MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: SteveP on May 06, 2010, 11:54:12 pm
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We have a car on our ring trip running this fault: -
16471/P0087/000135 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure: Too Low
It's pulling back the power above 4000rpm at higher speed.
Any ideas??
A quick bit of logging following the guide on Ross Tech wiki shows the requested pressure isn't being meet about 4k rpm by upto 10bar.
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Not much help but same fault code on another vehicle on another forum was HPFP faulty!!
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Cam follower is the obvious one (and easiest to eliminate as a cause)
The more worn it is the higher the failure to reach requested rail pressure.
Stock fuel pump or HPFP? - could be the pump failing.
How is everything else? idle okay? Misfires?
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Need to know the following:
Engine type
mods
post the logs up ( or email them to me at: sales@pdtuning.com)
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Try this steve, read poverty's post >http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,9196.msg189073.html#msg189073
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It's a normal GTI with a stock pump running with Stage 2 code.
K&N panel in standard airbox.
Will check the follower first thing :happy2:
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Logs on the way PDT :notworthy:
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No log arrived?
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Should be now :smiley:
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Got the logs but dont show much, I have replied by email with some tips on logging and what I need to graph them correctly. Once I get them through I will check them over and send a reply to you :happy2:
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Thanks David :happy2:
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could be the sensor sitting on the side of the hpfp, known fault and apr recommended me changing it as part of error elimination.
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A quick test with a known good working low pressure fuel sensor "appears" to have remove the fault, so a replacement is currently being collected.
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A quick test with a known good working low pressure fuel sensor "appears" to have remove the fault, so a replacement is currently being collected.
they one on the hpfp?? :smiley:
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Interested to know the results of this mine is doing the same
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Having a similar problem on my revo stage 1 gti, Does anyone have the part number and rough price for the sensor?
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Sensor did not fix the issue, so more work needs to be done on our return to the UK.
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Sensor did not fix the issue, so more work needs to be done on our return to the UK.
That is a bummer...
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Yep the car is currently at a VW dealer we found in Belguim. They are looking after it until we collect it on the way back.
We have a few more things to check on the return when we collect the car.
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Did the owner have the option to switch it back to stock mode to see if problem still persisted??
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No not stock mode available otherwise that would have been the first step as I know this fault can be triggered if too much boost is requested. :happy2:
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^^^^
I'm afraid it's another example of the benefits of having a Revo map (or APR) - The option to change to 'stock' or change settings.
I feel really sorry for who's car this is - They must be really gutted not to get their car to the Ring.
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A quick test with a known good working low pressure fuel sensor "appears" to have remove the fault, so a replacement is currently being collected.
There was a TSB for this - did yours miss this?
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The sensor was not at fault in the end. The problem still persists after replacing it.
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I'm still edging towards my first diagnosis of a HPFP fault/failure.
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Well after having the MAF replaced I thought my troubles had gone away but alas the problem has come back again. Do you think its my car saying it needs an uprated HPFP? I took the car back to the dealers and its coming up with exactly the same fault code again.
According to the VAG diagnostics it could be either Camshaft lobe wear or fuel pump? I hope its not the camshaft as thats a 6 hour job and at dealer prices :surprised:
Any help would be appreciated, the dealers cant fit it in till 7th June so until then I dont want to use it! :sad1:
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Get the map taken off and see it the problem remains Mark.
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Get the map taken off and see it the problem remains Mark.
If it still remains what would that suggest? Still pump related?
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Yes I would think it then does point towards the pump or the high pressure sensor on the fuel rail.
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Yes I would think it then does point towards the pump or the high pressure sensor on the fuel rail.
Cheers Steve, I will try and get the map taken off and then try it. If the fault doesnt occur would that still indicate fuel pump?
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have you lost any water?
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have you lost any water?
Nope I think the water is still fine.
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Hi Mark,
I am tending to side with the HPFP theorists. Perhaps 'borrow' a pump? to test the theory out.
Need to do some logging to see if the LP pump is supplying the HP pump the correct quantity of fuel, if the LP is not keeping up, the HP side will suffer.
D
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Hi Mark,
I am tending to side with the HPFP theorists. Perhaps 'borrow' a pump? to test the theory out.
Need to do some logging to see if the LP pump is supplying the HP pump the correct quantity of fuel, if the LP is not keeping up, the HP side will suffer.
D
Cheers Dave, yeah im beginning to think its more fuel pump now.....anyone wanna let me borrow a pump! :happy2:
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Hi Mark,
I am tending to side with the HPFP theorists. Perhaps 'borrow' a pump? to test the theory out.
Need to do some logging to see if the LP pump is supplying the HP pump the correct quantity of fuel, if the LP is not keeping up, the HP side will suffer.
D
Cheers Dave, yeah im beginning to think its more fuel pump now.....anyone wanna let me borrow a pump! :happy2:
I think you need to do the logging first Mark, i can't remember the measuring blocks, but you need to make sure the LP side is feeding the HP side enough fuel to deliver what it needs.
D
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Hi Mark,
I am tending to side with the HPFP theorists. Perhaps 'borrow' a pump? to test the theory out.
Need to do some logging to see if the LP pump is supplying the HP pump the correct quantity of fuel, if the LP is not keeping up, the HP side will suffer.
D
Cheers Dave, yeah im beginning to think its more fuel pump now.....anyone wanna let me borrow a pump! :happy2:
I think you need to do the logging first Mark, i can't remember the measuring blocks, but you need to make sure the LP side is feeding the HP side enough fuel to deliver what it needs.
D
Agreed but I dont have VCDS!
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Not much help I'm afraid, but it's a pity you're not down south - I reckon the JKM guys would be able to find the fault with their huge experience of the 2.0T FSI.
Is it worth a phone call to Keith @ JKM: 0239 263 9933?
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Not much help I'm afraid, but it's a pity you're not down south - I reckon the JKM guys would be able to find the fault with their huge experience of the 2.0T FSI.
Is it worth a phone call to Keith @ JKM: 0239 263 9933?
Cheers RR, yeah I know if I was closer I would be there like a shot. When we were en-route to The Ring SteveP kindly called JKM for there input but really without seeing the car they couldnt diagnose the fault. Hopefully the map will be switched back to stock this week so I can try and isolate the problem that way. :happy2:
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i dont think you need a HPFP, my std pump never failed after 58k :smiley:
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sorry to hear the issues Mark.
from my perspective 10bar drop on req vs actual isnt unheard of on a K03 car , so whilst it is happening its not necessarily the problem. Im sure I have seen K03 cars drop more than this at 4krpm and not spit fault codes.
Does the req vs actual recover as the revs pass through 4k or continue to drop/ flatline at minus 10 bar??
for your remap whats the max requested? (110 /130)
Did you fit any new parts just before the 'ring that may just have pushed the fuel limit ?
Id err with stokeballon on a supply problem on the LP side... but what do i know :signLOL:
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sorry to hear the issues Mark.
from my perspective 10bar drop on req vs actual isnt unheard of on a K03 car , so whilst it is happening its not necessarily the problem. Im sure I have seen K03 cars drop more than this at 4krpm and not spit fault codes.
Does the req vs actual recover as the revs pass through 4k or continue to drop/ flatline at minus 10 bar??
for your remap whats the max requested? (110 /130)
Did you fit any new parts just before the 'ring that may just have pushed the fuel limit ?
Id err with stokeballon on a supply problem on the LP side... but what do i know :signLOL:
john_o thanks for your response, id love to say I could answer your questions but I dont know is the honest answer. When it goes into limp mode thats it, no boost nothing, eventually it does come back after 30secs-1min, but it appears it will only do this for a limited number of runs before going into proper limp mode. Switching off and back on obviously clears it temporarily but if I gas it it goes again. I have put the fault code into Google and most of the related links coming back suggest its the pump.
If I upgrade the fuel pump is it just the internals that make up the pump or is there more to it?
The only part which was changed prior to the ring trip was the clutch, a Sachs uprated one?
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I would also suggest you change your fuel filter if not already done as if it's clogged will give symptoms of of a bad LPFP and lean error codes.
Also, is your fuel tank petrol cap ok and properly screwed in tightly till it clicks?
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I would also suggest you change your fuel filter if not already done as if it's clogged will give symptoms of of a bad LPFP and lean error codes.
Also, is your fuel tank petrol cap ok and properly screwed in tightly till it clicks?
I will do that, yeah the petrol cap is always fully tightened!
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sorry to hear the issues Mark.
from my perspective 10bar drop on req vs actual isnt unheard of on a K03 car , so whilst it is happening its not necessarily the problem. Im sure I have seen K03 cars drop more than this at 4krpm and not spit fault codes.
Does the req vs actual recover as the revs pass through 4k or continue to drop/ flatline at minus 10 bar??
for your remap whats the max requested? (110 /130)
Did you fit any new parts just before the 'ring that may just have pushed the fuel limit ?
Id err with stokeballon on a supply problem on the LP side... but what do i know :signLOL:
It was requesting 110bar, but at times during the brief logging we conducted it was showing differences of upto 50bar (i.e. only reaching 60bar) :surprised:
IIRC this fault code has been seen on some bluefin cars where it was requesting too much boost, but the requested vs. actual was just over 10bar difference.
Mark if you want some help logging the LP and HP stuff again once the map is off then give me a call
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sorry to hear the issues Mark.
from my perspective 10bar drop on req vs actual isnt unheard of on a K03 car , so whilst it is happening its not necessarily the problem. Im sure I have seen K03 cars drop more than this at 4krpm and not spit fault codes.
Does the req vs actual recover as the revs pass through 4k or continue to drop/ flatline at minus 10 bar??
for your remap whats the max requested? (110 /130)
Did you fit any new parts just before the 'ring that may just have pushed the fuel limit ?
Id err with stokeballon on a supply problem on the LP side... but what do i know :signLOL:
It was requesting 110bar, but at times during the brief logging we conducted it was showing differences of upto 50bar (i.e. only reaching 60bar) :surprised:
IIRC this fault code has been seen on some bluefin cars where it was requesting too much boost, but the requested vs. actual was just over 10bar difference.
Mark if you want some help logging the LP and HP stuff again once the map is off then give me a call
Cheers Steve, the map is being taken off on Friday afternoon
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Hi did you get the the bottom of this fault my standard gti is doing the same and throwing up the same fault code.
Cheers
Paul
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I have been throwing this code over a period of 4 or 5 months... BUT it only happens when I start the car, it chokes out and dies even after restarting it multiple times.. Then eventually it will start like nothing happened.. My dealership has replaced:
All Four Injectors
2 Fuel pressure sensors
Cleaned my intake valves (walnut blasted)
my HPFP
The problem still persists.
My car: 2010 GTI with DSG and it fitted with Intake Downpipe and Intercooler, but NO TUNE..
Any help or logging instructions would be greatly appreciated!
Jm
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Did you get this problem solved mark?