MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Technical Workshop => Topic started by: Deako on May 14, 2010, 02:40:19 pm

Title: 1.4 TSI PCV Options
Post by: Deako on May 14, 2010, 02:40:19 pm
Hi All,

I cant seem to find much information on this.

Does the 1.4 TSI engine suffer from the same PCV valve vapour recirculation issues as its bigger brothers, the 2.0T FSI and the 2.0T TSI engines?

If so, do any companies have a suitable fix that could be applied to a car from new? I have checked the BSH website, and they dont appear to list anything specifically for the engine.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: 1.4 TSI PCV Options
Post by: RedRobin on May 14, 2010, 02:56:08 pm
^^^^
Is your car turbocharged? If so, turbocharged engines often draw significant amounts of oil into the engine through the PCV system. An aftermarket oil catch tank system removes aerated oil so that it can be drained and recycled.

Perhaps phone Forge 01452 380999 and ask if they do a PCV fix for your car?

I get confused with the "TSI" term - Does the "T" mean it's turbo'd?
Title: Re: 1.4 TSI PCV Options
Post by: Deako on May 14, 2010, 03:30:01 pm
Robin, i previously had the PCV fix on my Mk5 GTI, had the Stage 1 BSH fix.

Forge are too expensive. So wouldnt pursue that avenue. BSH is a cheaper alternative.

The 1.4 TSI engine is both supercharged and turbocharged.
Title: Re: 1.4 TSI PCV Options
Post by: RedRobin on May 14, 2010, 04:17:44 pm
^^^^
Yes, the Forge is much more expensive but much better designed, engineered and thought out. I've had both. The BSH does the job but the Forge does it better, IMO.
Title: Re: 1.4 TSI PCV Options
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on May 14, 2010, 04:35:42 pm
turbocharged engines often draw significant amounts of oil into the engine through the PCV system.
Not really true.  There are many, MANY turbo engines, including VAG turbo engines which do not burn oil.


An aftermarket oil catch tank system removes aerated oil so that it can be drained and recycled.
And is completely un-necessary on anything appart from highly modified engines.


I get confused with the "TSI" term - Does the "T" mean it's turbo'd?
When the TSI acronym was originally introduced, it meant 'Twincharger Stratified Injection' - because it had both a turbocharger and a supercharger.
Title: Re: 1.4 TSI PCV Options
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on May 14, 2010, 04:37:45 pm
^^^^
Yes, the Forge is much more expensive but much better designed, engineered and thought out. I've had both. The BSH does the job but the Forge does it better, IMO.

And both are massively over-engineered for standard road cars.
Title: Re: 1.4 TSI PCV Options
Post by: RedRobin on May 14, 2010, 04:47:56 pm
^^^^
Yes, the Forge is much more expensive but much better designed, engineered and thought out. I've had both. The BSH does the job but the Forge does it better, IMO.

And both are massively over-engineered for standard road cars.

...."Both"? massively over-engineered? I can see that the Forge PCV fix is definitely "over" engineered - That's something I appreciate and love about it. My car's not standard anyway  :P  :wink:
Title: Re: 1.4 TSI PCV Options
Post by: RedRobin on May 14, 2010, 04:55:53 pm
turbocharged engines often draw significant amounts of oil into the engine through the PCV system.
Not really true.  There are many, MANY turbo engines, including VAG turbo engines which do not burn oil.

....I wrote "often", meaning some and not necessarily all.

An aftermarket oil catch tank system removes aerated oil so that it can be drained and recycled.

And is completely un-necessary on anything appart from highly modified engines.

....You debated this opinion at length in another thread, I recall.

Not everyone will agree with you and may wish to have a PCV fix as a preventative maintenance measure, at least in their view.

:happy2:



Title: Re: 1.4 TSI PCV Options
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on May 14, 2010, 05:04:49 pm
turbocharged engines often draw significant amounts of oil into the engine through the PCV system.
Not really true.  There are many, MANY turbo engines, including VAG turbo engines which do not burn oil.

....I wrote "often", meaning some and not necessarily all.
But 'often' would mean that burnining oil would be close to the norm or usual - which isn't correct, even for the 2.0TFSI.



An aftermarket oil catch tank system removes aerated oil so that it can be drained and recycled.

And is completely un-necessary on anything appart from highly modified engines.

....You debated this opinion at length in another thread, I recall.

Not everyone will agree with you and may wish to have a PCV fix as a preventative maintenance measure, at least in their view.

:happy2:
There would be absolutely NO purpose for using a catch can on standard or mildly modified engines.  This has been thrashed to death previously - on standard or mildly modifed engines, incorrect spec oil is likely to be the cause of the 'carbon issue'
Title: Re: 1.4 TSI PCV Options
Post by: RedRobin on May 14, 2010, 05:19:16 pm
turbocharged engines often draw significant amounts of oil into the engine through the PCV system.
Not really true.  There are many, MANY turbo engines, including VAG turbo engines which do not burn oil.

....I wrote "often", meaning some and not necessarily all.

But 'often' would mean that burnining oil would be close to the norm or usual - which isn't correct, even for the 2.0TFSI.

....Would you be happier with the word "can" instead of "often", sir?



There would be absolutely NO purpose for using a catch can on standard or mildly modified engines.  This has been thrashed to death previously - on standard or mildly modifed engines, incorrect spec oil is likely to be the cause of the 'carbon issue'

....Well, as we both say, thrashed or debated to death in another thread.

At what point does a car stop being mildly modified and then become highly modified? [genuine question - not trying to score points]
Title: Re: 1.4 TSI PCV Options
Post by: Deako on May 14, 2010, 05:20:22 pm
Ive seen the intake removed on many FSI engines, and its always a mess. Yes, even when the correct grade of oil is used.

I will make my own decision on whether to fit one or not, if there is one in existence for the 1.4 TSI engine.
Title: Re: 1.4 TSI PCV Options
Post by: GTIforpassion on July 22, 2010, 09:32:11 pm
You can use also one of this http://www.tks-race.com/images/FSR1X.jpg
Title: Re: 1.4 TSI PCV Options
Post by: Deacon on July 23, 2010, 08:14:49 am
I'd be interested in knowing more about this too for my 'rocco.

Deacon
Title: Re: 1.4 TSI PCV Options
Post by: RedRobin on July 23, 2010, 06:23:06 pm
You can use also one of this http://www.tks-race.com/images/FSR1X.jpg

^^^^ That looks like a 'vent-to-atmosphere' filter. Just be aware that you will fail a MOT with one of those. Also, they can create unwelcome smells.
Title: Re: 1.4 TSI PCV Options
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on August 30, 2010, 04:43:38 pm
turbocharged engines often draw significant amounts of oil into the engine through the PCV system.
Not really true.  There are many, MANY turbo engines, including VAG turbo engines which do not burn oil.

....I wrote "often", meaning some and not necessarily all.

But 'often' would mean that burnining oil would be close to the norm or usual - which isn't correct, even for the 2.0TFSI.

....Would you be happier with the word "can" instead of "often", sir?

 :happy2: :happy2:  :drinking:


There would be absolutely NO purpose for using a catch can on standard or mildly modified engines.  This has been thrashed to death previously - on standard or mildly modifed engines, incorrect spec oil is likely to be the cause of the 'carbon issue'

....Well, as we both say, thrashed or debated to death in another thread.

At what point does a car stop being mildly modified and then become highly modified? [genuine question - not trying to score points]
Well, I would probably reckon a ball-park figure of say a 50% or more increase in engine power (and I'm only refering to engine mods here, so 22" alloys or 50mm ARBs don't count in this respect).

So for a standard GTI, a stage one remap, with a zorst and either an <cough> uprated air filter or induction kit would not exceed the 'highly modified' threshold.  So again, for about 95% of peeps on this forum, a catch can is not needed.
Title: Re: 1.4 TSI PCV Options
Post by: RedRobin on August 30, 2010, 10:17:33 pm
.
@ Sean aka T_T:

I can respect your reasoning and conclusion that, in your opinion, an aftermarket catch can system is not needed except on 'highly' modified (as you have defined) cars. I would like to know your views on whether you think that having an 'unnecessary' catch can does any harm.

Thanks  :happy2:
Title: Re: 1.4 TSI PCV Options
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on September 01, 2010, 11:31:16 am
.
@ Sean aka T_T:

I can respect your reasoning and conclusion that, in your opinion, an aftermarket catch can system is not needed except on 'highly' modified (as you have defined) cars. I would like to know your views on whether you think that having an 'unnecessary' catch can does any harm.

Thanks  :happy2:

OK,  . . . harm . . . Maybe slightly . . . lets list:

Discuss . . .
Title: Re: 1.4 TSI PCV Options
Post by: RedRobin on September 01, 2010, 11:51:03 am
.
@ Sean aka T_T:

I can respect your reasoning and conclusion that, in your opinion, an aftermarket catch can system is not needed except on 'highly' modified (as you have defined) cars. I would like to know your views on whether you think that having an 'unnecessary' catch can does any harm.

Thanks  :happy2:

OK,  . . . harm . . . Maybe sligtly . . . lets list:
    • 1 - its an 'engine modification' - so it needs to be declared to insurance
    • 2 - its a non genuine part - so will have warranty implications
    • 3 - BSH (from what I can see - I could be wrong, so feel free to correct me) are NOT VAG specialists - so are less likely to be trusted (especially over any warranty 'disputes') over more recognised and established VAG specialist suppliers such as Revo
    • 4 - it will increase your oil consumption - 99% of the oil collected in the catch can is highly likely to flow back into the sump in standard or mildly modified road cars
    • 5 - it may have a detrimental effect on your valve stem oil seals - these are designed to be operated in an oily environment, so the catch can may be preventing one side of the seal from being lubricated - this can wear out both the seals and the actual valve guides, leading in the long term to burning more oil, loss of compression, loss of power
    • 6 - they look naff - IMVHO

    Discuss . . .
^ I've added numbers to aid discussion.

1 - Agreed. Mine is declared.
2 - I'm well outside warranty but of course this is a very relevant consideration for those who aren't.
3 - I'm not a fan of BSH and find them far too American nationalistic and lacking consideration of their products outside the bloody U S of A.
4 - Not bothered by extra oil consumption - It's replaced every 10k miles. Some people might be though.
5 - Such detrimental effect is of much more concern but I note you say "may", so not 100%.
6 - Very subjective. I love my over-engineered beautifully engineered Forge system.

 :happy2:[/list]