MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: mackit on May 05, 2010, 10:46:22 pm
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Hi Guys,
My insurance is up for renewal next month and i am thinking about modifying my car in sync with my insurance renewal. My indicative increased premium cost seems quite reasonable so that should not be a problem.
Based on the advice and help i have had from JKM and Superchips i have decided that i will use them for any modifications.
What i'm thinking of doing is as follows:
1) JKM K04 Stage 1.1 which includes:
i) Superchips remap stage 1
ii) Milltek cat back
iii) Panel filter upgrade
2) Audi S3 Intercooler
I am pretty happy with the suspension on my ED30 so would like to see how the car manages the extra power moving forward. I acknowledge that the standard brakes may not be up to the task of the increased performance but i would like to see how the car copes with standard brakes. I would describe my use of the car as majority fast road use rather than track use. Thus, there are certain mods i do not feel are necessary.
Does anyone have any views on these mods? Would anyone recommend anything extra or perhaps omit something?
There is mention of changing the diverter valve due to increased boost but i am unsure if this is necessary for a stage 1 increase. There is also the mention of the upgraded fuel pump but again i think this may be for cars pushing out high BHP figures? Feedback welcome and appreciated.
Hope you guys can help. :jumpmove:
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Budget for a clutch upgrade as well....... :confused:
See here
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14230.0.html (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14230.0.html)
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i say fit the Anti roll bars as well if you are keeping your suspension standard. they will make a hge improvment in cornering grip whilst not affecting the ride comfort.. other than that id say your list os spot on for what you want
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The diverter valve is worth changing to a revision D OEM piston version from the diaphragm version. The diaphragm version is prone to splitting even on stock cars. I've even seen them go on the 1.4TSi cars. :surprised:
i) Superchips remap - are you wanting the flexibility of being able to return the car to stock via the Bluefin module or just going for the map? A superchips map wouldn't be my first or second choice, but if you aren't seeking ultimate performance and you are simply wanting a decent smooth map then it will be fine. :happy2:
ii) Milltek Catback - will not see you get much of a power increase, it is more for looks. The real power comes from the downpipe and sports cat section.
iii) Panel filter - something like an ITG or Pipercross panel filter will give you a moderate power increase, but the main power would come from intakes such as ITG, EVOM's or Forge Twintake.
2) S3 intercooler - this is another decent upgrade for the money, but for a better return you could go for either a THS or Forge Twintercooler version.
Many people overlook the important upgrades like brakes and suspension, but you will realise that with the extra power you'll need extra stopping power and a tighter suspension to cope with it all. The modifying path can be as long or as short as you want it to be, but generally speaking whenever you increase the capability of one element of a car, you will invariably find a weak link further along the chain that needs upgrading. :happy2:
HTH.
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Budget for a clutch upgrade as well....... :confused:
See here
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14230.0.html (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14230.0.html)
Sorry to hear this. Surely if the clutch is on the way out due to the increased load from the remap then Superchips would cover this under their warranty scheme??? Or is your car now out of manufacturer warranty and thus not covered by Superchips?
Also, i have not heard of any others going so is this as 1 in 10 or a 1 in 100 issue? :confused:
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The diverter valve is worth changing to a revision D OEM piston version from the diaphragm version. The diaphragm version is prone to splitting even on stock cars. I've even seen them go on the 1.4TSi cars. :surprised:
i) Superchips remap - are you wanting the flexibility of being able to return the car to stock via the Bluefin module or just going for the map? A superchips map wouldn't be my first or second choice, but if you aren't seeking ultimate performance and you are simply wanting a decent smooth map then it will be fine. :happy2:
ii) Milltek Catback - will not see you get much of a power increase, it is more for looks. The real power comes from the downpipe and sports cat section.
iii) Panel filter - something like an ITG or Pipercross panel filter will give you a moderate power increase, but the main power would come from intakes such as ITG, EVOM's or Forge Twintake.
2) S3 intercooler - this is another decent upgrade for the money, but for a better return you could go for either a THS or Forge Twintercooler version.
Many people overlook the important upgrades like brakes and suspension, but you will realise that with the extra power you'll need extra stopping power and a tighter suspension to cope with it all. The modifying path can be as long or as short as you want it to be, but generally speaking whenever you increase the capability of one element of a car, you will invariably find a weak link further along the chain that needs upgrading. :happy2:
HTH.
