MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Sunglasses Ron on July 24, 2010, 03:08:37 pm
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Great day guys (well half day :grin:) and good to meet a few new Faces. Including Cupra R who I spent a couple of hours with after everyone had gone, watching Paul map there mental 580bhp Vauxhall Tigra :scared:
Reasonably happy with my results considering the OEM cooler, warm temps, sh*te intake and DD rollers..
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw6%2FCUPRA270%2FSDC11226.jpg&hash=a34cb490a682037382d31d838df9c959ece55598)
Power @ Wheels & AFR
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg293.imageshack.us%2Fimg293%2F899%2Fsdc11227.jpg&hash=3d01b2a2b62730dfd6cad5acffe95b4177e4b2cc) (http://img293.imageshack.us/i/sdc11227.jpg/)
I will let you boys give me your opinion as i'm no expert on RR graphs. But it's around what I hoped for after some strange logs on VCDS yesterday with Kev from Revo (apologies for my poor effort at copy and pasting the results from a couple of runs :ashamed:)
*EDIT, logs being amended to be more readable *
Just thought that the air mass is very low compared to some of the other logs i've seen by you lot. However, I did notice this morning that the front part of the intake wasn't sat flush with the front grill opening and nearly half of it was sitting underneath :confused:. Not sure if that had anything to do with it?
I have ordered one of PDT's Hybrid inventions to try and will be going back to RS Tuning shortly after to do another run to see what the results are.. Fingers crossed there should be a decent increase from what Dave has told me and it's not loud either :happy2:
Thoughts guys...
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U stage 2+As that hp is about the same as my stage 2
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U stage 2+As that hp is about the same as my stage 2
On same rollers?
Need someone to send these logs to as I have made a right pigs ear of that... Help! :scared:
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On Halifax dd rollers
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Well as a comparison, I know Hurdy got 340bhp and Jonny C's ED30 (when Stage 2 + etc) made 352bhp when there last winter. They certainly aint generous rollers, but not as stingy as JKM :signLOL:
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nice figures, anything you can do to smooth out the flat spot @ 3.5k??
transfer the posts into the dyno thread :happy2:
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Was a good morning, nice to meet a few forum faces :happy2:
When I left, they had the Tigra running 399.9bhp, I take it they mapped it up to 580bhp after that :surprised:?!
It sounded absolutly mental!
Matt
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Was a good morning, nice to meet a few forum faces :happy2:
When I left, they had the Tigra running 399.9bhp, I take it they mapped it up to 580bhp after that :surprised:?!
It sounded absolutly mental!
Matt
Good to meet you too Matt, when we got back you'd gone. Long drive home soon mate?
The Tigra made 390hp on just actuator pressure, they then started to dial in boost and fuel and acheived 580hp yes :congrats:
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quite alot of timing correction higher up in the rev range, theres even a -6 there, what settings you running Ben?
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Think Ben is running B8T5F6 iirc Gaz.
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^^^^
Am I right in thinking your AFR graph is all over the place and should be even and fairly flat?
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I run that myself, seems to be what Revo are recommending for stg2+, wonder if its a bit aggressive with std intercooler???
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Yes Gaz, as above. Kev and Carl seem to think it's fine, but wouldn't go anymore. It's the air mass that confuses me. 22Og/s when most make 260+???
I know Bacilious was about 25bhp down on Halifax results. Whether that means anything I don't know.
Cupra R got decents results..
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Yes Gaz, as above. Kev and Carl seem to think it's fine, but wouldn't go anymore. It's the air mass that confuses me. 22Og/s when most make 260+???
I know Bacilious was about 25bhp down on Halifax results. Whether that means anything I don't know.
Cupra R got decents results..
the most I've seen is 259, but the car always makes the numbers. I recently read something from PDT which basically said big airflow numbers didn't necessarily mean big power numbers, as the fuel and boost needs to be right. But 220 does seem on the low side
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Yes Ben, Mass airflow does seem low, am assuming that the log was not done today either? I see a max MAF of about 276g/s
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I wouldn't advise having a timing correction of -6 :surprised:
If you want you can send me the logs and i'll have a look at them :happy2:
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Done yesterday afternoon mate. AT of about 20oC. Do you think you opening of the intake not being lined up properly may of had anything to do with it Dom?
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Ben, your running a Dbilas intake right? If so that is more than likely the reason for the low airflow readings, not because its not physically able to flow more air but because the size of the maf housing is larger than most intakes causing it to under read. I wouldn't worry too much though as your ecu will correct the afr accordingly. I had a Dbilas intake prior to my ITG which i modified to correct the maf scaling after seeing lower airflow readings than expected and slightly lean fuel trims.
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This was one of my thoughts as I had read this on SCN before. She goes well enough and I'm sure she'll do 12's next time I run at Pod, so I'm happy.
Cheers for that though bud.
I am modifying my Dbilas next week and going back to RS Tuning for another run, so watch this space (hopefully lol)
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All I'll say is........I'm glad that wasn't my Clio! Now that did go with a bang!
Nice meet you all anyway :smiley:
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yikes at timing. It will eventually correct itself, but it is definitely riding the line
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Was a good morning, nice to meet a few forum faces :happy2:
When I left, they had the Tigra running 399.9bhp, I take it they mapped it up to 580bhp after that :surprised:?!
It sounded absolutly mental!
Matt
Good to meet you too Matt, when we got back you'd gone. Long drive home soon mate?
The Tigra made 390hp on just actuator pressure, they then started to dial in boost and fuel and acheived 580hp yes :congrats:
Yeah I had to head off, sorry bout that guy's. I must admit, after seeing a few of your cars yesterday it's definatly made me want a petrol next!
Thats some serious performance, i'm sure he said it weighed about 968kg with a driver in aswell! I was quite impressed with their set up and knowledge yesterday, definatly consider them for another map :happy2:
Matt
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any pics from the day?
what happened with the clio?
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what happened with the clio?
Timing belt snapped when on the dyno. :scared:
Everyone jumped at the loud bang when it happened.
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what happened with the clio?
Timing belt snapped when on the dyno. :scared:
Everyone jumped at the loud bang when it happened.
And the HUGE flame out of the back!!!!
Glad I am not the one having to tell the owner...
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I have a vid of it but not putting on here as I don't think it would be appropriate really. Real shame though as it was a supercharged 182 and was pushing 250bhp on 0.4 bar. Bet the thing shifted to be fair.
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Think it was in for the charger fitting.
Paul was doing some diags as it wasn't running right, before he dare fit the SC.
So a mapped Clio pushing 250 then bolting a SC on would propper mental.
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Think it was in for the charger fitting.
Paul was doing some diags as it wasn't running right, before he dare fit the SC.
So a mapped Clio pushing 250 then bolting a SC on would propper mental.
Was pulling that power thanks to the SC mate. Not before bud.. :surprised: :grin:
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Sure Paul said he wouldn't fit the SC until the fault had been fixed. But that power gain on a tuned car would make sense, not much left by Renault to map up.
He did mention SC Clio would put out over 300bhp.
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Sure Paul said he wouldn't fit the SC until the fault had been fixed. But that power gain on a tuned car would make sense, not much left by Renault to map up.
He did mention SC Clio would put out over 300bhp.
It definately had the SC fitted. Paul mentioned that he wanted to find his fault before the guy modded it anymore and the chap went and got the SC kit for it and eventually got it fitted. Paul was just finishing off the mapping. It made that power on just 0.4 bar so there was certainly some more head room if the timing belt hadn't gone for a sh*t..
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Bit of an update guys...
After the results I got at RS Tuning the other Sat, I have been wanting to get back on some DD rollers since I have upgraded my Dbilas Intake to PDT's Hybrid Dbilas intake (seen here http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16247.0.html ).
Well as I was working up in the North East today, I decided to call in on Dave and see if he could squeeze me in for a quick RR session.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw6%2FCUPRA270%2FSDC11263.jpg&hash=ca262a64e25f643c6496009fc19c7c03a40ce605)
Results:-
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw6%2FCUPRA270%2FSDC11267.jpg&hash=03373a2e4b30d86393b2f0e1c8d2e2a5fd8858c8)
Pretty pleased with the results I have to say (especially on DD rollers) and it would appear that Dave's findings about the standard Dbilas filter seem to be fairly conclusive (19.6bhp and 41 ft lb gain). Especially as he saw the same difference when he did back to back tests on his car with the Hybrid and the standard Dbilas intake. Now I know it's not quite as accurate on mine being on different rollers on differet days, but I have been led to believe that DD rollers shouldn't vary much even in different locations, so long as they are operated properly obviously.. :wink:
Just like to say a big thanks to Dave for all his advice (the guy knows his stuff :surprised:) and for squeezing me in today at short notice :happy2:
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just goes to show how much better the cars perform with an open filter :smiley:
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just goes to show how much better the cars perform with an open filter :smiley:
Or just one that doesn't have a lawn mower filter in the intake.. :surprised:
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but the scaling on those graphs is the worst ive seen on any dyno printout.
if that was spread out over the width of the graph instead of the middle third it would look massively better, and you would see your torque characteristics and how they correlate with the Hp curve better. it'd also be better if the torque and Hp values went up at the same scale on each side, look at hurdy's dyno graph in the NOS threas and you'll see what i mean
that minor thing aside, very commendable results for a dyno dynamics set of rollers.
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thats more than Hurdys in non NOS mode on a DD roller :surprised:
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thats more than Hurdys in non NOS mode on a DD roller :surprised:
but as i said johns would make more power if it was not strapped down so tight :rolleye: even rs tuning said that but due to nos they did not want it to move a mm
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but the scaling on those graphs is the worst ive seen on any dyno printout.
if that was spread out over the width of the graph instead of the middle third it would look massively better, and you would see your torque characteristics and how they correlate with the Hp curve better. it'd also be better if the torque and Hp values went up at the same scale on each side, look at hurdy's dyno graph in the NOS threas and you'll see what i mean
that minor thing aside, very commendable results for a dyno dynamics set of rollers.
Dave said he will re-scale it for me if I want. Might take him up on that.. :wink:
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thats more than Hurdys in non NOS mode on a DD roller :surprised:
but as i said johns would make more power if it was not strapped down so tight :rolleye: even rs tuning said that but due to nos they did not want it to move a mm
Not suprised Mat with that torque figure. It would move Leeds to the East coast if that came off.. :grin:
Not bad for the few mods and OEM cooler though.. :wink: Although it did drop 8bhp on another run, so shows where the Twintercooler would help, as Dave said his results didn't budge after 6 runs on his. :surprised:
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hmmm Stage 2+ must be done on the R.
But must resist......... :grin:
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That is an excellent result Ben :happy2:
355bhp on a DD is more than Jonnyc had when he set the 12.6 run (although he did have a little weight advantage :wink:). Should easily be in the 12's now.....and get some R1R's on there :laugh:
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thats more than Hurdys in non NOS mode on a DD roller :surprised:
but as i said johns would make more power if it was not strapped down so tight :rolleye: even rs tuning said that but due to nos they did not want it to move a mm
....Another probable reason why JKM won't accept NOS cars on their DD rollers: The results aren't going to be especially accurate.
I agree with vRSy about the printout scaling!
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I understand Hurdys being strapped tight, its what I would hae done.
However, what is accurate and what isnt (referring to robins coment) is irrelevant, what we should be looking at is the power with and without the NOS when strapped in the same way :smiley:
Thanks for calling in yesterday Sunglasses Ron, sorry about the waiting around for the dyno to become free but I supose you did get a free dyno session out of me :laugh: If anyone wants the graphs to a different scale then just ask, everyone scales their graphs differently, there is no right and wrong way to do it as its down to personal preference.
Rons results back up exactly what we found on our own ED30 when we switched from the Dbilas box to the open filter, I am planning on building some type of heat shield that feeds air from the front air intake in the grille and direct it around the filter, just have to try and get 5 mins to myself!
Dave.
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However, what is accurate and what isnt (referring to robins coment) is irrelevant, what we should be looking at is the power with and without the NOS when strapped in the same way :smiley:
....You're absolutely right :happy2:. I got lost in the moment of just looking at max bhp numbers which I'm usually so keen to avoid doing!
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If anyone wants the graphs to a different scale then just ask, everyone scales their graphs differently, there is no right and wrong way to do it as its down to personal preference.
Dave.
i just think it allows easier viewing of the curve itself and any flat spots/dips in the delivery. why have such a large graph and only use the middle third of the available plot area :happy2:
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I understand Hurdys being strapped tight, its what I would hae done.
However, what is accurate and what isnt (referring to robins coment) is irrelevant, what we should be looking at is the power with and without the NOS when strapped in the same way :smiley:
Thanks for calling in yesterday Sunglasses Ron, sorry about the waiting around for the dyno to become free but I supose you did get a free dyno session out of me :laugh: If anyone wants the graphs to a different scale then just ask, everyone scales their graphs differently, there is no right and wrong way to do it as its down to personal preference.
Rons results back up exactly what we found on our own ED30 when we switched from the Dbilas box to the open filter, I am planning on building some type of heat shield that feeds air from the front air intake in the grille and direct it around the filter, just have to try and get 5 mins to myself!
Dave.
If you could email me a rescaled graph Dave, that would be great :happy2: I have PM'd you my email address.. :wink: