MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: RedRobin on October 16, 2010, 05:43:05 pm
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If you wish to, please share your results, stating which car and give an overview of your mods. Plot graphs would be welcome and helpful to those interested.
All results are on JKM's Dyno-Dynamics rolling road.
A BIG Thank You to everyone who came and made it yet another enjoyable day :drinking:
And of course another BIG Thank You to JKM for being such excellent hosts etc. :drinking:
P.S. - If posting graphs you may also like to post them in the sticky thread here in this section: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16977.0.html
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FDetailing%2FStickers%2FThumbsUp_ani.gif&hash=6ab67a3fd95238066fa9727580582cb75c3f3f24)
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if your posting graphs get them in the sticky dyno thread at the top of this sub forum.
good to meet you guys :happy2:
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2004 Mk5 GTI - Revo Stage 1, K&N Panel Filter = Max 173.8 hp @ 5800 rpm, 185 lb\ft @ 3500 rpm
Took DV off after and found it to be knackered and most likely reason for low figure. Will return at some point to re-run it.
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E46 BMW M3 - 327.4hp & 270lb/ft - likely got heatsoaked due to them having a couple of issues with turning off the static limiter...
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2010 Scirocco R - Standard.
267.3 bhp @ 6500 rpm
270 lb/ft @ 3500 rpm
:happy2:
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233bhp stock eddy with a missing Stage2 Bluefin map. :confused:
Plugged in my Bluefin handset to check,only to find an error code with the map, so run a healthy stock 233bhp and 255 lb ft.
Will be calling Superchips just for a change to sort map issues out.
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Run 1: 263bhp@6500rpm, 265lb/ft@3600rpm..........B1T6F9
Run 2: 275bhp@6500rpm, 275lb/ft@3900rpm..........B5T6F9
Did the first run and wondered why it wasn't anywhere near 280bhp. JKM said it was a healthy looking graph and the car ran fine but the boost settings would need to be altered. I thought I'd left them at whatever Revo had loaded them as at GTI International.Turns out the settings were at B1T6F9. With the help of T_T, we adjusted them to B5T6F9 (I couldn't recall the precise settings) and ran the second time. After a few goes, it reached 275bhp. After having a chat with a few guys, I will readjust the settings to B7T5F9 and see what happens.
EDIT: I've had a look at the settings on my SPS switch. Default is B6T2F9, A is B1T6F9, B is B6T6F9, C is B7T6F9. Not sure how the default was set at that, but B6T6F9 is what's written in the booklet by the Revo guys.
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327.3bhp 295 lb/ft Slightly reduced power Stage 2+ Edition 30.
Jim and Keith seem to think there might be an issue with my injectors so the car is going back to be looked at in the near future and hopefully we will see the figures back up to where they should be!
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2007 GTi. Stage 2 REVO with miltek tbe and BSH intake.
249.8 bhp @ 5700rpm
290 lb ft torque @ 3700rpm
AFR about 12.2 across the range
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Run 1: 263bhp@6500rpm, 265lb/ft@3600rpm..........B1T6F9
Run 2: 275bhp@6500rpm, 275lb/ft@3900rpm..........B5T6F9
Did the first run and wondered why it wasn't anywhere near 280bhp. JKM said it was a healthy looking graph and the car ran fine but the boost settings would need to be altered. I thought I'd left them at whatever Revo had loaded them as at GTI International.Turns out the settings were at B1T6F9. With the help of T_T, we adjusted them to B5T6F9 (I couldn't recall the precise settings) and ran the second time. After a few goes, it reached 275bhp. After having a chat with a few guys, I will readjust the settings to B7T5F9 and see what happens.
EDIT: I've had a look at the settings on my SPS switch. Default is B6T2F9, A is B1T6F9, B is B6T6F9, C is B7T6F9. Not sure how the default was set at that, but B6T6F9 is what's written in the booklet by the Revo guys.
What was the drive home like? :wink:
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Run 1: 263bhp@6500rpm, 265lb/ft@3600rpm..........B1T6F9
Run 2: 275bhp@6500rpm, 275lb/ft@3900rpm..........B5T6F9
Did the first run and wondered why it wasn't anywhere near 280bhp. JKM said it was a healthy looking graph and the car ran fine but the boost settings would need to be altered. I thought I'd left them at whatever Revo had loaded them as at GTI International.Turns out the settings were at B1T6F9. With the help of T_T, we adjusted them to B5T6F9 (I couldn't recall the precise settings) and ran the second time. After a few goes, it reached 275bhp. After having a chat with a few guys, I will readjust the settings to B7T5F9 and see what happens.
EDIT: I've had a look at the settings on my SPS switch. Default is B6T2F9, A is B1T6F9, B is B6T6F9, C is B7T6F9. Not sure how the default was set at that, but B6T6F9 is what's written in the booklet by the Revo guys.
You could of probably squeezed another few bhp out of her on a higher boost setting mate (7, 8 or even 9). Good figures though :happy2: Is this a Stage 2 GTI I take it?