Yes...Bluefin is a convenience for me to switch when i want. I know REVO and others can do this but there are extra costs involved with the REVO switch. From looking at the remaps available for the ED30, would it be fair to say that the Superchips remap is probably the least aggressive? The figures seem a smidgen lower and that is probably my preference. I know...what a wuss i am! :ashamed:
I'd prefer the torque to be limited even though i know i am talking to the wrong man on conservative figures. :wink: As mentioned, i am simply mod'ing for fast road use (where safe ofcourse) rather than a track.
Am i right in saying that the Milltek exhaust sits more flush with the car than the stock exhausts? Noticed it in the picture and it looked much better than stock. :confused:
I did look at the EVOMs and Forge intake systems but they seem quite extensive and come with the drawback of losing the engine cover to accomodate the piping. Is that correct? Unsure if i want to do that. If i was going for a stage 2 remap or beyond i think it may be a worthy upgrade.
I did look at the Forge intercooler. Basically £200 more but is it necessary for running a stage 1 remap? I thought the Audi S3 intercooler would suffice but i think i understand your point. For an extra £200 you get something far superior basically.
Also, when i contacted my insurance company they quoted me the same price for adding the Milltek, Intake and Intercooler or doing all that plus the Bluefin remap. :confused: How strange? :rolleye:
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I find the brakes woefully inadequate on a stock edition 30.
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I find the brakes woefully inadequate on a stock edition 30.
i have to say that i have never had a problem with them. i do go for a hard blast on country roads etc and normally use the gears a lot but only get fade after a real hardcore session (but i never push it over the limit of my abilities). maybe im a lucky one or something because all ive read on the forum since it began is that the standard brakes are crap! if its for road use only then i cant see why they may be an issue? im in the process of upgrading mine because i want to be able to track my car without having issues but on the road im running standard brakes with no problemos :happy2:
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sorry, and mackit, if your keen to go to the next stage but unsure i would say only get a remap. when i went stage 1 it was a revelation and i really enjoyed it, when i put the exhaust on i felt nothing. unless you are planning on putting a fuel pump and CAI then i wouldnt bother. get a remap and a panel filter if you really have to but i wouldnt bother wasting money on an exhaust unless you want massive gains. its a slippery slope though and once i had revo'ed my car i had a panel filter at the same time and loved it for a few months, then saved up for stage 2 and full exhaust and for me it didnt feel enough of a gain for the money i spent, however soon as i put the ITG and feul pump on i was amazed at teh power! :smiley:
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Like you said mate, the suspension on the standard ed30/gti is pretty good as standard so if you are happy with it dont change it. If you fancy a few chassis tweaks a WALK kit and ARBs would be be a good upgrade.
Also like someone mentioned if you are going for a bit more power a new recirc or Divertor valve should be fitted for reliability (oem revision D piston divertor valve can be had for £45 from Vw).
Also IMO brakes are the best Mod you can do on the mk5 so id make that high on your priority list.
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i have been running the diaphram DV for 40K and no probs, VWR advised me not to bother until i notice a dip. Been running Revo Stage 2+ for about 5K. when i decided to go 2+ i was going to get a forge valve but have been advised against fixing a non existent problem, a bit like the catch can :happy2:
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Thanks for this guys. Really useful advice. People's experience of their modding journey is invaluable for people like me starting off.
I did toy with the idea of just doing the remap. If i am honest i would admit the Milltek catback is a visual thing rather than anything else. :ashamed: I did it in on one of my previous cars, a Focus ST, and it looked spanking. :happy2:
However, i do believe that increasing the power significantly could benefit from an upgraded intercooler. Given the fact that we are in a relatively cool climate i guess the necessity may be less but still.
The DV is something i've just read about. One of those things i guess...as soon as someone says it will go you start to contemplate replacement. I fully appreciate that most people have never upgraded this and it runs fine.
Oh man....what to do??? :rolleye:
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^^^^
Lots of good answers for you here, mackit.
Re some of the points already made above:
- Revo: If you're using JKM (as I do and think very highly of them) you won't need the extra Select switch, particularly as you won't know what you're doing at this time (like me!). It's best to let Jim/Keith at JKM diagnose your car and advise and adjust the T/B/F settings for you accordingly.
- Milltek: You need the high-flow turbo-back version if you want to unlock your remap's potential.
- Brakes: Nothing badly wrong with the standard brakes but a good aftermarket kit will greatly improve the feel of the brake pedal response and increase stopping power (more desirable when your car's performance is increased and when going faster).
- Intercooler: I think Jim would confirm that this is of more benefit (in the UK) after you've reached Stage2. The I/C will do more to better manage temperatures rather than add power etc - It's a good preventative and long term maintenance mod (and on my long list of mods still to do!).
- Air Intake: Can be added later but a high-flow tubular intake will further unlock your remap's power potential. I favour Forge's Twintake and have written a review here:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,9988.0.html
^ All only in my opinion of course.
If JKM are conveniently located for you I really wouldn't shop around - They have vast experience of the 2.0T FSI platform and are genuine enthusiasts who care. I drive 2hrs each way to use them.
HTH
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^^^^
Lots of good answers for you here, mackit.
Re some of the points already made above:
- Revo: If you're using JKM (as I do and think very highly of them) you won't need the extra Select switch, particularly as you won't know what you're doing at this time (like me!). It's best to let Jim/Keith at JKM diagnose your car and advise and adjust the T/B/F settings for you accordingly.
- Milltek: You need the high-flow turbo-back version if you want to unlock your remap's potential.
- Brakes: Nothing badly wrong with the standard brakes but a good aftermarket kit will greatly improve the feel of the brake pedal response and increase stopping power (more desirable when your car's performance is increased and when going faster).
- Intercooler: I think Jim would confirm that this is of more benefit (in the UK) after you've reached Stage2. The I/C will do more to better manage temperatures rather than add power etc - It's a good preventative and long term maintenance mod.
^ All only in my opinion of course.
If JKM are conveniently located for you I really wouldn't shop around - They have vast experience of the 2.0T FSI platform and are genuine enthusiasts who care. I drive 2hrs each way to use them.
HTH
Big help.
I'll speak to the guys as JKM. They are just over an hour away as i live in Surrey. Close enough i guess. Prices are the best i have seen.
Intercooler upgrade...yes..perhaps this is for people pushing out Stage2 and beyond figures. I think this winter most of us could have removed our blummin intercoolers. :jumping:
May just go for a simple remap and to cater for my glutany disease, a bit of Milltek porn at the back. :happy2:
Regarding the DV upgrade, i'll ask for their feedback.
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^^^^
Thanks for the Thank You, mate :drinking: - Always nice to know when you've helped.
I've revised/added something to my Reply #12 by the way.
You asked for help, but is it really the help you need? Here's a little word of warning:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi456.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq281%2Fpreeto_f07%2Ftop-10-most-overused-words_8.jpg&hash=1dfa0e985812e11c6704ca9150b5a094b170785d)
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:signLOL:
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hi and welcome :pomppomp: , good advice already but heres mine too :grin:
First off JKM are :happy2: , good hands so no worries there.
Get a before dyno plot before you touch anything too as a baseline.
Consider if this is going to be the end of your modding (realistically) , which I would suggest it isnt. So dont waste money on 'partial/ineffectual' mods
So hold off on the filter until you can afford a full replacement item (Twintake or ITG) +20bhp , panel gives little or no gains, stick with the OE aribox until then
Same with exhaust , either get the full Turbo Back Exhaust (TBE) or leave original , same principal gains are in full system not cat back (plus you have duplicated labour costs if you do it in stages)
S3 Ic i would suggest isnt required at stage 1 for your usage.
Consider the Forge Twintercooler as its good too and easily removeable, if you arent fitting it the labour is high for fitting an S3 cooler for limited gains
Brakes you 'can' live with but in reality they are marginal at best on a mapped ED30 dependent on your driving style.
Also consider good quality tyres depending on whats on just now
Id also be looking at uprated engine mounts , either just gearbox or all and a WALK kit. (see product review section)
(I assume you are a manual car? , in which case yes budget for a clutch if remapping....)
hth
John
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With the brakes, I find that they're great when braking hard from 50mph but anything above that speed and they are IMO inadequate.
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hi and welcome :pomppomp: , good advice already but heres mine too :grin:
First off JKM are :happy2: , good hands so no worries there.
Get a before dyno plot before you touch anything too as a baseline.
Consider if this is going to be the end of your modding (realistically) , which I would suggest it isnt. So dont waste money on 'partial/ineffectual' mods
So hold off on the filter until you can afford a full replacement item (Twintake or ITG) +20bhp , panel gives little or no gains, stick with the OE aribox until then
Same with exhaust , either get the full Turbo Back Exhaust (TBE) or leave original , same principal gains are in full system not cat back (plus you have duplicated labour costs if you do it in stages)
S3 Ic i would suggest isnt required at stage 1 for your usage.
Consider the Forge Twintercooler as its good too and easily removeable, if you arent fitting it the labour is high for fitting an S3 cooler for limited gains
Brakes you 'can' live with but in reality they are marginal at best on a mapped ED30 dependent on your driving style.
Also consider good quality tyres depending on whats on just now
Id also be looking at uprated engine mounts , either just gearbox or all and a WALK kit. (see product review section)
(I assume you are a manual car? , in which case yes budget for a clutch if remapping....)
hth
John
Hi John,
Mine is a DSG variant. I was toying with asking for a remap with the torque limited to 350NM but from speaking with a number of people, no one has had any problems. Appreciate that Scotta has recently experienced problems but i haven't heard of any others?
What are typical costs of an upgraded cluth including fitting? I see prices on JKM for the upgraded Sachs clutch is circa £550 but how much would fitting be on that?
Chris.
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What are typical costs of an upgraded cluth including fitting? I see prices on JKM for the upgraded Sachs clutch is circa £550 but how much would fitting be on that?
Chris.
....Best to ask Kate at JKM - She's always very helpful and it would give you a more accurate figure to allow for in the unfortunate future event.
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Why do people always insist on saying to do a full turbo back exhaust if you want gains from it. It is the restriction of the cat and the downpipe where gains are made, you will also get a deeper engine note with a larger downpipe.
Adding the cat back gives much more sound but very small power gains indeed. I know this as i did it this way as well and made only 2 hp from the cat bak which to be fair i didnt even notice on the road and could even have been just a result of variation between using the RRs on different days.
if you want more power gains, and a little bit more noise go for the downpipe. (upto £500)
if you want sound go for the cat back(upto 500)
if you want power gains and much more sound then you need a full turbo back exhaust. (upto £1000)
thats a lrage variation in cash for different results, you need to think what you want, as the £500 you cold potentially save could go on something else with god gains like anti roll bars and WALK etc
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^^^^
As Sy says: Planning your mods as far ahead as possible is best. Just like looking as far as possible ahead when driving, instead of the boot of the car just in front of you like most drivers do :stupid:.
ARB's are an extremely good cost-effective mod too. Slippery Slope! :evilgrin:
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Why do people always insist on saying to do a full turbo back exhaust if you want gains from it. It is the restriction of the cat and the downpipe where gains are made, you will also get a deeper engine note with a larger downpipe.
@vRSy :was that aimed at my comment? if so I had already agreed with you in that the cat back is of little purpose in power gains...
@mackit : ignore the clutch upgrades as you have DSG, only needed for manual.
a DSG remap is an option open to you, as well as increased oil change service intervals for the DSG oil which doesnt hurt and many people on here seem to do when remapping.
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What is the size of the front brakes on the GTi/ED30?
Is the JKM Big Brake front brakes advertised on the page below the ones you would find on the R32?
http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/tfsibrakes.htm
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Why do people always insist on saying to do a full turbo back exhaust if you want gains from it. It is the restriction of the cat and the downpipe where gains are made, you will also get a deeper engine note with a larger downpipe.
@vRSy :was that aimed at my comment? if so I had already agreed with you in that the cat back is of little purpose in power gains...
No mate, not aimed at you but just in gereral :drinking:.
It does seem that everytime someone says they are considering an exhaust or going stage 2 lot of people insist that a full TBE i s required, which isnt strictly true, and could potentially cost them twice the amount of money than it needed to.
I just wanted to let the OP know that it wasnt required to get the gains he wants and that he could save some money which im sure we all agree can only be a good thing :happy2:
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Is it right to say that fitting a hiflow sports cat and large bore downpipe in addition to the cat back system is redundant if no remap is done? So in essence would you obtain higher power figures by doing this but without any remap?
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TBH, if it were me, i wouldn't fit a performance downpipe and CAT without having a Remap to ensure fueling is correct and that the car is running sweet etc. Some people, me included got engine check lights after fitting the downpipe before getting the car mapped, however there are others who never got the light at all.
id say you would get gains from fitting the downpipe whilst retaining the standard map, but they wouldn't be anything to shout about, just what the ECU can try and adapt to.
from what you have said in post#1 id say not to other with the DP in your case just yet, as your not on some crazy HP hunt. Id say you should be able to hit 280+Hp on JKMs rollers with the chosen mods already, and that is a mighty powerful car, and id be looking into the ARBs, and god pads instead for the minute.
then at a later date you could order a downpipe, get it fitted at any local garage you want (mine charges £35 to change downpipes) and you then get superchips to send you the stage 2 map(£50) to your handset and install it there and then.
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Another :happy2: for JKM from here. I have been speaking to Kate over the last few weeks sorting out my rapid slide down the slippery slope. Placed my order today. Service has been fantastic and the prices are very competitive.