MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: nc35 on April 11, 2010, 05:16:47 pm
-
Hi All
Well spent a good afternoon on the car doing loads of work I have been meaning to do for the past few months.
The main one being replacing the original DV.
Well on the left is the original type "B" and the new type "D" on the right. Is this right or is there bits missing from the original? :scared:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1003.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf153%2Fgawthorpe%2FDV%2F588.jpg&hash=fa3d032f23f127d8fbf3d390b25f6feb3b4b2968)
The second picture is just to show I haven't left anything behind!!!!
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1003.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf153%2Fgawthorpe%2FDV%2F590.jpg&hash=6f3f398bb190ea4c26f3a46db78bc64304328fb8)
The new DV went on without a hitch, and the engine has started, but throughout the afternoon I have become more and more paranoid.
Can someone please put my mind at rest before I take it for a test drive.
Thanks in anticipation.
Lee
-
The "D" type replacement looks fine. Looks the the top of the "B" type is missing.
-
i would be pulling the new one off asap as something has come off the old one :surprised:
-
I have had a good look in the "hole" where the old one came from, before fitting the new one. There is deffo nothing left in there.
This is my worry that there are bits floating around in there that shouldn't be.
Going to nip out and have one more look on the floor under the car etc.
At the moment I think the bit has been missing for some time (possibly since new)
Would I have known? Never driven another GTI to compare.
-
http://www.my-gti.com/wp-content/uploads/06f145710g-06h145710d.jpg
-
Have a look on the back of the wishbone to see if it's dropped off and sitting there. I constantly dropped the allen key and it always ended up there.
Luke.
-
Yep just had a look, no sign of it anywhere :surprised:
Thanks for all your replies.
Can't believe it's been missing since the factory.
-
Yep just had a look, no sign of it anywhere :surprised:
Thanks for all your replies.
Can't believe it's been missing since the factory.
I'd imagine it is going to drive like a different car if it really has always been missing :grin:
-
Yep just had a look, no sign of it anywhere :surprised:
Thanks for all your replies.
Can't believe it's been missing since the factory.
It can't have been missing from the factory or your turbo would not have worked at all!
The end must have fallen off when you removed the old dv. As mentioned above, I kept dropping my allen key and could I buggery find it again. It took ages to find it with a magnet on an extendable pole. I though the cay had eaten the allen key!
-
OK
Been under the car again. No sign of it anywhere. I think I would have found it.
I am also 99% sure that it wasn't there when I took the old off. It wasn't a case of dropping the old DV I had to ease it off. The inside of the old DV even had traces of oil ,pics taken after I cleaned the oil off as I was looking to see if anything was broken.
Are you sure the turbo wouldn't have worked? Thought the dv helped it spin up easier from lower revs?
Really weird.
Think I will take it for a test run tonight before the work run in the morning.
-
What was the reason for changing from a B to a D ?
-
Reading this forum :signLOL:
keep reading the other versions fail.
Don't know what symptoms to look for.
-
Are you sure the turbo wouldn't have worked? Thought the dv helped it spin up easier from lower revs?
Really weird.
Think I will take it for a test run tonight before the work run in the morning.
If there's no dv (or a broken one), the turbo pressue will be venting and therefore the turbo will have zero boost (hence not working). You would hear a constant hissing as the boost pressure is always being released like it should when you lift off the accelerator.
What was the reason for changing from a B to a D ?
The B is VERY weak and fails (mine did). There is a rubber diaphragm on the B version that splits after a while and you lose boost pressure. The D version uses a piston and is much stronger.
:drinking:
-
If there's no dv (or a broken one), the turbo pressue will be venting and therefore the turbo will have zero boost (hence not working). You would hear a constant hissing as the boost pressure is always being released like it should when you lift off the accelerator.
Well now you mention it - "constant hissing", Yes, thought that was the Turbo spinning up...
And no "push in the back" when the turbo comes in. Just thought the engine was really smooth for a turbo. Used to get a real kick when the KN-TT came on song, but kind of expected that.
-
Test drive over.
Car transformed.
You can now tell the car has a turbo. Can also understand why you guys fit WALK kits.
Truly amazed by the difference. Thought it was quick before.
Just wonder what happened to the rest of it.
-
Test drive over.
Car transformed.
You can now tell the car has a turbo. Can also understand why you guys fit WALK kits.
Truly amazed by the difference. Thought it was quick before.
Just wonder what happened to the rest of it.
OMG you drove around with no DV/Broken dv, and never thought the car was slow for a GTI :signLOL:
-
Test drive over.
Car transformed.
You can now tell the car has a turbo. Can also understand why you guys fit WALK kits.
Truly amazed by the difference. Thought it was quick before.
Just wonder what happened to the rest of it.
LOL, wow, have you had the car from new ?
-
My Etka lists 06F 145 710 G for my car by the way, so is this a modified version of the D ?
-
How hard was it to fit the DV? Tools required?
Cheers
-
My Etka lists 06F 145 710 G for my car by the way, so is this a modified version of the D ?
"G" is a newer revision.
-
so would be ever better to go fior that one then ?
is it worth only replacing if theres a problem
-
OK
Hat the car for 6 months now, came from a new V8 Cayenne S Twin Turbo. Some tw@t stole and burt it out, Still fighting with insurance company over valuation GAP ins etc as big 4x4 value drop through the floor as soon as the roll out of the show room.
So,
GTI fit the bill price wise and a go anywhere car. Also, all I could afford after the above (had to pay balance of finance off before any settlement from GAP - be aware anyone with GAP ins)
Yes, thought GTI was a spirited Golf. Small car with a 2.0L engine, but nothing "special". Found that nearly all TDi's could easily pull away from me, traffic lights motorway etc.
Wife has a 207 GTI CC - think it is a 1.6 Turbo and it goes like stink. You really feel the turbo come on song. Bit of an all or nothing, compared to to KN which was amazingly fast and soooooooooo smooth with little or no turbo lag.
Read about all the DV versions, type "D" seems to be the one that has stayed the course. The "G" has been dropped for the "D" so I think this is still the one to get. Some rate it over the Forge as it requires no maintenance.
Fitting - this is another thing I am loving about the Golf. Could have easily left school to be a mechanic. Love working on cars & bikes, always have. But as some of you will recognise as you get older, company cars, etc, you stop doing some of the things you love. The golf makes me feel like a teenager again.
Fitting is quite easy. Remove OSF wheel and front of the wheel arch liner - the bit with the vent for the brakes (you will know it when you see it).
Once removed the DV is just behind the inner wing. The photograph in the first post will help you recognise the location. It is fastened on by three 5mm alan bolts. They are a little awkward to get to but not that bad. I have a Halfords Micro Pro socket set - about £30 if not in one of the 1/2 price sales. It is the best bit of kit I have ever bought, for just over a tenner and the instant replacement of broken bits for the pro range can't be beaten.
The kit has all the adapters in it to remove the wheel arch liner and the alan bolts.
Use a bit of thread lock before refitting.
All in all took about one hour from start to finish.
Hope this helps.
The main reason for the post was a worry that the bits had disintegrated and would somehow reach the internals of the turbo with disastrous consequences....
Thanks again for all your help....
-
How hard was it to fit the DV? Tools required?
Cheers
Possibly a better picture of the location. Taken from inside the front wheel arch.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1003.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf153%2Fgawthorpe%2FDV%2F589.jpg&hash=892558801d4f1f5d48587246600b8dcd0110548d)
-
So with your new found power, do you think you will map her?
One of the big mags had a cupra as a long termer and they commented on how that was reeling in their cayenne turbo down the straights, so a mapped GTI should be able to give you back some of the oomph you miss from your porka.
All the best with fighting the insurance company. :happy2:
-
So with your new found power, do you think you will map her?
One of the big mags had a cupra as a long termer and they commented on how that was reeling in their cayenne turbo down the straights, so a mapped GTI should be able to give you back some of the oomph you miss from your porka.
All the best with fighting the insurance company. :happy2:
To be honest I would love to map the car, but insurance is a sore point at the moment. Ins Companies don't take kindly to a £70k plus claim. Been inspected for fraud, interviewed under caution etc etc. Been made to Feel like a real criminal. Finally got the FOS on my side, which has got things moving.
The insurance renewal was more for the GTI than the KN!!!!
Think any performance mods in the near future would make the car un-insurable for me.
But as I have posted before - I am "usually" not a spirited driver. I like a nice comfortable car with a nice bit of poke. The KN was a childhood promise to own a porker before I was 40. The KN is the only one you can fit a Labrador in the back.
I do like the Golf, think I am going to like it a whole lot more from now on. :smiley:
-
nc35, is that the position of the DV on a standard GTi, or Ed30?
-
nc35, is that the position of the DV on a standard GTi, or Ed30?
thats standard Gti, ED30 is up front near radiator on front of engine
-
thats standard Gti, ED30 is up front near radiator on front of engine
Does this make it considerably easier to do?
I'm getting deja vu here, has someone written a guide about this on the forum?
-
you dont need to take the whole wheel liner out, just put it on axel stands and work under the car, usually takes me about 20 mins to swap from start to finish.
I cant believe your car wouldnt come with the diaphram (dunno how to spell) the spring is still on the piston in your pics, theres no way that would have stayed on. its gone missing somewhere (probably flown out of your exhaust on fire :laugh:) but if the cars pulling as it should then all should be back to normal. :smiley:
Also if the car is only 6 months old then whys it been fitted with the old type DV?? :confused:
-
thats standard Gti, ED30 is up front near radiator on front of engine
Does this make it considerably easier to do?
I'm getting deja vu here, has someone written a guide about this on the forum?
Yea it's alot easier than the normal GTi, if you lift the bonnet you will see it on the front of the engine
-
I change a LOT of these at the workshop, its common for the top part of the DV to fall off when removing them and they land somewhere you cant see them/find them. I dropped one last week and it took 20+ mins to find with a torch and mirror!
Without the top part the inside of what is left of the DV in the pic would have been a lot more dirty and the spring would have dissapeared by now. Also without the upper part of the DV missing for 6+ months you would have had a fault code stored by now.
I guess that the original (missing) part was probably torn and the reason for the transformation is the new valve holds boost. Without the valve (or with one jammed open) the GTi's drive like really badly, a 1200kg car with around 132HP that is broken. ( I dyno tested an Audi A4 last week with a DV that was jammed open and it made 132hp and 197 with a new DV)
-
Also if the car is only 6 months old then whys it been fitted with the old type DV?? :confused:
Sorry car is a 55 plate. Early DSG with all the nice bits the "bean counters" removed from standard on the later cars.
Working in Pontefract today, so chance for a good run.
The car has never driven like this before.
100 appears really quck (long drive way officer) and always appears willing.
For the first time I can feel when the turbo comes in, hardly any lag. Also the constant hiss from the turbo has gone. Even let the window down in the tunnels in the Leeds inner ring road, to double check.
Such a different car to drive.
-
now go and get it mapped...... :jumping:
-
+1, think of the difference from before you replaced the DV to now, a remap will give you the same chunk of power ontop. :party:
-
you dont need to take the whole wheel liner out, just put it on axel stands and work under the car, usually takes me about 20 mins to swap from start to finish.
I cant believe your car wouldnt come with the diaphram (dunno how to spell) the spring is still on the piston in your pics, theres no way that would have stayed on. its gone missing somewhere (probably flown out of your exhaust on fire :laugh:) but if the cars pulling as it should then all should be back to normal. :smiley:
Also if the car is only 6 months old then whys it been fitted with the old type DV?? :confused:
ha ha it took you a full day 1st time :laugh:
-
:P :P :P
true!! :grin:
once you have done it once you know what your doing!
-
Had my revision D fitted today to replace the C. No visible damage, car pulls better for sure.
-
For those that have theirs replaced at an indie or dealer, how much are you paying?
-
Hi.I have an 07 plate ED30.What DV will it have on it?
-
My 07 ED30 had version C fitted.
-
My 07 ED30 had version C fitted.
Cheers mate.Would it be worth changing then?
-
Yep :happy2:
-
Cheers mate.Do we have a part number?
-
S06H145710D
-
£47 with the VAT IIRC.
-
you dont need to take the whole wheel liner out, just put it on axel stands and work under the car, usually takes me about 20 mins to swap from start to finish.
Do you reckon it's safe to do it with the standard jack (from the boot) but removing the wheel liner and not working under the car?
Got the DV but don't particularly want to buy axel stands etc.
-
I would never work on a car with those suicide jacks, even changing a wheel is a dodgy experience on those things.
Never work under a car without axle stands IMO, altho im guilty of working under cars with a normal jack, but never those scissor things... EVER!
-
Right, well at £20 I guess there's no point taking the risk.
-
They don't call 'em widowmakers for no reason.
-
Yeah, I'm not ready for pain of that magnitude yet :scared:
-
ive had a few cars ive worked on fall on the scissor jack! :scared: :scared: would never ever get under it without stands.
-
Has anyone got the part number for 'D' version.
Iain
-
its already in this thred about 3 times! :confused: :signLOL:
-
I was unimpressed with the performance of my 55 plate GTI, went stage 1, bit better but still nothing special, went ITG and TBE Milltek and stage 2, still not on fire, but did pull pretty hard at higher cruising speeds on the motorway, so went to have a HPFP fitted on Tuesday and a stage 2+ map, thought, might as well change the Diverter valve on sunday (diy axle stands from underneath about 1.5 hours slow and careful) When I pulled the valve, diapraghm was ripped in about 3 places :surprised: then drove the car to get the HFPF fitted - Oh my god, what a power house with all the mods and a D type valve, but did get fuel cut when pulling about 3.5k revs in a high gear, after the HPFP, well the RR showed 275BHP 315 lbft and the car is insanely fast, can't believe I was modding it all the time with a cream crackered DV!!!! For £50 should be first thing you change!
-
I would never work on a car with those suicide jacks, even changing a wheel is a dodgy experience on those things.
Never work under a car without axle stands IMO, altho im guilty of working under cars with a normal jack, but never those scissor things... EVER!
Presumably a 1 1/2 tonne trolley jack is sufficient?
-
Would still be inclined to spend £20 on some stands...
Cheapo trolley jacks seem to slowly lower the car as you work on it. But one hell of a lot better than the suicide jacks.
-
Presumably a 1 1/2 tonne trolley jack is sufficient?
Why not just by a set of axle stands?
-
I was unimpressed with the performance of my 55 plate GTI, went stage 1, bit better but still nothing special, went ITG and TBE Milltek and stage 2, still not on fire, but did pull pretty hard at higher cruising speeds on the motorway, so went to have a HPFP fitted on Tuesday and a stage 2+ map, thought, might as well change the Diverter valve on sunday (diy axle stands from underneath about 1.5 hours slow and careful) When I pulled the valve, diapraghm was ripped in about 3 places :surprised: then drove the car to get the HFPF fitted - Oh my god, what a power house with all the mods and a D type valve, but did get fuel cut when pulling about 3.5k revs in a high gear, after the HPFP, well the RR showed 275BHP 315 lbft and the car is insanely fast, can't believe I was modding it all the time with a cream crackered DV!!!! For £50 should be first thing you change!
:surprised: :grin: :grin: :signLOL:
at least your at full health now!
-
Think there should be a sticky somewhere regarding service intervals what is due when and a pointer for anyone with a older GTI to replace the DV to revision D
Best £50 (Some dealers will sell for closer to £40) you can spend.
-
Would still be inclined to spend £20 on some stands...
Cheapo trolley jacks seem to slowly lower the car as you work on it. But one hell of a lot better than the suicide jacks.
Yep, got a set with axel stands, wheel chocks etc. Just wanted to make sure the 1 1/2 tonne jack was sufficient, most of the ones I have seen are 2 tonne.
Anyway, bought it now so I'm sure it'll be fine.
-
Sorry - yep 1 1/2 tonne should be fine.
You are only lifting one corner of the the car, not the whole car.
-
Fitting is quite easy. Remove NSF wheel and front of the wheel arch liner - the bit with the vent for the brakes (you will know it when you see it).
Just an important little point. I know the near side as being the side nearest the kerb. On a right hand drive car you'll need to take off the drivers side front wheel etc.
-
Oops
drivers side OSF wheel.
-
Haha, I was panicking for a while wondering where the f*ck it was!
:signLOL:
-
Been reading the thread and got me thinkin too,mine (57 ed30 mapped) hisses aswell as the turbo is building up but I still get a lot of pull and a noticeable hiss when I release the accelerator could mine be split or is it natural for the noise, no it's already been touched on in the thread but never driven turbo before this one
-
Been reading the thread and got me thinkin too,mine (57 ed30 mapped) hisses aswell as the turbo is building up but I still get a lot of pull and a noticeable hiss when I release the accelerator could mine be split or is it natural for the noise, no it's already been touched on in the thread but never driven turbo before this one
Eddy30, this is normal. Welcome to the world of turbocharged cars.
-
Can anyone else confirm whether it would be a waste of time replacing a dump valve on an ED30???
-
Thanks for the reply mate,slight bit of dissapoomtment though hehe was maybe hoping it wasn't runnin at full strength cos it's bloody fast as it is! Hehe. Interested in the reply to your question too
-
Eddy on another point, if you would like the noise louder - try fitting a less restrictive intake system.
For example the ITG Maxogen Intake kit, which is basically a bit pipework and then an ITG filter on the end. Provides less air flow restriction and therefore can provide power increases - marginal nonetheless.
-
Glad I read this! I've just had my GTi serviced and my mate noticed one of the intercooler pipes was split, different car now it's been replaced, but might have this checked out too.
What do you guys think of just putting a Forge DV on? This is my first turbo car too, so no idea what the difference is between a stock DV and an after market 1. Also can somebody tell me the price of a forge DV and I noticed you might need to service it, what does this involve?
No more questions! :ashamed:
-
Stock dv £40ish after discount. Forge ~£150. Search the forum or Forge web site for more info.
No advantage with the forge as I can tell until you get to the higher stages of tuning. Stage 2+ etc.
So for the money and ease of fitting IMO everyone should be looking to replace their DV if they have any doubts.
-
What was the reason for changing from a B to a D ?
The B is VERY weak and fails (mine did). There is a rubber diaphragm on the B version that splits after a while and you lose boost pressure. The D version uses a piston and is much stronger.
:drinking:
I think there needs to be some clarity on the part numbers here.
06F 145 710 B had a black diaphragm > this was replaced by 06F 145 710 C which had an orange diaphragm > and these were all ultimately replaced by 06F 145 710 G (dunno what difference is). These were all designed for the original 2.0 TFSI engine (in the Mk5 GTI, with the rubber timing belt). These are all now NLA (no longer available) - and are replaced by the current . . . . .
06H 145 710 D. Note the crucial bit, the H in the first three digits - this (a piston design rather than a diaphragm) was originally designed for the newer chain driven 2.0 TSI/TFSI as used in the Mk6 GTI (and others) - but has been decreed by VWAG as backwards compatible with earlier engines including our belt-driven donkeys.
This latter 06H variant is now all you can get - even if you were to specifically ask your stealer for say the 06F 145 710 G, you would not be supplied with this G version. If someone was particularly keen on a G version, then the only legit way of getting one would be from either an independent, or places like GSF or ECP.
EDIT: for cr@p spelling & clarity
-
My Etka lists 06F 145 710 G for my car by the way, so is this a modified version of the D ?
Your ETKA needs updating. :wink:
-
My Etka lists 06F 145 710 G for my car by the way, so is this a modified version of the D ?
"G" is a newer revision.
But the G version has been superceeded by the D version - albeit 06H prefix. :P
-
so would be ever better to go fior that one then ?
is it worth only replacing if theres a problem
If you are competent enough to change it yourself - then go ahead, they are fairly cheap.
However, as usual - there is quite a bit of 'scare-mongering' regarding DVs - I've got a remapped 2006 GTI with nigh-on 40k on the clock - and my original C version is in perfect condition. Thoroughly inspected the diaphragm under light - and it is as fresh as the day it was made.
And don't forget - the diaphragm versions can react much faster than the piston versions. :wink:
ETTO and all that, though . . . .
-
And don't forget - the diaphragm versions can react much faster than the piston versions. :wink:
.
Do you mean the C DV will react quicker the the D DV?
Why is that? I can understand why the OEM DVs react more quickly than the Forge DV but why would there be a difference between OEM DVs?
-
I think he means vacuum piston ones, the VAG piston one is electronic and thus reacts as fast as the diaphragm.
-
I think he means vacuum piston ones, the VAG piston one is electronic and thus reacts as fast as the diaphragm.
Yep thats what I understand hence the question :wink:
-
And don't forget - the diaphragm versions can react much faster than the piston versions. :wink:
.
Do you mean the C DV will react quicker the the D DV?
Marginally - yes.
Why is that? I can understand why the OEM DVs react more quickly than the Forge DV but why would there be a difference between OEM DVs?
Pistons have more friction to deal with when sliding up and down their 'bore'. Diaphragms have no such friction to deal with.
-
I think he means vacuum piston ones, the VAG piston one is electronic and thus reacts as fast as the diaphragm.
Not quite - all the VAG ones (diagphragm and piston), as well as aftermarket ones such as Forge are all 2-way electronically controlled. There is no vacuum actuation on any 2.0 TFSI valve.
But I'm probably being a tad pedantic - I doubt anyone could actually tell the difference between the two OEM versions (providing they were both functioning A1). :smiley:
EDIT: for cr@p spelling
-
While the forge valve does maintain the electronic solenoid it does also require vacuum from the throttle plate for recirculating boost. So it uses a mix of both :happy2:
-
While the forge valve does maintain the electronic solenoid it does also require vacuum from the throttle plate for recirculating boost. So it uses a mix of both :happy2:
Yes - all the valves - Forge and OEM use a vaccum for sensing purposes - the valves are still actuated electronically.
-
Yes - all the valves - Forge and OEM use a vaccum for sensing purposes - the valves are still actuated electronically.
I'm pretty sure the Forge valve is not able to actuate electronically and it requires vacuum. We discussed this here a little while while ago:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13508.0.html
There was a thread on vortex which lead me into understanding the forge valve is not electronically actuated here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3336171
Vortex seems to be down at the moment so have a look at it later if you can. I will be interested to hear your input.
-
Yes - all the valves - Forge and OEM use a vaccum for sensing purposes - the valves are still actuated electronically.
I'm pretty sure the Forge valve is not able to actuate electronically and it requires vacuum. We discussed this here a little while while ago:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13508.0.html
There was a thread on vortex which lead me into understanding the forge valve is not electronically actuated here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3336171
Vortex seems to be down at the moment so have a look at it later if you can. I will be interested to hear your input.
Firstly - don't believe everything on Vortex . . .
Back to the Forge - I've looked at their website - http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=260306&product=FMFSITVR - and yes, it does say theirs is vacuum actuated. However, something doesn't quite ring true. I am lead to believe that the OEM valves rely on 2-way ECU control (for both 'sensing' and 'actuation') - however, this appears not to be the case (as is evident from the OP with the knackerd DV). But you can't have an OEM valve being electronically operated, and an afterarket one being mechanically operated - and not have either a CEL or a DTC stored.
Jury still out . . .
EDIT: for cr@p spelling
-
Moderators/Admins - can this thread be moved to the Technical Workshop section - http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/board,35.0.html ??