MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Hurdy on January 20, 2009, 03:08:05 pm
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I really hope they bring this out over here :drool:
Would be useful for the pod too :rolleye:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4158906
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that will be over here soon i would think
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I wonder if it voids the VW warranty? :laugh:
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I really hope they bring this out over here :drool:
Would be useful for the pod too :rolleye:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4158906
....Excellent link, Hurdy! Greatly enlightening review from "Turn8" on page 1 :happy2:
I haven't seen your question about UK availability answered though :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:
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that will be over here soon i would think
Certainly will mate.. :wink:
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You keeping something to yourself Ben? :jumping:
Robin, my understanding is that the DSG will not change up automatically in manual mode with the remap. It will do in sport and drive though. :smiley:
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^^^^
Cheers, buddy! :drinking:
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You keeping something to yourself Ben? :jumping:
Robin, my understanding is that the DSG will not change automatically in manual mode with the remap. It will do in sport and drive though. :smiley:
Aw crap, I was soo anti this mod and now it just got interesting..
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that would most certainly void the warranty, not that would worry most on here! haha
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^^^^
And quite a few of us are already outside warranty, Jay :happy2:
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Robin, my understanding is that the DSG will not change automatically in manual mode with the remap. It will do in sport and drive though. :smiley:
Aw crap, I was soo anti this mod and now it just got interesting..
....So was I anti this mod - This web site is feckin' fatal!!
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Robin, my understanding is that the DSG will not change automatically in manual mode with the remap. It will do in sport and drive though. :smiley:
Aw crap, I was soo anti this mod and now it just got interesting..
....So was I anti this mod - This web site is feckin' fatal!!
So the slope's getting steeper then Robin :signLOL:
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After talking with Jamie (Superchips Technical Director) and Greenouse about this on Friday when comparing the graphs for the manual vs. DSG I had talked myself out of considering this for the future but now after reading what it can do I want it again :party: :party:
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..I had talked myself out of considering this for the future but now after reading what it can do I want it again :party: :party:
....And you're the fecker who started this terrible web site which forces us to spend all our money on mods!! :evilgrin:
You only have yourself to blame and you're getting no sympathy from me!
:wink:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FRED_INK%2FRRdevil_VWRdemo.jpg&hash=d24722a30d7f9b35f548d77966069cf91455e388)
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....So was I anti this mod - This web site is feckin' fatal!!
So the slope's getting steeper then Robin :signLOL:
....It's just as much YOUR fault too!! :P :angry015:
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You keeping something to yourself Ben? :jumping:
Robin, my understanding is that the DSG will not change up automatically in manual mode with the remap. It will do in sport and drive though. :smiley:
HE has had it done lol
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Yeah there will be something available soon.. :wink: BEN! haha..
The standard DSG system is fantastic from a technical / mechanical point of view but it can be improved so much in so many ways.. Thats what HPA have done..
@ Hurdy.. The DSG car will change up automatically in all modes, hence its impossible to hit the 'lowered' 6500rpm rev limiter..
This is what I want from a DSG re-map.. (some of which the HPA map features)
Raise the launch control to a specified RPM
Raise the rev limit to 7500RPM
Allow full driver control of up-shifts, no more automatic change up at the engine limiter
Disable the HUGELY annoying kick-down feature
Raise the torque limit to 500ft/lbs and get rid of the pulling back that high power/torque DSG cars experience
Sets the shift speed at max for all throttle openings
Speed up the response time from clicking the paddle to the box changing gear
Quicker downshifts
:happy2:
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You keeping something to yourself Ben? :jumping:
Robin, my understanding is that the DSG will not change up automatically in manual mode with the remap. It will do in sport and drive though. :smiley:
HE has had it done lol
No he's not.. :grin:
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You keeping something to yourself Ben? :jumping:
Robin, my understanding is that the DSG will not change up automatically in manual mode with the remap. It will do in sport and drive though. :smiley:
HE has had it done lol
No he's not.. :grin:
oh yes he has :wink: :P
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Yeah there will be something available soon.. :wink: BEN! haha..
The standard DSG system is fantastic from a technical / mechanical point of view but it can be improved so much in so many ways.. Thats what HPA have done..
@ Hurdy.. The DSG car will change up automatically in all modes, hence its impossible to hit the 'lowered' 6500rpm rev limiter..
This is what I want from a DSG re-map.. (some of which the HPA map features)
Raise the launch control to a specified RPM
Raise the rev limit to 7500RPM
Oops posted from iPhone
Where does one get this fitted? Sounds rather good
This is gonna be ben's secret weapon for the pod!
Chap on mkv forum has dyno's with 20hp increase after hpa stage 2, kind of explains the difference in stevp and greenouse figures
Allow full driver control of up-shifts, no more automatic change up at the engine limiter
Disable the HUGELY annoying kick-down feature
Raise the torque limit to 500ft/lbs and get rid of the pulling back that high power/torque DSG cars experience
Sets the shift speed at max for all throttle openings
Speed up the response time from clicking the paddle to the box changing gear
Quicker downshifts
:happy2:
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WantItWantItWantItWantItWantItWantItWantItWantIt
WantItWantItWantItWantItWantItWantItWantItWantIt
WantItWantItWantItWantItWantItWantItWantItWantIt
WantItWantItWantItWantItWantItWantItWantItWantIt
:jumping:
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You keeping something to yourself Ben? :jumping:
Robin, my understanding is that the DSG will not change up automatically in manual mode with the remap. It will do in sport and drive though. :smiley:
HE has had it done lol
No he's not.. :grin:
oh yes he has :wink: :P
A fiver he's not lol.. :P
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You make it sounds like the DSG box is slow.... I know what you mean though.
It would be cool if you coudl switch between modes, I like the sound of a more revving D mode
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^^^^
A more revving D-mode seems to defeat the whole reason for having D-mode. Also it's the low revs which are supposed to result in more fuel economy.
I only ever select D for traffic jam crawls/queues or through villages/towns and I then want it to be lazy and low revving. If I want sharper revs I can use S-mode, or M to select as desired manually.
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S mode is too harsh sometimes - ETTO in the way we use it, ok maybe a more subtle S mode... hell I dont know!
Maybe I'll be happy with a D, S and then A B & C for different days :laugh:
Its late.. I'm off to bed :indifferent:
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^^^^
Lots of people say they find S too harsh sometimes but I don't - Probably because I don't stay in S for long and shift to Manual.
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Its late.. I'm off to bed :indifferent:
....I've noticed that most people here seem to off to bed by midnight.
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You keeping something to yourself Ben? :jumping:
Robin, my understanding is that the DSG will not change up automatically in manual mode with the remap. It will do in sport and drive though. :smiley:
HE has had it done lol
No he's not.. :grin:
oh yes he has :wink: :P
A fiver he's not lol.. :P
I'll come in with ya there Jonny. Then Mat will be buying the death burgers at Pod.. :party:
Raise the launch control to a specified RPM
Raise the rev limit to 7500RPM
Allow full driver control of up-shifts, no more automatic change up at the engine limiter
Disable the HUGELY annoying kick-down feature
Raise the torque limit to 500ft/lbs and get rid of the pulling back that high power/torque DSG cars experience
Sets the shift speed at max for all throttle openings
Speed up the response time from clicking the paddle to the box changing gear
Quicker downshifts
This is the biggy for me, can be so annoying on mine. Do you not get it Jonny, just after changing up about 4500-5000rpm under hard acceleration?
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makes you wonder Ben what your car would run 1/4, with the reduction removed and a faster change !!!!! :evilgrin:
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I don't know if I'd want or need most of the remaps features, but still I find myself falling back to the one real benefit..
I'm not interested in launch control - totally understand why it's required for the S3/R32 owners though.
There's no point raising the limiter on mine, as power is tailing off by then - K04 stuff I'm sure it's a benefit.
I use D mode for economy, so I don't want that playing with. I have a boring 13 mile drive to work and get an average of 37mpg, I'd rather save fuel commuting to burn enthusiastically elsewhere.
But to be able to have 100% control over manual mode is exactly what I want. I wonder if the control box they're planning will allow you to spec individual features?
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Raise the launch control to a specified RPM
Raise the rev limit to 7500RPM
Allow full driver control of up-shifts, no more automatic change up at the engine limiter
Disable the HUGELY annoying kick-down feature
Raise the torque limit to 500ft/lbs and get rid of the pulling back that high power/torque DSG cars experience
Sets the shift speed at max for all throttle openings
Speed up the response time from clicking the paddle to the box changing gear
Quicker downshifts
This is the biggy for me, can be so annoying on mine. Do you not get it Jonny, just after changing up about 4500-5000rpm under hard acceleration?
Yeah mine does it all the time, feels better now with the stage 2+ mapping though I have to say, much smoother..
There is still a lot left in my car, and I think almost all of it is going to come from the DSG! Really cant wait to get something sorted :happy2:
Jonny
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I don't know if I'd want or need most of the remaps features, but still I find myself falling back to the one real benefit..
I'm not interested in launch control - totally understand why it's required for the S3/R32 owners though.
There's no point raising the limiter on mine, as power is tailing off by then - K04 stuff I'm sure it's a benefit.
I use D mode for economy, so I don't want that playing with. I have a boring 13 mile drive to work and get an average of 37mpg, I'd rather save fuel commuting to burn enthusiastically elsewhere.
But to be able to have 100% control over manual mode is exactly what I want. I wonder if the control box they're planning will allow you to spec individual features?
....That's exactly what I think too - I'm simply not interested in LC and I want D to remain as is otherwise it's pointless having it and S-mode will do nicely. Even more control over the M-mode would be a plus but I don't find it lacking on a K03 Revo'd GTI - Afterall I'm neither racing against other cars nor against the clock, but just making fast progress as conditions allow.
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As far as I know the DSG map only changes the characteristics of the DSG when in M mode..
I think the map will make the car faster for sure, but mostly I would say the benefit would come in having full control over the car like a manual but with the added benefit of the DSG gearchange..
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As far as I know the DSG map only changes the characteristics of the DSG when in M mode..
I think the map will make the car faster for sure, but mostly I would say the benefit would come in having full control over the car like a manual but with the added benefit of the DSG gearchange..
....Damn!! That sounds too good to pass over! However, I've never felt I was missing control of the gears in DSG-M but I've missed gears in the 300R you're currently driving, Jonny.
Good is good, but better is best!
Nurse! Nurse! I need help! There's lots of us here who need help. It should be called a ward, not a forum.
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As far as I know the DSG map only changes the characteristics of the DSG when in M mode..
I think the map will make the car faster for sure, but mostly I would say the benefit would come in having full control over the car like a manual but with the added benefit of the DSG gearchange..
....Damn!! That sounds too good to pass over! However, I've never felt I was missing control of the gears in DSG-M but I've missed gears in the 300R you're currently driving, Jonny.
Good is good, but better is best!
Nurse! Nurse! I need help! There's lots of us here who need help. It should be called a ward, not a forum.
Ill get it done first and let you know what its like, how's that sound lol..
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Nurse! Nurse! I need help! There's lots of us here who need help. It should be called a ward, not a forum.
Ill get it done first and let you know what its like, how's that sound lol..
.... :signLOL: You're not helping any of us feel any better!
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FRED_INK%2FRRdevil_VWRdemo.jpg&hash=d24722a30d7f9b35f548d77966069cf91455e388)
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for me the interesting questions are why VW chose what appear to be very conservative limits for torque/shift time/clamping loads etc.
Ok they usually have generous headroom but the box 'seems' to allow so much more.
Wonder what the weak link is ? or was it just to ensure good reliability?
They always said it was torque limited for high output applications but maybe that isnt the whole story?
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^^^^
I don't know the answers but I'm wondering if VW wanted to play it particularly safe because of the initial difficulties in selling the DSG option to customers because of their perception that DSG is more complex than it actually is and therefore can easily go wrong and be very expensive to put right.
My thinking is possibly supported by the fact that VW dealers (AFAIK) aren't allowed to do DSG work apart from servicing and that faults, even outside warranty, are sometimes repaired FOC.
I'm speculating though.
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Its a bit strange..
The Manual 6 speed box is running in american with almost 700BHP on huge drag slicks and has almost broken into the 10 second bracket, with the only modification being the clutch
The DSG box is supposedly stronger than the manual box, but the clutch is a lot weaker.. I think thats why there is a torque limit in the DSG software..
Saying that, there is a guy in the states running 420WHP which is getting on for 500BHP with DSG and the stage 2 HPA DSG flash and has no problems, not one flutter..
Personally I think the DSG box is super strong and reliable, there has been a huge amount of scare mongering, but nothing to back it up!
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Jonny are you not experiencing that wierd clutch slip that Hurdy started getting, your mods must have taken you past his figures by now. :chicken:
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Jonny are you not experiencing that wierd clutch slip that Hurdy started getting, your mods must have taken you past his figures by now. :chicken:
Nope none of that. The car only has 15k on it though and I have only had it for 2k miles.. Also having a full DSG service completed while the car is in at VWR and ill be doing that (and engine service) every 3k miles from now on..
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I may have missed it somwhere, but are you going to look for a DSG clutch upgrade when you bolt on the big turbo. :smiley:
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I may have missed it somwhere, but are you going to look for a DSG clutch upgrade when you bolt on the big turbo. :smiley:
Well im going to keep an eye on this guy in the US who has the GT3071R turbo and has just made 417WHP.. He's running stock DSG apart from the reflash so if he's running ok with that then I would probably leave it..
If I do decide to go BT it would be a GT3071R with Revo software.. I would need to have rods installed at the same time though to make sure that the engine didn't grenade itself..
500BHP in a FWD Golf GTI weighing in at 1100KG.. Thats going to be quick hey! :wink: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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500BHP in a FWD Golf GTI weighing in at 1100KG.. Thats going to be quick hey! :wink: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
....The words "like sh!t off a shovel!" come to mind :laugh:
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Speaking about big numbers, i was reading in performance VW about JD in Holland developing a stage 8 with well over 500BHP for the Mk 5 platform the other 7 stages where already done. :party: :chicken: :chicken: :chicken:
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Speaking about big numbers, i was reading in performance VW about JD in Holland developing a stage 8 with well over 500BHP for the Mk 5 platform the other 7 stages where already done. :party: :chicken: :chicken: :chicken:
Stage 8 lol..
Well I could run up to 575 Crank HP with the turbo Im thinking of but im really not confident about the DSG at that power with the stock clutches..
Also there comes the point at which that power is going to only be usable over 120mph, which is pretty pointless on the road..
If I went BT on this car then the power I would aim for would be a reliable, and repeatable 475 crank HP. Before I get to that point im planning on sorting everything else out, and I mean everything!
Really the last part of the car that I would need to address once I finish the plans that I already have the car would be to allow modify the car such that it would enable me to run a 265/35/18 tyre, so that means lots of work for the arches, wide front arches and flared rears, 9inch wide rims etc etc.. That would really help with the traction!
Jonny
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Really the last part of the car that I would need to address once I finish the plans that I already have the car would be to allow modify the car such that it would enable me to run a 265/35/18 tyre, so that means lots of work for the arches, wide front arches and flared rears, 9inch wide rims etc etc.. That would really help with the traction!
....Don't let Hurdy read this! :evilgrin:
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Really the last part of the car that I would need to address once I finish the plans that I already have the car would be to allow modify the car such that it would enable me to run a 265/35/18 tyre, so that means lots of work for the arches, wide front arches and flared rears, 9inch wide rims etc etc.. That would really help with the traction!
....Don't let Hurdy read this! :evilgrin:
LOL,
I've been looking at changing to 245 section tyres on the 18's for track use later this year R888's or Yoko's A048's and they should fit without arch modification :wink:
265 section = nirvana :happy2:
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As i understood it, the torque limit on the dsg 'box is for mechanical reasons (i.e. the components of the 'box can't handle the extra torque). Is this true, or is it more of a software (ecu) thing?
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Ahh, just winding back a touch to JonnyC's response I see they don't touch the D-mode until you're in the realms of the Stage 3R.
http://www.hpamotorsports.com/dsg.htm
I would consider the Stage 1, purely for the control over the manual shifts. There's nothing more annoying than having it boot up a gear mid corner when you're steeering on the throttle.
Also, having looked apparently the DSG shifts up in 8 milliseconds, so 60% faster isn't really that much although sounding impressive. I presume they've done the work on how fast the power comes back in to improve it that way?
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Yeah the stage 3 seems a bit pointless to me, if it makes D mode anything like S then it would be a step backwards IMO.
I know that they play around with the clutch engagement points and pressure etc so it does make the shift faster
Jonny
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As i understood it, the torque limit on the dsg 'box is for mechanical reasons (i.e. the components of the 'box can't handle the extra torque). Is this true, or is it more of a software (ecu) thing?
You are partly right Stiggy.
The 350nm rating of the DSG box is there for the longevity of the 'box. Increasing the torque through the 'box will inevitably reduce the lifespan of it. Slippage occurs due to the regulation of the clamping pressure and the pressure can be altered with remapping. The components withing the 'box should be okay to 400bhp and similar torque as in the original link. :smiley:
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Yeah the stage 3 seems a bit pointless to me, if it makes D mode anything like S then it would be a step backwards IMO.
I know that they play around with the clutch engagement points and pressure etc so it does make the shift faster
Jonny
I see now, I think - so nothing to do with the mechanical switching of the gears. On upshift, the 'box kind of drags the clutch a little, dialling in the power gradually to make a smooth transition. The HPA speeds up this transition process so full power can be applied quicker, thus making faster shifts that way?
I agree on the S mode too, it's too frantic and I can't get used to it. I just use D for docile and M for manic. :happy2:
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Yeah thats about it mate :happy2: The power is reduced as you approach the red line too, and power is gradually fed in (very fast) but still not full power right after the gear change is made..
Should make it a lot more aggressive, whilst still being smooth.. :laugh:
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Interesting, so could the reason I see power tail off on a RR graph be because of the DSG limiting instead of, as I thought, the turbo running out of puff? Meaning the increase in redline might actually be of benefit??
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Interesting, so could the reason I see power tail off on a RR graph be because of the DSG limiting instead of, as I thought, the turbo running out of puff? Meaning the increase in redline might actually be of benefit??
Exactamundo :happy2:
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****!, that's more of my good money going down the pan then, although I'm in no rush... I think I'll wait and see who detonates a box in the States first though :wink:
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The K04 keeps making power until 7250rpm ish.. The tail off at 6500rpm is the soft cut limiter engaging.. Lots to come from the DSG map IMO!
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****!, that's more of my good money going down the pan then, although I'm in no rush... I think I'll wait and see who detonates a box in the States first though :wink:
Most of them tend to be detonating the rods first :signLOL:
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I've only got the vanilla KO3 though :ashamed:
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****!, that's more of my good money going down the pan then, although I'm in no rush... I think I'll wait and see who detonates a box in the States first though :wink:
Most of them tend to be detonating the rods first :signLOL:
Yep! Like I said, the car to watch is this one.. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4058798&page=7
Have a good read but the jist of it is that he's now running an ATP GT3071R turbo kit with IE rods and on his last dyno he made 417WHP which is around 475-490 crank HP depending on what you believe the DSG losses to be.. On a completely stock (mechanically) DSG gearbox, drag racing on slicks, using the car every day, etc etc.. No problems what so ever! Pretty good sign really..