MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: vRS Carl on July 09, 2010, 04:56:14 pm
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Well as i said on the last thread i was still not quite happy with the look. The lights i installed still looked too Chavstyle fairy lights for me.
So i went on the hunt and found these
OEM Style DRL Clicky (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DRL-5-LED-SMD-HIGH-POWER-E-MARKED-SKODA-ALL-MODELS-/250622481471?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a5a43943f#ht_4968wt_1139)
Well i ordered them yesterday and they came today (being UK based is a Bonus)
Wiring and everything is Exactly the same as before so bonus that no need to rewire stuff.
These are them fitted. Ignore the holes as thats where i removed the others from and i am picking up some new grilles tomorrow.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fww275%2FTaufe%2FIMG_0106.jpg&hash=c930018d41c3f579300231d110e5b68069ea7497)
Now a pic of them Working - massive difference.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fww275%2FTaufe%2FIMG_0102.jpg&hash=a5dde64209be6c8ede8e9effb3d08f96b73999b0)
And just to show by comparison the difference to the old ones
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fww275%2FTaufe%2FIMG_0099.jpg&hash=1074ad67d76e858978eabbeefb1c96aee2ce3d9d)
So im am well chuffed. The guy who runs the company i had a chat with today and he sent me some pics of them fitted to a Porsche so if they are good enough for Porsche they are good enough for me.
Also for £45 delivered i am well impressed versus the £200+ for OEM style EACH. I've ordered another set for the Silver Slingshot which will be here tomorrow.
Comments good or bad welcome
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Starting to see more of these now Carl, I like the fit - good effort.
Is it possible to wire them so they turn off when the dusk sensor kicks in i.e. they only illuminate in the day? :smiley:
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Not sure as I don't have auto lights on the vRS.
When I wire the set up to the Slingshot I'll see what's what :happy2:
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How did you get on Carl - did you figure a way to tie them into the dusk sensor so they're literally DRL's and turn themselves off when the Xenons come on? :smiley:
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No mate I didn't.
I thought I had but they stayed on even when the lights went off so in the end I just found a switched live in the fuse box and wired them into that :happy2:
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^^^^
It can be done but my VW dealer did mine and it was a while ago. I'll try and remember to ask them how on my next visit.
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Please do RR if you get the opportunity, for my benefit and knowledge if nothing else :happy2:
Thanks.
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I wouldn't mind knowing either Robin :happy2:
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Top looks VRSCarl :happy2:
I fancy some good quality DRL's of this type. Only thing putting me off is the bottom grill where the fog is would have to be cut and I am not sure how good that would look? Anybody done this?
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I fancy some good quality DRL's of this type. Only thing putting me off is the bottom grill where the fog is would have to be cut and I am not sure how good that would look? Anybody done this?
....There are some pics and info about strip DRL's in my Review of my 'monkeyface' DRL's:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1917.0.html
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Cheers Robin :happy2: Loving the R32 look from that link. Got thinking about these the other day after seeing the Golf R on Fifth Gear. The lower grills of the GTi dont lend themselves too much to fitting DRL's.
I like what you have gone for Robin but I dont want to give up the front fogs.
Shall have a think about it.............
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I thought I had but they stayed on even when the lights went off so in the end I just found a switched live in the fuse box and wired them into that :happy2:
Hi Carl, I think I'll give these DRLs a bash myself :happy2:. Where did you end up finding the fuse for the switched live (or was it spliced into a wire in the engine bay as with your Version 1 DRLs)?
Dave
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Hi Dave,
Yes i used a wire in the headlight connector ( i think it was black ) basically take the connector off and then using the Red wire of the DRL just test each connection until you get one that lights them up. Once you do leave it connected and switch the ignition Off & On to see if the DRL's go Off & On.
On my car it was the wire that is in position No.3 (look on the connector were the wires go in and you will see a series of numbers)
Carl :happy2:
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My Hella DRL booklet has a wiring instruction for auto switching.. It's in the car in my garage (not close to my house), so I'll get it tomorrow, take a pic and post.
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Cheers Robin :happy2:
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Cheers Carl,
That shouldn't be a problem although I'll hold off to see if Robin enlightens us :wink:
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^^^^
Will be visiting my garage after breakfast..
Meanwhile Darren posted this in another thread:
RR I just turned the fogs off in VCDS other than that the DRL's don't work off the cars can bus system so don't need any coding
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.
Here we go.. I hope this may be of some help:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FDRLwiring.jpg&hash=47eb039d0db45ecb414e1322c10c0096cb206da7)
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Cheers Robin
Will try that on the Slingshot and see how it goes :happy2:
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I thought I had but they stayed on even when the lights went off so in the end I just found a switched live in the fuse box and wired them into that :happy2:
Hi Carl, I think I'll give these DRLs a bash myself :happy2:. Where did you end up finding the fuse for the switched live (or was it spliced into a wire in the engine bay as with your Version 1 DRLs)?
Dave
Muckipup - Please take a picture when you are done I'm interested to see what these particular DRL's look like on a GTI.
:happy2:
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I thought I had but they stayed on even when the lights went off so in the end I just found a switched live in the fuse box and wired them into that :happy2:
Hi Carl, I think I'll give these DRLs a bash myself :happy2:. Where did you end up finding the fuse for the switched live (or was it spliced into a wire in the engine bay as with your Version 1 DRLs)?
Dave
Muckipup - Please take a picture when you are done I'm interested to see what these particular DRL's look like on a GTI.
:happy2:
Sorry mate, I am afraid that I am another one of those Octavia VRS owners like Carl who comes 'tresspassing' on mk5gti forums :ashamed:
...however, it does mean we can compare notes across the Mk5 platform and share info....like this....which is a recent posting on Briskoda relating to switched live connections in the fusebox (with piccies) :happy2:
http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/155963-how-to-remove-top-storage-box-and-location-of-switched-live/ (http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/155963-how-to-remove-top-storage-box-and-location-of-switched-live/)
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This is basically how i connected mine:
On the Battery you will see where the Negative Terminal Clamp runs off and connects to the car body by the suspension strut. There is a 13mm nut there. undo that and using a ring clamp connector on the black wire place it over the bolt and tighten up the nut.
The Live Red wire i ran to the headlight connector block on the passenger side as it was closest to the battery.
Back of the headlight connector looks like this ( the point were the wires go into the connector block )
1 3 5 7
( : : : : )
2 4 6 8
The dots are all a seperate wire. The wire in position No.3 on my vRS is Black in colour and is a switched live. I tested this as i said earlier by disconnecting the Connector from the back of the headlight unit and placing the bare red wire into each connector until i got the lights to light up. I then switched the ignition off and they went out.
Front of the connector looks a bit like this (there are 2 rows of connectors i just couldn't draw it :grin:)
(= = = =)
1 3 5 7
Once done all i did then was splice into the wire in Position no.3 and then seal it in with heat shrink and electrical tape
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I had a play around with a multimeter at the weekend. The black wire is also a switched live on mine (no surprise, as we have the same car :rolleye: ) but I could have sworn it was at position 1 - either way, it's the black wire.
The reason for looking though, was to see if there was an unused wire which was a switched live until the headlamps were on at which point it killed the current to it i.e. DRLs for the daylight as I think was mentioned as standard with other cars....well, I didn't find one! :laugh:
I wasn't expecting to find anything as the sidelights can be already activated as DRLs through VCDS so no need for another DRL circuit. Simply wiring into black wire as you have done is good enough for me anyway.
EDIT:
Err, I noticed this from the ebay ad for the DRLs...
Notes:-
Yellow wire to connect to the headlight positive side to turn DRL off when main dipped beam lights are truned on like most Audi vehicles if required (not compulsory), red is positive and black ground, easy DIY fitment.
So I'll shut-up now and stop pi$$ing around with multimeters :ashamed:
How did you get on Carl - did you figure a way to tie them into the dusk sensor so they're literally DRL's and turn themselves off when the Xenons come on? :smiley:
From above, keep them on auto and splice the yellow in to the main headlamp wire, I guess.
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How did you get on Carl - did you figure a way to tie them into the dusk sensor so they're literally DRL's and turn themselves off when the Xenons come on? :smiley:
From above, keep them on auto and splice the yellow in to the main headlamp wire, I guess.
Doesn't work, i tried it and the DRL stay on no matter what :happy2:
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^^ RR was going to find out if and how its possible, as he thinks his dealer might be able to inform him :smiley: I doubt anyone else has managed it as I did a thread a while back and asked on a few of the US forums. They've not managed either from what I found, unless anyone has evidence to the contrary... :happy2:
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To be honest i think it's impossible as you only have 2 wires.
If you wire into a power system how would it know to kill the power to the wire branching off to turn the DRL's off.
It would prob need it's own controller to do it that way :happy2:
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^ Quite possibly the case Carl.
Obviously the factory ones rely on communication with the dusk sensor in some shape or form, so whether it can be bodged from there on I don't know, but as you say with only 2 wires you're perhaps limited with an aftermarket DRL function.
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^^ RR was going to find out if and how its possible, as he thinks his dealer might be able to inform him :smiley: I doubt anyone else has managed it as I did a thread a while back and asked on a few of the US forums. They've not managed either from what I found, unless anyone has evidence to the contrary... :happy2:
....Oooops! I forgot.. Sorry.. I'll try and give him a call tomorrow and ask. I do remember him asking me if I wanted my DRL's switched manually or to auto-switch on with ignition and off whenever any other light was switched on (including under the oem Auto Lights function).
Didn't the Hella wiring instruction I posted help?
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The Hella ones appear to have a connector block on them. Which maybe how it works.
Whereas the ones i have literally have a +ve & -ve wire thats it :smiley:
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^^^^
In some countries, the legal requirement (either proposed or established) is for DRL's to be switched off whenever other lights are switched on. Hence Hella's design easily allows this. My VW dealer friend was asking me if I wanted to override it as it isn't (so far) a legal requirement in the UK.
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^^ Not to worry RR :smiley:
I think its probably pie in the sky functionality for aftermarket DRLs but the whole concept is interesting. Could the 'foglight as DRL' option in vcds play a part in something like Carls setup or similar?
That's good news however if the dealer mentioned its possible to configure?
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Could the 'foglight as DRL' option in vcds play a part in something like Carls setup or similar?
That's good news however if the dealer mentioned its possible to configure?
....Is there actually an option in VCDS to use the foglights as DRL's on the Mk5 GTI or Octy?
My dealer didn't only mention the possibilities, he succeeded in doing mine. I'll call him this morning.
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^^^^
I just spoke with him and he might have a read of this thread.
He followed the Hella wiring diagram which I posted earlier and in VCDS he disabled the oem foglights so that their 'no bulb' warnings wouldn't keep appearing.
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Depends on the Octy & the Can Version in the car.
Would imagine it's the same with the GiT :happy2:
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^^^^
My Hella's are specifically made for the Mk5 Golf.
I've lost track, Carl: Are you having problems making your lights switch on with ignition but off when other lights are activated?
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You can wire it in one of two ways
DRL come on and stay on with the Ignition switch on. No matter what other lights you turn on
DRL come on/off with side lights (which kinda defeats the object of them)
As i said due to only having 2 wires i think it's limited on how to get these to function any other way without incorporating a controller somewhere :happy2:
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You can wire it in one of two ways
DRL come on and stay on with the Ignition switch on. No matter what other lights you turn on
DRL come on/off with side lights (which kinda defeats the object of them)
As i said due to only having 2 wires i think it's limited on how to get these to function any other way without incorporating a controller somewhere :happy2:
....So you can't wire it a third way so they function like mine? (assuming you wanted to).
It seems I got more wiring possibilities with my +£200 Hella's :evilgrin:
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Well i can't on the Blue Bullet as i dont have Auto lights on that.
I tried wiring in to the Auto Light on the Silver Slingshot but even when the headlights came on the DRL stayed on.
I suppose there might be a way of wiring in to light sensor but as i don't want to feck up the sensor then i'll leave it as it is now.
There is no law in the UK that they have to turn off with other lights etc. The only time they have to do anything is if they are in-built directly into the headlight unit (like the Audi A3,A4 etc)
then they have to dim when indicators come on etc. But as there is a prominent gap between the DRL and indicator on mine then it's fine.
I wouldn't want to wire them into the foglights anyway as that means i have to have the lights on which defeats the object of DRL in my opinion. The reason i got them was to stop driving around with my Headlights on all the time.
So i will suffer with them just switching on/off with the ignition and keep the £165 i saved for a BSH Throttle body pipe in the upcoming group buy :booty: :booty: :evilgrin:
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^^^^
The only difference having the Auto Lights feature is that it gives an additional 'instruction' to switch off the DRL's when the Auto Lights switch is turned on and any lights are actually activated. So if you go through a tunnel with Auto Lights switched, your headlights will automatically switch on and your DRL's switch off, and then after exiting the tunnel the reverse will automatically happen.
AFAIK there's no DRL legislation in the UK as yet. The UK has been one of the slowest European countries to even take part in international consultations (surprise, surprise!) and when doing so has been generally anti. I think it will be left to the car manufacturers to imitate Audi and follow generic European regulations. DRL's will be almost a marketing feature rather than their full safety advantages be recognised.
It's pointless having LED DRL's on at night because they're what's called a passive light and hardly illuminate the road.
Either way, I think that your DRL's look very OEM and very cool, Carl, as well as having that added safety advantage which I believe so strongly in.
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It's pointless having LED DRL's on at night because they're what's called a passive light and hardly illuminate the road.
Robin I disagree with you there.
My DRL's give quite a lot of light actually and light up the area immediately to the front of the car quite well. Also LED can't be that bad considering the R8 V10 has LED headlights.
But DRL are designed to get you noticed rather than illuminate the road. Which is what i got them for. From what I have been reading lately manufacturers are starting to do more research into LED technology as they can get more light for less power than halogen or HID.
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As i said due to only having 2 wires i think it's limited on how to get these to function any other way without incorporating a controller somewhere :happy2:
Hi Carl,
You got these ones right?....http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DRL-5-LED-SMD-HIGH-POWER-E-MARKED-SKODA-ALL-MODELS-/250622481471?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DRL-5-LED-SMD-HIGH-POWER-E-MARKED-SKODA-ALL-MODELS-/250622481471?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM)
Aren't there three wires - red, black and yellow or do I understand that the yellow had no effect in doing anything for you?
A little bit academic for me as I think I would prefer them on all the time anyway.
Edit - just had mine delivered as I wrote this :laugh: so I'll see what I can suss out
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Yep but I since found them cheaper here
DRL CLICKY (http://www.hids-direct.co.uk/audi-drl-smd-led-units/drl-high-power-smd-5-led-daytime-running-lamps-emark-p-469.html)
The yellow is an earth wire only and has no other function :happy2:
EDIT - if you find a way of getting it to work I'm all ears. I've got another set coming to act as boot lighting :happy2:
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Yep but I since found them cheaper here
Now you tell me :signLOL:
The yellow is an earth wire only and has no other function :happy2:
I wonder what they are on about on the ebay ad above then as they said...
Yellow wire to connect to the headlight positive side to turn DRL off when main dipped beam lights are truned on like most Audi vehicles if required (not compulsory), red is positive and black ground, easy DIY fitment.
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Hmm that's interesting. Never used to say that and I'm sure the instructions just said it was a earth :confused:
That maybe the answer.
Sorry about the price I only found that yesterday when looking for them for the boot :ashamed:
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No worries, chief - it fades into insignificance with the amount I've pi$$ed away on this car anyway...but as a Scotsman, even a tenner hurts sometimes - I can get a lot of deep-fried mars bars for a tenner :grin:
Going back 25 years to GSCE physics (which I didn't too particularly well in! :ashamed:), I am wondering if the yellow simply wires into the side/headlamp so that when they are switched on, there is a equal and opposite voltage to the switched live such that there is no 'potential difference' in the circuit.
I'll give it a try myself just to answer the question on here but will probably still go with your approach :happy2:
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Let me know how you get on.
If it works i may do a bit of re-wiring :happy2:
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You just need to take a feed from the headlight positive to switch a relay so when the headlights are on the DRL's go off. Simples :happy2:
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But mine are wired into the headlight.
Will that make a difference? I'm no electrician and only understand basic principles of electric circuits for firing demolitions :smiley:
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IMHO the best way would be to run an ignition switched 12v to power the DRL's but run this through the swtiched side of the relay, then power the relay from the headlight so when they go on the DRL's turn off.
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IMHO the best way would be to run an ignition switched 12v to power the DRL's but run this through the swtiched side of the relay, then power the relay from the headlight so when they go on the DRL's turn off.
Yes, that's what the (very) simple instructions on the box that I am looking at suggest. Red goes to the switched live which can be taken from the black wire behind the headlamps (in Carl's and my case but probably same for Mk5) , the yellow splices into the feed for the side light and will kill the DRLs if the side light is switched on and the black to the battery negative (or, more easily, where is then connected and clamped on to the bodywork by the as Carl has also done).
I think the red/yellow thing can be done from the wiring behind the headlamp without giving any thought to relays but could stand corrected on that one
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If it has three wires then it shouldn't require the relay :happy2:
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Dave let me know if you find which one will kill the DRL.
Although i think it looks good with both on it would be nice to be able to switch them off it that particular law comes into effect in this country :happy2:
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^^ Deffo Carl. It would also look more OEM from a setup point of view, plus I always feel the DRL's on the 2008 > A4's (for example) take away the effect of the Xenons at night as it looks like they're all one light unit. I'm a big fan of the Xenons so using them as a 'sole light' would be the preferred way to go for me personally, if I ran DRLs.
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Yeah, that was my thinking too Carl - I'll probably split the yellow and put a spade connector in there just in case.
I won't be able to fit them tonight but will try and suss the wiring this evening and let you know how I get on.
Pete/Carl/anyone - so the Audis have their DRLs switch off with the sidelights or the main lamps??
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I don't know that they all do Dave. Some do but i think some don't. I know they dim when they use Indicators but thats because they are part of the Main light cluster.
My neighbour has an A5 but is away on holiday at the moment. When he gets back next week i'll ask him can i have a look what his do :happy2:
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On a side note:
Out of curiosity i just had a look on ETKA for the cost of 1 LED Light unit for an R8 V10
Yours for the bargain price of
£4441.50
Thats nearly £9k for a complete set :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised:
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I don't know that they all do Dave. Some do but i think some don't. I know they dim when they use Indicators but thats because they are part of the Main light cluster.
I think they do differ, but yesterday evening when it was near dusk I saw an A4 with the Xenon headlamps on and DRLs illuminated too. Whether the driver had switched it to do that or whether he has a button to turn the DRLs on manually I dont know, but certainly that particular one did so.
I don't recall seeing any A5's without the DRL strip on at night, so I presume the same applies...
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Dave let me know if you find which one will kill the DRL.
Although i think it looks good with both on it would be nice to be able to switch them off it that particular law comes into effect in this country :happy2:
....Although not law, and may never become so (we simply don't know how the cookie will crumble), it seemed to make a big difference to the police who stopped me when I demonstrated my DRL's automatically switching off when other lights were switched on. However, I expect that a big factor will have been the round 'foglight' format and foglight position of my Hella's. Looks more OEM on a Mk5 GTI though. I love the Audi style LED strips though.
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It's pointless having LED DRL's on at night because they're what's called a passive light and hardly illuminate the road.
Robin I disagree with you there.
My DRL's give quite a lot of light actually and light up the area immediately to the front of the car quite well. Also LED can't be that bad considering the R8 V10 has LED headlights.
But DRL are designed to get you noticed rather than illuminate the road. Which is what i got them for. From what I have been reading lately manufacturers are starting to do more research into LED technology as they can get more light for less power than halogen or HID.
....LED headlights are a different strength and spec from DRL's according to Hella who have done a lot of LED headlight design development for VAG and probably other manufacturers. The Hella DRL's are definitely not to be used as 'active' beam lighting according to their published information. Yes, the LED DRL's give some illumination but at night it's not enough to be legal or, more importantly, reliable without other lights.
DRL's are strictly an additional light to increase being seen by other motorists (hence the term 'passive') - We're agreed about that, Carl.
I gotta dash off to the recording studio now but if I can find the info again I'll post later.
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I wasn't doubting they aren't good enough to be used as main lighting.
Just saying the ones I have are very bright and do provide a lot of illumination. I wouldn't use them as sole illumination though.
Maybe I mis-interpreted your post to mean that Any LED is no good for sole lighting. That was what I was disagreeing with as I have an LED torch that only uses two CR123 lithium batteries yet gives 500 Lumens of light output from one bulb. Which is more than enough to temporarily blind someone and illuminates the ground upto about 250m away. I often use it as a search tool amongst other things :wink:
Apologies if I mis understood your post :drinking:
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Just took this pic to show what i mean.
This is my DRL's only in the garage
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fww275%2FTaufe%2Fd1a15a5a.jpg&hash=e2e13efb179c2503f9db74958d6a96758a2dade6)
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Wow those look really good. If only I could get them on the GTi without them looking like aftermarket cr*p. :happy2:
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Hello chaps,
I played around with the wiring without fitting the DRLs this evening. I had a different take on the wiring picture you put up earlier, Carl...same idea but a mirror image of your diagram. I am looking at the connector on the offside EDIT: nearside lamp which may explain it though :wink:
This one goes like:
9 7 5 3 1
( ]
10 8 6 4 2
1 -Black
3 - Brown (thin)
5 - Brown
7 - Brown
9 - White/grey
2 -Brown/blue
4 -blank
6 - YELLOW/BLACK
8 - Black/white
10-Black/grey
I am talking about an Octavia like Carl's but I believe they are the same.
So, to the point.....
These DRLs can be switched off when the headlights are switched on using the yellow wire on the DRLs:
To cut a long story short, and after a bit of trial and error with a multimeter and then temporarily wiring in the DRLs, connecting the yellow wire to position 6 (yellow/black) will kill the DRLs when the main headlamps are switched on. Vice versa, the DRLs will re-illuminate when going back to sidelights or switching all lights off.
I could not get the DRLs to switch off with the sidelights only.
This tallies up with what I found with the multimeter....
1 - is the switched live. Connecting the DRL red here will switch the DRLs on when the key is turned to ignition on / car is started as mentioned previously. It read 12v with ign on and 0v otherwise.
6- is the headlamps as above
8 - is full beam (but we don't want to wire the DRL-off to that)
...but I couldn't find a 12V out from the sidelights (only 0.5V at position 9 but certainly could not find a full 12v source from anything other than switched live with sidelights activated and a 10v at position 2). Similarly, going to 'real world wiring', touching the yellow DRL wire to all the other connection points failed to switch them off other than position 6 (no problem) and position 2 (which seemed to activate a weak attempt at the windscreen washer pump when touched causing a 'WTF moment' and rsulting in that idea getting the boot!!).
I could bang on about what voltages I picked up with parking lights, indicators etc. but it is all irrelevent - In summary (unless having the headlamp unit connected starts affecting things through the CAN-BUS or something) the only option is that the DRLs will be auto-on with the ignition by connecting the red to the switched live at position 1; will be auto-off with the main lamps lit (manually or via 'Auto lights' setting with you posh GTI owners, I guess :wink:) by connecting DRL yellow to the yellow/black at position 6. They don't seem to be affected by the sidelight voltage. This has been confirmed with the DRLs wired in. Or you could ignore the DRL yellow all together and have them on all the time and be a bit saucy like Carl :drool:.
Cheers,
Dave
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Thanks Dave.
Will try that on mine tomorrow :happy2:
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Thanks Dave.
Will try that on mine tomorrow :happy2:
No worries - was re-editing as you replied so hope it makes sense...I've over-done the 'happy juice' tonight :drinking:
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No need to thank me - these things looked great even sitting in my engine bay with wires hanging all over the place. I would never have considered this if it wasn't for this thread.
I'm off on hols on Friday but will sort this out on the holiday weekend and post some pics :happy2:
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I'm going to try and see if wiring the yellow wire to the auto light on the slingshot then has the same effect.
Will be leaving the vRS as is though I think :happy2:
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Hey Carl,
Before I go butchering the car, what bits of the plastic did you chop to fit these DRLs? - I can't quite make it out from your photos but they look a tighter fit than the old ones.
Cheers,
Dave
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I'll see if i still have some pics as it's a bit difficult to explain. :happy2:
Edit - Found them just uploading to PhotoBucket :happy2:
Edit 2 - Here you go
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fww275%2FTaufe%2F663c2455.jpg&hash=7fd1f1ae8cbf457da7da87e1442555b400643a6e)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fww275%2FTaufe%2F07e438ff.jpg&hash=c6ef55b6520139c75eed82395d4c84b7964c5157)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fww275%2FTaufe%2F896288cc.jpg&hash=c3d352c7af5cedea31247587a29d091c0a00ece7)
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Nice one :happy2:
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Any videos of any of the results Dave/Carl? :party: :popcornsoda:
Looks like a great little mod with cool extras. Ta :smiley:
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BTW fellas - my bad on the DRL turn off point; Drove to Cardiff today (from Northants) so hit the A14, M6, M42, M5 -> M4. All the Mercs and Audis I saw that had their headlights on for the rain had their DRL's on too. Mostly the MY2010 E classes and A6's + any age A5's.
If the DRL is close to the headlamp though, (on some models) it drowns out the natural light of the Xenon imo. Looks messy if they're too close like they're all part of the same cluster, which of course they're not, separate controls + wiring and bulbs.
Pointless having them on at night too, as after all they're daylight running lights. I'd still go for the dusk sensor turn off setup if I had any room to mount a set of the LED's like Carls though :indifferent:
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^^^^
I very much agree with you, Pete - Very messy looking when closely positioned and mixed with headlights. And utterly pointless when daylight has said nite-nite. I don't understand why some car manufacturers are giving the option of simultaneous headlights and DRL's.
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^^ Shame really, as all of them are £30k + cars. Makes the Xenons look cheap and dull imo.
Carl's, Dave's and your setup will look smarter as there's about 2 feet between both beam patterns :happy2:
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Quick update - the advice I gave regarding connecting the yellow DRL wire to the yellow/black on the car was based on the car with ignition on / engine off.
I fitted the DRLs today and wired them as mentioned previously and noticed that having the engine running gave a slightly different result. The next six pics are:
1. Ignition on / engine off / no lights
2. Ignition on / engine off / side lights
3. Ignition on / engine off / main lights
4. Engine on / no lights
5. Engine on / side lights
6. Engine on / main lights
Spot the difference between 3 and 6....with the engine running, when switching on the main beam, the DRL goes dim instead of going completely off. Not sure if I prefer this or not. I may get the multimeter out and test things again but with the engine running this time :ashamed: However, I'd be interested to hear opinions - DRLs dimmed with main beam or off???
1.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh5.ggpht.com%2F_DJyvoGGMXM8%2FTHwakvfC6UI%2FAAAAAAAAASg%2Fu7XO91ECunk%2Fs800%2FDSC_0001.JPG&hash=534bb8b525e659854bb2bb95255cbcc020aa840a)
2.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh5.ggpht.com%2F_DJyvoGGMXM8%2FTHwalihWCHI%2FAAAAAAAAASk%2FRDcJhMc0tdA%2Fs800%2FDSC_0002.JPG&hash=ed193c7a9954fecbeb67d612d5f61d08217f5d67)
3.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh5.ggpht.com%2F_DJyvoGGMXM8%2FTHwammJKhgI%2FAAAAAAAAASo%2F1C9TyBq6WNA%2Fs800%2FDSC_0003.JPG&hash=35a2ffda7082c1d141abf8aa6d4c7a6a5bbb48c7)
4.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh4.ggpht.com%2F_DJyvoGGMXM8%2FTHwanlH5yEI%2FAAAAAAAAASs%2FvVNDoUiJ0SU%2Fs800%2FDSC_0004.JPG&hash=dd54191a73054e2d33f875fdb26c51ba943a9532)
5.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh4.ggpht.com%2F_DJyvoGGMXM8%2FTHwaoV_OEPI%2FAAAAAAAAASw%2FaHByJq3ddDs%2Fs800%2FDSC_0005.JPG&hash=18c680affb1c80e87b1bd1d6be64e51a15a157f2)
6.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh6.ggpht.com%2F_DJyvoGGMXM8%2FTHwapbNkLVI%2FAAAAAAAAAS0%2FFM3V2shJkeM%2Fs800%2FDSC_0006.JPG&hash=58ce6b18a3b141034069d54735b4f731c64a243e)
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^^^^
In my opinion, all other lights should go off when DRL's are on.
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^^^^
In my opinion, all other lights should go off when DRL's are on.
I think I would agree with you, Robin - that would be my preference too.
On saying that, I do not think that there would be anything illegal about having the DRLs dim when other lights are switched on since the law only seems to say that it is not acceptable to dazzle others. I am certainly less happy with the DRLs being on full power at night even with headlamps lit - could be a bit 'iffy' legally and I am not comfortable with it morally....
....which brings me to Update #2....
I have been able to get the DRLs to dim with the sidelights. So Picture 5 in my previous post showing sidelights on has the DRLs operating but with the brightness shown in Picture 6.
This is done by wiring the yellow DRL wire into the grey/black wire going into position 10 on the wiring loom for the car lights. It seems that things behave differently when the headlamp is attached to the wiring connector which was why I was getting misleading readings with my multimeter when testing voltages on the connector only (without lamp unit attached).
However, I can not find any way of getting these DRLs to automatically go off when either the side lights or headlights are switched on - they only dim. There may be something I haven't discovered yet but I don't think so.
Interestingly Philips seem to have a competitor product to the DRLs that Carl and I have which look like they do switch off when other lights are on. However, they also seem to have an integrated control unit which may explain the clever stuff (and the price tag!). Here is a link to the installation book for them which also gives some useful information on what is legal in terms of DRLs and their positioning on a car
[pdf]http://www.powerbulbs.com/drl_guide_all_languages_final.pdf[/pdf]
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Here is a link to the installation book for them which also gives some useful information on what is legal in terms of DRLs and their positioning on a car
[pdf]http://www.powerbulbs.com/drl_guide_all_languages_final.pdf[/pdf]
^^^^ Link not displaying. I think you need to omit the html [pdf] enclosures.
http://www.powerbulbs.com/drl_guide_all_languages_final.pdf
Grrrr! Added problem is that my system rarely loads pdf files in the web browser (Firefox). I'll try Safari.
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.
I must admit that, style-wise, I prefer the LED strips to my round monkey-face LED's. But mine do look very well integrated on the Mk5 GTI and, most importantly, are functional and legal.
I still get the odd driver telling me he thinks my fogs are on, but at least he's seen me!
I once had a pedestrian politely tell me when I was at traffic lights. I thanked him but explained they were Daytime Running Lights. He looked totally blank and obviously didn't understand what they were! :rolleye:
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I must admit that, style-wise, I prefer the LED strips to my round monkey-face LED's. But mine do look very well integrated on the Mk5 GTI and, most importantly, are functional and legal.
I am very pleased with the overall look but I have to admit that I could not call them a 'seamless integration' like yours. I think Carl's DIY skills are better than mine as hidden behind my pretty pictures is a sordid tale of butchery, mutilation, silicone sealant and blasphemy ! :laugh:
On the plus side, these strip DRLs are ECE approved and, from what I can work out from the link to the fitting instructions for the Philips DRLs in my earllier link (that you kindly fixed for me!), also seem to be road legal.
I still get the odd driver telling me he thinks my fogs are on, but at least he's seen me!
I can see why folks may be confused with your DRLs, Robin but I guess getting seen (for all the right reasons) is what it's all about. I was reading about some anti-DRL campaign where one of their main arguments was that DRLs take away from other road users, like motorbikes, who use their lights to get themselves seen. Personally, I don't buy that - I would rather see both and can't see how a DRL on a car would 'reduce' the visibility of a motorbike.
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All this bollocks about DRL being dazzling and averting attention away from other road user is just that…..Bollocks.
If a strip of LED lights stop someone from seeing anything other than that particular car they shouldn't be driving and need to go straight to an Optician.
It's a sad state of todays society that people will always complain about anything.
Oh and my DIY Skills are probably the same as yours but 15 years in the Army you learn to Improvise, Adapt & Overcome and hide anything else in a layer of bullsh*t :laugh:
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^^^^
In some countries, the legal requirement (either proposed or established) is for DRL's to be switched off whenever other lights are switched on.
You keep on posting this tosh.
There is catgorically NO legal requirement for the DRLs to be compulsorily switched off when other lights are switched on. If it were as you claim, every Audi with DRLs would be breaking the law!
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Could the 'foglight as DRL' option in vcds play a part in something like Carls setup or similar?
That's good news however if the dealer mentioned its possible to configure?
....Is there actually an option in VCDS to use the foglights as DRL's on the Mk5 GTI or Octy?
I don't know about the Octy, but the Mk5 GTI definately has an option to set the standard fog lamps as DRLs.
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TT as good as you are i doubt you know the Road Legalities of EVERY country on the planet.
In RR defence he did say "in some countries" and cars are set up differently depending on the market :happy2:
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Could the 'foglight as DRL' option in vcds play a part in something like Carls setup or similar?
That's good news however if the dealer mentioned its possible to configure?
....Is there actually an option in VCDS to use the foglights as DRL's on the Mk5 GTI or Octy?
I don't know about the Octy, but the Mk5 GTI definately has an option to set the standard fog lamps as DRLs.
Im almost certain you can set the Foglight to be used as a DRL on the Octy. If i get chance i will have a look on the car later.
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AFAIK there's no DRL legislation in the UK as yet.
Erm, that is because the UK no longer makes its own laws regarding the construction of motor vehicles. The UKs long established "Road Vehicles Construction and Use Regulations Act" (known by the old bill as 'CUR') simply enshirines the relevent European Union "Type Approval".
The UK has been one of the slowest European countries to even take part in international consultations (surprise, surprise!) and when doing so has been generally anti.
Really, where do you get that from? Because from all my research, the UK has a very positive attidude about the inclusion of DRLs. I'm not referring to internet forums, but specifically referring to professional motoring organisations, such as RoSPA and the IAM - who both fully support the DRL inclusion.
I think it will be left to the car manufacturers to imitate Audi and follow generic European regulations.
Huh - there are NO 'generic' European regs or laws. European regulations are COMPULSORY for ALL EU member states (unless a country-specific exemption was initially agreed by member states). And no, before you ask, I am NOT a lawyer, but I did formerly study law relating to motor vehicle construction and use. And I have three close family members who are heavily involved in law in one way or another (Roads Policing Unit instructors and international barrister) - so I can generally post legalese issues with some high degree of confidence!
DRL's will be almost a marketing feature rather than their full safety advantages be recognised.
And . . . . what makes that any difference to say Ford, and their 'Intelligent Protection Systems' they very heavily marketed on the telly a few years back (which to the un-initiated was Ford-speak for an airbag and seatbelt tensioner system)!
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It's pointless having LED DRL's on at night because they're what's called a passive light and hardly illuminate the road.
Robin I disagree with you there.
Forgive me, but I think you may have misunderstood the Red leader. I think Red was trying to state that DRLs are NOT intended to illuminate the road ahead, DRLs are simply to attract attention from other road users - similar say to strobe lighting on aircraft.
My DRL's give quite a lot of light actually and light up the area immediately to the front of the car quite well.
That may be the case - but they wont (or shouldn't) throw a 'beam' of light down the road similar to either a conventional dipped beam, a conventional fog lamp, or a conventional main beam. Basically, you couldn't drive down a pitch black road at night with only your DRLs - and successfully navigate in the same proficient mannner as you would with headlamps.
Also LED can't be that bad considering the R8 V10 has LED headlights.
Yes, agreed. But those all-LED headlamps were painstakingly designed (it actually took them longer than they planned - rumour has it they were initially wanting them to go on the R8 V8 when it was first launched). And from the early mixed feedback, they arnt as good as the Xenons!
But DRL are designed to get you noticed rather than illuminate the road.
Exactly! :happy2:
From what I have been reading lately manufacturers are starting to do more research into LED technology as they can get more light for less power than halogen or HID.
LEDs can certainly be better than tungsten and even halogen - which is why they are becoming common in tail lights. The jury is still out on the LED vs HID arguement - yes, LEDs will consume less power than the 35 watt HID capsule - but in the R8 application, don't they need sommat like 130 separate LEDs to match the lumen output of a single HID? And the beam pattern of LEDs is considerably more difficult to engineer into a usable forward 'beam' (this was what took Audi so long to achieve).
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Pete/Carl/anyone - so the Audis have their DRLs switch off with the sidelights or the main lamps??
Audis with tungsten DRLs generally all switch off with sidelamps or headlamps. Audis with LED DRLs allow either option - ie, permanently on, or switch off with sides/heads. This is changeable via either the DIS or MMI.
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I don't know that they all do Dave. Some do but i think some don't. I know they dim when they use Indicators but thats because they are part of the Main light cluster.
That is because Audi are clever! :grin:
Actually, it is only the side which the indicator is flashing where the LED DRL dims - well cool me thinks!
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^^^^
I very much agree with you, Pete - Very messy looking when closely positioned and mixed with headlights. And utterly pointless when daylight has said nite-nite. I don't understand why some car manufacturers are giving the option of simultaneous headlights and DRL's.
The reason that they allow them to be on in conjuntion with the headlamps remains the same reason why DRLs are used by themselves in daylight - that is to attract attention. It is categorically NO different to say a motorcyclist who rides with headlamps on during the daytime, but who still get whiped out by dizzy ba$tards who just cant be arsed looking. DRLs (particularly LEDs) 'catch your eye' from a far greater range of angles than any headlamp, be that halogen or Xenon.
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Quick update - the advice I gave regarding connecting the yellow DRL wire to the yellow/black on the car was based on the car with ignition on / engine off.
I fitted the DRLs today and wired them as mentioned previously and noticed that having the engine running gave a slightly different result. The next six pics are:
6. Engine on / main lights
Spot the difference between 3 and 6....with the engine running, when switching on the main beam, the DRL goes dim instead of going completely off. Not sure if I prefer this or not. I may get the multimeter out and test things again but with the engine running this time :ashamed: However, I'd be interested to hear opinions - DRLs dimmed with main beam or off???
6.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh6.ggpht.com%2F_DJyvoGGMXM8%2FTHwapbNkLVI%2FAAAAAAAAAS0%2FFM3V2shJkeM%2Fs800%2FDSC_0006.JPG&hash=58ce6b18a3b141034069d54735b4f731c64a243e)
I likey! :happy2: :happy2:
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^^^^
In my opinion, all other lights should go off when DRL's are on.
Sadly Robin, that is just your opinion - and not the law!
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TT as good as you are i doubt you know the Road Legalities of EVERY country on the planet.
In RR defence he did say "in some countries" and cars are set up differently depending on the market :happy2:
Erm - when, specifically, did I state my knowledge of road laws in every country?
I didn't - and I, just like RedRobin, am ONLY referring to road laws applicable in the UK as set down in the European Parliament - so kindly refrain from trying to fudge my stance, whilst defending Robins nigh-on identical stance! Thanks. :smiley:
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TT as good as you are i doubt you know the Road Legalities of EVERY country on the planet.
In RR defence he did say "in some countries" and cars are set up differently depending on the market :happy2:
Erm - when, specifically, did I state my knowledge of road laws in every country?
I didn't - and I, just like RedRobin, am ONLY referring to road laws applicable in the UK as set down in the European Parliament - so kindly refrain from trying to fudge my stance, whilst defending Robins nigh-on identical stance! Thanks. :smiley:
Erm if i highlight the appropriate areas does that help.
^^^^
In some countries, the legal requirement (either proposed or established) is for DRL's to be switched off whenever other lights are switched on.
You keep on posting this tosh.
There is catgorically NO legal requirement for the DRLs to be compulsorily switched off when other lights are switched on. If it were as you claim, every Audi with DRLs would be breaking the law!
So that statement reads that there is No legal requirement in ANY country considering RR stated what he did and you debunked.
As good as i am im not a mind reader. I know there an no legalities over the issue in the UK i did enough research before installing mine.
So i wasn't trying to fudge your stance as you put it. I was basing my comment on what you wrote and RR wrote :drinking:
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It's pointless having LED DRL's on at night because they're what's called a passive light and hardly illuminate the road.
Robin I disagree with you there.
Forgive me, but I think you may have misunderstood the Red leader. I think Red was trying to state that DRLs are NOT intended to illuminate the road ahead, DRLs are simply to attract attention from other road users - similar say to strobe lighting on aircraft.
I knew that was just pointing out that an LED Light Source can be used to illuminate rather than attract attention
My DRL's give quite a lot of light actually and light up the area immediately to the front of the car quite well.
That may be the case - but they wont (or shouldn't) throw a 'beam' of light down the road similar to either a conventional dipped beam, a conventional fog lamp, or a conventional main beam. Basically, you couldn't drive down a pitch black road at night with only your DRLs - and successfully navigate in the same proficient mannner as you would with headlamps.
Correct i couldn't but there again if i use my NVG's :evilgrin:
Also LED can't be that bad considering the R8 V10 has LED headlights.
Yes, agreed. But those all-LED headlamps were painstakingly designed (it actually took them longer than they planned - rumour has it they were initially wanting them to go on the R8 V8 when it was first launched). And from the early mixed feedback, they arnt as good as the Xenons!
Having seen them against the R8 V8 HID's there is no discernable difference to the Naked eye of light output.
From what I have been reading lately manufacturers are starting to do more research into LED technology as they can get more light for less power than halogen or HID.
LEDs can certainly be better than tungsten and even halogen - which is why they are becoming common in tail lights. The jury is still out on the LED vs HID arguement - yes, LEDs will consume less power than the 35 watt HID capsule - but in the R8 application, don't they need sommat like 130 separate LEDs to match the lumen output of a single HID? And the beam pattern of LEDs is considerably more difficult to engineer into a usable forward 'beam' (this was what took Audi so long to achieve).
Nope they Use 4 LED's for the Main Beam
14 LED for the Low Beam (No i haven't got them the wrong way round)
8 Yellow for Indicators
24 LED for DRL
See Here:
R8 LED Headlights (http://www.worldcarfans.com/10708133838/audi-pioneers-all-led-headlamp-with-r8-model)
Also you say it's more difficult to direct the beam :confused: I am confused because all the work that we do in my job with various companies who provide us with light sources (majority of which are LED these days) it's very easy to get the beam exactly how you want it. But im not a lighting engineer so maybe it's different for car headlights.
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TT as good as you are i doubt you know the Road Legalities of EVERY country on the planet.
In RR defence he did say "in some countries" and cars are set up differently depending on the market :happy2:
Erm - when, specifically, did I state my knowledge of road laws in every country?
I didn't - and I, just like RedRobin, am ONLY referring to road laws applicable in the UK as set down in the European Parliament - so kindly refrain from trying to fudge my stance, whilst defending Robins nigh-on identical stance! Thanks. :smiley:
Erm if i highlight the appropriate areas does that help.
^^^^
In some countries, the legal requirement (either proposed or established) is for DRL's to be switched off whenever other lights are switched on.
You keep on posting this tosh.
There is catgorically NO legal requirement for the DRLs to be compulsorily switched off when other lights are switched on. If it were as you claim, every Audi with DRLs would be breaking the law!
So that statement reads that there is No legal requirement in ANY country considering RR stated what he did and you debunked.
As good as i am im not a mind reader. I know there an no legalities over the issue in the UK i did enough research before installing mine.
So i wasn't trying to fudge your stance as you put it. I was basing my comment on what you wrote and RR wrote :drinking:
Yes, yes, fairy-nuff. However, being as myself, RR, your good self, and no doubt other forum members will ONLY be using their cars in either the UK and/or mainland Europe - then I personally reckon it is unreasonable to drag in some potential law (or not) from Outer Mongolia, Turkmenistan, or Antarctica (and NOOOO - before you ask, I know cock all about their regs!) - we should just try and stick to the salient facts about what is relevent in the UK and EU, whilst maybe offering a passing reference to say North American differences (which would be valid, bearing in mind the US based sites like Vortex and GolfMkv.com).
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It's pointless having LED DRL's on at night because they're what's called a passive light and hardly illuminate the road.
Robin I disagree with you there.
Forgive me, but I think you may have misunderstood the Red leader. I think Red was trying to state that DRLs are NOT intended to illuminate the road ahead, DRLs are simply to attract attention from other road users - similar say to strobe lighting on aircraft.
I knew that was just pointing out that an LED Light Source can be used to illuminate rather than attract attention
Ho kay. :smiley: :happy2:
My DRL's give quite a lot of light actually and light up the area immediately to the front of the car quite well.
That may be the case - but they wont (or shouldn't) throw a 'beam' of light down the road similar to either a conventional dipped beam, a conventional fog lamp, or a conventional main beam. Basically, you couldn't drive down a pitch black road at night with only your DRLs - and successfully navigate in the same proficient mannner as you would with headlamps.
Correct i couldn't but there again if i use my NVG's :evilgrin:
Got a secret stash to share? :evilgrin:
Also LED can't be that bad considering the R8 V10 has LED headlights.
Yes, agreed. But those all-LED headlamps were painstakingly designed (it actually took them longer than they planned - rumour has it they were initially wanting them to go on the R8 V8 when it was first launched). And from the early mixed feedback, they arnt as good as the Xenons!
Having seen them against the R8 V8 HID's there is no discernable difference to the Naked eye of light output.
It wasn't the actual intensity of the light output - ie, the measure of lumens, which was the problem. It was actually trying to correctly focus the light output from the LEDs into a satisfactory 'beam' which can be appropriately measured (you must have seen the distinct shaped of a dipped headlamp beam on your garage door or similar), AND the ability to adjust said beam level to cope with differing vehicle loads (the dash-mounted thumbwheel to manually level halogens, or the automatic self leveling of HIDs - for when you have a couple of fat burds in the back).
From what I have been reading lately manufacturers are starting to do more research into LED technology as they can get more light for less power than halogen or HID.
LEDs can certainly be better than tungsten and even halogen - which is why they are becoming common in tail lights. The jury is still out on the LED vs HID arguement - yes, LEDs will consume less power than the 35 watt HID capsule - but in the R8 application, don't they need sommat like 130 separate LEDs to match the lumen output of a single HID? And the beam pattern of LEDs is considerably more difficult to engineer into a usable forward 'beam' (this was what took Audi so long to achieve).
Nope they Use 4 LED's for the Main Beam
14 LED for the Low Beam (No i haven't got them the wrong way round)
8 Yellow for Indicators
24 LED for DRL
See Here:
R8 LED Headlights (http://www.worldcarfans.com/10708133838/audi-pioneers-all-led-headlamp-with-r8-model)
I'm not too sure how acurate that WCF article is. My stealer told me there were sommat like 130 per headlamp housing, and I have had a close look at an R8 V10 - and yes, there are only 4 monster LEDs for the main beam, there looked to be considerably more for the dipped beam - unless it was the internal reflector playing trickery!
Also you say it's more difficult to direct the beam :confused: I am confused because all the work that we do in my job with various companies who provide us with light sources (majority of which are LED these days) it's very easy to get the beam exactly how you want it. But im not a lighting engineer so maybe it's different for car headlights.
OK, if you look very carefully at a naked LED (not one which has its usual clear plastic dome attached), an LED emits light from basically a flat surface, ie, in a single plane. Other light sources, be they tungsten filament or a HID capsule, they emit light in all directions and in all planes - in three dimensions if you will. Therefore, filament and HID generated light is considerably easy to 'reflect' or 'difuse' into an appropriate beam pattern, whereas surface emitting LEDs are considerably more difficult. Being as modern headlamps now only use plastic outer lenses/covers, the 'difusion' method of generating a beam (see old headlamps with glass outer lenses - with all their internal ridges in the glass), the only available method of generating a beam is reflection. Now, look side on at a tungsten or HID headlamp - the light source is always infront of a reflector, and the light is 'collected' from a rearwards 180degree angle (and either focussed through a fish-eye projector lens [HID], or just passed through the outer plastic lens [filament]). You can't do this with LEDs - you basically need to 're-invent the wheel' to get LED light output into a focus-able and definable beam pattern.
Oh, and another snippet of useful info - because the pattern of the light beam is now only generated by reflection and not diffusion, this explains the prevalence of headlamp washers on cars with plastic outer headlamp covers - and why it is also vital for HIDs to have washers. Because any cr@p on the outer plastic will difuse the beam beyond its normal design parameters.
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^^^^
When I wrote:
"In some countries, the legal requirement (either proposed or established) is for DRL's to be switched off whenever other lights are switched on."
I posted this "tosh" because I read it somewhere in many many pages of consultive documents and commissioned studies into the subject of DRL's from various countries in Europe including Scandinavia and also with some reference to America. I wish I had made a note of which docs so I could quote my sources exactly. But the point is that I read it in professional study documents and not just chat on an internet forum. I can only post information which I believe to the best of my ability to be true.
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I can see why folks may be confused with your DRLs, Robin but I guess getting seen (for all the right reasons) is what it's all about. I was reading about some anti-DRL campaign where one of their main arguments was that DRLs take away from other road users, like motorbikes, who use their lights to get themselves seen. Personally, I don't buy that - I would rather see both and can't see how a DRL on a car would 'reduce' the visibility of a motorbike.
....In one of the many studies I read, surveys in the UK in particular, noted that when DRL's are either in headlight format or at headlight level above the ground, they can conceal the single headlight of a motorbike in front. I think you'll find that this is why bikers are against them. I can see their reasoning and agree.
This is also why I'm personally against DRL's unless they are at lower level or in LED strip format (Audi style) so they are more difficult to confuse.
Additionally, this is also why I am in favour of DRL's being switched off when other lights are switched on < This was an aspect of my DRL's which carried a lot of weight in my favour when I was very politely challenged by the UK Police. But that might be down to the individual policeman/woman.
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So......i have quickly read through this very interesting thread and still would appreciate a pointer as to whether i should have the DRL,s swith off on main beam. I currently have them on all the time but could easily wire them up to swith off either on side lights or main Xenon,s. I don,t want to get fined but then again i like the look of them with my main lights on.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fs81%2Favinit%2FDRLs-1.jpg&hash=1f50e48c213c24d5262a3b15f372db5e39645fd9)
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I run them the same as you have there and have had no problems and I do a lot of work with the Fuhrer :smiley:
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Nice one Carl. I think for my own piece of mind i will wire them up to go off with main lights but stay on with side lights.