MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: paulk on May 15, 2010, 01:36:02 am

Title: am i ready for the ring
Post by: paulk on May 15, 2010, 01:36:02 am
ring trip next week with some old mates from the vxr site...Am i ring ready...
removed a few parts i wont need lol
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi242.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff167%2Fp7ulk%2Frr.jpg&hash=49381ea0ef2018e12a8a777d24d43214b1e6bede)
got to say im thinking about a rear brace bar and harnesses now
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi242.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff167%2Fp7ulk%2Frr3.jpg&hash=ce5d4ee4ac6aed5ad020a448b8bee430728d7a2d)
got hold of some second hand vw racing brakes from a mate, pads was a nightmare but with mat and simons help there on and i just got to bed them in.Bloody standard bbs wheels dont help ill be sellin them soon i think
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi242.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff167%2Fp7ulk%2Frr4.jpg&hash=021db4de6f3ff3157e91d569c17d114f87e766c0)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi242.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff167%2Fp7ulk%2Frr6.jpg&hash=f37faaf947b0fda3d36f3756b729c1c31e8da376)
open fog covers
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi242.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff167%2Fp7ulk%2Frr8.jpg&hash=41eccfe62e17b88cd52ffaf8dfeb5b811393f532)
itg intake thanks to subaru26675

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi242.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff167%2Fp7ulk%2Frr9.jpg&hash=047102a615c67dbfbfef815b59558044b985634d)
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: Aparoon on May 15, 2010, 03:25:23 am
I took my rear seats out ready for the ring too  :ashamed:
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: tony_danza on May 15, 2010, 10:36:43 am
I'm doing it over there, I can't be arsed with hundreds of miles of bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: JPC on May 15, 2010, 10:48:39 am
I know what your saying mike, aftermarket exhausts can bea tad loud with half the interior missing
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: cmdrfire on May 15, 2010, 01:38:12 pm
Mk5 don't need a brace bar. Chassis is plenty stiff already.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: Aparoon on May 15, 2010, 03:07:08 pm
I've had mine out for a few days, I don't mind the noise at all its awesome  :driver:
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: paulk on May 15, 2010, 10:30:59 pm
the miltek is only in your face when you plant the pedal...Ill have a rear bar to run harneses from as i think they look gash from the seat bolting points.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: gillm on May 15, 2010, 10:43:54 pm
im ready i think .

adjusted my rear arb
bled my brakes (which was black after 1 year)
checked pads and tyres
fitted new fuel filter
got a spare coil pack .


Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: paulk on May 15, 2010, 10:54:20 pm
Quote
adjusted my rear arb
bled my brakes (which was black after 1 year)
checked pads and tyres
fitted new fuel filter
got a spare coil pack

my roll bars are now on hard...still beding in the pads but should be sweet for next week...when you goin gillm
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: RedRobin on May 15, 2010, 10:56:31 pm
I know what your saying mike, aftermarket exhausts can bea tad loud with half the interior missing

....Get some removable mild-soundproofing carpet (and a half-cage).
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: gillm on May 15, 2010, 11:18:51 pm
im there next weekend
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: ashley on May 16, 2010, 11:04:37 am
looks good paul, Its amazing the weight of the rear seats. Even my old tdi flew without, although it did introduce rake.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: RedRobin on May 16, 2010, 11:11:17 am
looks good paul, Its amazing the weight of the rear seats. Even my old tdi flew without, although it did introduce rake.

....When you say "rake" do you mean the rear of your car lifted noticeably higher without the weight of the seats?
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: Truckie on May 16, 2010, 11:18:59 am
 :signLOL:        :notworthy:       :popcornsoda:
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: tony_danza on May 16, 2010, 04:45:16 pm
the miltek is only in your face when you plant the pedal...Ill have a rear bar to run harneses from as i think they look gash from the seat bolting points.

I'm not sure there's many safe places to mount a harness bar on a Mk5, you'd need to be looking at welding one in or doing some very serious calcs. As a rough guide, think hitting a stationary object (car, barrier etc) at 30mph would mean a 75KG person is putting about 2100KG of force on that bar.... you'd going to need it to be good!
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: RedRobin on May 16, 2010, 04:53:43 pm
the miltek is only in your face when you plant the pedal...Ill have a rear bar to run harneses from as i think they look gash from the seat bolting points.

I'm not sure there's many safe places to mount a harness bar on a Mk5, you'd need to be looking at welding one in or doing some very serious calcs. As a rough guide, think hitting a stationary object (car, barrier etc) at 30mph would mean a 75KG person is putting about 2100KG of force on that bar.... you'd going to need it to be good!

....Exactly. A harness bar needs to be a structural part of a roll-cage. A removable half-cage can suit a Mk5 without interfering with practical everyday use of the front seats etc.

Alternatively, with appropriate front seats, a Schroth Quik-Fit harness makes a big difference.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: QD MBE on May 16, 2010, 04:58:15 pm
You getting a cage RR?
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: RedRobin on May 16, 2010, 05:02:34 pm
You getting a cage RR?

:laugh: What gives you that idea?  :grin:
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: QD MBE on May 16, 2010, 05:04:05 pm
the miltek is only in your face when you plant the pedal...Ill have a rear bar to run harneses from as i think they look gash from the seat bolting points.

I'm not sure there's many safe places to mount a harness bar on a Mk5, you'd need to be looking at welding one in or doing some very serious calcs. As a rough guide, think hitting a stationary object (car, barrier etc) at 30mph would mean a 75KG person is putting about 2100KG of force on that bar.... you'd going to need it to be good!

....Exactly. A harness bar needs to be a structural part of a roll-cage. A removable half-cage can suit a Mk5 without interfering with practical everyday use of the front seats etc.

Alternatively, with appropriate front seats, a Schroth Quik-Fit harness makes a big difference.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: RedRobin on May 16, 2010, 05:13:24 pm

....Exactly. A harness bar needs to be a structural part of a roll-cage. A removable half-cage can suit a Mk5 without interfering with practical everyday use of the front seats etc.

Alternatively, with appropriate front seats, a Schroth Quik-Fit harness makes a big difference.

....Yeah, but all that means is that I've been curious how practical a cage might be for someone with a Mk5 Golf.

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FDetailing%2FStickers%2Fsmiley_BigWink.png&hash=fee77fef0108717718449ccaeb007a7d111f1bbc)
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: QD MBE on May 16, 2010, 05:19:31 pm
 :wink:
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: tony_danza on May 16, 2010, 05:21:58 pm
Doesn't have to be part of a cage, Robin - it just has to be absolutely fit for purpose and on some structural metal.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: RedRobin on May 16, 2010, 05:36:06 pm
^^^^
Cheers, Mike  :drinking: Definitely needs to be fit for purpose otherwise it's pointless and could even be very dangerous. Says he who once rolled a car and had to duck to avoid a loose magnum (yes, a biggie!) of champagne which was on the back seat. Was early one christmas morning on black ice.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: Top Cat on May 16, 2010, 05:38:24 pm
^^^^
Cheers, Mike  :drinking: Definitely needs to be fit for purpose otherwise it's pointless and could even be very dangerous. Says he who once rolled a car and had to duck to avoid a loose magnum (yes, a biggie!) of champagne which was on the back seat. Was early one christmas morning on black ice.

I did not know you could get champagne magnums now.  :chicken:  My favourite is the dark chocolate closely followed by the double caramel.  :happy2:
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: paulk on May 16, 2010, 05:39:08 pm
i was goin to ask vw racing to sort a rear bar for me...not wantin a cage or half..
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: RedRobin on May 16, 2010, 05:40:24 pm
i was goin to ask vw racing to sort a rear bar for me...not wantin a cage or half..

....A good idea - They know the Mk5 structure inside out - Literally!
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: paulk on May 16, 2010, 06:01:50 pm
yeah i spoke with mat and simon and there goin to look into it...
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: cmdrfire on May 16, 2010, 09:26:12 pm
Also, remember that it can be dangerous to have straps without a cage. There was that incident last year where a guy in a MINI died - he had got a 6-point harness fitted, but with no rollbar. In the accident, he rolled it and the seat collapsed down, catching him in the harness and killing him.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: gillm on May 16, 2010, 09:29:20 pm
caging a road car will piss you off . my mk1 does my head in
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: paulk on May 16, 2010, 11:26:26 pm
defo dont want a full cage....might have to get my thinking cap on  :rolleye:
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: RedRobin on May 16, 2010, 11:36:47 pm
defo dont want a full cage....might have to get my thinking cap on  :rolleye:

....From what tony_d has said I don't think you need even a half-cage in order to properly fit just a harness bar. But VWR can certainly advise.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: animal on May 19, 2010, 10:31:49 am
defo dont want a full cage....might have to get my thinking cap on  :rolleye:

....From what tony_d has said I don't think you need even a half-cage in order to properly fit just a harness bar. But VWR can certainly advise.

Are you fitting harnesses then RR?
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: monte on May 19, 2010, 10:55:25 am
Hey Paulk, Have you upgraded the standard suspension? All I was running were the H&R springs on standard shocks. They performed great on 99% of the track but they seemed to struggle on the first carousel. It felt like I was all over the place. It was ok if, I went through a bit slower, or went around it. The second carousel was fine going through  :happy2:
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: RedRobin on May 19, 2010, 02:53:06 pm
defo dont want a full cage....might have to get my thinking cap on  :rolleye:

....From what tony_d has said I don't think you need even a half-cage in order to properly fit just a harness bar. But VWR can certainly advise.

Are you fitting harnesses then RR?

....I already have a Schroth Quikfit 4-point harness (only used for trackdays/Nordschleife) but am currently investigating a removable half-cage plus full harness. I will obviously post all about it in due course if/when I go ahead.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: animal on May 19, 2010, 03:52:24 pm
defo dont want a full cage....might have to get my thinking cap on  :rolleye:

....From what tony_d has said I don't think you need even a half-cage in order to properly fit just a harness bar. But VWR can certainly advise.

Are you fitting harnesses then RR?

....I already have a Schroth Quikfit 4-point harness (only used for trackdays/Nordschleife) but am currently investigating a removable half-cage plus full harness. I will obviously post all about it in due course if/when I go ahead.

Are you upgrading your seats to rigid ones?
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: RedRobin on May 19, 2010, 04:38:59 pm

Are you upgrading your seats to rigid ones?


....Nope. That would be a downgrade regarding my main usage.

For those who may not know: My front seats are Recaro's VW factory option.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: ashley on May 19, 2010, 10:47:22 pm
looks good paul, Its amazing the weight of the rear seats. Even my old tdi flew without, although it did introduce rake.

....When you say "rake" do you mean the rear of your car lifted noticeably higher without the weight of the seats?

Yep, might help you over those speed humps Robin  :P
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: animal on May 24, 2010, 01:24:51 pm

Are you upgrading your seats to rigid ones?


....Nope. That would be a downgrade regarding my main usage.

For those who may not know: My front seats are Recaro's VW factory option.

FYI - lower B-pillar sticker applied to Golfs with Recaros from the factory:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fv291%2Fanimal87%2F22052010025.jpg&hash=cabed4f2bdff5d99db321cb002c1a581801921e4)
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: cmdrfire on May 24, 2010, 01:32:11 pm
Harnesses on "normal" seats (even if they are fancy factory Recaros) and non-caged cars are dangerous. I keep saying this but people just ignore it  :confused:
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: animal on May 24, 2010, 01:39:53 pm
Harnesses on "normal" seats (even if they are fancy factory Recaros) and non-caged cars are dangerous. I keep saying this but people just ignore it  :confused:

I agree and I have raised it before too. Tony_d did find information from Recaro regarding the after-market version of the Recaro CS (on which the Golf bucket seat it apparently based) and they do accept 4 point harnesses - however, it seems the VW OEM version of the seat aren't approved and/or VW are playing it safe from a liability point of view.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: RedRobin on May 24, 2010, 02:52:34 pm
Harnesses on "normal" seats (even if they are fancy factory Recaros) and non-caged cars are dangerous. I keep saying this but people just ignore it  :confused:

I agree and I have raised it before too. Tony_d did find information from Recaro regarding the after-market version of the Recaro CS (on which the Golf bucket seat it apparently based) and they do accept 4 point harnesses - however, it seems the VW OEM version of the seat aren't approved and/or VW are playing it safe from a liability point of view.

....I don't think that anyone here is saying that harnesses aren't dangerous on the 'normal' VW oem seats.

All discussed in the Schroth Quikfit review thread:

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6341.0.html

I translate that label differently than you appear to do, animal - See the review thread where you also posted that label.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: animal on May 24, 2010, 03:31:09 pm
Harnesses on "normal" seats (even if they are fancy factory Recaros) and non-caged cars are dangerous. I keep saying this but people just ignore it  :confused:

I agree and I have raised it before too. Tony_d did find information from Recaro regarding the after-market version of the Recaro CS (on which the Golf bucket seat it apparently based) and they do accept 4 point harnesses - however, it seems the VW OEM version of the seat aren't approved and/or VW are playing it safe from a liability point of view.

....I don't think that anyone here is saying that harnesses aren't dangerous on the 'normal' VW oem seats.

All discussed in the Schroth Quikfit review thread:

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6341.0.html

I translate that label differently than you appear to do, animal - See the review thread where you also posted that label.

I'm happy to agree to disagree, but I personally dont see how a big red cross through an image of the bucket seat can be 'translated' in any other way than dont do it.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: cmdrfire on May 24, 2010, 03:50:04 pm
....I don't think that anyone here is saying that harnesses aren't dangerous on the 'normal' VW oem seats.

All discussed in the Schroth Quikfit review thread:

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6341.0.html

I translate that label differently than you appear to do, animal - See the review thread where you also posted that label.

Red, even with the fancy Recaros they are not racing seats and as such harnesses should not be used with them. The seats and the seat runners as a combination would almost certainly not comply with FIA specs; to use a harness with them is potentially lethal. See my example of the MINI owner last year (in the US) who had Recaros and a 4-point harness; his seat collapsed in the accident and he was killed by the harness.

The label is pretty explicit. Unfortunately physics doesn't give a toss about opinions or translations.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: RedRobin on May 24, 2010, 05:51:44 pm

I'm happy to agree to disagree, but I personally dont see how a big red cross through an image of the bucket seat can be 'translated' in any other way than dont do it.


....Let me explain how I interpret that label but I accept I may be wrong and I hope you'll understand that I'm not trying to score points to win a debate:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fv291%2Fanimal87%2F22052010025.jpg&hash=cabed4f2bdff5d99db321cb002c1a581801921e4)

^ Lefthand front (very clear) of seat illustration marked by a X to show not to feed belt ends through the slots from the back.

^ Top righthand circled illustration relates directly to the above and advises belt ends to be fed through slots from seat front towards back and uses an arrow to clarify.

^ Bottom righthand illustration shows what can happen when you ignore as advised.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: animal on May 24, 2010, 06:31:49 pm
I appreciate where you are coming from Robin, but you have missed one other critical piece of information which is high-lighted in red on the seat (other than the arrows and the cross): the tilt-release hidden in the 'cosmetic' harness cut-outs.

I am guessing this label only applies to 3dr variants as the 5dr has no need for the release mechnism (they might possibly be stronger as they have no need to tilt forward - or I am wrong and they are the same seat?!). This label is high lighting the danger of using harnesses with these seats because of the danger they will unlock the tilt mechnism. Part of the reason I raise this issue is because I can clearly see in photos that you have 3dr seats fitted RR.

I'm not out to shout you down or prove you wrong either. It's simply concern for you safety. I've brought this up on the forum because up to now we haven't seen anything official from VW on these seats - only the assumption that Recaro's statement regarding the aftermarket CS seat also applies to these (which is tenuous at best as we have no idea what corners are cut to keep the price down on the VW OEM versions). The harnesses also might be TUV approved, but they are only as safe as the seat they are attached too.

At the end of the day, it's all about risk. This is not something that could effect anyone else in a crash or even cause one (unlike illegal brake pads or chav HID kits). It's listed on your insurance, so that's a start. Where you'd get with a personal injury claim remains to be seen given VW obvious stance on these seats and ignorance unfortunately not be admissable as a defense. But all this aside, it's your choice.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: RedRobin on May 24, 2010, 07:51:33 pm
^^^^
Aha! Yes, I now see the tilt-release factor.

I haven't been able so far to establish whether there were two versions of the VW 'oem' optional Recaro - One tilting and the other fixed. All the ones I have seen so far are tiltable.

It's a bit academic but when tightened and worn, the Schroth belt has no movement upwards towards the tilt release. However, under multidirectional forces in an accident this would most likely change.

Hurdy's type of belt buckle might be better for trackdays with my seats.

Either way, I shall be looking further into this if/when I build a half-cage and will share my findings. 
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: Janner_Sy on May 24, 2010, 08:13:03 pm

It's a bit academic but when tightened and worn, the Schroth belt has no movement upwards towards the tilt release. However, under multidirectional forces in an accident this would most likely change.

but you wouldnt be able to replicate the force of a high speed headon collision.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: NB07 on May 24, 2010, 08:43:23 pm
^^^^
Hurdy's type of belt buckle might be better for trackdays with my seats.

if they are anything like the ones domT has then i think they seem really great and i should really invest in something like that.

Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: Hurdy on May 24, 2010, 08:49:39 pm
^^^^
Hurdy's type of belt buckle might be better for trackdays with my seats.

if they are anything like the ones domT has then i think they seem really great and i should really invest in something like that.



Review here....

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3350.0.html
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: cmdrfire on May 24, 2010, 10:47:18 pm
^^ These CG-locks are much safer in cars without cages and hardseats than straps are.
Title: Re: am i ready for the ring
Post by: dumpit on June 06, 2010, 05:31:52 pm
have you sold your vw racing brakes? i have cash wating if you havent