MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: OllieVRS on July 10, 2023, 04:26:01 pm
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Hi all, been spewing out posts on here recently but there just seems to be so much going on with the car right now.
One of those things is the clutch pedal stickiness, most noticeable after accelerating harshly in 3rd and shifting up to 4th. Sticks for ~0.3 seconds, doesn't affect driving as it's already in gear when this happens, but sours the driving experience.
As the title says, put in a single shim 1000km ago and the clutch pedal became absolutely perfect. Now it's back to its old ways. :sad1:
I ordered three shims expecting there to be more play than there was, but only one was required to nearly eradicate all play from the bearing.
Here's a video from when I installed the shim kit. All seemed well, right?:
To investigate this again would require getting another end cap since they get destroyed when you remove them. I want to check I've not overlooked anything before going down that route, what else could it be?
Also will taking the end cap off for a second time cause enough gearbox oil to be lost to warrant topping it up/replacing it?
Cheers
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I use to own an Audi S4 B5. When driving hard the clutch pedal use to go really hard for a split second then back to normal…. (At times I could hear the fluid) Sometimes the pedal would go hard with normal driving but usually spirited driving caused it nearly every time. Now after replacing everything you can name in that gearbox… I won’t bore you with what was changed but it turned out to be a hydraulic line that had a one way valve inside it that was not allowing fluid to pass at times. It was collapsing inside itself under pressure. When driving it could nearly lift me off my seat when the pedal went solid… literally went hard for half a second. Although your issue may be completely different but reminded me of my issue back in the day.
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Yeah upgrading to a braided line would be a good move as it also removes the stupid damper aka 'clutch delay valve'. Sometimes just running fresh fluid through the line helps as it gets pretty black and grimey at the clutch end compared to the brakes for some reason.
I always did think VW not using a taper roller bearing on the input shaft to counter the thrust loadings of helical gears forcing each other apart, but VW eh? Crazy fools.
You need a good deal more force than a finger to gauge the real play, but if it's around 0.5mm as far as you could tell, that's about right. When I fitted my MK6 gearbox, I ended up using custom shims to remove all play completely. Even those boxes have more end float than I'd like.
If it's not excessive end float on the gearbox input shaft, the only other thing that can cause clutch pedals to behave like that is too much crank end float.
Having said that, where you changing gear at like, 6000+rpm? These boxes are notorious for not liking high rpm shifts, so could just be that. The braided line helps with that also.
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@Ollie - where did you get the shim kit? I think you are in RoI too? I've only seen them on UK sites and Brexit taxes etc...
Sorry cant help with original topic !
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@Ollie - where did you get the shim kit? I think you are in RoI too? I've only seen them on UK sites and Brexit taxes etc...
Sorry cant help with original topic !
Technically it wasn't a kit. I ordered the shims desperately and the end cap on skoda-parts.com. But call your local VW dealer for parts, they might have them. You will need to measure your gearbox end cap diameter beforehand.
The shims are always WHT 001 976.
The end cap on my gearbox was 79mm, so I got 02M 301 211 B. But there is also an 83mm end cap in case yours is that size.
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thank you !
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Reviving this thread.
Have found out how to replicate the issue everytime. After extended breaking, say slowing down for a roundabout from a faster road, the next gear shift after accelerating will always have the stickiness. Always.
What could that be? A symptom of a failing clutch return line?
Cheers.
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When was the clutch last bled? Maybe fluid is a bit old and dirty and perhaps a bit of air in it? Does it get worse with temperature?
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When was the clutch last bled? Maybe fluid is a bit old and dirty and perhaps a bit of air in it? Does it get worse with temperature?
Brake fluid is new since the track day plus two of my calipers have been changed. All 4 calipers bled but not the clutch line. Could air really explain the weird behaviour?
Normally it's on a roundabout just before I get home, so always noticed it with a hot engine. Will go out and check sometime if it happens on a cold engine too.
Cheers.
