MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Fallout-NL on September 26, 2022, 01:05:57 pm
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Anyone have strong feelings on this subject? My factory engine cover / intake is looking a bit ratty and I'm considering just replacing it with a cold air intake. However, 9 times out of 10, that's exactly the kind of 'upgrade' that ends up negatively impacting performance. Still, it's tempting. They look a lot better, that's for sure. You guys have experience with any particular types/brands? Maybe even some dyno numbers that confirm an actual increase in performance?
Some updates on my car:
- I had that rattling sound last year. First we suspected the clutch/flywheel assembly. That was swapped out for new parts (the old assembly was busted, but it was not the cause of the sound)
- The cause was actually the cam timing chain and tensioner. Car sounds great again, no awful rattling noises
- Friend of mine also bought a GTI, his is a bit nicer looking and it was faster as well. Which led to me wondering about my car since his wasn't tuned.
- The issue turned out to a faulty DV that was holding no pressure at all.
- I now have a type D revision, which is an improvement, but I still suspect it's not holding as good as it should.
- Bought the GFB version. Will install that this Friday. Hope that's even more of an improvement. Otherwise I need to start looking elsewhere for leaks I suppose.
- If I can't find it myself, I plan to take the car to a (fairly reputable) tuning company here. See if they can figure out what the issue is or, alternatively, if it's actually making its stock 200 hp. Will probably combine this with intake cleaning / walnut blasting.
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I hear mixed things on the GFB so I just stick to rev G DV personally. DV is the common low power symptom but a dead pcv could cause issues also.
If you have or plan to get vcds or the budget option obd eleven you can run some logs, lots of tutorials out there on how to do this and what to look for, worst case the friendly people on here will help you read your logs if you need a hand. Sometimes it is easier to just get a vag tuner to take a look mind and educate you if you're really unsure.
In terms of intakes... I think ram air is the cheapest and see lots of high power gti's with this setup. I run the creation motorsport one purely because they were happy to state real power increase numbers when purchasing so more of a guarantee for still being under £250, after a inlet and injector cleaning with a pre-cat delete, miltek cat back and Creation intake mine made 218bhp before mapping so I'm pretty sure a decent portion of that was down to the intake.
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Thanks, that's solid info.
(Forgot to mention that I replaced the PCV with a new OEM unit as well.)
I'll report back once the GFB is on. See how I feel about it compared to the rev D.
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perform a simple smoke test for leaks
always choose an OEM proper revision DV over any aftermarket one (inc GFB)
use VCDS , scan for fault codes + live log boost values to see if it all looks within normal ranges (your friends gti may have been mapped without him knowing, as opposed to yours being donw on power)
unless you really want the noise or chasing power numbers for peak hp on a dyno or so you can remove the engine cover, my experience was always stick with the original airbox.
yes its restrictive, yes it will reduce your peak hp numbers but you get that back in terms of driveability and smooth running. (if you really want an intake ask RTec what they recommend). At least for stage 1 i was always tempted but never changed, and over the years I saw many people try intakes then go back to a stock airbox for some silence / to get rid of flat spots / stop breaking brackets, and wanting to get rid of the gap in low down torque that seems to always come from a different non oe setup
all imo of course
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I gave up on the oem DV after having a couple of diaphragms split. I didn't hear great things about the GFB DV+ so I bought a Turbosmart DV and it's been perfect so far. You can buy a service kit for a few quid so I'll probably service it the same time as the oil and filter. As for the intake I went Revo as R-Tech recommended it as the best, I'm only stage 1 at the moment but will end up at 2+ eventually and ebay sent me a 20% off code that I used to bring it down to little more than a used one. My bum dyno says I've lost a smidge of low end power but certainly haven't lost any top end power.
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Our chain tensioner failed the first two weeks we had the car, I was blinded by the fact that the belt had just been done! Thankfully it turned out fine as we were still under the dealers warranty and I turned the engine off as soon as I pulled over. Make sure you replace that camfollower too although I'm sure you've done that already, another killer to these cars.
We are stage 1 with cobra sports cat and oversized ramair induction kit. As for the induction kit, I felt like it definitely had some improvement at the higher end and I never noticed a difference in the lower end. It's quite loud but I got used to the sound and now it's a lot easier to fix anything in the way of the engine cover. I would definitely recommend it for the price, plus you don't need any replacement filters as you can wash them.
As for the potential loss of power I'd stick to Rev G, it's held up well so far (approx 9 months) with the additional power. With an air leak usually you'll have a rough idle and a log if it's bad enough although I know some just don't show up until it starts affecting other things. Get the Rev G if you don't have a rough idle and go from there.
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I have a ram Air kit (the smaller one) and personall I feel no difference. Some people swear it takes away and others say its adds power. But if it does either I cannot notice it.
Also be prepared if you do get an intake, especially the ram Air, it is crazy loud... Almost too loud. I have gotten used to it and enjoy it but I know alot of people on here hate the noise.
There is also the issue alot of people talk about with MAF scaling and most of the cold air intakes don't have the MAF sensor in the exact same position as the stock intake. The stock intake is (I am reliably informed) is good for tons of power so if you are just after power then the stock one is fine.
If you are after a nicer looking engine bay and some obnoxious Phsssss sounds then cold air intake is the one.
I found the ram Air kit to be pretty easy to install and looks decently nice, although not a fan of the oversized kit with a millions of jubilee clamps.
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Thanks for all the replies guys.
I found the ram Air kit to be pretty easy to install and looks decently nice, although not a fan of the oversized kit with a millions of jubilee clamps.
Yeah, you're right damnit. I did end up ordering the bigger one yesterday, mostly because it seemed like that version did have something of a heatshield for the upper part of the tubing. Luckily it's not too expensive, if the sound is too much, I'll just flog it on Marktplaats (Ebay for Dutchies).
perform a simple smoke test for leaks
always choose an OEM proper revision DV over any aftermarket one (inc GFB)
use VCDS , scan for fault codes + live log boost values to see if it all looks within normal ranges (your friends gti may have been mapped without him knowing, as opposed to yours being donw on power)
Smoke test is scheduled for Friday. As for my friend's GTI being mapped, yeah, I did think that most likely at first. Still, my new DV did make an improvement. However, it may still be that the difference I'm feeling is due to his being mapped.
I should probably have it tested on a dyno somewhere to be sure. Too much guesswork for an amateur like me. It's fun though, what a great car, regardless of a few niggles here and there.
Our chain tensioner failed the first two weeks we had the car, I was blinded by the fact that the belt had just been done! Thankfully it turned out fine as we were still under the dealers warranty and I turned the engine off as soon as I pulled over. Make sure you replace that camfollower too although I'm sure you've done that already, another killer to these cars.
Yep, cam follower is replaced. However, the first time my mechanic had a look (on my request), it had a hole in it. Camshaft is probably already damaged (hopefully not too badly?). We've now added the cam follower as an annual service item so to speak (since they're probably gonna go a bit quicker on my car).
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Did they ever check over the cam lobes? If the cam lobes seem undamaged then you probably got away with it. Did they find many flakes when they checked the oil filter and sump? They can also wear your HPFP and then lead to fueling issues. I'm pretty sure a lot of these cars have suffered from faulty cam followers and they are still running. As far as I'm aware the more modified your car is the more often you need to check the cam follower, so I do a regular check at about 5k and will replace them much sooner than recommended to avoid any issues for not much cost.
As for the oversized ram air kit, it is loud. I think there's a way to make it a little more quiet, maybe someone can chime in? Although I quite like it, it makes the car sound quite aggressive and sometimes it flutters.
Stage 1 against stock is a huge difference, actually quite shocking when we had it done. Problem with yours is you may not know what it's supposed to feel like if you still have a leak. Definitely try to get to the bottom of it before you get it dyno'd
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https://youtu.be/n7-cIiumgmE (https://youtu.be/n7-cIiumgmE)
Have a look at this. I think generally you gain top end but may lose mid range. Be sure that you like the noise (I do).
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I would focus on getting it running right before doing modifications. Keep troubleshooting variables out of the picture for now.
I found the ram Air kit to be pretty easy to install and looks decently nice, although not a fan of the oversized kit with a millions of jubilee clamps.
Yeah that kit looks like people have assembled it themselves using random bits of silicon off the internet :grin: It looks terrible!
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Did they ever check over the cam lobes? If the cam lobes seem undamaged then you probably got away with it. Did they find many flakes when they checked the oil filter and sump? They can also wear your HPFP and then lead to fueling issues. I'm pretty sure a lot of these cars have suffered from faulty cam followers and they are still running. As far as I'm aware the more modified your car is the more often you need to check the cam follower, so I do a regular check at about 5k and will replace them much sooner than recommended to avoid any issues for not much cost.
As for the oversized ram air kit, it is loud. I think there's a way to make it a little more quiet, maybe someone can chime in? Although I quite like it, it makes the car sound quite aggressive and sometimes it flutters.
Stage 1 against stock is a huge difference, actually quite shocking when we had it done. Problem with yours is you may not know what it's supposed to feel like if you still have a leak. Definitely try to get to the bottom of it before you get it dyno'd
They did check the lobe, yeah. No major damage and he corrected it as much as he was able. His recommendation was to just check the follower every year. Replacement of the entire camshaft assembly was a waste of money in his view.
The fact that it's now a weak point on my car gives me pause with regards to tuning. Like you said, more power probably doesn't do that weak link any favors.
Yeah that kit looks like people have assembled it themselves using random bits of silicon off the internet :grin: It looks terrible!
Lol, hasn't even arrived yet and already regretting it.
https://youtu.be/n7-cIiumgmE (https://youtu.be/n7-cIiumgmE)
Have a look at this. I think generally you gain top end but may lose mid range. Be sure that you like the noise (I do).
On the upside, it actually does something without a map even... That's not bad at all.
As for the noise, yeah I could do with some.
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Yeah that kit looks like people have assembled it themselves using random bits of silicon off the internet :grin: It looks terrible!
Lol, hasn't even arrived yet and already regretting it.
It does the job but won't win any beauty contests :grin: I think the RamAir is actually one of the better ones for MAF accuracy :happy2:
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It does the job but won't win any beauty contests :grin: I think the RamAir is actually one of the better ones for MAF accuracy :happy2:
Haha, thanks Pudding
I've decided to send the GFB back by the way. Going with the rev G instead.
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It does the job but won't win any beauty contests :grin: I think the RamAir is actually one of the better ones for MAF accuracy :happy2:
Haha, thanks Pudding
I've decided to send the GFB back by the way. Going with the rev G instead.
Yeah I didn't think much of the GFB DV+ to be honest. I had two of them. The first one decided to let go of it's orange rubber pad, and they both bound up, evidenced by scoring marks on the brass piston. So yeah, I reverted back to the Rev G also!
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Did they ever check over the cam lobes? If the cam lobes seem undamaged then you probably got away with it. Did they find many flakes when they checked the oil filter and sump? They can also wear your HPFP and then lead to fueling issues. I'm pretty sure a lot of these cars have suffered from faulty cam followers and they are still running. As far as I'm aware the more modified your car is the more often you need to check the cam follower, so I do a regular check at about 5k and will replace them much sooner than recommended to avoid any issues for not much cost.
As for the oversized ram air kit, it is loud. I think there's a way to make it a little more quiet, maybe someone can chime in? Although I quite like it, it makes the car sound quite aggressive and sometimes it flutters.
Stage 1 against stock is a huge difference, actually quite shocking when we had it done. Problem with yours is you may not know what it's supposed to feel like if you still have a leak. Definitely try to get to the bottom of it before you get it dyno'd
They did check the lobe, yeah. No major damage and he corrected it as much as he was able. His recommendation was to just check the follower every year. Replacement of the entire camshaft assembly was a waste of money in his view.
The fact that it's now a weak point on my car gives me pause with regards to tuning. Like you said, more power probably doesn't do that weak link any favors.
It may not be a real weak point. Wear in the cam lobe reduces the maximum amount of fuel that the car can supply to the engine, but if the engine does not need more fuel than is being provided, it doesn't matter. Just look for the symptoms of fuel cuts which in the worst case will log a fault. If it does become a problem you can fit an uprated HPFP and just make sure you are checking your follower frequently (annually is probably fine). If it is a K03 car it isn't ever going to demand massive fuel, just need to watch around 3,000 RPM when the cams might not be spinning fast enough for the standard HPFP to keep up. Either way, fitting an uprated HPFP makes much more financial sense than paying a specialist to swap cams.
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Bit late to the party but I’d recommend the Revo intake. Looks good, we’ll made and bum dyno suggests top end power gains. Did drop a bit of low range oomph but a CTS turbo outlet pipe seems to have sorted that (again bum dyno).
Only problem with Revo kit is lack of mounting brackets so you might want to make your own if you go down that route: https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,132314.msg1152723.html#msg1152723
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Did they ever check over the cam lobes? If the cam lobes seem undamaged then you probably got away with it. Did they find many flakes when they checked the oil filter and sump? They can also wear your HPFP and then lead to fueling issues. I'm pretty sure a lot of these cars have suffered from faulty cam followers and they are still running. As far as I'm aware the more modified your car is the more often you need to check the cam follower, so I do a regular check at about 5k and will replace them much sooner than recommended to avoid any issues for not much cost.
As for the oversized ram air kit, it is loud. I think there's a way to make it a little more quiet, maybe someone can chime in? Although I quite like it, it makes the car sound quite aggressive and sometimes it flutters.
Stage 1 against stock is a huge difference, actually quite shocking when we had it done. Problem with yours is you may not know what it's supposed to feel like if you still have a leak. Definitely try to get to the bottom of it before you get it dyno'd
They did check the lobe, yeah. No major damage and he corrected it as much as he was able. His recommendation was to just check the follower every year. Replacement of the entire camshaft assembly was a waste of money in his view.
The fact that it's now a weak point on my car gives me pause with regards to tuning. Like you said, more power probably doesn't do that weak link any favors.
It may not be a real weak point. Wear in the cam lobe reduces the maximum amount of fuel that the car can supply to the engine, but if the engine does not need more fuel than is being provided, it doesn't matter. Just look for the symptoms of fuel cuts which in the worst case will log a fault. If it does become a problem you can fit an uprated HPFP and just make sure you are checking your follower frequently (annually is probably fine). If it is a K03 car it isn't ever going to demand massive fuel, just need to watch around 3,000 RPM when the cams might not be spinning fast enough for the standard HPFP to keep up. Either way, fitting an uprated HPFP makes much more financial sense than paying a specialist to swap cams.
I don't think you should be limited by previous faults as breeze said, if you don't have any issues you should be fine! If it makes you feel any better I've had stage 1 for over 10k miles now, with tons of previous faults from before that could somewhat damage things. Original clutch at 140k still. These cars are strong if maintained well, it's just the little nibbles to the bank account. :laugh:
And yes I know the raimair doesn't win any beauty contests and there are better ones out there but for the price and easy installation I couldn't really find a more suitable one. As pudding said make sure you get to the bottom of your issues before you start modifying anything. It's a lovely car and for the price it's difficult to go to any other car now :grin: