MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: OllieVRS on March 02, 2023, 12:56:47 pm
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EDIT 23/05/2023: The low oil pressure light I got in this post was likely just from hard cornering with a below average oil level while on track. By pure coincidence I later discover there is actually something mechanical causing insufficient oil pressure, but only at idle RPMs.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xC1k1jyQ/PXL-20230225-174717730.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/94sXxhng)
^new suspension setup, H&R 45-50mm Ultra Lows on OEM shocks, wheels are 18" Bola B1s
Planning on doing my first track day ever in the Octy.
It's only a half day on the track so two and a half hours, and I'm not planning on pushing her too hard as I've no experience of driving on a track other than go karting.
I'll change the oil before hand, is it necessary to change it after too? The Millers CFS 5W40 NT+ is €81 for 5L so don't want to throw that money down the drain :sick:
Current setup, appreciate any and all feedback on this :smiley::
Brakes are all pretty much factory and had all pads and discs replaced 10k kilometers ago. They're still squeaky as a barstewards though, and of the rear calipers leave more brake dust that the other 3, but isn't seized or anything like that. Also brake fluid was inspected by the garage then and deemed to be fine.
Suspension is now on lowering springs and OEM shocks with new top mounts, and all the bushings are in decent condition. I'll get an alignment before the track day too.
Tyres are Eagle F1 Asym 6s, and only have a few thousand kms on them.
Engine's got a RamAir standard size CAI and is running a 95RON-tuned remap, and oil pump still has an active balance shaft. Rev G DV.
As for octane booster, on UK track days you guys are obviously running 99, but are you running any octane booster on top of that?
Cheers!
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Don't overthink it, no need to change oil afterwards. Recently serviced with decent tyres and new brakes is a good start :smiley: Maybe take it easy as it's your first time and come in after a few laps to let the brakes and tyres cool down. If anything fails, just upgrade it for next time!
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Not familiar with the circuits in IE but do some research of general flow and lines before hand if possible via YouTube and preferably from experienced drivers during races etc.
Your oil is good mate, that's what I use too. I change it every 2 FULL track days which some would consider very often so you're good.
Remember no road without extensive modification is well suited to the track so you'll notice some weaknesses:
- The good year tyres will roll over the sidewall a little due to the sidewall being soft for road use and the stock camber being low with soft rubber bushes.
- The suspension will feel soft and produce a lot of roll
- The brakes will overheat if pushed for too long.
None of these are big issues to worry about except the brakes, some race fluid would be ideal and keeping stints to under 15 minutes a time and you'll be OK.
No not really seen many people use octane boosters really.
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Cheers for the replies and advice lads :happy2:
Also as for 'circuits' in IE, the depressing reality is that it's just 'circuit'. In the Republic of Ireland the literally one race track, Mondello Park.
I'll ask for maximum front negative camber when I get my alignment done as there's still 5mm of tyre poke on the new springs, so that should help reduce sidewall roll on the Good Years.
As for racing brake fluid, I'll look into getting it changed, just need to find a garage that is willing to source it and fit it for me as I'm not too comfortable with changing such a safety-critical component myself with no experience of working on brakes.
What would happen if I stuck to OEM brake fluid and it overheated, would there be a dramatic explosion under the bonnet or would the brake pedal just go soft?
The planned track day is on Easter Monday, so I've got plenty of time to prepare in advance, so further advice is still appreciated :smiley:
Thanks!
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Oh that's annoying. I thought you guys would have more than just 1.
The camber won't be adjustable unless you have adjustable top mounts/adjustable ball joints/adjustable bushes etc. But if the car is lower it may give you a little extra neg camber anyway.
Ate's race fluid is cheap and decent. Think Murray motorsport is a motorsport retailer in Republic of Ireland? They'll have a range of race fluids, just pick something that has a boiling point of at least 280 degrees Celsius dry.
You can use oem yes, it has a low boiling point so when it hits that the fluid develops air bubbles which means you may develop a dead spot/spongy pedal. The race fluid stuff will have a "wet" rating too which means once its been boiled it can still withstand X temperature which is another advantage over em stuff.
Personally I would change the fluid and keep stints to under 15 mins and you'll have a worry free day.
Tyres are a real contributor to brake temps too, so your road tyres shouldn't push them beyond the limit with short stints. If you went for a stickier tyre you ought to look at some better pads/cooling.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/bNfwpGwW/PXL-20230323-163723983.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9z1hBQTY)
Here's the brake fluid that came out of the car, the mechanic that did it is shocked that my previous garage said last year that the brake fluid was still fine when checked by their machine.
From the limited service history on the car, it seems like the brake fluid was last changed in 2013, or 60k miles ago :scared:
Replaced with Millers Motorsport Racing Brake Fluid 300 PLUS. Took 1.2 litres. Haven't had a chance to test the brakes yet, but at least I know the fluid won't get me killed now :smiley:
Cheers
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Engine oil :grin:? Nice choice in fluid.
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Trackday complete, and car has survived without any major problems (or so I think?).
But I got low oil pressure on a hard corner towards the end of it. As soon as I came out of the corner the light disappeared. So I assumed right away this was due to oil starvation, but it made little sense considering the oil was at 70% when cold between min and max three days before.
Coming back to the pit slowly revealed the dipstick to be at 60%, on a hot engine.
I changed the oil a couple days ago, completed a 550km round trip to Portrush in NI yesterday (mostly sitting around 3.5k revs), and then did 18 rounds of Mondello Park's 2.8km track today.
Would it make sense that it used so much oil in so little distance, considering how hard it's been driven? I would've expected Miller's expensive nanostuff to have protected it a bit better than this. There are no visible oil leaks.
Cheers
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Hope you enjoyed!
You should not see low oil pressure on road tyres, these engines are pretty good when it comes to oil distribution on cornering, would only worry about it on slick tyres of very sticky semi slicks.
Do you know the condition of your oil pickup pipe? They can clog up a little and cause issues, not that common but well documented issue that can happen. Simple cleaning sorts them out. But mainly I would make sure the oil is always at max before going on track which is possibly your issue. You should not be using that much of the Millers stuff really, you may have a leak somewhere.
I had an oil leak through the rocker cover gasket which was small enough to not leave any oil puddles but enough over time that I would have to occasionally top up. Since I sorted that out and using Miller's oil I've not seen any oil usage at all that is visible on the dip stick, doesn't do many miles but most of its miles are very hard.
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I did enjoy the track day, thanks! It's just that little scare at the end that got me.
I had a whole saga on this forum over the span of 4 months back in 2021 about low oil pressure, but back then it was due to the oil being over filled/pick up clogged, I never found out the true cause. This was from dodgy maintenance by the previous owner, and I got the light literally the next day after buying it off them (doing some hard acceleration, but the light only popped up when slowly driving around an estate at low RPM, and then later again slowing for a red light after hard acceleration) , and unfortunately it was a private sale so there was no going back.
The oil had metal shavings in it. After replacing the pick-up, pump chain cover and even the big end bearings on the rods, the issue disappeared and the oil pressure tested fine, measuring within spec using a proper oil pressure gauge. Each subsequent time I changed the oil afterwards there were less and less shavings, so the issue should have been sorted. Engine compression was fine too. The last oil change I did had no visible metal, even a holding a magnet to the used oil pouring out of the sump didn't affect it, unlike with initial oil changes.
On the track today it happened at at least 3k RPM around a sharp bend, a completely different scenario to last time. The measurement of the oil after I took afterwards was on a hot engine, I've not checked the cold level but I bet it's much lower than the 60% on the dipstick I measured.
It's also worth noting my oil level sensor may be broken, a Mechanic's Delphi scan once showed a 00562, oil sensor 'short circuit to positive or open circuit' 'intermittent'. And I've never gotten a low oil light, even despite my oil once going below min.
I choose to believe it's the oil level and sharp bend that caused it, because I can't fathom digging around in the guts of the engine again for months trying to find the cause :scared:
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Morning update: Bad news, the oil level only dropped 150ml over the course of the track day. There's not even the tiniest puddle of oil under the car, which I was praying for.
The oil pressure light happened on long right turn, exactly at the moment I started turning in harder during the turn. But @Clarkj93 (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=98143) said these engines are pretty good with oil distribution so, I have no idea what could have caused an oil pressure light at that high of RPM. There was no rattling or burning smell, the latter of which happened last time I got the light.
The car is just lowered on H&R springs on OEM shocks and Eagle F1 Asymmetric 6s, so hardly slicks.
Guess it's time to drop the sump then? Or just buy an oil pressure gauge and stick it in? The old one I used was crap, so I'll buy a new one.
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For reference, this is roughly where on the track around where happened. Unfortunately we didn't get a video of the lap when the light happened, this is taken from another video. I think the light happened as I upshifted to fourth. Lasted for 3 seconds and disappeared. Never reappeared. In my memory the turn was much tighter than it was in reality, so I don't think oil starvation from hard cornering was the cause.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9Xx1hWQ6/Screenshot-20230411-104506.png) (https://postimg.cc/MXQ10JR5)
Maybe I'll just drain the oil, inspect it for anything suspicious, have a gander around through the sump plug hole with an endoscope, check the filter for metal shavings, and if nothing's there I'll put in the new oil and see if it comes back.
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Morning update: Bad news, the oil level only dropped 150ml over the course of the track day. There's not even the tiniest puddle of oil under the car, which I was praying for.
In case you aren't aware of this; all of the modern engine oils are tested, and known to lose anywhere between 5% and 13% from evaporation alone, caused by heat. The evaporation can occur rather quickly, especially if the oil reaches a high temp...and the duration of heat exposure is another 'evap' factor.
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Your car has history with the oil light coming on, so could be related. Maybe pushing it on track has uncovered a weakness in the oil system?
I'm amazed more GTIs don't throw the pressure warning light on track to be honest as they don't even have baffled sumps!
Either way, unless the pressure sensor is knackered, you've lost pressure, so a bearing/journal or two could have suffered. Look for metal shavings or glitter in your next oil change.
Maybe try a 10W60 if consumption is an issue on track. 30 and 40 will burn off super fast.
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Apologies for the spew of posts above, I'm just going crazy overthinking everything at this point, and I can't drain the oil right because the weather's horrendous here.
Morning update: Bad news, the oil level only dropped 150ml over the course of the track day. There's not even the tiniest puddle of oil under the car, which I was praying for.
In case you aren't aware of this; all of the modern engine oils are tested, and known to lose anywhere between 5% and 13% from evaporation alone, caused by heat. The evaporation can occur rather quickly, especially if the oil reaches a high temp...and the duration of heat exposure is another 'evap' factor.
Wow that's more than I expected. But I meant the other way around. I meant I was hoping it had burnt more oil as that would've meant the light was caused by oil starvation from low oil, the simplest fix. In this situation i would've preferred to find the dipstick on min.
Your car has history with the oil light coming on, so could be related. Maybe pushing it on track has uncovered a weakness in the oil system?
I'm amazed more GTIs don't throw the pressure warning light on track to be honest as they don't even have baffled sumps!
Either way, unless the pressure sensor is knackered, you've lost pressure, so a bearing/journal or two could have suffered. Look for metal shavings or glitter in your next oil change.
Maybe try a 10W60 if consumption is an issue on track. 30 and 40 will burn off super fast.
It could possibly be so that something internal has finally given way, but I doubt it considering the engine sounds perfectly normal, and there's no smell like the last time.
Since our engines don't have baffled sumps, do you think there's a possibility it could have been momentary oil starvation caused by a long and tight 100kmh bend? My friend in the passenger seat who was there when the light happened said it was my fastest speed through that bend. And this was after two previous hot laps.
Since the light disappeared once the revs dropped below ~2.5k (which would mean less oil pressure), I am becoming fairly certain it was caused by temporary starvation or something temporarily blocked the pick up pipe.
But I appreciate the replies as always. Hopefully this isn't the start of the end :sad1:
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Finally got around to draining the oil and doing my inspection, the oil was black of course.
Here a cutout of the filter, which probably didn't even cover 1000km since I changed it:
(https://i.postimg.cc/1zjtZbJ1/PXL-20230413-160047941.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Ff0myWMT)
(https://i.postimg.cc/yxq8D9Mf/PXL-20230413-160156169.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2bwDJq8v)
It may be hard to see on the picture, but there's tiny metal specks here and there. Half were magnetic. Notice there's quite a lot of 'dirt' though.
On the other hand, here's the filter from the previous 5000km, also on the same Miller's:
(https://i.postimg.cc/QMX5tLQB/PXL-20230413-165356699.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bZBdCBF8)
(https://i.postimg.cc/rmHtQKvW/PXL-20230413-165445755.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ygFdNY6Y)
It has a similar amount of metal fragments, mostly non-magnetic? Or they're just embedded too much in the filter for the magnet to pull them out.
There's a lot less 'dirt' on the filter with much higher mileage. Could this be because the higher track temperatures dislodged dirt and gunk from around the engine? Could some of that dirt and gunk maybe gotten in the pick up pipe, causing the light? Just my theory.
Also as promised, looked with an endoscope looking for loose things that could've potentially blocked the pick up, but I didn't see anything:
(https://i.postimg.cc/fR3Wf8MH/20230413171816556.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NKcwg79T)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZKsKNGzB/20230413171950027.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZC3StDR4)
Put in the Mobil 1, and took her on an aggressive drive around the neighborhood and then the motorway to try and recreate the conditions it had on track, at high RPMs around bends. Of course it wasn't a true recreation of the track because otherwise I'd be writing this post from a jail cell :grin:
But I'm happy to say the oil pressure light didn't come back.
What are your thoughts on this? Cheers :happy2:
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Yeah I think the 'dirt' is carbon/sludge dislodging from various points around the engine. Mine used to do the same. I could squidge the 'chunks' between my fingers and they were smooth, not crispy, if that makes sense, so I wasn't too concerned.
Is yours a manual? Little shavings could be the crank thrust bearing wearing out, especially if it has an uprated clutch, or a worn out original that has become heavy.
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Yeah I think the 'dirt' is carbon/sludge dislodging from various points around the engine. Mine used to do the same. I could squidge the 'chunks' between my fingers and they were smooth, not crispy, if that makes sense, so I wasn't too concerned.
Is yours a manual? Little shavings could be the crank thrust bearing wearing out, especially if it has an uprated clutch, or a worn out original that has become heavy.
Yeah it's a manual.
I feel the clutch has been replaced in the past, considering the biting point was pretty low down when I first got it when it was at 117k miles. Now it's at 127k miles and the biting points higher than it used to be, but still not too close to the top of the pedal.
I have the clutch stickiness issue, where every now and then the clutch pedal will be hesitant to rebound instantly back up. The car is in gear, but the pedal about half-way up sticks for a split second before continuing to go back up all the way. Twice on the track on it got stuck half way up for about a full second when downshifting from 4th to 3rd, but it was engaged in 3rd gear, just the pedal wasn't up fully. That's the longest it's ever happened.
But in normal driving I'd say it gets stuck (and only for 0.1 seconds) every 50 shifts. I think this is down to a bearing on the gearbox, that you can get a shim kit for. But I'm not too bothered to fix it.
Also for reference of the state of the filter, here's the filter that I originally pulled out when I first got the car haha, it was dreadful:
(https://i.postimg.cc/fyhfPL6D/Screenshot-20230414-111135.png) (https://postimg.cc/Q9079X8y)
I'm not sure if I posted the image from my original posts in 2021, but there was a metal 'shard' in the sump, about 12mm in length and 1mm thick. I couldn't identify what it was. There was other crap in the sump like a piece of electrical wire, so I didn't rule it out as an internal engine part that had broken off. It can be seen in this picture in the pool of oil, just below the broken pieces of plastic from the pump chain cover (which is what may have caused the low oil pressure the first time around):
(https://i.postimg.cc/NMVjG2gv/Screenshot-20230414-111351.png) (https://postimg.cc/PpWj2xpS)
And crank thrust bearing being wrecked means engine out and full rebuild right? So is it time to start thinking of selling her in your opinion, to avoid spending thousands on her again?
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I'm back, without a bang. Yet.
(https://i.postimg.cc/pLxYbwp6/PXL-20230428-194114381.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nCRQqwK4)
Here's a video of the pressure at idle and 2000RPM. (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/npPv2r0SCnk)
Correct Specs for EA113 TFSI:
Idle 1-1.2 bar or (14.5-17.4 PSI )
2000 RPM 2.7-4.5 bar (39-65 PSI)
3000 RPM 3.5-4.5 Bar (51-65 PSI)
So something's amiss. 2000RPM Pressure is fine, but idle is definitely not. The oil pressure should never be below 1 bar, let alone on a thicker oil like the 0W40 which should be raising the pressure itself by 1 extra psi at idle.
Unlike last time I had low oil pressure, where I accidentally cured it before finding the symptom by dropping the sump before measuring the pressure, this time I haven't changed anything and just went straight to sticking in the pressure gauge.
I'll start off by checking the cam chain cover oil control rings, and the oil channels in the cover too. And then remeasure the pressure. That will likely yield little to no difference, but it's worth checking as I've never taken it off before.
Then I'll drop the sump, replace the pick up pipe and install a VIS balance shaft delete freewheel. Also I'll check the ends of the balance shafts aren't loose, as well as no mounting bolts having have fallen out of the oil pump, like one did last time (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,132008.msg1151323.html#msg1151323).
And then fingers crossed, the pressure will be back to normal when everything's been put back together.
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That large shard of metal doesn't look good :surprised: I think it might be the thrust bearing, especially as you've said clutch pedal return is a bit lazy. It's not a complete rebuild to replace that, but it pretty much is an engine out job though.
Get a pry bar on the crank pulley and lever on it to check the end float. It should only move laterally about 0.5mm at the most.
You would definitely be losing a bit of low rpm oil pressure if the crank and/or thrust washer are breaking up. Try the gearbox shim kit first but it's not looking good overall with that slither of metal and the shavings in the oil filter :confused:
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Got to taking the cam chain cover off, had to improvise to get the bottom T30 put as my normal bit wouldn't fit :grin:
(https://i.postimg.cc/prKRrXGs/PXL-20230502-184019073.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zHD9P51h)
I didn't find anything suspicious, everything looks normal. Tensioner still tensioning. Oil control rings are perfectly intact.
(https://i.postimg.cc/y8LBkGjC/PXL-20230502-184813520.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xXNBZtB6)
(https://i.postimg.cc/N0VcxrZN/PXL-20230502-184818139.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yJFt1W19)
Of note are the cam lobe and cam follower, both of which have a little wear.
(https://i.postimg.cc/X7yyKwhP/PXL-20230502-190636796.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYpTpV9d)
(https://i.postimg.cc/SsBYHRYd/PXL-20230501-144149613-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgcJnsmt)
The cam follower was replaced 11k miles ago, with FEBI one off Amazon. Keep in mind the last 3k miles have been at sub spec oil pressure, this may have accelerated it's wear. I assume it needs to be replaced?
Contrast this with the one I pulled out 11k miles ago, with an unknown mileage:
(https://i.postimg.cc/GtTJs6G7/Screenshot-20230502-210638.png) (https://postimg.cc/kR9t01jK)
And also the cam lobe 11k miles ago, which doesn't like like it changed much in that distance.
(https://i.postimg.cc/bwrYH8sw/Screenshot-20230502-205934.png) (https://postimg.cc/PCGkTgWg)
You make a valid point @Pudding (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) . But the metal shard was 11k miles ago, long before the clutch issue. The clutch issue actually began after a failed 3k rpm clutch drop, where I forgot to put the handbrake down. Painful, I know.
I dropped the sump 6 months after the initial drop, and found no more metal shards. So I doubt that's the thrust bearing.
But I gotta drop the sump before jumping to conclusions, as I haven't had the chance to get it jacked up yet. I hope there's a glaring answer in there, waiting for me.
EDIT: FEBI cam follower is €30, while OEM cam follower is a mind boggling €67 from VW :confused:
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Ah OK, I thought those pics were the current situation!
67 for a cam follower!!! :surprised:
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Replaced pick-up pipe (barely anything on it, slight dirt in the sides), installed VIS freewheel, new filter and Mobil 0W-40. No loose objects in sump, just a little dirt. Balance shaft ends weren't loose.
Retested oil pressure, gave engine a good while to warm up, 90 degrees and then another 10min.
Hot idle, still at 0.8 bar. May have increased by 0.05bar, but it's negligible.
(https://i.postimg.cc/0ydFhjwp/PXL-20230507-170321430.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/21y0ZzT6)
2000rpm: 51psi
3000rpm: 57psi
Both are well within spec.
Video of RPM test:
Also changed out the PCV for the oil one, yielded identical pressure.
What to do next? Is this oil pressure acceptable?
Cheers :sad1:
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Email from Wasamotor:
(https://i.postimg.cc/7Z4MNJFy/Screenshot-20230508-103134.png) (https://postimg.cc/dLWys3QW)
I would prefer to definitively find the issue before sinking more money in to iy, and Wasa weren't so helpful with their response in that regard.
How do I check the oil pressure release valve has failed on the oil pump?
EDIT: Found a thread on Audizine, it's a gold mine for information on this exact issue.
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/942266-Absolute-Taint-Punch-Low-Oil-Pressure-on-Freshly-Rebuilt-2-0-FSI-Input-Needed
(https://i.postimg.cc/fyWTb45V/Screenshot-20230508-110317.png) (https://postimg.cc/gX5PMTCp)
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Tested with old oil pressure gauge, identical results.
Interestingly, the oil pressure is at 20 psi at 850rpm when hot. That's a big jump from the 12 psi at 720rpm. Tempted to just raise the idle rpm in VCDS, but I think that's a foolhardy solution.
Compression is still alright, only checked Cylinder 1, first try 175psi, second 160psi. Hot and WOT.
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Took the oil pump out, and the pump mechanism to inspect it, as suggested by the WASAmotors engineer I've been emailing. This was in order to check the oil pressure release valve was not stuck open (mine isn't) or there isn't any wear in its bore. It's the brown thing with the ridges.
(https://i.postimg.cc/tg1MsRYv/PXL-20230509-184541583-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4Kg5Mgvp)
I tried to get the back of it off to further check, but even with a breaker bar I couldn't.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Kj9WK1rV/PXL-20230509-183612961.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dZy6ptfm)
I sent to first picture to the WASA engineer and he had this to say:
(https://i.postimg.cc/FzJSSqj4/Screenshot-20230510-151558.png) (https://postimg.cc/QKhVGf44)
Bashing in my M8 spline with a mallet and using a wobble 1/4" extension I managed to get all three oil squirters/oil jets out, and I took a short video of the condition of their ball-spring valves.
eature=share
As you can see, the first one has very little resistance to pressing it and even gets stuck when pressed down. The second has medium resistance and the third a high resistance. The first one is the most likely cause of the low oil pressure at idle.
Now I know the WASA engineer said the pump is bad. But my oil pressure above idle is absolutely fine, same as it was 11k miles ago, and within VWs oil pressure specification. I've had 5k km oil filter changes with no metal shavings at this oil pressure. I can't justify another ~€300 for another if mine is working sufficiently.
My plan is to replace the three squirters and that's it. Not sure I'll bother with replacement bolts for the oil pump since there's no active balance shaft there anymore to shake them out anyway.
Cheers, hopefully this is helpful to someone :happy2:
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If those marks at the bottom of the pump housing are gouging, then I think Wasa Motor are right. It certainly doesn't look healthy.
Maybe pick one up from ebay, strip it down and see if it's better than yours?
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Little interim update while waiting for the oil squirters.
If those marks at the bottom of the pump housing are gouging, then I think Wasa Motor are right. It certainly doesn't look healthy.
Maybe pick one up from ebay, strip it down and see if it's better than yours?
Took a more serious look at the gouging, as I realised it may have looked pretty serious from the photo I sent.
Gouging as seen from my phone camera:
(https://i.postimg.cc/6Qn2FHd0/topgouging.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sBfgh4HQ)
Gouging as seen from my endoscope camera. Enough to catch a nail, but not as deep as it looks from the previous picture:
(https://i.postimg.cc/0Q5kZZZr/sidegouging1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R38xZ7kz)
(https://i.postimg.cc/gJMY7RBs/sidegouging2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gXZFXwpL)
PRV bore inspection, doesn't seem worn out. No wiggle room.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7Yzk3pDm/PRVgouging.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mtTJRpPH)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BnGGMMns/PRVgouging2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Lnv7skP0)
And the PRV spring is still intact.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SKSbpR9v/PRVspring.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bZBBxz3x)
I can't justify a >€300 used oil pump when the oil pump I have seems fine and the pressure it puts out is within spec. I read on the Audizine forum that the PRV is designed to open at 58 PSI anyway to prevent over pressurising, and my oil pump gets up to 58psi at 3k RPM.
We'll also see how the new oil squirters affect the pressure at higher RPMs, I doubt they will, but there's a chance. Here's to hoping. :drinking:
Idle pressure is the only one out of spec so that's definitely going to be fixed by this. Here are the three squirters next to each other, spot the odd one out:
(https://i.postimg.cc/7h2g9gxG/PXL-20230511-154451618-MP.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xN9JTNNn)
Apologies for the photo-heavy post.
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I was right. OllieVRS 1-0 WasaMotors Engineer.
Just joking, there was probably some truth to his claim, I'll go into detail later.
So I've fixed the idle oil pressure. After replacing all three accessible oil squirters, the hot idle pressure has been raised from 0.8 bar to 1.2 bar (12psi to 17psi).
The original guidelines from the Audizine forum state that the measurements are at 80 degrees engine oil but I think that's a load of BS so I just let the car idle for 15 more minutes after the coolant hits 90 and then take my measurements.
Measurements before fix:
Idle: 0.8 bar (12psi)
2000: 3.6 bar (52psi)
3000: 3.9 bar (57psi)
Measurements after fix:
Idle: 1.2 bar (17psi)
2000: 3.6 bar (52psi)
3000: 3.9 bar (57psi)
So only the idle pressure has changed after the fix, the other pressure remain identical. Measurements done on 0W40 before and 5W40 after, so difference should be negligible.
Final Hot Idle
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZYVngPHH/PXL-20230520-191251238.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/s1G3GhtG)
Video of Idle-2000-3000rpm
eature=share
Picture of original oil squirter (left) 06F 103 154 A, next to newer revision oil squirter 06F 103 154 C. The only visible difference is that the ball-spring on the newer one has a flat face. Apparently VIN numbers matter when buying these, I asked the guys at Skoda-Parts.com and they confirmed the newer one was the one for my Octavia.
(https://i.postimg.cc/P5YQmrsB/PXL-20230516-185053855.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BjZF33vg)
Picture of where the oil squirters are located and how we reached them (the crankshaft has to been turned to a very specific angle for each of the three). We used 1/4" wobble-end extensions and big hex M8 spline bits inside 10mm sockets, and torqued the new ones to 27Nm. A long screwdriver is also required to point the spray jet nozzle in the right direction as you tighten the bolt and to line it up with the flat groove in the block.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVy44jdN/PXL-20230520-153802059.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ts93gPBF)
My final thoughts are that my pressures are well within spec, but seemed to be capped just under 4 bar (59psi). I think this is due to the spring in the pressure release valve in the oil pump being weaker due to age and poor servicing in the past, so it's opening slightly prematurely. Just 10k miles caused my idle pressure to drop from 18psi to 12psi, basically one of the oil squirters collapsed in that mileage, so I would be anxious that the spring in the PRV could collapse in similar mileage too.
The WasaMotors Engineer pointed out the scratches in the pump mechanism look bad but it's impossible to measure the effect of them on the oil pressure. And that my pump would benefit from their oil pressure fix. Which I would look into were it not for the fact that my pump's PRV bolt seems to be permanently glued shut. Not even a breaker bar could get it open :thinking: . It must have been already fixed once by a previous owner, and they bodged it.
The scratches would affect the pressure across the board, whereas the PRV would only affect the higher RPM pressure. My 3000RPM pressure only being slightly higher than my 2000RPM pressure would suggest the PRV spring is the main limiting factor.
Ideally I should be able to surpass 4 bar at 3000RPM. I'll remeasure it in a few months to see if the upper pressure limit has degraded any further.
That's all for now. I'm going to work on an oil pressure solution guide for the forum considering how much knowledge I've gained researching this topic, and also from experience. Hopefully that will be of use to a few people :happy2:
Cheers
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Yeah the gouging marks look far less severe in the newer close up pics :happy2: Still not ideal, but not as bad as I first thought.
Hmmmm, yeah, definitely evidence of poor maintenance in the past. The very dark staining on the metal castings is a clear indicator of skipped oil changes.
Still, you've persevered and improved the low rpm oil pressure, so go you fella :happy2:
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Dropped my post-trackday filter after 1000km. This filter has been run on a couple hours of insufficient (idle) oil pressure while I was fixing the oil pressure, and then 1000km since then on what I assume is adequate oil pressure.
It's hard to capture in a picture the state of it, so I took a 44 sec video. I would appreciate if yous could give me your opinions on it:
Cheers
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I don't think that looks good.
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1000km since the oil filter video I last posted, things are looking up. Different lighting in the video I know, to my human eyes there appears to be around 20% less metal. There must just be metal flakes floating around the oil and stuck in different corners of the oil system, that will just get flushed out over time and caught in the filter eventually.
My oil pressure's still in spec too, so false alarm about my engine tearing itself to death guys :smiley: