MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: mclovin on May 24, 2010, 11:03:17 pm
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Hi All,
I haven't been around much recently as my Father has been very ill and sadly passed away a couple of weeks ago. However, I'm hoping someone around here might be able to help me out with an issue regarding an aftermarket warranty on my Mother's car.
As my Father's health deteriorated my Mum really needed a reliable car to get him to and from the hospital so she sold her lovely old Alfa and bought a very sensible 2006 Ford Focus Zetec. When she purchased the car she also purchased a 2 year extended warranty for additional peace of mind. The warranty was supplied by a company called Warranty Management Services (WMS) and its comprehensive, covering pretty much anything that isn't caused by normal wear and tear, it wasn't cheap, but my Mum absolutely needed peace of mind and that's why she purchased it.
Anyway, last week my Mum called me to let me know the car was making a funny grinding noise and she was reluctant to drive it. I popped over at the weekend and quickly diagnosed the noise as a failed power steering pump. I checked the warranty policy and noted that this was covered so this morning she took it to a very good local garage that I know and trust, they confirmed that it was indeed a failed power steering pump.
So far, so good.
Obviously, it is unusual to see a failure like this on a 4 year old Focus with less than 40k on the clock and further investigation revealed that a hose had perished, starving the pump of fluid and ultimately leading to it's failure, the fluid leak had also damaged some minor ancillary items, however, the leak was not noticeable, the fluid reservoir was still above the minimum mark and there was no obvious leak underneath the vehicle.
As the car was covered under warranty, the garage called WMS to get approval for the repairs, however they refused to authorise the repair. They told the garage that as it was just a hose that had failed they would only cover that, not the pump and not the ancillary items. They have justified this by saying that had the perished hose been replaced earlier then the pump would not have failed, in other words that the problem was caused by owner negligence. It doesn't stop there either, they don't actually cover hoses under the terms of the warranty but as a gesture of goodwill they will pay the labour costs of replacing the hose, that's £130. The total cost of the repair is £760. The garage did their best to argue the point and really pushed them hard but they refused to budge on this offer, in fact when my Mum spoke to the workshop manager he was really furious about the whole thing as he knows us well.
Now, my Mother has just been made a widow and my Father had been battling cancer for a number of years, due to this my Mother no longer has any savings, in fact they had to sell their house in France three years ago and last year they had to take out a mortgage on our family house. I'm not looking for sympathy here, just explaining that my Mother's financial situation is not great right now due to circumstance and whilst she is hardly out on the street she really can not afford to find £630 to repair a vehicle that is covered under warranty.
I think this is simply outrageous. The pump failed, it should be replaced under warranty, the fact that a perished hose ultimately led to this failure is irrelevant, there was simply no way to know by having a quick nose under the bonnet, even I didn't spot it when I had a quick look at the weekend and I'm pretty handy around an engine. The problem is, what can I do about it? My mother has turned to me for help and I am, in turn, turning to you guys. Does anyone have any experience with dealing with these aftermarket warranty companies? Do we have a leg to stand on here? Is there any way I can fight this?
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated, thank you all in advance.
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The only way the fookers could claim neglience is if the owner of the vehicle was previously made aware of the perishing hose, and chose not to do anything about it. Before the warranty is taken out, is there no procedure where the vehicle gets checked over before they will cover the car?
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Yes, the vehicle underwent a full series of checks by the garage she bought it from, they also supplied the Warranty and I believe they can only do this if they carry out the checks first.
She has had the car for less than a year.
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dont think they have a leg to stand on, but warranty companies are known to be money grabbing tossers so it looks like you will have a fight on your hands.
All the best mate
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What poverty says - unless they can prove that the driver was aware of the soon to be failed hose then it will be covered. The fact your mum raised the problem at the first sign, then they shouldn't have a leg to stand on. I would get intouch with trading standards or the professional body that oversees the warranty market (I'm sure there will be someone like that to raise the matter with).
Also as long as all the services have been carried out along the way - they really shouldn't have a leg to stand on mate
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I'm with Warranty Direct - and since they are similar I thought I would post the procedure for complaints that they have..
You can skip to the end and take not of the BOLD SECTION
If you have a complaint about any of our services, please let us know so that we have the opportunity to investigate the problem and put things right. You should first send your complaint to:
Managing Director
Warranty Direct Limited
Quadrant House
20 Broad Street Mall
Reading
RG1 7QE
If you are still not satisfied, we will tell you about our procedures and all relevant contact details during each stage of your complaint.
Investigation
A complaint handler will investigate your complaint. They will not have been directly involved in the issue you are complaining about.
Communication
1 If we need to ask you for more information, we will tell you why this is necessary.
2 If we need to take action to settle the problem, we will tell you what action we will take and keep you up to date with any developments.
3 We will give you a clear written explanation for our action. If we need to pay any undisputed amount due under the policy, we will do this quickly and this will not affect your complaint.
4 When we issue our final response, we will give you written details of the next stage of our complaints procedure.
We will keep you informed in line with the following service standards.
1 We will return your phone calls within two working days.
2 When we receive your complaint, we will usually acknowledge this in writing on the same day, but in any case within five working days. The acknowledgement will include the relevant complaint handler's details and a copy of these procedures.
3 Within four weeks of receiving your complaint, they will send you a:
• final response; or
• holding response, which will explain why we cannot yet settle your complaint, and will give you a date by which we will contact you again. You will receive a final response or another holding response within a further four weeks.
4 When we issue our final response, we will give you written details of the next stage of our complaints procedure.
If the matter is still not resolved to your satisfaction you have the right to refer your complaint to:
The Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS)
South Quay Plaza, 183 Marsh Wall,
London, E14 9SR
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You'll get nothing but speculation and here-say here...
As above, go to the Ombudsman. Also get to the CAB and start the ball rolling with the small claims court. The warranty company will not take this to court as it will be cheaper for them to settle.
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These guys will help you out www.consumerdirect.gov.uk
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Can't really offer any advice in addition to what the guys have said. I'm sure if you explain your case to an Ombudsman they will be able to determine how you can proceed. I'm sure they deal with such things everyday and thus should be in a strong position to provide you with the best advice.
Very sorry to hear about your loss and i hope that you get this resolved to a satisfactory conclusion.
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I can't offer any advice on your problem, but I can say that the power steering pipe failure is not unusual on the Focus and in fact is so common that Ford have issued a TSB (technical service bulletin) on that pipe.
I suspect that this is why the warranty company are trying get out of paying, since, in their eyes, this problem should have been picked up before the pump failed.
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Hi everyone and thanks for the advice.
I have done loads of digging on this issue and I too discovered that this is a very common problem on this vehicle. The garage that carried out the repair did so in accordance with Ford's guidelines and as they explained you need to replace three parts, the hose, the union connector and the pump, all three must be replaced at the same time and all three parts are purchased separately. However, the garage is not at fault here, they have done everything by the book. By the way, the vehicle has a full Ford main dealer service history.
According to Consumer Direct I have two options:
1. Argue the case with the Warranty company, but this is likely to end up with me taking them to the small claims court and as we have a very strong case the warranty company will probably settle out of court in the end.
2. Take the matter up with the garage that the car was purchased from as under the Sale of Goods Act (1979) the vehicle supplied is not of satisfactory quality. As this covers any consumer for up to 6 years from date of purchase and the car was only purchased 10 months ago we are entitled to pursue them for a full repair or refund under this act.
Either way, we have a fight on our hands here, but there is some light at the end of the tunnel. For those that are interested, here's how the repair bill breaks down:
£320.92 - Power steering Pump
£89.90 - Hose
£9.97 - Union
£81.00 - Labour (1.1 hours for the pump and 0.7 hours for the hose)
£39.55 - Fan Belt x2 (both belts covered in power steering fluid)
£14.19 - Power steering fluid
£555.53 + VAT - Total Bill
The warranty company are saying all they will pay for is the hose and 0.7 hours labour to fit it. They won't even cough up for the union and the power steering fluid.
My mechanic really argued this point and asked them if the head gasket had failed, what would they cover as part of the repair, the answer? They'd pay for the gasket itself and the stretch bolts, nothing else. In other words this warranty is simply not worth the paper it's printed on.
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Cant you get a full refund from the warranty and use that money to repaid the vehicle
What does the warranty small print T&Cs say?
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Really sorry to hear about your loss mclovin.
I had to sort out an extended warranty problem for someone a couple of years back. Different circumstances, but we managed to prove that the warranty had been mis-sold and the end result was a complete refund of the warranty cost and full reimbursement of the repair costs.
A few more bits of info would be useful:
When was the car purchased? How long elapsed between the purchase of the car and the fault becoming apparent?
Was it purchased from a Ford dealer, another brand dealer or a used car dealer?
Is it back for repair with the supplying dealer?
How was the warranty paid for? As part of the total cost of the vehicle, if so was this financed in any way?
One thing to watch with these warranties is that they have a clause excluding liability for any faults that existed at the time the warranty was taken out. I suspect it is this that they are relying on as their get out clause. So your best chance of a result might be with the supplying dealer rather than the warranty company, but the best way to approach them depends on what sort of dealer they are.
A copy of the warranty T&Cs would be handy.
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Hi Mark, in answer to your questions:
When was the car purchased? June 2009
How long elapsed between the purchase of the car and the fault becoming apparent? 11 months
Was it purchased from a Ford dealer, another brand dealer or a used car dealer? Used car dealer
Is it back for repair with the supplying dealer? No, my Mum attempted to do this but they could not accept the car for at least another 4 days and advised that she took it to a local garage, which she did.
How was the warranty paid for? In cash at the time of purchase of the vehicle
As part of the total cost of the vehicle? No.
If so was this financed in any way? No.
I will have a full copy of the Ts&Cs this weekend and will post them up. Thank you for your help regarding this matter, it really is great to have some support and guidance.
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Another couple of questions - has the car been repaired yet? If so, have you retained the faulty parts?
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The car has been repaired, I don't think the faulty parts have been retained, I could call the garage to check - is this important?
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It's worth asking, just in case. Nothing to worry about if they haven't kept them though.
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Hi Mark,
Parts were not retained, I now have the Ts&Cs, will post them up tomorrow. Any advice on what I should do next or how I should approach this?
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Really need to see the T&Cs mate, we'll go from there.
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Hi Mark,
I have scanned the Ts&Cs and saved them as a PDF that can be downloaded here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?jumzjzofmtd (http://www.mediafire.com/?jumzjzofmtd)
The policy in question is a "5 Star Policy" so I didn't bother scanning in the pages that related to other policies.
Thanks again for helping out with this, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!
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Ok, have downloaded them. Will have a look and get back to you either tonight or tomorrow.
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Thanks again Mark!
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No worries mate. You have PM :)
I've decided to take this offline with mclovin for a while as we might get into areas that he (or indeed she! I have no idea.....) might not want to discuss in public, if there is a result then I will gladly summarise the conversation here so it can be of use to others in the future.
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Many, many thanks for your help regarding this Mark. Hopefully things move forward reasonably smoothly from here, happy to keep the forum updated with the results.
PS - I'm a "he" by the way...
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Fingers crossed for you mate.
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Avoid WMS car warranty company like the plague!! A total rip off, the warranty is not worth the paper it's written on. You should read the terms and conditions, virtually every type of repair is excluded, if you try to claim as I did, it is most likely to be rejected. Plus they are very rude on the phone and don't want to know, except of course if you are buying a warranty, in which case they will be very helpful. A bunch of cowboys
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Haven't read anywhere on this thread but did you go back to the garage who sold your mum the car ?
They may still have some sway with the Warranty company if they still issue their warranties for their second hand sales .
They may be more persuasive as they give the warranty company income unlike yourself/mother who are only after their money :happy2: