the struts after a year, but if that's what H&R reckon, fair enough!
Again, with uprated suspension, you can't really tell if the dampers are shot unless they are relieved from the car and pushed down by hand. If they don't spring back up, they're pooped.
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Hey guys, I know it’s been a while but recently I decided to swap my coilovers, after taking the old ones out I took some new photos, both front struts were covered in oil, under the dust boots and around the seals close to the threads there was oil/fluid. I have spoken to H&R and they say that’s normal for there to be some residual and if they were actually leaking oil they would be doing so through a weep hole at the very bottom of the unit since these are inverted monotube struts. Has anyone here who’s had these type of coils before seen anything like this?
(https://i.postimg.cc/YqmYVS0S/58-D076-AD-9-F3-B-42-D4-A3-A1-9643-A8-C594-AE.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zV8yH8nm)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mrT9tNwc/67-D6203-D-EAFA-4172-852-F-9-E22992-D92-AC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/681qPZFw)
(https://i.postimg.cc/V66bFf2m/CFA5-E135-D7-FF-4-E6-E-9-EE8-DF499102-BCAA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3ysR8TKc)
(https://i.postimg.cc/vZr9YSWF/D28-BC964-240-D-44-CC-A92-F-077432-EAA3-DC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SnKjVdTD)
(https://i.postimg.cc/6pJnNN4f/DDCCD17-A-0933-4-E1-E-924-E-79839-D2-FD4-CC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PPyPm94C)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MGtQRMP9/ED3-E48-A5-38-E1-40-A7-A642-7-E5-A76-CD5-D47.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xkJ8VCSm)
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I'll look at the pics later but I had H&R comforts on my Corrado many moons ago, and they blew after only 2 years' use. I knew something wasn't right as the ride became very crashy, torque steer got worse, steering twitch got worse, tramlining got worse etc etc. Just nasty and vague to drive in general. Sure enough, once removed for inspection, they were wet with oil.
I don't know if they still are, but H&Rs monotubes were actually Bilstein B14s with their own springs.
I hate to say it, but monotubes aren't the longest lasting of dampers, but in any case..... there should never be oil leaking from a damper, not from any part of it. Weep hole at the bottom? WTF??? It's not a water pump with a bearing failure relief hole. Oil is the guts of a damper. It's definitely not normal to leak it away!
Anyway, if I confirm your pictures are the same as mine were later on, they've definitely blown. It sounds like they're fobbing you off.
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I'll look at the pics later but I had H&R comforts on my Corrado many moons ago, and they blew after only 2 years' use. I knew something wasn't right as the ride became very crashy, torque steer got worse, steering twitch got worse, tramlining got worse etc etc. Just nasty and vague to drive in general. Sure enough, once removed for inspection, they were wet with oil.
I don't know if they still are, but H&Rs monotubes were actually Bilstein B14s with their own springs.
I hate to say it, but monotubes aren't the longest lasting of dampers, but in any case..... there should never be oil leaking from a damper, not from any part of it. Weep hole at the bottom? WTF??? It's not a water pump with a bearing failure relief hole. Oil is the guts of a damper. It's definitely not normal to leak it away!
Anyway, if I confirm your pictures are the same as mine were later on, they've definitely blown. It sounds like they're fobbing you off.
yeah I've found it odd too, supposedly...this is where they would be leaking from if they were defective according to H&R:
(https://i.postimg.cc/qR71htjy/HR-springs-shock-anatomy-17.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
since the anatomy of the strut is inverted to that of a standard monotube, the shock absorber is placed downward, hence the pressure is generated towards the bottom.
And yes, these are Bilstein. Maybe I should contact them instead...see what they say???
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Yeah Bilstein would know for sure, but sounds strange. I've used in the past.....H&Rs, B16s, Ohlins DFV and not seen a special blow off hole on any of them!
That explanation just doesn't sit right with me as it implies the damper is designed to fail, and indeed expected to.....in some sudden and catastrophic way. Very odd.
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Just seen the pics and yep, that is exactly what my H&Rs looked like when they went. As they were out of warranty, I got the middle finger from H&R.
I just don't think European suspension kits can handle our crappy roads. 2 years (50K miles) out of H&Rs, same for B16s, and 2.5 years (30K miles) from the Ohlins. The Ohlins did at least retain their oil and gas, but the nylon sleeves went, causing the chrome plating to chip off the damper rods :doh:
My old KW V3s, whilst not monotubes lasted well now I remember.
I might get a UK brand to come up with something more suited to our roads, such as Leda, GAZ or Nitron.