MK5 Golf GTI

All Things MK6 R and GTI => MK6 General Area => Topic started by: MattC on April 13, 2023, 05:35:35 pm

Title: Mk6 Golf R Stage 1 low power, high torque
Post by: MattC on April 13, 2023, 05:35:35 pm

Hi all

Just had my car tuned and results were a bit disappointing. Went in with 271hp 293 Ft-Lb, came out with 288hp 342 Ft-Lb. Stage 1 should be giving around 310hp and 330 Ft-Lb on a healthy engine (I think this dyno reads a bit high tbh).

No boost leaks as far as I could see on OBD11 and nothing reported from the tuner. The DSG was cutting some power as it reached the torque limit but he explained this shouldn't really affect the power that much. On the dyno the engine spat a bit of oil out on to the engine cover, presumably through the oil cap. They said replace the oil cap and replace the PCV and the car might come to life. I have found another person on a different forum who had pretty much the exact same issue, replaced the PCV and reported it felt faster but no numbers. I've just tested the PCV with the engine running (not sure how reliable this is) by removing the oil cap which resulted in the engine nearly stalling (which means the PCV is good afaik).

Dyno graph:
(https://i.imgur.com/Bqesjvr.png)

Title: Re: Mk6 Golf R Stage 1 low power, high torque
Post by: GVK on April 13, 2023, 05:48:52 pm

Seems a poor result , was the tuner able to explain anything like low boost pressure because of a weak actuator etc?

Who mapped the car?

Title: Re: Mk6 Golf R Stage 1 low power, high torque
Post by: MattC on April 13, 2023, 06:37:12 pm

No, nothing about boost pressure. The only thing he saw was the DSG hitting the torque limit which he showed me in a spreadsheet. I don't understand how torque can be so high but power is low? Could bad timing affect power alone? Showing 29.5 - 30KW camshaft adjustment intake where it should be 28KW and -3KW phase position which is fine afaik.

Title: Re: Mk6 Golf R Stage 1 low power, high torque
Post by: MattC on April 15, 2023, 10:55:50 pm

I did some logging this morning following some info from APR (http://www.goapr.co.uk/support/datalogging.php) using OBDEleven so can't use the logs BB code (I tried converting it but failed). Pulls were done in 3rd gear, I messed up the 2nd log from starting at a higher RPM but still should be usable.

Here is the data:
Log 1:

Quote

time	General: Engine speed (G28)	Misfire recognition - total: Misfire counter	Lambda control (lambda sensor voltages): Lambda control bank 1 (actual)	Idle speed stabilization: Acceleration pedal position sensor 1 (G79)	Idle speed stabilization: Throttle valve angle	Fuel injection: Injection timing	Fuel injection (fuel pump adaptation): Current fuel pressure	Charge pressure control: Boost pressure control (N75)	Charge pressure control: Boost pressure (specified)	Charge pressure control: Boost pressure (actual)	Fuel injection (fuel rail pressure): Rail pressure (specified)	Fuel injection (fuel rail pressure): Rail pressure (actual)
0	1360.0	0.0	1.99	0.0	4.7	0.0	4.95	0.0	260.0	1010.0	65.61	65.61
865	1280.0	0.0	1.99	37.6	15.3	3.32	4.69	94.9	1400.0	1020.0	70.96	71.97
1918	1520.0	0.0	0.88	99.6	91.8	3.57	4.77	94.9	1630.0	1220.0	81.42	81.17
3033	2000.0	0.0	0.88	99.6	99.6	4.34	4.72	94.9	2230.0	1530.0	94.47	94.84
4062	2640.0	0.0	0.9	99.6	99.6	6.12	4.63	65.1	2400.0	2380.0	102.62	101.92
5002	3520.0	0.0	0.91	99.6	99.6	7.91	4.61	61.6	2530.0	2540.0	102.62	103.46
6052	4400.0	0.0	0.88	99.6	99.6	7.4	4.46	67.5	2460.0	2400.0	103.78	104.92
7185	5280.0	0.0	0.85	99.6	99.6	6.63	4.35	78.4	2390.0	2150.0	110.85	115.67
8232	6040.0	0.0	1.0	0.0	12.2	0.51	5.5	0.0	290.0	1190.0	85.76	86.49
9051	6000.0	0.0	1.02	0.0	13.7	0.51	5.01	0.0	290.0	1120.0	82.54	82.54
10295	5840.0	0.0	1.99	0.0	13.7	0.0	5.03	0.0	290.0	1120.0	82.82	82.82
11511	5560.0	0.0	1.99	0.0	13.3	0.0	5.14	0.0	290.0	1120.0	83.08	83.08

Log 2:

Quote

time	General: Engine speed (G28)	General: Ignition timing angle	Timing retardation cylinder 1-4: Timing retardation cylinder 1	Timing retardation cylinder 1-4: Timing retardation cylinder 2	Timing retardation cylinder 1-4: Timing retardation cylinder 3	Timing retardation cylinder 1-4: Timing retardation cylinder 4	Lambda control (lambda sensor voltages): Lambda control bank 1 (actual)	Idle speed stabilization: Acceleration pedal position sensor 1 (G79)	Fuel injection: Injection timing	Charge pressure control: Engine load (actual value)	Charge pressure control: Boost pressure (actual)	Fuel injection (fuel rail pressure): Rail pressure (actual)
0	1920.0	17.3	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.94	19.2	2.04	63.2	1090.0	86.13
1134	2080.0	12.0	0.0	0.0	-0.75	0.0	0.96	99.6	3.83	112.0	1430.0	100.41
1904	2680.0	11.3	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.9	99.6	5.1	156.4	1970.0	109.69
2823	3240.0	2.3	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.91	99.6	7.14	191.7	2640.0	113.21
3837	4080.0	4.5	0.0	-0.75	0.0	-0.75	0.86	99.6	7.14	191.7	2470.0	113.51
4783	4920.0	7.5	0.0	-0.75	0.0	-0.75	0.85	99.6	6.38	185.0	2250.0	117.7
5776	5680.0	11.3	0.0	-0.75	0.0	-0.75	0.84	99.6	5.87	170.7	1940.0	112.05
6772	6320.0	33.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	1.02	0.0	0.51	17.3	1200.0	81.55
7798	6160.0	11.3	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.99	0.0	0.0	17.3	1110.0	81.6
8847	6000.0	10.5	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	1.99	0.0	0.0	17.3	1130.0	82.47
9873	5760.0	8.3	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	1.99	0.0	0.0	18.0	1120.0	83.2

I found the boost specified vs actual interesting. Is the difference at the beginning just "boost lag"?
(https://i.imgur.com/HnLw722.png)

What is going on with the N75? lol, could be the slow polling rate of OBDEleven... Not sure.
(https://i.imgur.com/kwg9zdx.png)

Does any of this data imply PCV? Or anything else? It all looks fine to me.

Thanks, appreciate any help and info.

EDIT: Converted boost pressure to Psi.

Title: Re: Mk6 Golf R Stage 1 low power, high torque
Post by: pudding on May 12, 2023, 07:51:14 pm

Yeah, a KO4 won't do much at 2000rpm, hence the lag down there. The commanded is always maxxed out in that region to get it spooled up, so ignore that difference. 3000rpm onwards is where you need to focus and it seems to match there.

It's hard to build a full picture as you backed off the gas at 5500ish in the first log.  Need to keep the pedal pinned all the way to the redline, but appreciate that is difficult on a public road.....and you need to do it in 4th as that's a 1-1 ratio, so will take lower gearing torque out of the equation.

What I would say though, the fuel rail pressure is low for 1.5 bar boost.  Your map is only commanding 100-110 bar, which is stock pressure for a GTI/ED30.  CDL/CDLAs run 1.2 bar iirc, stock, but I'm not sure what HPFP pressure the stock map commands on those engines. Stage 1 tuned K04s normally request 125-130 bar, but then you're at the limit of the stock FPR.  Did you fit an RS4 FPR?

The big torque spike is just boost, but the power tailing off seems like a fuelling shortfall to me, going by the data to hand.  Did you monitor the short term fuel trims on the dyno? +25% is the maximum adjustment and if it's sitting at that on a hard pull, the HPFP can't keep up.  Knock regulation should be monitored as well as that can cut power also.  I think 15 degrees retard is your limit, and then it's detonation city. 15 degrees retard would easily cost you 30-50hp, depending on boost and rpm.

Have you got internals in the pump?  You'll probably need them to get the full power.

Title: Re: Mk6 Golf R Stage 1 low power, high torque
Post by: MattC on May 13, 2023, 03:59:34 pm

Thanks Pudding.

I assumed stage 1 would reach 300 - 310 with no hardware changes. Unfortunately, my PCV was blown before I got it tuned. I've changed it now to revision 'R' and just done another log in 4th gear. Fuel pressure is peaking at 120.

Does that mean fuel wasn't modified on the map?

No RS4 FPRV and no HPFP internals. Can the stock HPFP produce 135 bar with RS4 FPRV?

Quote

time	General: Engine speed (G28)	Misfire recognition - total: Misfire counter	Lambda control (lambda sensor voltages): Lambda control bank 1 (actual)	Idle speed stabilization: Acceleration pedal position sensor 1 (G79)	Idle speed stabilization: Throttle valve angle	Fuel injection: Injection timing	Fuel injection (fuel pump adaptation): Current fuel pressure	Charge pressure control: Boost pressure control (N75)	Charge pressure control: Boost pressure (specified)	Charge pressure control: Boost pressure (actual)	Fuel injection (fuel rail pressure): Rail pressure (specified)	Fuel injection (fuel rail pressure): Rail pressure (actual)
973	1880	0	1.99	0	5.9	0	4.76	0	-10.59	0.44	77.62	78.3
2005	1800	0	1.16	99.6	83.9	3.83	4.58	94.9	8.12	2.47	89.67	89.77
3197	1880	0	0.91	99.6	99.6	4.08	4.71	94.9	13.63	7.40	104.03	104.22
4259	2200	0	0.9	99.6	99.6	5.1	4.7	94.9	18.13	14.21	113.9	114.19
5300	2560	0	0.9	99.6	99.6	6.63	4.58	64.3	19.44	24.08	116.21	117.42
6374	3080	0	0.9	99.6	99.2	7.14	4.71	52.5	20.45	19.58	116.52	115.5
7546	3520	0	0.9	99.6	99.6	6.63	4.65	54.9	21.47	20.31	118.17	117.13
8492	3960	0	0.88	99.6	99.6	6.89	4.58	57.6	22.19	21.76	118.94	118.34
9508	4360	0	0.87	99.6	99.6	6.89	4.45	59.2	21.76	21.47	119.11	120.11
10422	4760	0	0.87	99.6	99.6	6.89	4.39	60	21.32	21.03	119.86	120.55
11318	5080	0	0.86	99.6	99.6	6.63	4.47	62.7	21.32	20.74	119.99	120.42
12601	5400	0	0.84	99.6	99.6	6.63	4.47	66.3	20.89	20.02	119.99	121.39
13622	5840	0	0.84	99.6	99.6	6.38	4.5	72.5	20.31	18.71	119.99	119.39
14530	6160	0	0.83	99.6	99.6	6.38	4.57	76.1	19.73	18.13	119.99	119.27
15713	6400	0	0.84	99.6	99.6	6.12	4.67	82.4	15.66	17.11	119.99	123.56

(https://i.imgur.com/5LJWAE2.png)(https://i.imgur.com/BLtjJiX.png)