*EDIT* Just read on other thread that yours is a Stage 1 Ed30 :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: I'm sorry, but what is it with JKM's rollers and mapped cars? As Chungsters .:R was making about the same as a Stage 1 Ed30 with the same engine!!! How is this at all possible? If it is, then there are an awful lot of people on this forum waving there willys in the air after thinking their gain of 5bhp on their cars from a Stage 1 map is out of this world :surprised:
Are they all wrong?
Glad I couldn't make it now TBH, as I would of only left there, having driven all that way, p*ssed off after probably being told me car was less than 300 bhp.. :stupid:
Rant over..
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327.3bhp 295 lb/ft Slightly reduced power Stage 2+ Edition 30.
Jim and Keith seem to think there might be an issue with my injectors so the car is going back to be looked at in the near future and hopefully we will see the figures back up to where they should be!
What she like on the road bud? Any changes you've noticed recently? That torque figure seems a bit low for Stage 2+.. :confused:
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2006 GTi DSG Stage 2 AMD with milltek tbe and Pipercross panel filter.
252.9 bhp @ 5500rpm
270 lb ft torque @ 3500rpm
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Sunglasses Ron, did you find your missing torque then?
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Sunglasses Ron, did you find your missing torque then?
Still there mate (I think :scared: ) :happy2: Find out at Pod next week I suppose.. :wink:
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I thought you were running today?
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If you wish to, please share your results, stating which car and give an overview of your mods. Plot graphs would be welcome and helpful to those interested.
How did yours do then, Robin?
Thanks from me to you and the gang at JKM for the day out btw. Enjoyed it muchly.
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I thought you were running today?
No mate, had to cancel as that would of been 3 weekends on the bounce doing car meets. Oh and it clashed with our anniversary trip to York and she wasn't to keen on going by herself for some reason.. :confused: :grin:
You not fancy it next Sunday bud?
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I thought you were running today?
No mate, had to cancel as that would of been 3 weekends on the bounce doing car meets. Oh and it clashed with our anniversary trip to York and she wasn't to keen on going by herself for some reason.. :confused: :grin:
You not fancy it next Sunday bud?
Unfortunately i,m stuck at work. To be honest its a real long drive for me and if i did decide to go i would prefer to do it in the summer. Looks like an excellent turn out though. B sure to post up your best time. You hoping for 12,s
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Revo Stage 1, Revo DSG Stage 1, K&N Panel Filter.
Today's results: 270.4hp, 260 lb/ft.
Excactly a month ago it made 277.3hp, 278 lb/ft. Was advised by Keith last time to change from Momentum99 to V-Power to try to increase the torque figure, it has decreased even more though! :scared: Seems to be a possible underlying issue somewhere so I have booked it in with JKM to do some on road logging etc. :happy2:
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I thought you were running today?
No mate, had to cancel as that would of been 3 weekends on the bounce doing car meets. Oh and it clashed with our anniversary trip to York and she wasn't to keen on going by herself for some reason.. :confused: :grin:
You not fancy it next Sunday bud?
Unfortunately i,m stuck at work. To be honest its a real long drive for me and if i did decide to go i would prefer to do it in the summer. Looks like an excellent turn out though. B sure to post up your best time. You hoping for 12,s
Would like to think so, 13.1 @ Stage 2 with just panel filter, so with intake, pump and Stage 2+ map I would hope so, but who knows? :confused:
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What was the drive home like? :wink:
Much, much better, thank you!
You could of probably squeezed another few bhp out of her on a higher boost setting mate (7, 8 or even 9).
Yep - I'm gonna go for B7T5F9 and see how that works. Or I may decide to head down to JKM in the future and optimise the settings using the RR.
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I think a trip to motorscopes rolling road pays dividends, at least you can walk away with a smile on your face :laugh:
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Run 1: 263bhp@6500rpm, 265lb/ft@3600rpm..........B1T6F9
Run 2: 275bhp@6500rpm, 275lb/ft@3900rpm..........B5T6F9
Did the first run and wondered why it wasn't anywhere near 280bhp. JKM said it was a healthy looking graph and the car ran fine but the boost settings would need to be altered. I thought I'd left them at whatever Revo had loaded them as at GTI International.Turns out the settings were at B1T6F9. With the help of T_T, we adjusted them to B5T6F9 (I couldn't recall the precise settings) and ran the second time. After a few goes, it reached 275bhp. After having a chat with a few guys, I will readjust the settings to B7T5F9 and see what happens.
EDIT: I've had a look at the settings on my SPS switch. Default is B6T2F9, A is B1T6F9, B is B6T6F9, C is B7T6F9. Not sure how the default was set at that, but B6T6F9 is what's written in the booklet by the Revo guys.
You could of probably squeezed another few bhp out of her on a higher boost setting mate (7, 8 or even 9). Good figures though :happy2: Is this a Stage 2 GTI I take it?
*EDIT* Just read on other thread that yours is a Stage 1 Ed30 :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: I'm sorry, but what is it with JKM's rollers and mapped cars? As Chungsters .:R was making about the same as a Stage 1 Ed30 with the same engine!!! How is this at all possible? If it is, then there are an awful lot of people on this forum waving there willys in the air after thinking their gain of 5bhp on their cars from a Stage 1 map is out of this world :surprised:
Are they all wrong?
Glad I couldn't make it now TBH, as I would of only left there, having driven all that way, p*ssed off after probably being told me car was less than 300 bhp.. :stupid:
Rant over..
Quick question, what gear should you think rolling road power runs should be taken Ben?
and Lee, whats the manufacturers stated bhp and torque figures for you Stock R out of interest? comparing it to jkm's rollers?
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I think a trip to motorscopes rolling road pays dividends, at least you can walk away with a smile on your face :laugh:
....If your point is that going on JKM's DD rollers doesn't pay dividends and you don't walk away smiling, you ought to think again. As has been said countless times and is appreciated by most drivers, it's all about driveability and the plotted curves - Not all about willy waving the highest bhp numbers. It's all relative and a rolling-road session is an opportunity to health-check your car. Several folks were very glad that JKM were able to identify and solve minor problems on their cars and will have driven away smiling.
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How did yours do then, Robin?
....255.8 bhp + a good torque curve and AFR. Was 261.4 @ JKM in February. She's not the fastest kid on the block but she handles extremely well and has plenty of power for enthusiastic driving - I'm happy :happy2:
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if your posting graphs get them in the sticky dyno thread at the top of this sub forum.
good to meet you guys :happy2:
....Hi Sy - Good to meet you at last! :happy2:
I've added the suggestion in my original post.
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Quick question, what gear should you think rolling road power runs should be taken Ben?
and Lee, whats the manufacturers stated bhp and torque figures for you Stock R out of interest? comparing it to jkm's rollers?
It should either be done in 3rd or 4th depending on the operaters preference. Some say 4th as it is 1:1 but it is all irrelevant as all you are doing is measuring how much work the engine can do.
It will produce the same hp in 6th as 1st but to measure it in 1st would be very difficult :smiley:
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^^^^
I noticed that Jim was very definite about running in 4th gear when asked on Saturday.
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Run 1: 263bhp@6500rpm, 265lb/ft@3600rpm..........B1T6F9
Run 2: 275bhp@6500rpm, 275lb/ft@3900rpm..........B5T6F9
Did the first run and wondered why it wasn't anywhere near 280bhp. JKM said it was a healthy looking graph and the car ran fine but the boost settings would need to be altered. I thought I'd left them at whatever Revo had loaded them as at GTI International.Turns out the settings were at B1T6F9. With the help of T_T, we adjusted them to B5T6F9 (I couldn't recall the precise settings) and ran the second time. After a few goes, it reached 275bhp. After having a chat with a few guys, I will readjust the settings to B7T5F9 and see what happens.
EDIT: I've had a look at the settings on my SPS switch. Default is B6T2F9, A is B1T6F9, B is B6T6F9, C is B7T6F9. Not sure how the default was set at that, but B6T6F9 is what's written in the booklet by the Revo guys.
Eddy - Revo Stage 1 with vwr panel filter, V-power
Run 1: 252bhp@6400rpm, 250lb/ft@3400rpm..........B0T0F0 had disconnected battery and did not know it resets everything to valet mode :stupid: :stupid: and cleared some fault codes (thanks to those who helped sort it all out for me.) :happy2:
Run 2: 274bhp@6100rpm, 290lb/ft@3700rpm..........B7T5F9
Had a great day and good to catch up with people, thanks to all. :drinking:
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^^^^
I noticed that Jim was very definite about running in 4th gear when asked on Saturday.
Yes but if your car produces a billion horsepower it will do that in all gears, it is just easier to measure if you use a higher one.
Ideally you would use 6th as that gives you the greatest granularity, but completely pointless.
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^^^^
I noticed that Jim was very definite about running in 4th gear when asked on Saturday.
Yes but if your car produces a billion horsepower it will do that in all gears, it is just easier to measure if you use a higher one.
Ideally you would use 6th as that gives you the greatest granularity, but completely pointless.
Crickey Hedge, you had a dictionary for breakfast.
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I think a trip to motorscopes rolling road pays dividends, at least you can walk away with a smile on your face :laugh:
....If your point is that going on JKM's DD rollers doesn't pay dividends and you don't walk away smiling, you ought to think again. As has been said countless times and is appreciated by most drivers, it's all about driveability and the plotted curves - Not all about willy waving the highest bhp numbers. It's all relative and a rolling-road session is an opportunity to health-check your car. Several folks were very glad that JKM were able to identify and solve minor problems on their cars and will have driven away smiling.
Thanks to you and JKM for organising a great day, Robin :happy2: . Here is the plot from my Octavia VRS running a 'developmental' map which should be equivalent to a Stage 2+
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh4.ggpht.com%2F_DJyvoGGMXM8%2FTLq-a-naIEI%2FAAAAAAAAAWw%2FHYO18uN2BdA%2Fs800%2FJKM_SHARK3a.jpg&hash=720e3d9eb502319856e47c994c469ed1be9fa214)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_DJyvoGGMXM8%2FTLq-bEF88zI%2FAAAAAAAAAW0%2FWNnPy1Fv4RA%2Fs800%2FJKM_SHARK3b.jpg&hash=dd431ca92f6fe1508ac1e4e8c7e31d07d0692f6b)
Will post up on Sy's sticky thread too.
Dave
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^^^^
I noticed that Jim was very definite about running in 4th gear when asked on Saturday.
Yes but if your car produces a billion horsepower it will do that in all gears, it is just easier to measure if you use a higher one.
Ideally you would use 6th as that gives you the greatest granularity, but completely pointless.
Where that in the Dico? :signLOL:
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For those that didn't go to school http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granularity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granularity) :P
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Run 1: 263bhp@6500rpm, 265lb/ft@3600rpm..........B1T6F9
Run 2: 275bhp@6500rpm, 275lb/ft@3900rpm..........B5T6F9
Did the first run and wondered why it wasn't anywhere near 280bhp. JKM said it was a healthy looking graph and the car ran fine but the boost settings would need to be altered. I thought I'd left them at whatever Revo had loaded them as at GTI International.Turns out the settings were at B1T6F9. With the help of T_T, we adjusted them to B5T6F9 (I couldn't recall the precise settings) and ran the second time. After a few goes, it reached 275bhp. After having a chat with a few guys, I will readjust the settings to B7T5F9 and see what happens.
EDIT: I've had a look at the settings on my SPS switch. Default is B6T2F9, A is B1T6F9, B is B6T6F9, C is B7T6F9. Not sure how the default was set at that, but B6T6F9 is what's written in the booklet by the Revo guys.
You could of probably squeezed another few bhp out of her on a higher boost setting mate (7, 8 or even 9). Good figures though :happy2: Is this a Stage 2 GTI I take it?
*EDIT* Just read on other thread that yours is a Stage 1 Ed30 :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: I'm sorry, but what is it with JKM's rollers and mapped cars? As Chungsters .:R was making about the same as a Stage 1 Ed30 with the same engine!!! How is this at all possible? If it is, then there are an awful lot of people on this forum waving there willys in the air after thinking their gain of 5bhp on their cars from a Stage 1 map is out of this world :surprised:
Are they all wrong?
Glad I couldn't make it now TBH, as I would of only left there, having driven all that way, p*ssed off after probably being told me car was less than 300 bhp.. :stupid:
Rant over..
Quick question, what gear should you think rolling road power runs should be taken Ben?
and Lee, whats the manufacturers stated bhp and torque figures for you Stock R out of interest? comparing it to jkm's rollers?
Every RR i've been on has been run in 4th from what I have seen. Yes JKM's stock car results are bang on Steve, but that wasn't my point. I said that they don't seem to like mapped cars!!! Unless of course a 5 bhp increase on a mapped KO4 is about right? :confused:
What happened to your map anyway Steve? :surprised: How has that happened?
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I think a trip to motorscopes rolling road pays dividends, at least you can walk away with a smile on your face :laugh:
....If your point is that going on JKM's DD rollers doesn't pay dividends and you don't walk away smiling, you ought to think again. As has been said countless times and is appreciated by most drivers, it's all about driveability and the plotted curves - Not all about willy waving the highest bhp numbers. It's all relative and a rolling-road session is an opportunity to health-check your car. Several folks were very glad that JKM were able to identify and solve minor problems on their cars and will have driven away smiling.
Totally agree Robin, and I would much rather have a lower accurate reading from a RR than a willy waving one. But it doesn't get away from the fact that according to JKM's figures a S3/Cupra R/Golf R or Rocco R will only make gains of aabout 5 bhp?!?! :confused: If this is right, then there are an awful lot of disillusioned people out there that have been ripped off!
Also (and i'm not pointing fingers here) but i've never seen so many cars suffer from problems (that JKM can sort) when attending a RR day there? :confused:
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I think a trip to motorscopes rolling road pays dividends, at least you can walk away with a smile on your face :laugh:
why do they give away free horsepower in doggy bags do they??? someone on here with a cupra, left a previous RR day(Think it was surreys DD rollers) and went straight to another set of rollers to get new figures which were nearer to his willy waiving claims :grin: :grin:
if your car makes good figures on a DD roller, you know that your car is running well. as it happens every DD roller that i have been on makes pretty much identical figures to what i make on JKMs
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I think a trip to motorscopes rolling road pays dividends, at least you can walk away with a smile on your face :laugh:
....If your point is that going on JKM's DD rollers doesn't pay dividends and you don't walk away smiling, you ought to think again. As has been said countless times and is appreciated by most drivers, it's all about driveability and the plotted curves - Not all about willy waving the highest bhp numbers. It's all relative and a rolling-road session is an opportunity to health-check your car. Several folks were very glad that JKM were able to identify and solve minor problems on their cars and will have driven away smiling.
Totally agree Robin, and I would much rather have a lower accurate reading from a RR than a willy waving one. But it doesn't get away from the fact that according to JKM's figures a S3/Cupra R/Golf R or Rocco R will only make gains of aabout 5 bhp?!?! :confused: If this is right, then there are an awful lot of disillusioned people out there that have been ripped off!
Also (and i'm not pointing fingers here) but i've never seen so many cars suffer from problems (that JKM can sort) when attending a RR day there? :confused:
5Hp peak though, there will be bigger gains at points across the RPM range as well as an increase in torque across the entire curve. me personally i think it would be a waste of time to stage 1 an S3/cupra R. unless you do it with an intake/fuel pump or go dtraight to stage 2
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Glad I couldn't make it now TBH, as I would of only left there, having driven all that way, p*ssed off after probably being told me car was less than 300 bhp.. :stupid:
Rant over..
It seems quite a simple concept to me, if you put a stock car on there and it makes stock figures then you put a mapped car on and it makes xyz figures then that's what that car is doing on the day.
Some of the cars that had less then 'expected' figures had problems which were discussed with the owners at the time. Notably Theo's car was very smokey and there was a suggestion of investigating injectors. Mukipup's car appears to have a less than ideal map, look at the AFR. Theo had his REVO settings at the wrong level. Steve Saint has issues with his Bluefin.
Which was the car that made 5hp over stock on Stage 1?? I might have missed that one. :evilgrin:
You've been around long enough to know the score here and have argued the point many times before. :happy2:
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me personally i think it would be a waste of time to stage 1 an S3/cupra R. unless you do it with an intake/fuel pump or go dtraight to stage 2
I know someone that had an 8P S3 with Stage 1 Software, Panel Filter and Milltek Downpipe that made circa 330hp and strong torque on the rollers at Surrey Rolling Road. Wouldn't call that pointless.
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was only joking mate :signLOL:
Thought I would get a couple of bites with that one :grin:
I totally agree, its a dyno lottery anyway. At least you get an idea if your car is running properly etc. My last car was dynod on DD rollers, and found that it wasnt running right, and I sorted the problem, so it was a good fault finding tool.
The good old saying that they are designed more for setting up and live mapping cars, than they are for a precise measuring tool can also be said.
Just like the motorscope day when the rs focus bloke found out he paid £2500 for a mountune tuning package, that actually produced 20 bhp less than a standard RS focus with a panel filter on the same day etc etc
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I think a trip to motorscopes rolling road pays dividends, at least you can walk away with a smile on your face :laugh:
why do they give away free horsepower in doggy bags do they??? someone on here with a cupra, left a previous RR day(Think it was surreys DD rollers) and went straight to another set of rollers to get new figures which were nearer to his willy waiving claims :grin: :grin:
if your car makes good figures on a DD roller, you know that your car is running well. as it happens every DD roller that i have been on makes pretty much identical figures to what i make on JKMs
My Stage 1 ED30 made 296.8bhp on RS Tunings DD's, so....... should I get the same/very similar figure then at JKM (which I'm 270 miles away from) ?
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My Stage 1 ED30 made 296.8bhp on RS Tunings DD's, so....... should I get the same/very similar figure then at JKM (which I'm 270 miles away from) ?
You should so long as the variables are the same, the Dyno is operated properly and you use similar fuel. On the bottom of a DD graph is a set of variables which can be replicated on another dyno.
Not lashing the car down properly is another way to 'vary' the reported output.
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me personally i think it would be a waste of time to stage 1 an S3/cupra R. unless you do it with an intake/fuel pump or go dtraight to stage 2
I know someone that had an 8P S3 with Stage 1 Software, Panel Filter and Milltek Downpipe that made circa 330hp and strong torque on the rollers at Surrey Rolling Road. Wouldn't call that pointless.
as said above in the post, i think its pointless unless unless you are running extra hardware
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My Stage 1 ED30 made 296.8bhp on RS Tunings DD's, so....... should I get the same/very similar figure then at JKM (which I'm 270 miles away from) ?
....Theoretically I'd say yes. But of course there are many variable factors dependent both on the day and your car on the day. That's the trouble every time we folks have a rolling-road results discussion - There are just so many variables but it's natural to focus on our bhp numbers (we're blokes - we like our willy's!). I'll go to other r-r sessions but more for the social. I go to the same r-r (JKM) to monitor relative differences and for a health check as well as the social. Plus JKM know my individual car and I tend to trust their judgements.
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I think a trip to motorscopes rolling road pays dividends, at least you can walk away with a smile on your face :laugh:
why do they give away free horsepower in doggy bags do they??? someone on here with a cupra, left a previous RR day(Think it was surreys DD rollers) and went straight to another set of rollers to get new figures which were nearer to his willy waiving claims :grin: :grin:
if your car makes good figures on a DD roller, you know that your car is running well. as it happens every DD roller that i have been on makes pretty much identical figures to what i make on JKMs
My Stage 1 ED30 made 296.8bhp on RS Tunings DD's, so....... should I get the same/very similar figure then at JKM (which I'm 270 miles away from) ?
]
Exactly.. I'm not just comparing JKM with just any other dyno, i'm also reffering to other DD rollers, which are giving sigificantly different results to what JKM's do..
Also, if a stock car makes stock results and a mapped car makes x/y/z figures on JKM's rollers, then how come at Motorscope for instance when stock cars were making stock figures (which a lot did) the mapped figures on a KO4 car were a lot higher?
I too do prefer DD rollers and have been making between 340-355bhp on them. But going off JKM's results, I doubt I would make 310bhp TBH... :ashamed: :surprised:
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Willy waving is what RR days are all about + the chat and to talk shop and review mods and see if you car is running okay etc etc etc :laugh:
Dyno Dynamics rollers in shootout mode should be on standard settings and this is what gives them the great consistency that everyone raves/moans about. :happy2:
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if you want free hosepower you get them to loosen the dyno straps so it can ride up the rollers.
ed30
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jkm.org.uk%2Fperformance%2FMisc%2FTech%2FDyno%2520Testing%2FNadeemClimbingBIG.gif&hash=1229d84ac1e8d40b5b72a9ca67dc4c082dde5df9)
k04 vRS
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jkm.org.uk%2Fperformance%2FMisc%2FTech%2FDyno%2520Testing%2FMayoClimbingBIG.gif&hash=e35eafb7182813f1daf327f5ebf5fcd30e1938f3)
thats where most of the variable come from
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^^^^^^
That's why I lost around 3% power on my last ever dyno run with the ED30 as the car was strapped down soooooo tightly even the operator said I'd lose the power, but they had to jigstrap it down so it didn't run off the rollers when I had the nitrous on :chicken:
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I was waiting for this one to come up.. :signLOL: This can obviously make a difference, but I have spoke to 3 other DD roller operators that say the complete opposite to what JKM do.. So who's right? :confused:
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if you want free hosepower you get them to loosen the dyno straps so it can ride up the rollers.
thats where most of the variable come from
....Further influenced by variables such as tyre conditions (temp/pressure etc). Ask Saint Steve! (IIRC).
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Basically, only look at rollers on the same day to compare cars and ensure that they are all strapped down in the same way for consistency :happy2:
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Willy waving is what RR days are all about + the chat and to talk shop and review mods and see if you car is running okay etc etc etc :laugh:
....For me too, all those things are what r-r days are about but in a different order of importance - i.e. willy waving is last not first (unless there are hot girlies around :evilgrin:).
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I was waiting for this one to come up.. :signLOL: This can obviously make a difference, but I have spoke to 3 other DD roller operators that say the complete opposite to what JKM do.. So who's right? :confused:
Yours must have been to tight and mine too slack then ron :congrats:
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I was waiting for this one to come up.. :signLOL: This can obviously make a difference, but I have spoke to 3 other DD roller operators that say the complete opposite to what JKM do.. So who's right? :confused:
Yours must have been to tight and mine too slack then ron :congrats:
Think mine got a bit heat soaked mate (open filter on mine, well was) as it was showing ITs of 48oC when it came off... :confused: :surprised: I've been doing some tests on mine this morning with the open filter compared with the closed dbilas filter and when pulled up, the open filter was reading 15oC higher than the closed unit :surprised: On the road the open cone was spot on (as it was getting the air) but when pulled up/not moving it was sucking in to much hot air I think as it's not positioned near the headlight like for instance a ITG ( which also has protection from the hot air) mine was positioned right next to the car's air intake (ie a lot closer to the heat of the engine)..
Having said all that, it might make bog all difference. I'm just going off logs to be fair.. :grin:
You coming to Pod next week mate? Could compare them there? :evilgrin:
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I was goin to have a dodge down, but after discovering it was a 4hr drive just to get there, and known my luck it would probably pour down with rain when I got there! :sad1:
Think I might do one at York next year as it's not as far :happy2:
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@ saint steve
The book says 265 ps (261 bhp) @ 6000 rpm
Torque is 258 lb ft @ 2500 rpm
Mine was 267 bhp @ 6500 rpm and 270 lb ft at 3500 rpm.
Looking at the graph, at 6000 rpm it has 260 bhp and at 2500 rpm 180 lb ft torque lol
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@janner_sy
Who wants free horsepower ? ...... not me. I want to know what the car has got, how it puts it down and that it is an accurate measurement that can be replicated on other DD Dynos. I've seen those graphs from JKM's site before anyway.
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I was waving my willy this morning, but the wife told me to put it away and go and get the kettle on. :evilgrin: :evilgrin:
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I think a trip to motorscopes rolling road pays dividends, at least you can walk away with a smile on your face :laugh:
....If your point is that going on JKM's DD rollers doesn't pay dividends and you don't walk away smiling, you ought to think again. As has been said countless times and is appreciated by most drivers, it's all about driveability and the plotted curves - Not all about willy waving the highest bhp numbers. It's all relative and a rolling-road session is an opportunity to health-check your car. Several folks were very glad that JKM were able to identify and solve minor problems on their cars and will have driven away smiling.
I agree with Robin it is how the drives more than the RR figures but I think its bad that they can vary so much.
On AMD's RR in June 2010 at a Seat RR day my car at stage 1 with panel filter it was 257 bhp and 274 lb/ft of torque @ 3200 rpm. Others from this forum were there and their results were roughly what they were expecting.
In August 2010 at stage 2 with TBE exhaust and panel filter my car was 272 bhp and 302 lb/ft of torque @ 3900 rpm.
At JKM on Saturday it was back down to 252 bhp and 270 lb/ft of torque.
Does my car have a problem which is why the power is down? It has been away having some bodywork repairs or is it that the AMD results at stage 2 are totally unrealistic?
I am very confused. Could AMD massage their results to suit that much? The car felt so much better after stage 2 that I cannot believe there was not a good power increase.
I have no problem with the quality of the maps but the results don't add up. :confused:
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A few of you know I came all the way down from Brum for this meet. The main reason was the opportunity to compare the car before and after stage 1.
I've run at JKM twice before - first time was 232bhp, the second was 224bhp (remember me ranting and raving about the missing 8bhp? :grin:). Hence the comparison is more meaningful.
Anyway, after a few runs on B5T6F9, I got 275bhp.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fstealthwolf%2FED30%2Fstage_1-1.jpg&hash=299f080669eccb8ce2aff3117f52bb3e4786357a)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fstealthwolf%2FED30%2Fstage_1-2.jpg&hash=58682800212adc96f169f369c6e396051b580754)
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I agree with Robin it is how the drives more than the RR figures but I think its bad that they can vary so much.
On AMD's RR in June 2010 at a Seat RR day my car at stage 1 with panel filter it was 257 bhp and 274 lb/ft of torque @ 3200 rpm. Others from this forum were there and their results were roughly what they were expecting.
In August 2010 at stage 2 with TBE exhaust and panel filter my car was 272 bhp and 302 lb/ft of torque @ 3900 rpm.
At JKM on Saturday it was back down to 252 bhp and 270 lb/ft of torque.
Does my car have a problem which is why the power is down? It has been away having some bodywork repairs or is it that the AMD results at stage 2 are totally unrealistic?
I am very confused. Could AMD massage their results to suit that much? The car felt so much better after stage 2 that I cannot believe there was not a good power increase.
I have no problem with the quality of the maps but the results don't add up. :confused:
if you see the graphs in post #48 on JKMs dyno you can see how easy it is to gain 20Hp by not strapping it as well as it should be. that would be the easiest way to get extra horsepower. Changing your settings like ambient temp/pressure etc is obvious as these are all shown on the dyno printouts so they would be unlikely to do so.
id be very happy with your map tbh. it made good stage 2 figures with no intake and was comparable to all the other k03 stage 2 guys running intakes. stick an intake on yours and id be sure you'd push the 260Hp amark and surpass them with no issues. id say your torque curve held for longer as well.
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guys if you can post your graphs in the dyno thread here so we have a one stop shop for people looking around :happy2: :happy2:, its always noce to be able to compare directly :party:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16977.0.html (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16977.0.html)
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Robert74...
I think if you add a HPFP to your car, then you might see a true ~270bhp.
Most people would say S1 to S2 on a K03 doesn't really give u that much. S2+ however is different but not sure how flexible the AMD S2 map is to utilising the HPFP.
I know they said to me if going S2 or S2+ Revo is the better option (that was in relation to my car tho)
on a seperate note...i just love Post RR session debriefs. Happens every time! :signLOL:
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Robert74...
I think if you add a HPFP to your car, then you might see a true ~270bhp.
Most people would say S1 to S2 on a K03 doesn't really give u that much. S2+ however is different but not sure how flexible the AMD S2 map is to utilising the HPFP.
id agree with that, going from stage 2 up to stage 2+ felt like a much bigger improvement in comparison to from stage 1 to stage 2.
@ robert Have you ever logged your car to see what the specified rail pressure is. If its like revo and requesting near the full capacity(125-130 bar) then you will see a definite improvement without adjusting the map. if its conservative it would be a waste of time without a stage 2+ map as the standard pump wouldnt be struggling at all
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I was waving my willy this morning, but the wife told me to put it away and go and get the kettle on. :evilgrin: :evilgrin:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FDetailing%2FStickers%2FROFL.gif&hash=cd2bae532a4573a902a117dd086926100c9368c8)
It obviously happens quite often. She's seen it all before... Many times! and says: "Yes, dear, very interesting".
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I was waving my willy this morning, but the wife told me to put it away and go and get the kettle on. :evilgrin: :evilgrin:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FDetailing%2FStickers%2FROFL.gif&hash=cd2bae532a4573a902a117dd086926100c9368c8)
It obviously happens quite often. She's seen it all before... Many times! and says: "Yes, dear, very interesting".
no, what she really says is " thats strange, it looks like a penis only smaller" or " the postman has one just like that, although its alot bigger"
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I was waving my willy this morning, but the wife told me to put it away and go and get the kettle on. :evilgrin: :evilgrin:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FDetailing%2FStickers%2FROFL.gif&hash=cd2bae532a4573a902a117dd086926100c9368c8)
It obviously happens quite often. She's seen it all before... Many times! and says: "Yes, dear, very interesting".
no, what she really says is " thats strange, it looks like a penis only smaller" or " the postman has one just like that, although its alot bigger"
Now i'm worried, as we have a post lady :laugh:
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For those that didn't go to school http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granularity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granularity) :P
Granularity is the relative size, scale, level of detail, or depth of penetration that characterizes an object or activity. It may help to think of it as: which type of "granule" are we looking at? This term is used in astronomy, photography, physics, linguistics, and fairly often in information technology. It can refer to the level of a hierarchy of objects or actions, to the fineness of detail in a photograph, or to the amount of information that is supplied in describing a person's age. Its meaning is not always immediately clear to those unfamiliar with the context in which it's being used.
Wonder how you would know of a word like that :laugh:
:notworthy:
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PMSL!!! :signLOL:
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Robert74...
I think if you add a HPFP to your car, then you might see a true ~270bhp.
Most people would say S1 to S2 on a K03 doesn't really give u that much. S2+ however is different but not sure how flexible the AMD S2 map is to utilising the HPFP.
id agree with that, going from stage 2 up to stage 2+ felt like a much bigger improvement in comparison to from stage 1 to stage 2.
@ robert Have you ever logged your car to see what the specified rail pressure is. If its like revo and requesting near the full capacity(125-130 bar) then you will see a definite improvement without adjusting the map. if its conservative it would be a waste of time without a stage 2+ map as the standard pump wouldnt be struggling at all
No I have never had the car logged. I have got a Tru Seal air intake but have not fitted it and I have a HPFP on order from a group buy on VAGOC which I will be fitting at some point soon. I am still a bit alarmed though that I quoted 272 on one RR and then 252 on another, its a huge difference.
Thanks for your feedback guys.
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I think a trip to motorscopes rolling road pays dividends, at least you can walk away with a smile on your face :laugh:
....If your point is that going on JKM's DD rollers doesn't pay dividends and you don't walk away smiling, you ought to think again. As has been said countless times and is appreciated by most drivers, it's all about driveability and the plotted curves - Not all about willy waving the highest bhp numbers. It's all relative and a rolling-road session is an opportunity to health-check your car. Several folks were very glad that JKM were able to identify and solve minor problems on their cars and will have driven away smiling.
I agree with Robin it is how the drives more than the RR figures but I think its bad that they can vary so much.
On AMD's RR in June 2010 at a Seat RR day my car at stage 1 with panel filter it was 257 bhp and 274 lb/ft of torque @ 3200 rpm. Others from this forum were there and their results were roughly what they were expecting.
In August 2010 at stage 2 with TBE exhaust and panel filter my car was 272 bhp and 302 lb/ft of torque @ 3900 rpm.
At JKM on Saturday it was back down to 252 bhp and 270 lb/ft of torque.
Does my car have a problem which is why the power is down? It has been away having some bodywork repairs or is it that the AMD results at stage 2 are totally unrealistic?
I am very confused. Could AMD massage their results to suit that much? The car felt so much better after stage 2 that I cannot believe there was not a good power increase.
I have no problem with the quality of the maps but the results don't add up. :confused:
On the August Seatcupra RR day, my car made 489hp. The RR day previous at AMD in feburary I think it was, my car made 410hp. All i'd done is added a bit of octane booster before the run in August, now thts inconsistency if you ask me!
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230bhp, no torque, and misfires. Plot is still in the car so need to scan it in. TBH I knew something wasn't quite right, this is what I made at SRR as well. Previously at SRR she'd made 249bhp. Not sure what the issue is tbh, needs a bit more looking at.
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230bhp, no torque, and misfires. Plot is still in the car so need to scan it in. TBH I knew something wasn't quite right, this is what I made at SRR as well. Previously at SRR she'd made 249bhp. Not sure what the issue is tbh, needs a bit more looking at.
Should have had a chat with me!
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As per Jesse in TFATF, " it's your fuel map bro it's got a nasty hole in it, that's why it's unloading in 4th on the rollers. We'll remove your BF map, switch to Revo and it'll run real nice"
:signLOL:
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Should have had a chat with me!
Ooh, I should've done really. I was just gonna blame software (normally what I do at work anyway :laugh: )
As per Jesse in TFATF, " it's your fuel map bro it's got a nasty whole in it, that's why it's unloading in 4th on the rollers. We'll remove your BF map, switch to Revo and it'll run real nice"
:signLOL:
:signLOL:
...so tempted to get a 7-day REVO trial and see what happens...
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:signLOL:
...so tempted to get a 7-day REVO trial and see what happens...
:confused:
5 or 6 hour trial or 30 day money back guarantee.....
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Ooh, who is it that does the 7-day trial then? I know someone did.
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Ooh, who is it that does the 7-day trial then? I know someone did.
APR??
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*EDIT* Just read on other thread that yours is a Stage 1 Ed30 :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: I'm sorry, but what is it with JKM's rollers and mapped cars? As Chungsters .:R was making about the same as a Stage 1 Ed30 with the same engine!!! How is this at all possible? If it is, then there are an awful lot of people on this forum waving there willys in the air after thinking their gain of 5bhp on their cars from a Stage 1 map is out of this world :surprised:
Are they all wrong?
Glad I couldn't make it now TBH, as I would of only left there, having driven all that way, p*ssed off after probably being told me car was less than 300 bhp.. :stupid:
Rant over..
thinking about it, a stage 1 ed30 shouldn't make the same as an S3 stage 1. Whilst they might share the same engine, the S3 has the added benefit of the bigger intercooler, so the tuners can add more timing advances to yield more Hp without the issue of timing pull and knock. So the S3/cupra R etc should be better in theory
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On Stage 1 the difference would be very minimal IMO mate..