MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: dajonic on June 12, 2010, 02:35:41 pm
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If you have there kit do you have to use their pads or are the pads a generic fitment, giving you the chance to try other manufacturers pads?
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I'd always use the pads which a brake manufacturer recommends or supplies their kit with. So, on my AP Racing BBK I wouldn't use any other pad without asking AP's advice first.
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Thanks.
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I'm not sure that was the OP's question, Robin? I can't say I agree with what you say either.
Anyone selling a BBK for a road car will sell it you with road biased pads. If they provided something meaty they'd have every set sent back, because your average Joe doesn't understand the associated noise/dust/cold bite problems you get with proper pads.
DS2500's are very common in BBKs because they're relatively well mannered for fast road car in terms of the noise/dust/bite - does this make them the best pad though? Absolutely not, but then 90% of BBK buyers won't use them to their full potential and ever find out the pad's limits, so they're happy as Larry - happy customers are good.
If the BBK came with something hardcore, they'd have that same 90% ringing up complaining they were too noisy/dusty/ineffective when cold and they want their money back, so the BBK manufacturer plays safe - unhappy customers are bad.
Basically you get a middle of the road, everyone's happy pad.
Buy a race kit from the same AP/Alcon/Brembo/other and they don't generally supply pads, simply because the variation in driver's style, type of racing (sprint/endurance/etc) and cars means the best person to decide what's the best pad, is the customer.
Look on the CaparoAP website and see if it is a 'type' - Lots of the most common calipers share a pad family, once known you can see what manufacturers make a pad and choose a compound that suits your requirements.
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Anyone selling a BBK for a road car will sell it you with road biased pads. If they provided something meaty they'd have every set sent back, because your average Joe doesn't understand the associated noise/dust/cold bite problems you get with proper pads.
DS2500's are very common in BBKs because they're relatively well mannered for fast road car in terms of the noise/dust/bite - does this make them the best pad though? Absolutely not, but then 90% of BBK buyers won't use them to their full potential and ever find out the pad's limits, so they're happy as Larry - happy customers are good.
....Yep, DS2500's were supplied with my AP BBK's and my principal use is 'fast road' and, so far, absolutely good enough for the way I drive on trackdays - So they are practical and 'best' for me - What you call "proper" pads are merely what you consider best for you. My DS2500's were decided as a result of direct consultation with AP and also fitted by them. My next front pads will be their own - Again as a result of talking directly with them.
To put this into context, if I had VWR brakes I would take much more notice of their advice than anyone else. I don't think it's wise to rely soley on the advice of someone on the internet (including myself!).
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With all due respect, Robin, the pads could have set on fire, punched you in the face and robbed your house and we'd never have heard about it. You don't report negative issues. Now, this is great for you and your relationships, but it is useless for anyone wanting first hand factual experience of a product or service.
I heard something very interesting straight from the horse's mouth at AP about them using DS2500s, which is what my post is loosely based on.
You can't insult the OP's intelligence and knowledge, he was simply looking to know what options he has. "Do as you're told" isn't really a helpful response.
VWR wont have tested every pad, there's no way - so how can they tell you what is best?
What I'd be asking is them to provide temp ranges of the discs in both a fast road and track environment, then I'd be researching each manufacturers compound that works in those ranges and finding out the pros and cons of all of them. Then I'd discuss all my findings with VWR.
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the pads could have set on fire, punched you in the face and robbed your house
:signLOL:
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@ tony_danza:
Not true! I do report negatives - I suggest you read my reviews more thoroughly. I report honestly and share how I see things, ultimately it's up to the reader to make up their own mind about a product.
I think you miss my point - I'm not saying "do as you're told", I'm saying don't SOLELY take the advice of self-appointed internet experts but ALSO take note of what the brake supplier/manufacturer/designer has to say.. No more, no less.
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You'll notice I didn't recommend a pad, he didn't even ask anyone to either. I'll happily tell him what I use and what I think of them, but he needs to make his own mind up supported by good research, reviews and support from VWR.
I don't mean cons, Robin. I mean bad experiences.
Lets say AP had told you to put DS2500s in, you'd gone and done a track day and melted them, causing judder. Pads scrap, discs have to be reground.
You'd sort the problem with AP and no mention of it outside of those 4 walls would be made, which is honourable, too many people bitch rather than fix.
However, if someone posted up saying their AP/DS2500 kit was juddering, I don't think you'd share your experience in the interests of keeping your nice relationship sweet instead. Same could be said of VWR etc.
I do understand why, don't get me wrong, but as long as it is first hand and factual I don't see a problem.
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You'll notice I didn't recommend a pad, he didn't even ask anyone to either. I'll happily tell him what I use and what I think of them, but he needs to make his own mind up supported by good research, reviews and support from VWR.
I don't mean cons, Robin. I mean bad experiences.
Lets say AP had told you to put DS2500s in, you'd gone and done a track day and melted them, causing judder.
You'd sort the problem with AP and no mention of it outside of those 4 walls would be made, which is honourable, too many people bitch rather than fix.
However, if someone posted up saying their AP/DS2500 kit was juddering, I don't think you'd share your experience in the interests of keeping your nice relationship sweet instead. Same could be said of VWR etc.
I do understand why, don't get me wrong, but as long as it is first hand and factual I don't see a problem.
....Yes, my first port of call would most definitely be with AP or whoever and I very much follow the 'fix-before-bitch' route and I find that 99% of my issues get fixed. I do share my negative experiences (Nitros helmet being my most recent one) but I believe in considering them in the context of the overall - It's too easy and also too unfair to overdo the negatives. Example: VWR mechanic drops a spanner on my alloy and marks it.. I don't report it because anyone can drop a spanner and reporting it could cause people to unfairly judge that VWR are careless in everything they do and that's definitely not my experience - If it was my experience I'd stop using them and post accordingly.
I do try to maintain a balance: I'm neither sworn to a rigid lifetime loyalty to any supplier/manufacturer nor to any forum (nor to any flag as it happens).
Actually, you and I are very much in agreement that the OP ultimately needs to sort any issue or question with VWR as well as asking here, and that's what I was trying to say.
:happy2:
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come on guys get back on the op's question :happy2:
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come on guys get back on the op's question :happy2:
....I already have answered the OP's question. If someone questions my posts I'm always going to respond rather than ignore - You should know that by now. Besides, in the discussion between tony_d and myself there is plenty relating to brakes/pads.
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pads are a personal choice end of !
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If you have there kit do you have to use their pads or are the pads a generic fitment, giving you the chance to try other manufacturers pads?
If you have a pad and a ruler you can figure out which pad is yours here:
http://braketechnology.com/download/drawingindex.pdf (http://braketechnology.com/download/drawingindex.pdf)
From there get a part number for the pagid pad and from there either by the very good pagid pads (expen$ive & very good in the main) or speak to any sport pad supplier armed with the pagid number and they'll cross reference it to a Ferodo/Mintex number and let you know compound availability.
It might be the case that there are no other compounds available, you would suspect that the further east that the brakes originate from the less choice you have but in reality theres no correlation.
A lot of the AP pad shapes date back to the 1950's so it'll probably be one of those.
The DS2500 debate will rage on - imvho stay off track with them and they'll be ok, Road pads for Road , Track pads for tracks
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Wow...light blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance :wink:
My original question was based on the fact that there have been a few sets of VWR BBK's for sale recently and new to the whole modding thing was asking question as stated. People have said that simply upgrading the pads with the standard disks was a good begining which provided good results due to the fact that a standard brake setup from a standard car manufacturer would be catered for by any number of aftermarket companies.
Therefore if you went to a specific BBK from a specific supplier would you still have access to the same number of different types of pads?
And is this information readily available?
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Thanks for that daveb :happy2: You answered the question!
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lots for ap/brembo/wilwood/alcon the rest might take some digging . demon tweeks is a good start
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Also,
If you send a backing plate to the likes of Carbotech or Questmead, they'll copy it and make you some up with whatever compound you like.
Chances are it'll copy an AP or Brembo pad shape.
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You'll notice I didn't recommend a pad, he didn't even ask anyone to either. I'll happily tell him what I use and what I think of them, but he needs to make his own mind up supported by good research, reviews and support from VWR.
I don't mean cons, Robin. I mean bad experiences.
Lets say AP had told you to put DS2500s in, you'd gone and done a track day and melted them, causing judder. Pads scrap, discs have to be reground.
You'd sort the problem with AP and no mention of it outside of those 4 walls would be made, which is honourable, too many people bitch rather than fix.
However, if someone posted up saying their AP/DS2500 kit was juddering, I don't think you'd share your experience in the interests of keeping your nice relationship sweet instead. Same could be said of VWR etc.
I do understand why, don't get me wrong, but as long as it is first hand and factual I don't see a problem.
I really hope you will still hang round here from time to time, once you have got your rear wheel drive car. :happy2:
You are very good at putting into words, what a lot of us are thinking. This place would lose a chunk of reality if you where not here to sweep up every now and then. :wink:
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Danza - keepin' it real since 1977!
I'm sure I'll have a look every now and again, just to keep my eye in. You never know I might want another FailWD tool at some point. :wink:
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Danza - keepin' it real since 1977!
I'm sure I'll have a look every now and again, just to keep my eye in. You never know I might want another FailWD tool at some point. :wink:
i see what u did there :grin:
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Danza - keepin' it real since 1977!
I'm sure I'll have a look every now and again, just to keep my eye in. You never know I might want another FailWD tool at some point. :wink:
i see what u did there :grin:
....I see what TC did too :P
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Danza - keepin' it real since 1977!
Bqllox - PLUS VAT at least unless they give you cheshire nancy boys a big paper round
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Cheeky sh*t. I am but a baby.