MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Rob GTI on June 03, 2010, 09:48:58 pm
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Well nearly....
The car is 3 yrs old at the end of the month and I thought I'd get the MOT early in case there are any issues that I can get sorted under warranty.
Anyway the car nearly failed on the emissions well technically it did but the tester gave me a pass with an advisory. The lambda reading was 1.7 and needs 1.3 to pass. It was suggested that the car was running lean.
I have REVO stage 1, dbilas intake and milltek TBE. I switched the map off and it still failed, no codes are logged with VCDS, anyone got any ideas?
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de catted ?
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Or faulty Cat?
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you running v power? does it need a thrapping?
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Probably best that you take this up with REVO rather than a bunch of strangers guessing............................
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No not decatted, single Milltek sports cat on it.
Btw: REVO settings are B7 T5 F7
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Probably best that you take this up with REVO rather than a bunch of strangers guessing............................
Aye I will do that tommorrow, well with my tuner first and then REVO. Just thought I'd ask here first in case anyone else had similar.
Strangers??? I'd though we were all friends here :grin:
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as jhtrophy says you need to get the cat red hot before the test ie go rape it :grin: as thats what will need doing
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you running v power? does it need a thrapping?
Always run on V Power or Tesco 99.
Always given a thrapping too.
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Probably best that you take this up with REVO rather than a bunch of strangers guessing............................
Aye I will do that tommorrow, well with my tuner first and then REVO. Just thought I'd ask here first in case anyone else had similar.
Strangers??? I'd though we were all friends here :grin:
Some are stranger than others! :laugh:
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as jhtrophy says you need to get the cat red hot before the test ie go rape it :grin: as thats what will need doing
Aye my tuner recommended that as well (before the test - not spoke to then since). It had been driven for about 45 prior to test, including one brief trip to the red line in 2nd. What with the 25 degrees outside I though that would be enough.
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well it need plugging into vagcom and logging doing i think but Revo can do that for you
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best ask my tuner what to log then as I new to VCDS and only really know how to run a scan and change a few comfort settings.
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timmyboy on here(with a vRS) failed his mot on missions, it turned out to be his cat on his piper downpipe was fooked. he changed Dp and all was good
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did you give the car a good run and warm up before the mot..
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I would first check your fuel trim (block 031). You can do this without starting the car.
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What values should I expecting to see - for normal and if something is wrong. If something is wrong what needs doing??
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Lambda sensor faulty??.
I think i have the same issue, but had no problem with MOT failure with it. It passed on that ok. But getting an error showing up on vcds.
(lean Bank error?) or something like that.
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check values first but assuming code wont let it get too lean , id let it warm up and thrap it silly.
WOT to redline and keep doing it to get the cat well hot ...outside temp of 25deg is irrelevant with the temp the cat needs to be at to do its thing
unless you have bump started the car , it would be unusual for the cat to be knacked.
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check values first but assuming code wont let it get too lean , id let it warm up and thrap it silly.
WOT to redline and keep doing it to get the cat well hot ...outside temp of 25deg is irrelevant with the temp the cat needs to be at to do its thing
unless you have bump started the car , it would be unusual for the cat to be knacked.
Don't suppose I've given the car a really hard time lately, suppose I'd better get to work :party:
Don't mean to sound thick but what does WOT stand for?
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check values first but assuming code wont let it get too lean , id let it warm up and thrap it silly.
WOT to redline and keep doing it to get the cat well hot ...outside temp of 25deg is irrelevant with the temp the cat needs to be at to do its thing
unless you have bump started the car , it would be unusual for the cat to be knacked.
Don't suppose I've given the car a really hard time lately, suppose I'd better get to work :party:
Don't mean to sound thick but what does WOT stand for?
wide open throttle.
Apparently there was a mk5 gti with a decat that passed its emissions test.
What about sticking the car into valet mode during the test lol
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If the car is running lean I blame the dbilas intake for having the wrong sectioned MAF area.
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Probably best that you take this up with REVO rather than a bunch of strangers guessing............................
Strangers??? I'd though we were all friends here :grin:
Some are stranger than others! :laugh:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FDetailing%2FStickers%2FMask.jpg&hash=0c7f6b5539bc31c2b852b6e763496aa0f8338ae1)
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Hi Guys
The direct petrol injection cars run a higher rpm range while on the test. Not many testers are doing this and the cars are failing.
I cant remember what RPM range they should be held at but this is a defo issue.
hope this helps before you go out and spend money on something that is not faulty.
Iain
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Sounds like we should get MOTs done at VW.
Hopefully they know about the higher rev range for the test.
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^^^^
I've had both my MOT's done by my VW dealer - The first one was free and I know the folks there very well and they know my car and its mods from new and no problem yet. It's not worth saving a £fiver or even a £tenner by going somewhere else imo.
I'm Revo2 plus Milltek TBE custom (VWR type backbox etc). This July will be my first MOT with the Forge Twintake installed.
Isn't the MOT emissions failure more likely to be possibly exhaust/cat related rather than Revo remap?
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Poor quality Catalysers can indeed cause emissions failures.
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.
Banging the cat box with the side of your fist and hearing a rattle is an easy way to tell if your cat is on the way out.
I think that cats can also fail through being subjected to too much heat and consequently melting. Which in turn may be the result of other influences, but I'm not an expert.
Milltek went through a period of cat probs but now use top notch German ones AFAIK.
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Hi Guys
The direct petrol injection cars run a higher rpm range while on the test. Not many testers are doing this and the cars are failing.
I cant remember what RPM range they should be held at but this is a defo issue.
hope this helps before you go out and spend money on something that is not faulty.
Iain
The car was held at about 2.5 - 3k revs for the test, not sure if this is right but will raise this with my tuner if they ever call me back.
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Isn't the MOT emissions failure more likely to be possibly exhaust/cat related rather than Revo remap?
Thats why I am contacting my tuner first as it could be either the map, intake or exhaust. Personally I don't think its the map beacuse it failed with the map and and off. BUT I'm not expert and am only guessing.
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I had my car pass it's mot and I'm REVO stage 2+
I got it done at the Skoda dealer though. I have EVOMS & Miltek TBE.
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How old is the cat??
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkittehjokescc.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F04%2Fbirthday-cat.jpg&hash=f521de49641bb7ce8dcbbb50ac11e4d330967f0a)
As the others have said above take the car for a bit of a thrashing first keep the revs above 4k for a while this should get the cat up to temp. When you took if for the test did they test the car straight away or did they leave the car outside for a while first? If they left the car for a while the engine and exhaust would of cooled down anyway. Not sure how taking the car for a thrash would bring the emissions down though :confused:
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Im maybe talking complete Pi55 here, but from my understanding you are running lean, i was wondering if this could be to do with the fact that you are running stage 1 software with stage 2 hardware and the revo settings have not been alterd to suit the fact you are stuffing more air in to the engine. With the car being revd in to the mid range for the mot this would give the exact rev range in which the oem fuel pump cant deliver the requested fuel resulting in fuel cuts and the car running lean
so maybe getting the settings backed down could be an option or the fitment of a HPFP would richen the Air fuel ratio in the mid range.
Just my 2P, i was told not to fit my ITG intake until my fuel pump was fitted for this exact reason, (im with GIAC though NoN adjustable)
It has been shown that the pump cant even keep up with stage 1 maps correctly, never mind with the addition of an intake and zorst.
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^^^^^ you have a point doesnt REVO recomend F9 with a standard pump?
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^^^^
Yea i seen a very informative post on here about HPFPs and even the OEM pump on F9 cant match the fuel required for a stage 1 car with no hardware so this is going to be a lot worse with the hardware, TBH there were even times it couldnt keep up with the standard map in the mid range !
I think an HPFP and intercooler are a must on any mapped 2.0T Vag engine from the info ive recieved, keeping temperatures down is always a good idea.
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^^^^
Hmm.. I have the stock oem fuel pump and have ran on Revo1 long term and also Revo2 for some time (nearly 2 years IIRC) plus a Forge Twintake more recently. JKM's meticulous dyno testing and logging show absolutely no need to change from the oem pump on my car and I have never experienced any fuel cuts or similar.
Revo and ITG jumped into bed with each other and I can't comment on the HPFP in that context other than they recommend a pump upgrade.
I've forgotten what F setting on Revo2 I'm currently running but it's as JKM recommend for my individual car. And that's the point: Surely generic F/T/B settings can only be tweaked according to the individual car and its modifications. The beauty of Revo is that you can fine tune accordingly.
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^^^ Thats the benifit of revo custom tuning mate, unfortunatly ive not got that option with GIAC. I think he is running stage 1 software though with stage 2 hardware, so i was just saying that its maybe possible that his settings have possibly not been tweaked for his mods yet, therfore running lean
i still think an HPFP is best to be added, as one of the s3 owners on here posted up logs and there were points on the stage 1 map with no hardware added where the pump was underfueling, which ultimately will result in higher temperatures, they still might be within the safety parameters but not ideal, Fair enough in adding the HPFP you might end up with higher cam follower ware and the worry of runing an untested pump which could leak fuel, thats why i will check the follower every service and Use the APR pump for extra piece of mind, if you are sneaky you can talk Awesome GTI down to £700, plus i think the money will be made back in resale values anyway, saying that you very rarely hear any problems with the Autotech !
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My settings were orginally for just plain old stage one, when I added my TBE and intake I asked about changing settings and told it wasn't neccessary. I asked about stage 2 and was told I would get fuel cuts unless the setting were turned down a bit.
I have ordered a APR HPFP but this was before this issue. Obviously when this gets fitted I will have the emissions issue looked into and solved at the same time, hopefully.
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^^^^^ you have a point doesnt REVO recomend F9 with a standard pump?
Yes they do. :smiley:
@RR, your fuel setting is F8... :smiley:
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^^^^^ you have a point doesnt REVO recomend F9 with a standard pump?
Yes they do. :smiley:
@RR, your fuel setting is F8... :smiley:
....So I guess my Revo2 F setting was turned down one notch to accommodate oem pump with Twintake addition. APR pump, though expensive, is the way I would go but I don't intend to mod to Revo2+ for lots of reasons. I'd rather do an intercooler than a pump, unless the HPFP is really needed.
Mine is a good example of how having Revo fine tunable settings has saved me hundreds of pounds by my not needing a HPFP.
How the heck do you know my settings!? :surprised: :scared: :grin: Perhaps I posted them somewhere.
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....So I guess my Revo2 F setting was turned down one notch to accommodate oem pump with Twintake
Yup, one notch lower increases the fueling.
How the heck do you know my settings!? :surprised: :scared: :grin:
Don't get paranoid RR but do keep an eye in your rear view mirror... :laugh:
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custom code stage 1 dont need no hpfp , its PERFECT inevery way without it :happy2:
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custom code stage 1 dont need no hpfp , its PERFECT inevery way without it :happy2:
im going to have to agree the remap shouldnt ask for fueling that the car cannot meet. my stage 1 appears to be matching my requested rail pressure with no issues
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Check out this, everyones map might be with in safe parameters but i believe everyone with a mapped car will suffer from this if they dont have an HPFP i cant see how it wouldnt as the 2.0t engines are massivly beefed up in the midrange through any map i believe
If you disagree please explain so i can understand it more, :happy2:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14350.msg211639.html#msg211639
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Check out this, everyones map might be with in safe parameters but i believe everyone with a mapped car will suffer from this if they dont have an HPFP
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14350.msg211639.html#msg211639
That's really only applicable to k04 cars... :smiley:
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Check out this, everyones map might be with in safe parameters but i believe everyone with a mapped car will suffer from this if they dont have an HPFP i cant see how it wouldnt as the 2.0t engines are massivly beefed up in the midrange through any map i believe
If you disagree please explain so i can understand it more, :happy2:
exactly REVO are asking for fueling that a stock pump cant supply :stupid: :stupid:
mine doesnt request more than it can, it produces exactly what is specified accross the entire RPM. from looking at other guys logs on Vwvortex, it seems like APR stage 1 cars also meet requested.
it does look very much like revo ask for a higher rail pressure than other tuners
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That's really only applicable to k04 cars... :smiley:
Yea rob has a k04 car :happy2:
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i ve had 2 ko4 cars stage 1 custom coded , both brilliant in every way and both nearly half the cost of some other tuners :booty:
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here's my stage 1 rail pressure on stock pump. well within the limits, which to be fair i think is more important than maxing everything out. when i had the stage 2+ the map requested 130bar because it was achievable with the uprated HPFP. no point requesting something that cant be made, the car will have to pull back
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi756.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx202%2Fsimonskerton%2Frailpressure.jpg&hash=a0e30f5a44acd5f5af318df9970eaa0aaf3d069c)
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i ve had 2 ko4 cars stage 1 custom coded , both brilliant in every way and both nearly half the cost of some other tuners :booty:
and the relevance to this thread is what? :indifferent:
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and the relevance to this thread is what? :indifferent:
Put them claws away :grin: :grin:
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exactly REVO are asking for fueling that a stock pump cant supply :stupid: :stupid:
mine doesnt request more than it can, it produces exactly what is specified accross the entire RPM. from looking at other guys logs on Vwvortex, it seems like APR stage 1 cars also meet requested.
it does look very much like revo ask for a higher rail pressure than other tuners
Giac dealers also recommend an HPFP with stage 1, im not sure if they request more than delivery like revo as ive not seen any logs for giac software, but i was thinking they must if they are recommending an HPFP, i was told not to even considder fitting my ITG until i had an HPFP.
Why would a tuner as big as revo ask for more fuel than than the car can deliver, thats not right !
Well if bens ED30 has revo stage 1 where the fuel pump is struggling from the start, surely the addition of the intake and exhaust is going to cause a further leaner mix and possibly triggering this fault
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i ve had 2 ko4 cars stage 1 custom coded , both brilliant in every way and both nearly half the cost of some other tuners :booty:
and the relevance to this thread is what? :indifferent:
imo at stage 1 revo is not the best map for the tfsi ...................
by a good way :wink:
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i ve had 2 ko4 cars stage 1 custom coded , both brilliant in every way and both nearly half the cost of some other tuners :booty:
and the relevance to this thread is what? :indifferent:
imo at stage 1 revo is not the best map for the tfsi ...................
by a good way :wink:
Yes but as we know that is your opinion and as we also know opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. :happy2:
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.......opinion and as we also know opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. :happy2:
And they usually stink :laugh: :laugh:
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i ve had 2 ko4 cars stage 1 custom coded , both brilliant in every way and both nearly half the cost of some other tuners :booty:
and the relevance to this thread is what? :indifferent:
imo at stage 1 revo is not the best map for the tfsi ...................
by a good way :wink:
News flash : Ian has been on the red wine again and tries to turn a emission's thread into " My custard code is better than yours" thread. :rolleye:
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exactly REVO are asking for fueling that a stock pump cant supply :stupid: :stupid:
mine doesnt request more than it can, it produces exactly what is specified accross the entire RPM. from looking at other guys logs on Vwvortex, it seems like APR stage 1 cars also meet requested.
it does look very much like revo ask for a higher rail pressure than other tuners
Giac dealers also recommend an HPFP with stage 1, im not sure if they request more than delivery like revo as ive not seen any logs for giac software, but i was thinking they must if they are recommending an HPFP, i was told not to even considder fitting my ITG until i had an HPFP.
Why would a tuner as big as revo ask for more fuel than than the car can deliver, thats not right !
Well if bens ED30 has revo stage 1 where the fuel pump is struggling from the start, surely the addition of the intake and exhaust is going to cause a further leaner mix and possibly triggering this fault
i agree , stage 1 is designed to be used with a standard car , if intakes and tbe are to be used thats what stage 2 is for , then stage 2+is when you ve fitted a hpfp
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i ve had 2 ko4 cars stage 1 custom coded , both brilliant in every way and both nearly half the cost of some other tuners :booty:
and the relevance to this thread is what? :indifferent:
imo at stage 1 revo is not the best map for the tfsi ...................
by a good way :wink:
News flash : Ian has been on the red wine again and tries to turn a emission's thread into " My custard code is better than yours" thread. :rolleye:
i dont give 2 hoots tc :laugh: after tuesday i wont be needing any custom code or remaps :wink:
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i ve had 2 ko4 cars stage 1 custom coded , both brilliant in every way and both nearly half the cost of some other tuners :booty:
and the relevance to this thread is what? :indifferent:
imo at stage 1 revo is not the best map for the tfsi ...................
by a good way :wink:
News flash : Ian has been on the red wine again and tries to turn a emission's thread into " My custard code is better than yours" thread. :rolleye:
i dont give 2 hoots tc :laugh: after tuesday i wont be needing any custom code or remaps :wink:
No need to end it all over a remap. :confused:
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^^^ :notworthy: :notworthy: :signLOL: :signLOL:
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Guys I think you are getting a bit carried away here.
For K04 cars I have seen both APR and REVO requesting upwards of 125 bar HPFP rail pressure. This is completely normal on a stage 1 K04 map!!!
It is actually needed as well to be able to maintain AFR as the K04 will be boosting more and sucking in more air than a K03.
With REVO if you want to have the adjustability to up your boost and not have to worry about your rail pressure dropping then a HPFP is great addition to the stage 1 map. On my car I could not go past B6 before the HPFP rail pressure started dropping.
My car is an absolute rocket now at stage 1 with the HPFP and this is an upgrade I would recommend to anyone. It brings other benefits as well which are discussed in my review.
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i ve had 2 ko4 cars stage 1 custom coded , both brilliant in every way and both nearly half the cost of some other tuners :booty:
and the relevance to this thread is what? :indifferent:
imo at stage 1 revo is not the best map for the tfsi ...................
by a good way :wink:
News flash : Ian has been on the red wine again and tries to turn a emission's thread into " My custard code is better than yours" thread. :rolleye:
i dont give 2 hoots tc :laugh: after tuesday i wont be needing any custom code or remaps :wink:
No need to end it all over a remap. :confused:
PMSL. :signLOL:
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i ve had 2 ko4 cars stage 1 custom coded , both brilliant in every way and both nearly half the cost of some other tuners :booty:
and the relevance to this thread is what? :indifferent:
imo at stage 1 revo is not the best map for the tfsi ...................
by a good way :wink:
News flash : Ian has been on the red wine again and tries to turn a emission's thread into " My custard code is better than yours" thread. :rolleye:
i dont give 2 hoots tc :laugh: after tuesday i wont be needing any custom code or remaps :wink:
No need to end it all over a remap. :confused:
:laugh: ive just brought a proper car :booty:
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oh yes u have and its very nice too :jumpmove:
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I thought the S3 was the best car in the world. What is it that you think isn't proper. :evilgrin:
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:laugh: ive just brought a proper car :booty:
Please do tell. :party:
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO dont tell them before u get it :laugh:
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I thought the S3 was the best car in the world. What is it that you think isn't proper. :evilgrin:
the s3 is the best vag hot hatch there is but some other cars are just in a different league :driver:
i ve drove fast hatch backs for 20 years and they are fast but last week things changed for me :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO dont tell them before u get it :laugh:
dont worry mat i dont intend to ,ive still not stopped smiling yet :wink:
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO dont tell them before u get it :laugh:
dont worry mat i dont intend to ,ive still not stopped smiling yet :wink:
:signLOL: :jumpmove: good man
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porsche :happy2:
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porsche :happy2:
:confused:
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congrats mate, mat showed me pic!!! awsome :happy2:
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FWIW last time I logged my stg1 APR ED30 it requests 130 bar (and meets it) at some stages. :happy2:
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Returning to the emissions problem, I would start with the basics. High lambda reading is weak mixture, look for an unmetered air leak, ie air entering after the MAF.
Check vacuum hoses for splits and PCV, also check exhaust for leaks.