MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: imprezzaworks on July 06, 2022, 07:03:33 pm
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Looking at replacing these as unsure when they were last done. Standard car.
Cheers chaps.
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No idea why it will only copy like this....courtesy of @ROH ECHT (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3794) Offline ROH ECHT
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Re: Dyno Day Disappointment
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2022, 02:46:21 am »
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NGK BKR7EIX are a 5k Ohm restricted plug. You really should consider going back to the 1k Ohm plug (NGK 1675 PFR7S8EG) w/gaps at 0.8 mm, and allow more voltage to pass through the plug when stock as yours is. At stock there's no need to restrict the power for the arc it can generate. Because your combustion situation is not likely to disturb its arc.
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Huh?
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So I would hazard a guess that @ROH ECHT (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3794) knows his stuff from what I have seen on here!...for a standard car as per yours he recommended the NGK 1675PFR7S8EG plugs....that was what I was after
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Thanks mate
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You are very welcome! I take no credit at all though...
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Yeah the PFR7S8EG is the OEM plug.
They are the same price as the standard issue BKR7EIX so take your pick. I didn't notice any difference between the two :smiley:
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Will grab the ngk ones :)
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The difference is; BKR7EIX is 'Iridium' and a 5k Ohm plug.
The PFR7S8EG is; 'Platinum' and a 1k Ohm plug.
NGK says; their Platinum lasts 90k miles and the Iridium lasts 50k miles.
A 1k Ohm plug will restrict less voltage coming from the OE coils.
With the 5k ohm plugs; you may need to reduce the gap from 0.8mm, so the arc can span the gap of the electrodes. Probably not until tuned though.
The point is to run a plug and coil pairing to produce an arc to span the greatest gap without being disturbed by all that boost, fuel and heat and stuff. :happy2:
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The tips on the BKR7EIX are smaller at 0.6mm compared to 1.0mm on the other also.......to compensate for the higher resistance I guess.
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Iridium is more conductive than platinum, but resistance differences make little to no difference at the plug tip at the end of the day. The resistor is only there to stop electrical interference messing with the DBW throttle tracking. 1 or 5Kohms makes little to no difference in terms of spark strength as that is governed by the dwell time of the coilpack, which the ECU varies according to load and battery voltage anyway.
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Been using PFR7S8EG since I got the car, hoping some BKR7EIX on a stage1 will work fine.
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Standard plugs are fine on Stage 1 - 2+. There seems to be a misunderstanding that the BKR7EIX is an upgrade. It's exactly the same spec as standard, just a different electrode material.
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Yes get that impression a lot. Looking on the NGK site there also appears to be another Iridium plug offered: IFR7X8G that has a similar spec to the BKR7EIX
https://www.ngkpartfinder.co.uk/catalogues/cars/search/spark-plugs/VOLKSWAGEN/GOLF/2005/14571/
(https://i.postimg.cc/FHZXHnXK/2022-07-08-13-11-40.png) (https://postimages.org/)
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Interesting, haven't seen that one before. NGK consider it an upgrade (over the PFR7S8EG)......probably because it's Iridium. Not cheap at £16 each though :grin:
It has a platinum pad on the ground strap, which makes it an upgrade over the BKR7EIX :happy2: The BKR7EIX just has a plain ground strap, so won't last as long as the IFR7X8G.
To be honest, there's no way I would leave a plug in for 50K+ miles anyway. I normally do them every 20K miles just to keep the spark as healthy as it can be.
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Every two years for me and I barely do 4k miles a year these days
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New plugs fitted earlier :)
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I find it difficult to understand how more resistance makes little to no difference.
When NGK makes statements like: "Lower resistance means more of the ignition coils energy is going towards bridging the gap of the spark plug....resistor type plugs actually resist some of the spark energy, non-resistor type plugs actually deliver a more powerful spark."
Anyway, I put in a call to NGK and left a message because I phoned 5 minutes after closing. When they return the call I will ask more on this and will report what 'they learn me.' I've spoken with one from NGK before, for about an hour one day, and so I have been saying what I say based on that conversation. It's what I do, having nothing else really to do, LOL :happy2:
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It doesn't though, not in my car at least. Don't take this the wrong way, but American car enthusiasts seem to be obsessed with spark plugs and gaps :grin:
In Europe, we just take them out of the packet and throw them in!
If we're talking massive hybrid turbos running crazy rich mixtures, then fair enough, but these are just stock engines with stock parts. No special plugs or gapping is required.
IFR7X8G lists as an OEM plug on NGKs site, and = 5K Ohms.
BK7REIX = 5k ohms.
PFR7S8EG also OEM and lists as = 1K ohms.
If the plug manufacturer lists different plugs and resistances for the same engine, it surely doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things? :smiley:
As I said previously, I suspect the difference is down to conductivity properties. Platinum is less conductive than Iridium, so that's why they probably lowered the resistance. It doesn't mean it makes a massive spark compared to a 5k ohm plug though.
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Just got off the phone with NGK Performance Tech support.
They pretty much said all the same stuff as before.
They said the difference between 1k Ohm and 5k Ohm plugs is not likely to be noticed when paired with the OE stock C.O.P. coils. And; one plug will not likely out-benefit the other.
They said with their VW/Audi plugs...they just offer more heat ranges in their 5k Ohm plugs.
They also said do what a tuner suggests because they have their reasons, based on what they have or have not messed with in the tuning. Plus what hardware they require or is installed. Reducing the gap of the plug would likely need to take place regardless if it's a 1k or 5k plug, once tuned. But this is done if necessary, when or if you upgrade the C.O.P. coils to a higher voltage coil. Then is when you probably would want to always go with the 5k Ohm plugs. I think this is all we discussed.
Thank you Pudding for all of the input and feedback...nothing was ever taken the wrong way. This was all resulting from my own personal curiosity in the past and what I found out after making contact and having conversations with NGK. And yes...just put them (whichever they may be) in and we can deal with any problems later, should any arise. :happy2:
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Yeah that pretty much mirrors my own findings, with the GTI at least. I think it's just one of those engines that doesn't really care about spark plugs!
In my old VR6 Turbo project car, I used NGK R5671a-7 and that was the only time I could feel an improvement almost immediately. https://www.ngk.com/ngk-4091-r5671a-7-racing-plug
Probably can't use those in TFSIs as they have no resistor, so the coils might burn out, and/or cause too much ECU/DBW interference. They're good plugs though :smiley:
I have heard of people using NGK Racing plugs in TFSIs with no ill effects though, so I might give it a try. I've got a spare ECU and throttle should the worst happen :grin:
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This morning I woke up remembering the most important portion of the NGK discussion which was the summary:
In conclusion they said (and confirmed by Pudding); there may not ever be any difference noticed between the 1k or 5k Ohm plugs when stock tuned.
But when it is tuned, and this depends on amount of increased boost and heat levels, they said this:
1) with "OE stock coils" you 'MAY' (I assumed meant; or may not) need to reduce the gap of a 5k Ohm plug before you would a 1k Ohm plug.
2) with upgraded "higher-voltage coils" you 'MAY' (I assumed meant; or may not) need to go one plug cooler with the 1k Ohm plug before you would a 5k Ohm plug.
Then I realized (I know, American spelling) NGK never mentioned something in all of the discussions, which slipped my mind, and I neglected to catch it until now. Which is; I was confusing flow/current being resisted, with voltage being resisted. But more resistance means more voltage and less current, and it is voltage needed to span the gap. Right?