MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: robern2 on May 23, 2010, 09:03:13 am
-
Following the group buy with PDTuning, I was able to get my Forge twintercooler fitted yesterday as part of the annual service by the ever helpful guys at Streetwise Automotive in Bristol.
A clean bill of health was confirmed for my Ed30 (no cam follower issues to report).
Initial observations.
It's lighter than I thought and has allayed any concerns I had about additional front end weight.
Weld and general fabrication quality is excellent as expected from Forge.
Once fitted (Streetwise tell me there were no dramas) you have to look hard to even see it's there, it fills the gap behind the honeycomb section perfectly. I went for black hoses in keeping with the original equipment look.
We didn’t get a chance to do any pre/post logging yesterday but I’m not a revo fiddler so coupled with numerous exchanges I’ve had with REVO and members on here, we’ve stuck with my original settings (b8t5f6).
Yesterday was very warm in Bristol, air temps hit 28 degrees according to my car which inevitably meant that even on the drive to Streetwise, performance did not feel as punchy as on cooler days.
Granted I also had new plugs but with the twintercooler fitted, I was surprised how much puncher the car felt, more urgent throttle response. Despite a few choice back road hacks, there didn’t appear to be any blight on performance despite the warm conditions.
Granted this is purely subjective stuff but the peace of mind gained from knowing I’ve gotten rid of the Ed30’s achillies heel – the intercooler, coupled with the longevity and performance benefits it appears to provide makes this a winner for me.
-
Hi, Glad you have got it fitted without any dramas, trimming the hoses and getting them to fit is a pain with these kits but if you take your time its a great bit of kit.
We did some logging when we fitted one last week, before the new IC we had an intake temp of 23 degrees cruising in 3rd at 25mph, a full throttle pull through 3rd saw the intake temps rise to 29 degrees and then after a 4th gear pull they hit 38 degrees.
With the twintercooler we saw just 21 degrees at cruise, 24 degrees at the end of 3rd gear and just 27 degrees at the end of 4th. That is a decrease of 11 degrees intake temps after just 2 pulls.
Dyno testing this type of product is tricky as you cant replicate real world temps, even with some huge fans, but as a direct comparison on the car we did test on the dyno (same settings in the map etc...) we saw 311bhp before and 323 after. Only difference was lower intake temps.
As a test we decided to turn off the fans and get the intake temps up to 40ish degrees and then dyno test, it dropped to 290bhp. So in summary the twintercooler dropped intake temps by around 11 degrees in the real world which equates to 12bhp on the dyno.
-
interesting, was only expecting recovered power improvements so additional power gain is great.
-
trimming the hoses and getting them to fit is a pain with these kits but if you take your time its a great bit of kit.
....I was having a chat with Forge last week about their Twintercooler and the pipework. Their ideal would be to supply metal piping but there are too many variations of the 2.0T FSI platform to allow for a standard length and so this is why they supply their silicone hoses too long so they can be trimmed to fit. A bit like when Levi jeans used to do that.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FHotties%2FJeansArse.jpg&hash=03ac0a81b134af62358573516e5c8491a3217cbb)
^ Oooops! It had to be done :evilgrin:
-
^^^Such a nice arse :love:
-
....I was having a chat with Forge last week about their Twintercooler and the pipework. Their ideal would be to supply metal piping but there are too many variations of the 2.0T FSI platform to allow for a standard length and so this is why they supply their silicone hoses too long so they can be trimmed to fit.
Not wanting to moan Robin, but the fit on the pipework you are eluding to is shocking and not even close to what it should be. I understand what you are saying about the need for a one pipe fits all but they should be specific for each application, How many different positions can the intercooler and turbo be in. on a Mk 5 :chicken:
It took me and Mat longer to fit that pipe, than it did to fit the S3 cooler and twinter together. :fighting:
-
It took me and Mat longer to fit that pipe, than it did to fit the S3 cooler and twinter together. :fighting:
Why didn't you call Joe to help out... :evilgrin: :laugh:
-
It took me and Mat longer to fit that pipe, than it did to fit the S3 cooler and twinter together. :fighting:
Why didn't you call Joe to help out... :evilgrin: :laugh:
:laugh:
-
:signLOL: i was trying really hard to read robins post but i coulnt because he posted pictures of women! i hope the work for forge other wise its irrelevant!
sounds very positve dave/ nathan, cant wait to get mine on there for the summer :happy2:
-
....I was having a chat with Forge last week about their Twintercooler and the pipework. Their ideal would be to supply metal piping but there are too many variations of the 2.0T FSI platform to allow for a standard length and so this is why they supply their silicone hoses too long so they can be trimmed to fit.
Not wanting to moan Robin, but the fit on the pipework you are eluding to is shocking and not even close to what it should be. I understand what you are saying about the need for a one pipe fits all but they should be specific for each application, How many different positions can the intercooler and turbo be in. on a Mk 5 :chicken:
It took me and Mat longer to fit that pipe, than it did to fit the S3 cooler and twinter together. :fighting:
....I don't know what the pipework fit is like, TC - I was only repeating a phone conversation with Forge. I'll pass on your feedback when I next speak with them. :happy2:
-
it seems strange to me,
All of the forge twintercoolers for each mk5 platform are slighty different due to bracket positions etc. They have bothered to change that but not the pipes!!, a bit of a half assed attempt there IMO.
Once you have designed an intercooler for a car, everything should be tailor made to fit it perfectly. Not a 1 size fits all job. especially when you are paying £500 for it as well.
I have seen numerous pics of kinked pipes on the twintintercoolers due to people not managing to cut the pipes correctly when finishing off the job from forge on their own car. For me this is the only downside to the twintercooler
-
^^^^
Email sent to Forge with link to this thread. I'm sure we'll have some answers to our customer feedback..
-
I agree that the pipes issue is a concern, but with a bit of patience they are simple to fit.
Someone mentioned kinked pipes - maybe its a fitting issue and not a problem with the pipes, if fitted properly they wont kink.
I have fitted 3 of these kits now and all have required trimming and a bit of time and effort to get a good fit, but all have been perfect once they were finished. Its not so much the shape and quality of the pipes, more down to the work put in during installation that gives a good end result.
-
The cost of the kit you would think the silicon hoses would be specific to that engine.
-
It took me and Mat longer to fit that pipe, than it did to fit the S3 cooler and twinter together. :fighting:
Why didn't you call Joe to help out... :evilgrin: :laugh:
those pipes are shocking :fighting: :fighting: they just dont fit all :fighting: they are miles out ie u need to chop so much off its :scared: ie if you cut too much off your fooked big time :fighting: :fighting: come on Forge you know you can make them better
-
The cost of the kit you would think the silicon hoses would be specific to that engine.
....Logical and ideal from a customer pov, but you say that without appearing to know that much about the practical economics of relatively small production runs which a manufacturer like Forge or their specialist supplier has to allow for.
Consider all the R&D costs and then the production costs of what is a low volume product designed and built to a high standard using high standard materials and then tell me it's expensive.
I think there are no less than 5 different 2.0T FSI platforms and hence sets of sizes to cater for.
-
It took me and Mat longer to fit that pipe, than it did to fit the S3 cooler and twinter together. :fighting:
Why didn't you call Joe to help out... :evilgrin: :laugh:
ooooooo :P my cooler is just fine, god knows where those extra bolts went! :rolleye: :grin:
-
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fd122%2Fmat138l%2FIMG_1123.jpg&hash=bbe2fe3050645c53ac911fd06f05a1fceca0e10d)
that was after i cut some off the buggers :fighting: i ended up cutting lots off :rolleye:
-
^^^^
That doesn't look good, Mat - It looks collapsed. :sad1:
-
^^^^
That doesn't look good, Mat - It looks collapsed. :sad1:
yep it did but after lots of chopping it looked lots better :rolleye: but as said you should not need to do this as this is a kit for a car that should fit with no messing about :smiley: for the the IC is great but its the pipes that bring the product down :smiley:
-
^^^^
That doesn't look good, Mat - It looks collapsed. :sad1:
True but did he get the correct S3 twintercooler hoses or are those hoses meant for the standard GTI twintercooler?
-
yes mate 100% asked for s3 ic hoses and we even asked if thats what they sent and they did
-
regal failed miserably when attempting to fit my twintercooler, had to take it to jkm in the end and the pipes still looked a little kinked, but worked well :happy2:
if you want hard pipes this offering from VF looks the business, but not cheap at c£1000
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fu347%2Fjnewby99%2Fintercooler2_header.gif&hash=54e92fa4f762bc9bb166fce726aa8e37307822eb)
-
I know it's a bit late in the day but can you remember if the hoses were numbered 296 and 297? Those are the numbers on the S3 hoses.
-
no idea on numbers and that VF kit looks more like it as it uses the oe fixings
-
The cost of the kit you would think the silicon hoses would be specific to that engine.
....Logical and ideal from a customer pov, but you say that without appearing to know that much about the practical economics of relatively small production runs which a manufacturer like Forge or their specialist supplier has to allow for.
Consider all the R&D costs and then the production costs of what is a low volume product designed and built to a high standard using high standard materials and then tell me it's expensive.
I think there are no less than 5 different 2.0T FSI platforms and hence sets of sizes to cater for.
Come on I understand economies of scale.
We are talking hoses here not cores how much R&D is required?
And as you say there are not that many platforms.
-
if you have a kink in the pipework this is what forge recommend...
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fu347%2Fjnewby99%2F2793218445_836867715f_o.jpg&hash=e665da34efe2937cf6995115135edc10038d0f34)
-
I think it looks like agood bit of kit aswell but agree that it could be better with specific cut hoses.
If i were to fit a twintercooler to my leon cupra (that has S3 cooler installed already) what setup would i need?
i.e. Cupra twintercooler with S3 hoses and couplings or am i totally wrong, i know its a golf forum but no-one on seat had fitted a twintercooler to an S3 intercooler yet
thanks
-
The cost of the kit you would think the silicon hoses would be specific to that engine.
Come on I understand economies of scale.
We are talking hoses here not cores how much R&D is required?
And as you say there are not that many platforms.
....Your post emphasised the cost of the whole kit, not just hoses - Hence my response.
And no, I'm saying that 5 platforms is quite a lot.
-
The cost of the kit you would think the silicon hoses would be specific to that engine.
Come on I understand economies of scale.
We are talking hoses here not cores how much R&D is required?
And as you say there are not that many platforms.
....Your post emphasised the cost of the whole kit, not just hoses - Hence my response.
And no, I'm saying that 5 platforms is quite a lot.
Other companies have managed to get the hoses the right lenght i mean it carnt be that hard you just measure the lenght required on the 5 different varients and cut them :confused:
If they've done sooooo much R&D then they'd know the lenghts anyway.
Not disputing it been a good product because it is but its just cutting a bit of silicone and for £500 youd expect that to be done.
-
^^^^
Yep, I agree Rob - In theory Forge should be able to provide pre-cut hoses. The solution would be to manufacture according to the longest length and then cut them afterwards.
-
The Twintake has been customised for the different 2.0 TFSI platforms as the mounting and shape of the second air inlet varies from platform to platform. This is one of the things that really impressed me about the Twintake as Forge have taken the time to develop the intake to fit all platforms rather than a "one solution fits all" intake. This was at a cost to themselves but they did not want to sacrifice on quality or performance. In my mind this speaks volumes about Forge.
Bearing the above in mind I do feel that Forge should take the time to supply correctly measured hoses for all the different platforms with the Twintercooler.
-
The occassional problematic FMIC hose fitting is not confined to just Forge...
-
At the last count there were six variations of cars using these hoses.
Im being completely honest when i say this is the first time that trimming the hoses has been raised as a serious issue. It is mentioned in the instructions that some hose trimming will be necessary. If the hose is well lubricated with silicon spray prior to installation, they can be test fitted very quickly, and a good new stanley blade will cut the hose perfectly very quickly. Im not trying to come across as not caring, its just never occured to us that the prospect of cutting the hoses down would put you off buying the product, or give you a feeling of being short changed ?
-
Why not have an instruction sheet that gives a guide to the amount that needs to be cut off? Takes some of guess work ouy and if done properly, will mean once the excess is cut off, some tweaking should provide perfect fitment.