MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: MitchGTI on July 07, 2010, 02:10:03 pm

Title: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: MitchGTI on July 07, 2010, 02:10:03 pm
I got the S3 remapped on monday (reset my blufin from my gti!) and im not that impressed? It doesnt feel like a 300bhp car? I used to have a stage 2 ko3 gti and that was awsome! But this just isnt that exiting!! Whats going on? Also im sure there is a problem with the DV? It makes a sorta dragged out long dump when you let off the throttle not a sharp release like i used to get on the gti wich had the uprated G version?! And it whistles like mad??
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: SteveP on July 07, 2010, 02:22:30 pm
Very easy to check the DV as it's located on the front on the engine.

I would also get someone with VCDS to log the car to check for any other issues :happy2:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: john_o on July 07, 2010, 02:45:46 pm
agree with Steve  :happy2: log to check boost levels.
would also consider that you have the wrong map or the std map which means you dont get any extra hp  :surprised:
whistling with increased boost is normal to some extent, but could also be loose hoses etc

my comedy answer was going to be
Quote
its a posh golf , they come dull as standard  :P
:signLOL:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: vRStu on July 07, 2010, 02:54:28 pm
You should see a similar real world performance to a GTi Ed30 mapped however while the ED30 is still leaving it's rubber on the road behind you, you'll be away on your toes.  :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Hedge on July 07, 2010, 02:57:33 pm
You should see a similar real world performance to a GTi Ed30 mapped however while the ED30 is still leaving it's rubber on the road behind you, you'll be away on your toes.  :evilgrin:

Hardly away on its toes with the additional weight of a propshaft and Haldex  :P
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: SteveP on July 07, 2010, 03:06:28 pm
^^^ says the man with two more cylinders and 1.2 litres of displacement  :signLOL:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: T88OMM on July 07, 2010, 03:10:38 pm
It should do mate, when I had my Revo Stage 1 loaded the difference was night and day! As everyone has said get some logging done  :happy2:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: 182_blue on July 07, 2010, 03:12:20 pm
As mentioned above, check with Superchips to see if you got the right map  :happy2:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Janner_Sy on July 07, 2010, 03:15:16 pm
also dont forget in an Ed30 your going from 230Hp to 280-300Hp, in the S3 your going from 260hp to 280-300Hp.  big difference, and to be fair your prob not making 300Hp anyway
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: 182_blue on July 07, 2010, 03:24:28 pm
also dont forget in an Ed30 your going from 230Hp to 280-300Hp, in the S3 your going from 260hp to 280-300Hp.  big difference, and to be fair your prob not making 300Hp anyway

This is very true + Im guessing the S3 is heavier ?, i just got my R remapped and i can tell its been done but it doesnt blow your nuts of like the Golf did, then again the R felt quicker than the standard ED30 did so its all relative
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Sunglasses Ron on July 07, 2010, 04:06:12 pm
also dont forget in an Ed30 your going from 230Hp to 280-300Hp, in the S3 your going from 260hp to 280-300Hp.  big difference, and to be fair your prob not making 300Hp anyway

This is very true + Im guessing the S3 is heavier ?, i just got my R remapped and i can tell its been done but it doesnt blow your nuts of like the Golf did, then again the R felt quicker than the standard ED30 did so its all relative

What software you gone with this time Shaun?
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Hedge on July 07, 2010, 04:41:34 pm
^^^ says the man with two more cylinders and 1.2 litres of displacement  :signLOL:

FTMFW  :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Hedge on July 07, 2010, 04:44:50 pm
also dont forget in an Ed30 your going from 230Hp to 280-300Hp, in the S3 your going from 260hp to 280-300Hp.  big difference, and to be fair your prob not making 300Hp anyway

My Ed30 on stage 1 was in the region of 265 ponies so an S3 will have gained (in best Paul Daniels voice) "Not a lot".  :smiley:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jkm.org.uk%2Fperformance%2FMisc%2FGallery%2Frollingroaddays%2FBRISKODA%252007%252002%252009%2FDyno%2520Charts%2FBBU.gif&hash=f7ed855089d4a74771bd2a2673d74eb9315b4ee3)
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: MAT ED30 on July 07, 2010, 04:48:56 pm
that would be 280bhp on any other rollers  :grin:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: T88OMM on July 07, 2010, 04:50:54 pm
He should notice a difference. Mine drove like it just had a rocket stuck up it's arse as soon as the software was loaded! Maybe the Revo software has a 'little' more punch than Superchips!  :happy2:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Saint Steve on July 07, 2010, 04:52:14 pm
also dont forget in an Ed30 your going from 230Hp to 280-300Hp, in the S3 your going from 260hp to 280-300Hp.  big difference, and to be fair your prob not making 300Hp anyway

My Ed30 on stage 1 was in the region of 265 ponies so an S3 will have gained (in best Paul Daniels voice) "Not a lot".  :smiley:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jkm.org.uk%2Fperformance%2FMisc%2FGallery%2Frollingroaddays%2FBRISKODA%252007%252002%252009%2FDyno%2520Charts%2FBBU.gif&hash=f7ed855089d4a74771bd2a2673d74eb9315b4ee3)
that would be 280bhp on any other rollers  :grin:

if his was, then my stage 1 would be 300 on others  :signLOL:  :notworthy:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Hedge on July 07, 2010, 04:59:47 pm
that would be 280bhp on any other rollers  :grin:

Probably, but not if they are accurate. :wink:

He should notice a difference. Mine drove like it just had a rocket stuck up it's arse as soon as the software was loaded! Maybe the Revo software has a 'little' more punch than Superchips!  :happy2:

A considerable amount more torque thats for sure and especially lowdown in the rev range.
Like this:-
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jkm.org.uk%2Fperformance%2FMisc%2FGallery%2Frollingroaddays%2FMK5%2520GTI%252018%252003%252009%2FDyno%2520Graphs%2FCLB.gif&hash=41f5df462cd74c195bd173634e9899ca56777d60)
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Janner_Sy on July 07, 2010, 05:04:07 pm
i heard custom code was where it was at on the S3 :grin:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Hedge on July 07, 2010, 05:09:05 pm
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwilliamthecoroner.files.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F09%2Fistock_can-of-worms.jpg&hash=30f716bb80c1be75db6f3a568c8961aaa779e23c)

 :popcornsoda:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: vRStu on July 07, 2010, 05:22:24 pm
You should see a similar real world performance to a GTi Ed30 mapped however while the ED30 is still leaving it's rubber on the road behind you, you'll be away on your toes.  :evilgrin:

Hardly away on its toes with the additional weight of a propshaft and Haldex  :P

Not bad, a bite in just about 3 minutes and you don't even own one anymore  :fighting:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Hedge on July 07, 2010, 05:29:57 pm
Not bad, a bite in just about 3 minutes and you don't even own one anymore  :fighting:

 :booty:  :wink:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Poppa Dom on July 07, 2010, 06:00:46 pm
Right, getting this thread back on topic for Mitch - Mitch, if you want some logging I am about tonight give me a ring. Could do with a pint in the Golden Retriever  :happy2:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Janner_Sy on July 07, 2010, 06:11:18 pm
Not bad, a bite in just about 3 minutes and you don't even own one anymore  :fighting:

 :booty:  :wink:

have you got rid mate??
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: vRS Carl on July 07, 2010, 06:36:07 pm
Ian now has a .:R32 Sy
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: MitchGTI on July 07, 2010, 07:09:07 pm
Me n dom Are going to do some logging tonight so will know whats going on later wether theres something wrong or its just me!
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Janner_Sy on July 07, 2010, 08:54:30 pm
Ian now has a .:R32 Sy

i know think i misread it as he got rid of the R32 :ashamed:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: joesgti on July 07, 2010, 10:38:01 pm
whistling sounds like a leek,
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: PDT on July 07, 2010, 10:43:09 pm
Sueprchips make more like 275-280bhp in reality, not 300bhp, they do pick up a bit of torque though.  Bluefin is just a very safe 1 size fits all generic map, unlike a custom tuned map or REVO etc... which are all finely tuned using datalogging on the road/dyno to get it perfect.

I took a Superchips bluefin tuned 200 tfsi in recently for a dyno test, it ran a standard power of 192bhp and a 'tuned' power of 216bhp with a gain in torque of 37 ft/lb. The customer wasnt happy so we tested a REVO trial which made 239bhp and an extra 65 ft/lb of torque with about 30 mins setting up over their basic settings, all tested back to back on the dyno.

There is no replacement for 'real tuning'  :happy2:

Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Jules86 on July 07, 2010, 11:05:05 pm
A lot of the S3 guys have had RR's of nearer 300bhp as standard, you may have had a strong one and the bluefin only added 10 or so bhp?
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: MitchGTI on July 08, 2010, 12:10:25 am
Well went out the evening with good ol domo and did the logging and to be fair it was a nice cool evening and the car was running thr best it ever has! So the results showed it running fine everything is all good no boost leaks, power is where it should be so my minds at rest... But im affraid the slope has come apon me! Im looking to get a milly dp next and hope that frees up some power! More power!!

Haha cheers domo and everyone else for help comments ect!
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: vRStu on July 08, 2010, 06:02:13 am
A lot of the S3 guys have had RR's of nearer 300bhp as standard, you may have had a strong one and the bluefin only added 10 or so bhp?

In with statements like that I'll refer you to Hedge's earlier comment  :evilgrin:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwilliamthecoroner.files.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F09%2Fistock_can-of-worms.jpg&hash=30f716bb80c1be75db6f3a568c8961aaa779e23c)
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Poppa Dom on July 08, 2010, 07:40:33 am
As Mitch has already stated, car is running absolutely fine, no timing pull, boost levels as expected and actual meeting specificed, fuelling fine - although bluefin seems to max the fuelling out at 115bar. Doing calculations from the logs - 293bhp.
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Kuro on July 08, 2010, 08:22:45 am
When I had my old S3 remapped it was after a few hundred miles you noticed a big difference...

I have a brand new Milltek DownPipe & SportCat for sale if you interested.
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Janner_Sy on July 08, 2010, 08:27:47 am
As Mitch has already stated, car is running absolutely fine, no timing pull, boost levels as expected and actual meeting specificed, fuelling fine - although bluefin seems to max the fuelling out at 115bar. Doing calculations from the logs - 293bhp.

its the torque that you feel though and if thats not substantial it might not feel that much more.
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Sunglasses Ron on July 08, 2010, 08:47:15 am
When I had my old S3 remapped it was after a few hundred miles you noticed a big difference...

I have a brand new Milltek DownPipe & SportCat for sale if you interested.

Is that price negotiable though mate, as seems a little high to me considering it's still second hand and the warranty will be void (new owner). My mate is after one and if the price was to come down you would have a quick sale.  :wink:
Sorry for the hijack Mitch, can't PM Kuro yet..  :ashamed:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: T88OMM on July 08, 2010, 09:17:58 am
Good news Mitch, but what you really need is Revo stage 2+ and all the supporting mods!  :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: micky 32 on July 08, 2010, 11:16:44 am
I can't see how a stage 1 map on an S3 will make much difference. If the engine is the same as the ED 30 and the S3 is already running 265bhp 15-20bhp more isn't going to be night and day on a stage 1 map unless there is a better exhaust on the S3 etc.
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: T88OMM on July 08, 2010, 11:46:13 am
I can't see how a stage 1 map on an S3 will make much difference. If the engine is the same as the ED 30 and the S3 is already running 265bhp 15-20bhp more isn't going to be night and day on a stage 1 map unless there is a better exhaust on the S3 etc.

When mine was stage 1'd by Revo it honestly did make a huge difference  :smiley:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Kuro on July 08, 2010, 12:30:39 pm
Is that price negotiable though mate, as seems a little high to me considering it's still second hand and the warranty will be void (new owner). My mate is after one and if the price was to come down you would have a quick sale.  :wink:
Sorry for the hijack Mitch, can't PM Kuro yet..  :ashamed:


I'm always open to offers... PM me on vagoc.co.uk  :wink:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: MitchGTI on July 08, 2010, 02:22:21 pm
kuro pm me a price mate! im deffo interested in a miltek now!
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Kuro on July 08, 2010, 02:41:59 pm
I can't PM on here yet...

Email me, my email is in my profile  :happy2:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Poppa Dom on July 08, 2010, 03:08:02 pm
Kuro make another post and you should be able to PM  :happy2:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Kuro on July 08, 2010, 03:12:10 pm
 :happy2:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: PDT on July 08, 2010, 05:30:23 pm
Can I ask what the requested and actual boost levels were?

Also AFM logs are no real indication of power, my AFM logs show my car is making 347bhp, on the dyno it makes 385bhp. Our 1.8t bora that belongs to a mate makes 216bhp but afm figures give it 272 bhp!

What AFM logs fail to account for is ignition timing, this is where the real power is. Showing a timing pull of zero isnt a good thing, what if it could take another 4-5 degrees and still show zero? what if there was an extra 6-7 degrees before it showed 1-2 degrees of pull, thats where you want to be. 6-7 degrees of ign timing can be 20+ bhp

This tuning method is known as minimum best timing (MBT) you add ignition advance until the car either starts dropping in power or the retardation map starts pulling timing back out.

Dave.
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Poppa Dom on July 08, 2010, 05:56:29 pm
This is where the discussion is going to change tack and focus on the map provider (in this case Superchips). Boost requested 2300/2400 mbar (Bluefin Stage1) - actual boost meets requested across the whole range. MAF - tops out at 237 g/s Totally agree with comments about timing - but when there is no user headroom for this to be changed (Bluefin Vs Revo) you're caught between pillar and post. Also agree that AFM is not the best way forward, but better than none.

I guess the best way to evaluate where things are would be to get it on the Surrey Rolling road dyno. Which, incidentally when I logged my run on the dyno, AFM was within 5bhp of the dyno result.

Bringing RR data into the equation is not going to help as we all know that there is a dyno lottery to one degree or another.
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: PDT on July 08, 2010, 09:07:17 pm
the dyno lottery is true, however mosr dyno dynamics dynos are within a few % of eachother in most cases.

An engine that is flowing a lot of air doesnt mean its making a lot of power :happy2:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Poppa Dom on July 08, 2010, 09:14:05 pm
the dyno lottery is true, however mosr dyno dynamics dynos are within a few % of eachother in most cases.

An engine that is flowing a lot of air doesnt mean its making a lot of power :happy2:

Totally agree :happy2:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: MitchGTI on July 08, 2010, 10:48:30 pm
Well this certainly has opened a can of worms! I think the best thing i can do is get it to a set of rollers and see what its pushing!

been out in it again tonight and its abit warmer and just feels slugish again! Soo my next port of call is a decent CAI and DP then see what its doing? Maybe revo is on the cards after all.... Dom you are wearing on me!!
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Poppa Dom on July 08, 2010, 10:52:18 pm
Sorry Mitch, I will be quiet - though I do think that your car is running just fine - with the map you have but is the map you have optimised as good as it could be. E.g. only requesting 115bar on the fuelling side of things. REckon you should get that downpipe - PM VRStu about the combination he had...
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Hedge on July 08, 2010, 10:54:11 pm
PM VRStu about the combination he had...

Just Revo stage 1 and a dp/cat. :smiley:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Janner_Sy on July 08, 2010, 10:55:03 pm
Well this certainly has opened a can of worms! I think the best thing i can do is get it to a set of rollers and see what its pushing!

been out in it again tonight and its abit warmer and just feels slugish again! Soo my next port of call is a decent CAI and DP then see what its doing? Maybe revo is on the cards after all.... Dom you are wearing on me!!

id normally say if is sluggish in the heat ,maybe its the intercooler, but you have an S3
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: vRS Carl on July 09, 2010, 12:10:54 am
It's all relative though Sy. He has a bigger turbo so although an S3 cooler is a good upgrade for a K03 car it starts to suffer on K04 cars earlier.

Or another way to look at it is

Stage 2+ K03 = 280ish Bhp

Stage 1 K04 = 280ish bhp

I think a lot of the reason behind this is that it's being compared to Revo who's files are quite aggressive to give you the feeling you got a lot for your money. Whereas the Bluefin map "maybe" more progressive hence not the same feeling of power (even though it may be quicker) I had this when i went Stage 2+ as i felt it wasn't any quicker. It was only when i did some timed runs i that in fact the car was quicker.

Im not saying that is the case but if the Data Logging is not showing anything a miss then might be an idea to get it on a Dyno to look at the curve and take it from there.

Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: MitchGTI on July 09, 2010, 01:03:15 am
How does that work with the milly DP will it fit to the standard system with no problems? Will i loose anything by no going full system?
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: vRS Carl on July 09, 2010, 10:29:03 am
You won't lose anything by not going full system.

All the Cat back part does is make the noise different and improve appearance.

For true stealth just fit the DP. You will prob see about another 10-15bhp & 15-20lb/ft with the DP. Will also help smooth things out due to easier flow.

Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: MitchGTI on July 09, 2010, 11:38:03 am
yeah i like stealth! im thinkin DP then a CAI and change to stage 2 software? i may have found a ITG intake up for grabs.....
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Hedge on July 09, 2010, 11:38:13 am
You will need a reducer for the DP/cat to fit.
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Kuro on July 09, 2010, 12:06:08 pm
Yep just needs a reducer to fit... or a have a custom centre section made

 :happy2:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: gazbutS3 on July 09, 2010, 12:53:59 pm
yeah i like stealth! im thinkin DP then a CAI and change to stage 2 software? i may have found a ITG intake up for grabs.....

might as well get a fuel pump on go 2+ :smiley:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: T88OMM on July 09, 2010, 01:20:24 pm
yeah i like stealth! im thinkin DP then a CAI and change to stage 2 software? i may have found a ITG intake up for grabs.....

might as well get a fuel pump on go 2+ :smiley:

+1, S3's Stage 2+ are monsters  :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: MitchGTI on July 10, 2010, 12:56:50 am
That F*****g slippery slope is in front of me again!!! Argg.  !! Lol kuro ile pm u tomoro about then bits!
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: vRS Carl on July 10, 2010, 07:49:58 am
That F*****g slippery slope is in front of me again!!!

Stop being a (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fserve.mysmiley.net%2Fadult%2Fhomoswitch.gif&hash=175fab3d976b60d98fd49b369f86c5c6b14d50ce) (http://www.mysmiley.net) and just go straight to Stage 2+  :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :signLOL:
Title: Re: Mapped the s3! Not that blown away?.......
Post by: Kuro on July 10, 2010, 08:51:55 am
That F*****g slippery slope is in front of me again!!! Argg.  !! Lol kuro ile pm u tomoro about then bits!

ok matey...  :happy2: