MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Janner_Sy on May 24, 2010, 07:17:37 am
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found this on my evening forum trawl. thought a few guys would be interested.
this is a guy from SCN(blade). ran GIAC before, but didint want to chane his intake to run the extreme map, so he went revo instead and got their new linear delivery map
It was the fact that GIAC insisted on the VF intake that infuriated me. Anyway i have now moved on to Revo and as iv,e said earlier they really looked after me and gave me what i wanted.
The file i have is called a Linear acceleration map. It was explained to me like this ( if you need more info give them a bell.)
Martyn who drives their K1, wanted a file that would give him more control of the throttle and thought the large surge of torque the regular file delivers actually hindered progress. Apparently when you request say 30% throttle with the fly by wire system the actual amount delivered could be more like 36 - 38%. This file gives a 1 to 1 ratio so if you want 30% you get it, hence the driver gets a lot more positive feel for what the tyres are doing. I was surprised to learn that their car does,nt,t have a diff - apparently this map does what it says. That's good for me as i was just about to put a diff in mine but won,t bother now.
First impressions are very good. The throttle feels more like the old cable affair, you feel as though your right foot is directly in contact with the boost. Compared to my previous GIAC file there is definitely not as much torque in the lower rev range but i suppose that will save my clutch. The car is a real rev monster now and boy does it pull hard at the top end.
Revo liberated another 35psi on my fuel rail and gave me another 5 psi boost. I am running B9 T7 F6 on V power and Carl said i could max out the timing with octane booster providing i log the car first to make sure there,s not too much timing pull. This file may not suit everyone but at least you now have a choice. I can,t see this file being of any benefit to those already with a diff.
i find it very interesting that the guy who runs revo's demo leon k1 thought that their normal map power delivery hindered progress. this new linear map does sound better though
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found this on my evening forum trawl. thought a few guys would be interested.
this is a guy from SCN (blade):
I can't see this file being of any benefit to those already with a diff.
....I can't see why a more linear remap cancels out the benefit of a diff. Is he saying he was getting too much wheelspin before? A diff does more than help reduce wheelspin.
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I wonder if you can change for a stock REVO file to this new one without having to pay the whole £500 or so?
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That sounds interesting. I would definately have been interested when I got Revo on my Ibiza Cupra a few years ago. That power delivery was:
Nothing..... nothing.... nothing....Whoa, SH1T, EVERYTHING!
Needless to say the wheelspin could be immense if you weren't careful. I like the sound of a linear map though. Some might not like it as by the saounds of it, it should drive more like an NA car, therefore having no turbo shove in the back feel.
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....I can't see why a more linear remap cancels out the benefit of a diff. Is he saying he was getting too much wheelspin before? A diff does more than help reduce wheelspin.
I think the point he is making is that the map means more progressive acceleration thus reducing wheelspin. I suppose Wheelspin is the main reason a lot of people get a diff. Unless you drive like you stole it everywhere or do track days then there would be little point in the diff for normal road use apart from reducing spin.
As you point out though a diff does more than help reduce wheelspin :happy2:
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^^^^
I find my Revo2 map is very progressive/linear but of course my suspension mods help get the power down and the rest is progressive use of my right foot.
The twisties in my neck of the woods beg for the diff. Even very high speed sweeping bends feel better planted.
Many, not all, of the Cupra boyz seem to think they have something to prove and go for big bhp power and hence the traction problems.
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the way I read it is that it makes the pedal more accurate to how much you actually press it, and not how the power is delivered.
So basically now when you depress the accelerator by 50% you get 50% of available power. The cars are standard currently dont respond to throttle inputs accurately, which can make modulating the throttle tricky at times, and can end up as a on off switch
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Many, not all, of the Cupra boyz seem to think they have something to prove and go for big bhp power and hence the traction problems.
Get a grip robin, there are plenty of cupras out there with sh*t loads of chassis mods that makes your chassis mods look mediocre. Plus 90% of people alwayts do power first, and then once thats done start on the chassis.
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the way I read it is that it makes the pedal more accurate to how much you actually press it, and not how the power is delivered.
So basically now when you depress the accelerator by 50% you get 50% of available power. The cars are standard currently dont respond to throttle inputs accurately, which can make modulating the throttle tricky at times, and can end up as a on off switch
....That's as may be but it's pretty academic. Your brain's coordination will automatically adapt to whatever reaction your right foot actions.
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Many, not all, of the Cupra boyz seem to think they have something to prove and go for big bhp power and hence the traction problems.
Get a grip robin, there are plenty of cupras out there with sh*t loads of chassis mods that makes your chassis mods look mediocre. Plus 90% of people alwayts do power first, and then once thats done start on the chassis.
....Woohoo! Hook, line, and sinker! :laugh: Cool it Cupra Boy :evilgrin: :wink:
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the way I read it is that it makes the pedal more accurate to how much you actually press it, and not how the power is delivered.
So basically now when you depress the accelerator by 50% you get 50% of available power. The cars are standard currently dont respond to throttle inputs accurately, which can make modulating the throttle tricky at times, and can end up as a on off switch
....That's as may be but it's pretty academic. Your brain's coordination will automatically adapt to whatever reaction your right foot actions.
Not really, as its nothing, nothing nothing, then all of a sudden you get power, hence why this map has been made. You have to depress the accelerator too much to make any progress, and the modulation window is much too small to get the perfect power input.
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Hmm interesting. As Rob says i wonder on the cost when you already have Revo.
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As long as your stage2+ Revo won,t charge for the file. Your dealer might charge for his time though. Give it a go and see what you think.
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As long as your stage2+ Revo won,t charge for the file. Your dealer might charge for his time though. Give it a go and see what you think.
Cheers Blade i'll get on the phone now. Do you know if they have a trial? :happy2:
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is it possibe to have both the maps on the switch then? im not sure about it though as my delivery feels pretty linear as it is, havnt had it rolling roaded though so not 100% :confused:
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the way I read it is that it makes the pedal more accurate to how much you actually press it, and not how the power is delivered.
So basically now when you depress the accelerator by 50% you get 50% of available power. The cars are standard currently dont respond to throttle inputs accurately, which can make modulating the throttle tricky at times, and can end up as a on off switch
....That's as may be but it's pretty academic. Your brain's coordination will automatically adapt to whatever reaction your right foot actions.
Not really, as its nothing, nothing nothing, then all of a sudden you get power, hence why this map has been made. You have to depress the accelerator too much to make any progress, and the modulation window is much too small to get the perfect power input.
Pretty much the reason I removed the SC map on mine after 150 miles, and never mapped again.
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you're all missing the point..... we haven't changed anything in the tuning! it's a linear throttle setup so the throttle pedal behaves like a cable actuated throttle rather than a stock gti etc throttle map where say for example 25% throttle inputted by the user is seen as a 33% load request......
it's like for like 25%=25% rather than stock where 25%=33%
the tuning is the same!
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you're all missing the point..... we haven't changed anything in the tuning! it's a linear throttle setup so the throttle pedal behaves like a cable actuated throttle rather than a stock gti etc throttle map where say for example 25% throttle inputted by the user is seen as a 33% load request......
it's like for like 25%=25% rather than stock where 25%=33%
the tuning is the same!
yep this is what I was trying to explain! :signLOL:
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Ahh got it now
Carl :signLOL:
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I guess you get used to the way the power is delivered. If there is no go faster benefit, I probably wont bother as I am happy with the way it is at the moment.
Also, I would be concerned that I preferred it the way it was and wanted it swapped back :signLOL:
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I'll ask what the situation is if you want it back.
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This sounds really interesting especially if it reduces the slight lag feel when first pressing the pedal. The pedal has always felt disconnected to the revs for me, Yes we all learn to adapt to what we have but this sounds like a great benefit. :jumping:
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^^^^
Well, I know that some other remaps can be 'off-off-off-ON!' but I've always found Revo1 and Revo2 very linear and never felt any lag.
So, Revo Carl, is there any point if you already have a Revo remap?
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Not to sure how you could describe Stage 1 as linear Robin, granted stage 2 is but again, that is not what its about its the connection before the delivery. :happy2:
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^^^^
I guess my foot/brain has simply become used to the delivery and I don't find anything to criticise about it. The worst remap I've experienced is the MTM - Horrific on-off and consequently very poor driveability.
Yes, Revo2 is slightly more 'linear' than Revo1 but their stage 1 is hardly lacking.
So, what's the cost of this new linear Revo map if you already have Revo2?
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It's only for K04 Cars that are Stage2+ and Stage 3 & Stage 4 cars (presuming this means Big Turbo?)
I asked Kev Hall about K03 and as yet its not available
Carl
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It's only for K04 Cars that are Stage2+ and Stage 3 & Stage 4 cars (presuming this means Big Turbo?)
I asked Kev Hall about K03 and as yet its not available
Carl
....Aha! Now that makes much more sense! Power is much more in yer face on bigger stage cars and theoretically (to me) such throttle shortfalls may be more evident.
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:grin: check out RR on his defence of all his mods. Put this way, i have driven REVO k03 cars at all the stages from stage 1 up to the stage 3 conversion. There is that pause before delivery, and you probably havent noticed as you may not have driven many other cars with different maps, i have and the REVO surge is more noticable than others, possibly exasperated by the throttle % input/output.
granted even if they have only changed this throttle input %ratio, but if it makes it drive like a cable operated throttle it can only be a good thing.
It would surely give you more control over the car, make it easier to feather the throttle mid corner etc etc, all for the sake of maybe having to depress the throttle further at times.
me personnaly, i think this would be the map i would go for, especially for track work
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:grin: check out RR on his defence of all his mods. Put this way, i have driven REVO k03 cars at all the stages from stage 1 up to the stage 3 conversion. There is that pause before delivery, and you probably havent noticed as you may not have driven many other cars with different maps, i have and the REVO surge is more noticable than others, possibly exasperated by the throttle % input/output.
granted even if they have only changed this throttle input %ratio, but if it makes it drive like a cable operated throttle it can only be a good thing.
It would surely give you more control over the car, make it easier to feather the throttle mid corner etc etc, all for the sake of maybe having to depress the throttle further at times.
me personnaly, i think this would be the map i would go for, especially for track work
.... :grin: Not intending to be defensive - But by sharing my personal view, even if wrong, it challenges and brings out more info - A good thing for all.
You're right, Sy, I have less experience of different remaps and have got very used to and comfortable with mine. What you say makes great sense and I am interested in this latest Revo product.
It's perhaps not unlike their DSG remap inasmuch that it's a further enhancement.
:happy2:
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exactly.
another thing they could maybe do which would top off an excellent product would be to stop the ECU interupting you when you left foot brake.
shark performancee have a race version of their maps which is the same map but with the above ecu function disabled allowing you to left foot brake
The Race feature offers the ability to left-foot brake without the annoyance of the ECU automatically cutting engine power. This can be particularly useful for trackdays and autotests or for advanced drivers who prefer more control over their driving experience.
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Does anyone know if it's availbale for the Revo 3 KO4 converted cars? I'm probably used to mine but throttle feels ok to me especially compared to some maps i had on my old TDI which was on/off. Apparently the reason for on/off was for quicker response when flooring full belt before the pedal goes to the floor.
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I can't see why not Mickey.
The response i got from Kev was what i posted Earlier.
Best bet is to just ring/email them.
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Little update;
The logs done by Revo when the this new file was fitted showed a slight discrepency between requested and actual fuel rail pressure. It was failing short by an average of 6 - 9bar. An RS4 fuel pressure valve was fitted today and cured the problem immeadiately. Now actual is higher than requested :happy2:. I was told by other members that i needed one but i was a bit sceptical. Well you were right and i,m pleased its cured the glitch.
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How does the glitch manifest when driven ?
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Its just from the logs - you can,t feel anything in the car. It could however point to a failing valve so its worth while getting your car logged.
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do you have the part number ?
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do you have the part number ?
079 130 757
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The throttle pedal requests load and not throttle position via the ECU, with 30% throttle pedal angle you will get around 40% load requested as Blade has said..
Point is, the map is exactly the same, just the correlation between throttle pedal position and load requested is now 1:1.. So there is no lees torque low down with this configuration, you just have to ask for more low down to achieve the same load.. If that makes sense.. Some do feel that there is 'less' simply because they are used to the minimal throttle / large load request..
I have had the linear maps on all my Revo cars.. :smiley:
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my revo map is very smooth, didnt ask for a linear one but im happy with what iv been given..
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id rather have a 1:1 throttle I/O i know that
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Sorry to dig this up.
The thing i don't like with the stock REVO stage 1 map is this, and i think its because my car is DSG.
If you are setting off from standstill and accelerating to 50mph lets say. You press the accelerator down to ~25% and hold it there. As the DSG box goes thru the gears you can feel the car surging in every gear to do the requested load being too high, and because of the non-linear throttle, it makes making fine throttle adjustments up to 50% throttle quite difficult.
Heading to REVO in the morning. :popcornsoda:
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They'll probs just tell you you need the DSG map lol. Drive in manual maybe? Or does it do it when you're driving miss daisy as well?
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I've got the DSG software already. :-)
It can only be felt when accelerating fairly slowly, if you boot it then it just accelerates normally. It'd hard to explain.
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Bump**
The description of an ''on off switch'' describes my car perfectly. I am pleased with the map , the power gain is great , but there is no real control over the throttle. Wheel spin from 1st to 3rd gear can sometimes be hard to control. With this sort of power through the wheels, more control over the throttle is a must especialy through the lower gears.
My car is currently stage1 , anyone any idea of cost? Have contacted jkm but no reply as yet.
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Bump**
The description of an ''on off switch'' describes my car perfectly. I am pleased with the map , the power gain is great , but there is no real control over the throttle. Wheel spin from 1st to 3rd gear can sometimes be hard to control. With this sort of power through the wheels, more control over the throttle is a must especialy through the lower gears.
My car is currently stage1 , anyone any idea of cost? Have contacted jkm but no reply as yet.
£50+vat mate. :happy2:
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Cheers rich.
Did you have this map applied. If so how does the car feel now?
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Cheers rich.
Did you have this map applied. If so how does the car feel now?
Yes had it done a while back (look through my thread). Makes it feel a lot less "ON OFF" in the first 25% of throttle travel and there is now a difference between 75% throttle and 100% throttle.
Its worth it... but it should be part of revos map in the first place, its a bit of a con that you have to pay for it.
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but it should be part of revos map in the first place, its a bit of a con that you have to pay for it.
I could'nt agree more. :wink:
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I think that especially people buying a remap now should have the choice of map at no extra cost.
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Let me know how this goes as I wouldn't mind getting this applied to mine
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i have tested the linear map on an edition 30, personally I prefer the 'normal' map. Didnt have that Revo feel at low throttle.