MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: geordie56 on May 13, 2010, 10:04:07 pm
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Hi, i am getting the H&R arbs and just want to know the holes nearer to the outside or nearer to the inside which makes it stiffer? And is it the same for both the front and the rear? Cheers.
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inner holes are stiffer ones. its like using a lever, the longer it is the easier to lift or bend
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the hole at the end of the bar is the softer setting F&R :smiley:
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I would like to know the same thing! Im literally in the middle of fitting these myself. Mine were a second hand set and I could clearly see the ones previously used were the ones closest the end
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Spot on cheers for your help guys!
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You're all wrong. The bolt hole which is the FURTHEST away from the pivot is the 'stiffest' setting. Search for the Whiteline adjustable ARB pdfs . . . .
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Balls!!
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i spke to eibach before adjusting mine and they said the opposite to you. anyone go the link to the whitleine pdf, i cant be arsed searching lol
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i spke to eibach before adjusting mine and they said the opposite to you. anyone go the link to the whitleine pdf, i cant be arsed searching lol
Think about the length of lever needed to undo f-ing tight wheel bolts. With a short 12" bar, you probably won't be able to undo them - but with a 30" breaker bar, they will be easy.
At the end of the day - they are ANTI-roll bars, and use a simple 'lever principle' to counteract differential torque (twisting force) along the length of the ARB. So the bolt hole closest to the centre-line of the ARB will be less able to cope with the torque than the bolt hole furthest away.
www.whiteline.com.au/vehicle_swaybars.php is a starter for 10.
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i spke to eibach before adjusting mine and they said the opposite to you. anyone go the link to the whitleine pdf, i cant be arsed searching lol
Think about the length of lever needed to undo f-ing tight wheel bolts. With a short 12" bar, you probably won't be able to undo them - but with a 30" breaker bar, they will be easy.
that to me backs up what myself and everyone else have said by using the inner hole, you have less 'leverage' from the bolt to the centre line so it will roll less as its harder to bend.
If you use theouter hole the 'lever' is longer so it would 'bend so to speak' easier and thus roll more.
I stand to be corrected, no one is right all the time, but the above makes sense to me, eibach also confirmed it as have others. ill have a look through the PDF after i pick the wife up from work
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I'm still thinking the inner hole will make things tighter. :s
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thatst the way I saw it, the outer hole gives a larger lever so can bend the bar so give some roll, inner hole less leverage can't bend the bar so less roll :smiley:
could be wrong but I did ask quite a few people, one with vast racing experience :wink:, and was told by everyone the outer hole is softest setting
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the further out the hole is the less of an effect the arb has!
So like others have said the inner hole is the stiffer setting!
(i could be wrong but that would mean all the setup work on race cars and running my own race cars for the last god knows how many years has been completely wrong!) :happy2:
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BUMP,
I'd like to know the outcome of this discussion :smiley:, so we know if we have our ARB's set where we think we have them :happy2:
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i spke to eibach before adjusting mine and they said the opposite to you. anyone go the link to the whitleine pdf, i cant be arsed searching lol
Think about the length of lever needed to undo f-ing tight wheel bolts. With a short 12" bar, you probably won't be able to undo them - but with a 30" breaker bar, they will be easy.
that to me backs up what myself and everyone else have said by using the inner hole, you have less 'leverage' from the bolt to the centre line so it will roll less as its harder to bend.
If you use theouter hole the 'lever' is longer so it would 'bend so to speak' easier and thus roll more.
Anti-roll bars work on counteracting torque reaction. IE, they are 'reactive' rather than 'proactive' - so you need to reverse your logic. If you have 'less leverage', then you simply have a less efficient, therefore less hard anti-roll bar.
I stand to be corrected, no one is right all the time, but the above makes sense to me, eibach also confirmed it as have others. ill have a look through the PDF after i pick the wife up from work
I can't scan my Whiteline docs (dead desktop puter), but they clearly state that the OUTER holes are for the hardest (ie stiffest) setting.
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I'm still thinking the inner hole will make things tighter. :s
Nope, otherway round. Simple laws of physics.
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the further out the hole is the less of an effect the arb has!
Sorry, but that is pure BS.
Go and tighten some wheel bolts with a windy gun on max setting. Then get a 30" breaker bar, and stand on the end tightening them further. Now get the weedy short wheelbrace out the boot and try undoing said wheel bolt.
So like others have said the inner hole is the stiffer setting!
(i could be wrong but that would mean all the setup work on race cars and running my own race cars for the last god knows how many years has been completely wrong!) :happy2:
Best I avoid Jabbasport then.
I suggest everyone reads some proper automotive enginneering text books, then do the same with some elementary GCSE Physics text books. Or e-mail those geeks at Bang Goes the Theory. They'll prove you all wrong.
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well thats it everybody, TT has spoken and as always everyone else is all wrong and he is right.
even eibach, the people who make ARBs haven't even managed to get it right.
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^^^ Exactly, looks like the German's don't agree T_T.
Taken from the Eibach installation guide for the Mk5 Anti Roll Bars
Verstellmöglichkeit: Harte Stabilisatorrate ; Hintere Bohrung von den Stabilisatorenden benutzen
Weiche Stabilisatorrate; Vordere Bohrung von den Stabilisatorenden benutzen
=
Adjustability: Hard stabilizer use rate; rear hole of the stabilizer ends
Soft stabilizer use rate; Front hole of the stabilizer ends
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So guys, whats the overall verdict on this then as im fitting them next week. Are we going wih inner holes for a stiffer setting and outer for softer?
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inner stiff, outer soft
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the further out the hole is the less of an effect the arb has!
Sorry, but that is pure BS.
Go and tighten some wheel bolts with a windy gun on max setting. Then get a 30" breaker bar, and stand on the end tightening them further. Now get the weedy short wheelbrace out the boot and try undoing said wheel bolt.
So like others have said the inner hole is the stiffer setting!
(i could be wrong but that would mean all the setup work on race cars and running my own race cars for the last god knows how many years has been completely wrong!) :happy2:
Best I avoid Jabbasport then.
I suggest everyone reads some proper automotive enginneering text books, then do the same with some elementary GCSE Physics text books. Or e-mail those geeks at Bang Goes the Theory. They'll prove you all wrong.
Cheers dude! nice to know there are some friendly faces about eah...
might want to read up about arbs work first tho...
Where is the load (force) coming from,...the wheel, the wheel is trying to twist the ARB, there for its putting load on the bar.
now put that to your theory, more weight on the bar at a longer distance from the pivot will bend (or twist) the bar easer than it would be for the same amount of load at a shorter distance from the pivot
Might want to understand how it works before you slag of someone thats been working with them for god knows how many years (with 5 championship wins out of 4 championships entered i might add too) :happy2:
Cheers.... google is your friend btw :wink:
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inner stiff, outer soft
Yes, Teutonic_Tamer is wrong, longer lever = softer, shorter = stiffer.
Just simple physic and you feel it that way, when you do it .