MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: geordie56 on May 07, 2010, 01:17:44 pm
-
Has anyone tried the above items andwhat are they supoposed to do? Cheers. Heres a link.
-
people have been enquiring bout this for such a long time now, yet no one ever seems to stock them or be able to order them from whiteline. cheap mod though and id try it id it was available. try justin@ balancemotorsport
-
On the scooby's I think it corrects the bad over/understeer can't remember which but the scooby's lads swears by it.
Darren
-
perhaps ... WABS kit (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7982.0.html)
but i still dont think its actually available :sad1:
-
heres my attempt at explaining bumpsteer from what i have researched etc.
when the suspension is compressed or released, for example on bumpy roads when driving, the wheels will tend to toe out or in by a few mm. this gives the effect of the car wandering when driving over bumpy roads without your input(sort of like tramlining i guess)
From what i gather the whitelone bump steer kit, raises the angle of track control arm which reduces the bump steer effct giving you more control over the steering.
Feel free to correct me if im talking b0ll0x :laugh:
Simple, cheap and potentially good mod
-
I wanted a set to go with my WALK but Whiteline didn't have any in stock and the wait was too long for my liking which is a pity.
From what I have read it does help when its combined with WALK.
Alex
-
....
Oh no! Not another mod to add to the list I thought was finished.
TT wishbones first for me.
-
Problem is rose joints don't suit the UK climate, but there's no doubting it's ace.
-
rose joints??
i thought rose jointing is when you weld stuff together
-
Nope. Uber control, compared to ball joints but eat themselves when combined with road crap and salt.
-
You have any pictures of what one looks like as i can't picture what a rose joint would look like.
I've heard the term rose jointed suspension before just not seen them.
-
With a lockpin. No movement, no protection to the elements.... but epic win.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.acs-pro.de%2Fresources%2FCerbera%2FC0406a.jpg&hash=9a585340484f922b6f14a8f63c2593b80ad33f33)
-
now i can see what you mean, have seen this sort of thing before, just never realised that they were rose joints.
the normal track rod ends run the ball joint so would have a lot more play in it that. Do you anticipate quite a bit of improvement? and how wearable do you reckon this whiteline kit would be,
Maybe this is why it is taking so long to get released, as there are wear and tear issues???
-
With a lockpin. No movement, no protection to the elements.... but epic win.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.acs-pro.de%2Fresources%2FCerbera%2FC0406a.jpg&hash=9a585340484f922b6f14a8f63c2593b80ad33f33)
The Ohlins steering damper on my CBR is rose jointed - and hasn't deteriorated. Maybe when they are hidden under arches, and peeps get lazy . . . .
-
It wouldn't be so bad if there wasn't so much salt and crap on our roads over winter. Grotty location on the car that most people won't be bothered getting at to keep clean.
But yes, tighten things up a real treat.
I wonder if you could devise something to seal them, like some kind of boot?
-
heat shrink and grease :)
-
Excuse the pun, but time for a thread bump :laugh: :laugh:
Has anyone fitted these yet????
-
Are they actually available yet?
I will send an email to find out if there is stock when im at work tmoz.
I would have thought it was better to move the rod end to underneath rather than ontop. Esp on lowered cars. You want the arms to be as level as possible. I inverted the arms and fitted rose joints on the Ibiza. Worked very well and I never had any issues with the rose joints and the UK climate. I even ran rose jointed wishbones and the joints were fine after two years.
-
If you go for top quality rose joints you shouldnt have too many issues but......youll pay a lot of money and at the end of the day on the road??? Bit extreme perhaps.
It may give you quicker steering input and make it possible to swerve round all the pot holes! :signLOL:
-
Are they actually available yet?
I will send an email to find out if there is stock when im at work tmoz.
I would have thought it was better to move the rod end to underneath rather than ontop. Esp on lowered cars. You want the arms to be as level as possible. I inverted the arms and fitted rose joints on the Ibiza. Worked very well and I never had any issues with the rose joints and the UK climate. I even ran rose jointed wishbones and the joints were fine after two years.
A few places seem to be listing them as available now :happy2:
-
:popcornsoda:
-
I had Rose jointed bottom arms on my 206 and it made a huge different it did go from haveing a bit of understeer to haveing loads of oversteer but only if it let go but up to that point it felt awesome. :smiley:
-
These kits are still not available and are still going through testing in australia :surprised:
They need to hurry up!
-
Does the Golf suffer from bump steer, suspect lowered by more than 20mm at the front could be worthwhile. Perhaps spacering up the ball joint in some way would address the issue if it's a real problem
-
TT hubs is what we all need. They lower the ball joint for us :happy2:
-
But do the TT arms have changed steering knuckle position?
:wink:
"Original bump-steer was measured to be 8.4mm toe-out
@ 40mm compression and 4mm toe-in @ 40mm droop"
-
No they don't as the pivot points are the same, it would be interesting to measure up TT hubs.
I have a little more measuring to do then I will have approximate figs for how much the TT arms with TT adjustable ball joints add to the track and top/bottom figures for the tyre outside. I am finding the tyres after fitting TT arms can kiss outer edge of the inner arch. I might solve by buying two 50mm offset 8x18's and keep the ET45's for spare
-
How exactly does Bump Steer manifest itself??
-
it repositions steering rack ends to prevent outside wheel steering itself outwards when suspension is compressed (heavy cornering). VW engineered a lot of bump steer into the golf on purpose.
when the suspension is compressed due to the axis of the suspension travel the rack end s affectively shortened which steers the car without turning the wheel if you get what i mean.
the bump steer kit heightens the steering rack end to give a more linear suspension axis
-
But how is Bump Steer felt everyday whilst driving? I understand the principle of Bump Steer, and what this kit does mechanical... just not sure actually what difference it will make.
-
im not fitting mine till the bad weather has gone as the salt will wear the rose joints. I'm looking forward to trying it
-
im not fitting mine till the bad weather has gone as the salt will wear the rose joints. I'm looking forward to trying it
Did you manage to fit those?
Paul
-
They're still gritting the roads where I live so not yet! Was hopin to have fitted it by now.
-
Has anyone independant of Whiteline measured the bumpsteer on a GTI? The amount of bumpsteer that Whiteline claim the car has is staggering, and I'd expect the car to be a pig to drive with such a massive about of bumpsteer. Having played with the bumpsteer on track cars with adjustable steering arm height, 8mm change with 40mm suspension displacement is very obvious, with on the road characteristics making the car feel very unsettled over pot holes and similar road defects that only displace one side of the car's suspension.
I wonder how Whiteline measured the bumpsteer on the golf - fit a damper with the spring removed, support the chassis, and stroke the wheel with a jack?
-
I assumed that's how they would have measured it yeah. They must have some kind of jig as they mam all sorts of parts to alter geometry.
Ballance motorsport told me 8mm bump steer and said it was more worthwhile than Changing the ARBs as it was so bad as standard.
-
^^^^
If it's so bad, how come no-one ever complains about it :confused:
-
^^^^
If it's so bad, how come no-one ever complains about it :confused:
I'm similarly cynical. Considering the geometry of the GTI is fundamentally the same as some of the softer sprung models which allow the wheel to travel much further for a given bump, you'd half expect the lesser models to veer off the road at the first sign of a bump!
8mm of toe is about 1 degree, so pretty significant.
-
No, 8 mm (with an 18" wheel) isn't 1°. It's just about 20 minutes.
The question is does a stock height GTI have benefits from the BSK or does a lowered GTI benefit?
-
No, 8 mm (with an 18" wheel) isn't 1°. It's just about 20 minutes.
The question is does a stock height GTI have benefits from the BSK or does a lowered GTI benefit?
arcsin(8/457.2)= ~1deg?
Have I had a very dim moment?
As for the stock height v's lowered question, without the bumpsteer curve for both rod-end heights v's ride height, I agree it's impossible to know if the kit will do anything to assist a stock or lowered vehicle.
-
^^^^
If it's so bad, how come no-one ever complains about it :confused:
Cos it's not someone many people know a out or investigate. How many people know about caster before the WALK came out and now everyone loves it
People fit coils overs and expect the car to handle as good as it can. It these little changes add up
The GTI has more bump steer than a TT or S3 and they feel better (apparently)
Everyone seems to rate the WALK myself included so I reckon whiteline know what they're talking about And the BSK is a cheap mod so worth a go IMO.
-
^^^^
I'm not suggesting that Whiteline's Bump Steer isn't worthwhile but just questioning and challenging it. It's all part of assessment :happy2:
-
The GTI has more bump steer than a TT or S3 and they feel better (apparently)
Isn't the S3 geo the same as the GTI, just aluminium alloy instead of cast steel?
-
^^^^
If it's so bad, how come no-one ever complains about it :confused:
. How many people know about caster before the WALK came out and now everyone loves it
Everyone seems to rate the WALK myself included so I reckon whiteline know what they're talking about And the BSK is a cheap mod so worth a go IMO.
I did :P i also know all about KPI and camber, but then i did spend 5 yrs learning my trade, now they do it in 12 months, its not right
back on topic, rose joints are commonly used on track cars to A, keep a tight feel to the steering feedback and B to pervent tramlining effects (bump steer) so basiclly there is nothing new about this kit, its used many times over on the track week in week out and has done for decades
the thing is (and this goes for any mod) once you have spent your money buying it, then maybe paying to have it fitted you will always see some benefits as you wanna justify the spend, even if the benefits are very small
-
the thing is (and this goes for any mod) once you have spent your money buying it, then maybe paying to have it fitted you will always see some benefits as you wanna justify the spend, even if the benefits are very small
....So very true! :happy2:
-
If the bump steer is as bad on the mk5 as they would have you believe then I can see the principles and benefits of the BSK and would probably give it a try for the money tbh, sadly I can't ignore the engineer inside me which knows that the exposed rose joints and our climate mixed with 6 months of road salt are just asking for trouble...
-
No, 8 mm (with an 18" wheel) isn't 1°. It's just about 20 minutes.
arcsin(8/457.2)= ~1deg?
Have I had a very dim moment?
Pardon me, I was wrong and you were right !! :ashamed: :ashamed: :ashamed:
:drinking:
Of course S3 geo ( = Passat ) is the same. TT geo isn't.
Beddie, the current BSK is sealed:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fh456%2Felbowsg450x%2F28c48973.jpg&hash=d86d3d6decf75a66c47a1b92dff13a54c8de47d3)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fh456%2Felbowsg450x%2Fe217a75c.jpg&hash=36b0762bdeba895db79199b2261b26a28f1cdafb)
-
I'm going to run mine in the summer and re fit the old track rod ends for when the bad weather and road salt comes. I rarely drive my car in the winter anyway