MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: mjmallia on October 07, 2024, 10:44:15 am
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Well on inspection of the cam adjuster when I replaced the three plastic rings, I have wear grooves inside due to mine being an early 2005 GTI that had the metal rings originally, so it wore out quicker..........but all wear with time even with the new plastic ring alternative.
Similar to the AKS image here:
(https://i.postimg.cc/VvC5N4zz/genuine-vag-tfsi-variable-valve-timing-vvt-adjuster-06f109088j.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Had a quote from TPS and it is £700 for only the adjuster then additional parts like the chain, tensioner, gaskets etc make it in the £1000 ball park.......... and can not bring myself to spend that on this good, old car.
I was thinking of getting an INA one as the rest of the stuff on the car is perfect.....new genuine chain and tensioner done a few years ago etc
Am I being sensible getting the INA part at about £180 :laugh:
(https://i.postimg.cc/zfFCzz0x/s-l1600.webp) (https://postimages.org/)
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Another possibility is to get a secondhand genuine one. I can get one still attached to a cam from a Golf 6R 2012........just waiting on some images to see if there is any wear or not from the rings.
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I've bought an INA wheel, chain and tensioner. No complaints whatsoever. It completely changed the car after fitting cause before, not only was it giving me timing errors, it was also still accelerating even after i left off the gas. I could literally floor it to 3k, let off the gas, shift gears, disengage the clutch and the car would start spinning the tires for a second and a half, pulling forward. All this with the gas pedal being untouched :signLOL:
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Well the 6R option has wear on it also, so will most probably go down the new INA route (best of the aftermarket I can find).
Just starting to prepare myself with parts and tools
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I have a used OEM part that has no markings on it. I can send photos as soon as I get to it. It needs one of the small bolts replaced because it stripped when I tried to open it for cleaning and further inspection.
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Bite the bullet time and ordered an INA cam adjuster and elring gasket set at a really good price, but also ordered the genuine bolt and socket tool from TPS
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Careful with that bolt. Strips insanely easy. I've had to hammer an M10 into mine to get it out
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Careful with that bolt. Strips insanely easy. I've had to hammer an M10 into mine to get it out
I did that 1 month ago.. I had to drill it out. First time drilling into an engine isn’t a pleasure:)
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:drinking:
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Good luck with it!!
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Small update.
Had the parts and tools delivered.
The cam locking tool was cleaned up, then I welded it up for strength with a lick of paint to finish after a lot of reading other peoples experience. Not pretty but will do the job
(https://i.postimg.cc/CKBtpgMs/20241014-191309.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DWh51RXS)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3wsqKcd5/20241014-191318.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rd9jjg1Q)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MHbN3mZk/20241014-191415.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PvJSPZ8K)
Even the chain which I believe to be genuine VW in INA packaging has the copper link like OE
(https://i.postimg.cc/wjBZFNSP/20241014-191457.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2VP0S1jF)
The INA parts look like really good quality and a few have the VW part numbers ground off
(https://i.postimg.cc/DycWPZDJ/2024-10-15-14-48-35.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Here is a genuine VW part and you can see the part numbers etc before they were ground off
(https://i.postimg.cc/dtknv3T3/2024-10-21-09-47-37.png) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/HsdfcR3T/20241014-191551.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JtYTST9F)
(https://i.postimg.cc/SQWBKk6Z/20241014-191559.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fkR224gX)
Finally the cam adjuster which is fresh and smooth on the inside. Feels like a very weighty and solid part, so feel more confident having seen the quality of it now.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zGPMQBNf/20241014-191635.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yDcvg7kq)
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Good luck keep us updated how you get on. It's not a job I'd be looking forward to doing.
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A quick question as to the tightness of the cam adjuster bolt.
A number of guides state 20Nm (15 ft lbs) plus a 45 degree turn and then the workshop manual I have states to tighten to 100Nm
(https://i.postimg.cc/MHJ0Dwbt/2024-10-18-13-42-14.png) (https://postimages.org/)
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It's 100nm :smiley:
20nm + 45 it would fall off after a few thousand miles.
I strongly recommend getting an assistant to push the torque wrench onto the bolt whilst tightening it because the head is so shallow, you can cheese it out very easily doing it solo. Even more so removing the old bolt! As it's a tapered bolt, it grips really hard onto the VVT adjuster and needs a LOT of torque to remove. And I hope you have a genuine posidrive socket? Aftermarket ones are dire!
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Yes. Got the genuine socket from TPS. I was going to try the impact first when removing and see if I get lucky
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INA is an official VW suplier so you’re good on parts there :happy2:
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Taking a day off and attacking this job tomorrow.
Found another workshop manual stating the 20Nm plus 45 degrees, so doing this as it is the most common result I have found. I will then check the torque after
(https://i.postimg.cc/Wzx7CZw0/2024-10-24-14-49-11.png) (https://postimages.org/)
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That’s the correct torque spec
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Well I started this today at 8am and finished about 6 hours later.
Not that bad a job if your methodical about it. Took the usual apart once at TDC to get to the cam adjuster. Marked the camshaft also to see any movement
(https://i.postimg.cc/Jz0thvqp/20241025-095054.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FYthWPwS)
I attacked the bolt with the cordless Impact and the socket was getting quite warm with no give on the bolt.... so let it cool before I then used a breaker bar and it then gave way and eased off without issue THANK GOD!!! The theory of the impact was to help break the metal bond, and it appears to have worked for me.
The welded up cam tool kit off Ebay worked a treat
(https://i.postimg.cc/R0nF7t2f/20241025-095146.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JyMMmsr4)
The cam adjuster had wear as expected and it was a little difficult to jig the casing off, but replaced the rings anyway. It also looks like it had additional damage from dragging a broken ring part (near the outside ring groove) Glad I changed it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3zcsz9V/20241025-095101.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/c6gqpRRB)
Tensioners were the same make as expected, even the casting marks are the same with 7 years difference
(https://i.postimg.cc/d0MvKxSk/20241025-102836.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SnGH6D4k)
Put the new INA parts on and the old chain had a little play when the chain was placed on its side (this job was done 7 years ago when I got the car)
Marked it up using the Decimal Tenths tip and fitted it all.
(https://i.postimg.cc/d1pg8kP7/20241025-110044.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2bdHY55m)
Cleaned up the mating surfaces for the new gaskets
(https://i.postimg.cc/dV9MzVdX/20241025-100617.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JstdXmpc)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7LYvDrnL/20241025-110018.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/75ctMccv)
Turned the engine over by hand a couple of times and all was fine........then put it all back together and warmed up the car.
The cam case with the rings glided on with ease
Before the phaser was -3 degrees on a hot engine
(https://i.postimg.cc/dt8gyVW1/IMG-20241025-WA0002.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
And now it's 0 degrees also on a hot engine, so very happy.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jStmQY9h/IMG-20241025-WA0003.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
No more minor rattle I was tuning into between 1k and 2k revs, so very, very happy
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Congratulations on a hard job well done. :happy2:
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Thanks :happy2:
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Congrats!
Mine was +3 to +6 before and now, after, it sits at 0 to -3. I could be wrong but if I remember correctly, my bank 1 spec is 28 while actual is 27.5 most of the time at idle
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They are 28 on the later TFSI's, but the AXX variant is 24
I am curious about the 2nd data box on group 91 being 56.1%
I suspect it is because there is some load from the aircon. I might check it with it off tomorrow
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It appears to be the duty cycle of the N205. Wondering if it is faulty, but there are no error codes and car runs great.
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They are 28 on the later TFSI's, but the AXX variant is 24
I am curious about the 2nd data box on group 91 being 56.1%
I suspect it is because there is some load from the aircon. I might check it with it off tomorrow
Aight that's great, I was getting worried. I'll go for some midnight snacks in a bit and take a VVT pic for you. I've replaced my VVT control module/valve thingy. I dont remember exactly but I think it was between 37% and 57%
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The VVT solenoid valve may be stuck or dirty, as all the info i see on them at idle is upto 7ish %.
I will have to take it out and give it a clean
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Honestly at that point just replace it. I've got mine, I think INA, for 20 bucks. It's been a long time so dont quote me on the log numbers just yet xd
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Just to close this off for people.
It seems that the duty cycle (group 91, block 2) controls the oil flow in the solenoid to keep the timing in check
less than 50% retards timing
more than 50% advances
50% locks the timing without adjustment
So a good result for me here.
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how did you get the tools via TPS, I need to tackle the same job but the TPS near me won't sell to none trade anymore!
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I used to work at the VW HQ and know all the guys (some are good friends) at the local TPS where I live, so that is my access to them these days
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what is the Decimal Tenths tip when setting the new chain please?
Also did you apply anything onto any of the gaskets before seating?
Adjuster torque is 20Nm + 45degree?
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This is the video about marking the 18th and 19th link joint (14min 22sec) going left from the brass link and it needs to be facing you........then that is transfered to the other side of the chain so you can see it when mounting
=867
New gaskets come with a blue rubber attached to the metal and when torqued, squash and do the sealing.
AND yes I did the 20Nm + 45 degrees for the adjuster
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awesome, well final parts arrived today so I have everything I need to crack on, only reservation is if the cam lock tool will be strong enough but if not I will weld it up.
Also got a tube of chain protect (liqui moly) included with the chain so will apply a bit of that to the new adjuster and see where it goes.
Watched all the videos I possibly can and with the guides on the forum it doesn't seem to bad of a job. Definitely over ordered some parts, somehow ended up with 3 adjuster bolts :confused: but thats what happens when you're ordering parts at midnight after a 12hour shift