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Not saying this will solve the issue, but i know someone who had the same on there audi 2.0tfsi manual and after changing the issue it was actually the duelmass flywheel which was failing.
Ive got the exact same issue except ive not had to put a shim in as was solid, ive done a braided hose and master cylinder due to it being the easiest cheaper option, but il be replacing my helix clutch with duelmass once i get the funds together and i can try remember to post my results here.
Another note ive also seen on the tfsi facebook page that some people have had issues the same and it was internal gearbox issues or even crankwalk
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Narrowed down the issue to only happening after the car is thrown into a medium-hard right turn, most often noticeable after accelerating from the third exit of a roundabout or on country roads with tight right-corners.
Issue still appeared after using engine braking to decelerate rather than using the brake, so it's nothing to do with the brakes.
And it never happens on hard left turns.
Normally the pedal stick lasts for 0.3s but the car is in-gear. The longest it's ever happened for was on a track day, on an extremely hard right turn it stuck down for about 1.5s.
I'm sure @Pudding (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10733) may jump to saying it's crankfloat (uh oh) but I'm really hoping to find something else. Could it be caused by something like engine mounts? Or maybe the flywheel or the clutch itself?
Also, not sure if related, but I've noticed the clutch/gearbox is noisier in reverse. Not sure if this is related or not.
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Well the gearbox mount is the weakest one, so if a lot of engine weight is transferring onto it during a hard right hander, that could be worth looking at next.
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Well the gearbox mount is the weakest one, so if a lot of engine weight is transferring onto it during a hard right hander, that could be worth looking at next.
Gearbox you say? I did install a shim which fixed it completely (for 1000km), so could be related to some internal travel within the gearbox?
I have two more shims, all I'd need to do would be to buy another end cap. If you have a feeling that that could solve it I'd be happy to give it a shot. Bit nervous about losing gearbox oil every time I open that end cap though :scared:
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A guy on our local car forum had this issue on his and it turned out to be crankwalk. The thrust washers were destroyed. He had an uprated clutch though.
Not his thrust washers but they were somewhat like that.
It is his flywheel though you can see were it has been rubbing on the block.
(https://i.postimg.cc/PfgfH1cd/Screenshot-20231010-164949.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Cd4pHnS2)
(https://i.postimg.cc/4474jWW8/Screenshot-20231010-165029.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ThxXDJMm)
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A guy on our local car forum had this issue on his and it turned out to be crankwalk. The thrust washers were destroyed. He had an uprated clutch though.
Not his thrust washers but they were somewhat like that.
It is his flywheel though you can see were it has been rubbing on the block.
(https://i.postimg.cc/PfgfH1cd/Screenshot-20231010-164949.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Cd4pHnS2)
(https://i.postimg.cc/4474jWW8/Screenshot-20231010-165029.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ThxXDJMm)
Yikes that's a scary thought. I replaced the connecting rod bearings in-situ as a precaution two years ago after my oil pressure mishaps, but I remember I wasn't able to access the thrust bearings (without taking out the crankshaft, something I wasn't prepared to do). But I would have checked them if I could.
As for the flywheel, I assume that picture you sent @SpongeBob (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=97191) is the view with the sump taken off. Here's mine:
(https://i.postimg.cc/hPVpnFN1/PXL-20230509-190218667.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MvKy0L6n)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9QV1F8h5/flywheel.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vcq50vT3)
These pictures are from this May, or about a year after the issue first appeared. No visible scratches.
What should I check next that doesn't involve completely disassembling the engine?
Cheers :happy2:
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I'd pull the sump and check if there are any marks on the flywheel. You could have someone push the clutch pedal in and out and see if the flywheel moves side to side. Filter the oil to see if there are any metal particles or send some oil off for sampling.
You might get away with pulling the arch liner off the driver side and see if there's any end float at the crank pulley though I'm bot sure if that's possible with the clutch still attached and the timing belt on,
Quite a few mk7's have had the same issue, again with an uprated clutch so maybe check the mk7 forums for crankwalk issues. Symptoms are the same, clutch sticking on right turns.
Here's a link to the thread on our local car forum with the guy who had this issue with his mk5. Pages 4,5 and 6.
https://rmsmotoring.com/forum/threads/i-bought-back-my-old-mk5-gti.223480/page-4
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I'd pull the sump and check if there are any marks on the flywheel. You could have someone push the clutch pedal in and out and see if the flywheel moves side to side. Filter the oil to see if there are any metal particles or send some oil off for sampling.
You might get away with pulling the arch liner off the driver side and see if there's any end float at the crank pulley though I'm bot sure if that's possible with the clutch still attached and the timing belt on,
Quite a few mk7's have had the same issue, again with an uprated clutch so maybe check the mk7 forums for crankwalk issues. Symptoms are the same, clutch sticking on right turns.
Here's a link to the thread on our local car forum with the guy who had this issue with his mk5. Pages 4,5 and 6.
https://rmsmotoring.com/forum/threads/i-bought-back-my-old-mk5-gti.223480/page-4
Fantastic insight, thanks for that. I felt a bit lost when I googled 'sticky clutch pedal when turning right' because nothing relevant came up. Googling 'crankwalk' immediately reveals it to indeed be a symptom.
There's no marks on the flywheel. I have dropped the sump on multiple occasions, each time as a result of inadequate oil pressure, so there were metal particles obviously. But impossible to tell if they were from thrust bearings or from any other moving parts. So I don't think I'll be dropping the sump again, good tip though. Back in May the flywheel was scratch free, so I doubt it's changed since then if the symptoms are still the same.
You might get away with pulling the arch liner off the driver side and see if there's any end float at the crank pulley though I'm bot sure if that's possible with the clutch still attached and the timing belt on,
Nice one, I'll give that ago when I get the chance.
Here's a link to the thread on our local car forum with the guy who had this issue with his mk5. Pages 4,5 and 6.
https://rmsmotoring.com/forum/threads/i-bought-back-my-old-mk5-gti.223480/page-4
The one post I couldn't find with my useless Google search. Thank you :smiley:
The engine is on 131k miles, I assume the clutch has been done at some point in the past, but the engine was unmodified and not mapped when I bought the car so I assume a standard clutch was put back in. I'm hesitant to conclude it's crankwalk, but not sticking my head in the sand either. I'll do some more digging. And I'll see if I can fit another shim in the gearbox.
Cheers :happy2:
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Pressing the clutch in and out with the engine off, in gear:
Pressing the clutch in and out with the engine on, neutral:
Doesn't seem to have any movement with the engine off, just a little whine from somewhere.
With the engine on it's hard to tell if there's any movement because of the vibrations of the car and my camera work not being too great. Maybe 0.5mm of movement or it's placebo. And I got my Mam to press the clutch pedal in and out for me :grin: so not sure if she was pushing it all the way down.
Ordered the end cap for the gearbox so I'll be reattempt to insert more shims into the gearbox next week.
Any thoughts?
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Definitely no crank walk there. You would absolutely know it if there was :happy2: It would move out like 5mm in severe cases when the thrust bearing is practically gone :grin:
The whine is either the cam belt engaging in the sprocket teeth or one of the idler pulley bearings. I wouldn't worry about that. Even a brand new VAG timing belt kit made the same noise on mine.
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Took off the gearbox end cap, no play in the shaft. Went ahead anyway and took off the lock ring, put in another shim but I couldn't get the lock ring back on. So no more room for another shim.
So it's not crankfloat, it's not the gearbox shaft play issue and there are no scratches visible on the engine size of the flywheel.
What else is left?
:thinking:
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(https://i.postimg.cc/JhGdrPX0/IMG-20231105-134605-042.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7CrNX1mr)
Clutch fluid bled and replaced, the stuff that came out was dark and groggy.
Unfortunately no noticeable affect on clutch feel or the pedal stickiness issue.
Guess it's down to flywheel or clutch now :sad1: