MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: rdfcpete on October 18, 2010, 02:02:42 pm
-
Fitted my Carbonio yesterday, all is well.
I had previously fitted an ITG panel filter which was run with my OEM air intake box and the PF is still on the vehicle.
The only change I was expecting was a much more vibrant exhaust note at higher revs, yet the engine sound or note doesn't seem to have changed at all guys - is that normal? Will an ITG PF not achieve this? Is it simply because I'm not running an aftermarket exhaust?
If I'll need a Pipercross, K&N or CarbonSpeed PF to achieve this, then I simply need that confirming please :smiley: I must admit I expected a sound similar to the old Simota air boxes as I've been informed the CS Carbonio gave a comparable sound?
(Something that had hints of this sound to it would've been my aim &feature=related ** I know he has a Milltek, is that perhaps the soul reason it sounds that good? :smiley: )
Thanks,
Pete.
-
no additional sound from any panel filter inc the carbonio Im afraid.
sound is muffled by the tortuous route through the engine cover.
only way to get true induction noise would be to replace cover with something like VWR Twintake / ITG Maxogen etc
as a rule if it keeps the cover it will be quiet :happy2:
-
Thanks John.
As you can gauge, I'm not experienced in the engine tuning dept :chicken:
I think this one will go into the FS section. I bought it simply for the sound gains really, ooppss :laugh: Ta!
-
no additional sound from any panel filter inc the carbonio Im afraid.
sound is muffled by the tortuous route through the engine cover.
only way to get true induction noise would be to replace cover with something like VWR Twintake / ITG Maxogen etc
as a rule if it keeps the cover it will be quiet :happy2:
John, out of interest, would an induction kit give me the sound I'm looking for?
Does it have to be a bit of kit (either intake or indt/kit) that avoids the engine piping around the engine cover?
Thanks.
-
have a look at the ITG Maxogen / Forge Twintake.
Both replace the engine cover entirely.
Yes, to get any decent sound the cover needs to go.
Air is routed through it (theres a flat filter in there) and onto the intake (on the left hand side rear as you look at the engine bay), quite , well packaged (as its a cover AND a filter casing) but also restrictive.
What youve replace with the carbonio is just the bit that feeds air into the engine cover....
Its not quite the same as an induction kit you would fit to other cars, which tend to bolt onto the ManifoldAirFlow sensor housing directly.
On the golf the MAF is also bolted into the engine cover too.
well worth having the cover off if youre diy inclined just to get a feel for whats exactly in the cover :happy2:
-
have a look at the ITG Maxogen / Forge Twintake.
Both replace the engine cover entirely.
Yes, to get any decent sound the cover needs to go.
Air is routed through it (theres a flat filter in there) and onto the intake (on the left hand side rear as you look at the engine bay), quite , well packaged (as its a cover AND a filter casing) but also restrictive.
What youve replace with the carbonio is just the bit that feeds air into the engine cover....
Its not quite the same as an induction kit you would fit to other cars, which tend to bolt onto the ManifoldAirFlow sensor housing directly.
On the golf the MAF is also bolted into the engine cover too.
well worth having the cover off if youre diy inclined just to get a feel for whats exactly in the cover :happy2:
... Not really :grin:
Ok, that's cool. Furthered my understanding, thanks.
I've heard good things and seen supporting videos that the K&N typhoon Ind. kit gives good results. I assume this functions in the same way as the TwinTake and Maxogen kits without seeing it's setup?
-
I would err away from that kit tbh, it needs to be shielded from the hot engine air properly and isnt as good as the two I mentioned imho.
but by all means do the research first :happy2:
twintake Id go for (based on what I know at the moment)
oh and Im no authority on this, Im sure others have different views dont just take my word for it :grin:
-
if your on a budget have a look at the bsh Intake. if not then the Evoms/ITG and twintake will all be perfect for what you need.
-
^ Thanks Janner. I did indeed check out the BSH, seems a good deal.
One further query I have is do all of these aftermarket intakes make a 'woosh' sound as the revs are dropped after the gas is applied? That's kinna annoying and most of the vids I've seen for various intakes have it.
Is that simply the DV or the way the air sounds when it's not drawing as much through the intakes? Perhaps it's just the videos I watched...
Mine doesn't do it currently (stock barring an ITG PF) and all I'm looking for is a slightly more aggressive sound as the revs increase, that classic vroom sound (like the Simota box I linked up top ^) no further changes :happy2:
-
.
As already posted by others, I'd confirm that the Carbonio adds nothing to the sound. It just improves efficiency which very slightly improves torque and response.
Apart from budget constraints, every aftermarket intake will sound slightly different on every single car unless those cars are in exactly the same state of mods. Also, as human individuals we each hear sounds slightly differently (just like colour too - My car isn't pink, I see it as red :grin:).
As a rough guide, Evoms sounds like a Hyena laughing, ITG is the loudest, Twintake something inbetween. The type of sound can be influenced by how you use your right foot.
-
.
As already posted by others, I'd confirm that the Carbonio adds nothing to the sound. It just improves efficiency which very slightly improves torque and response.
Apart from budget constraints, every aftermarket intake will sound slightly different on every single car unless those cars are in exactly the same state of mods. Also, as human individuals we each hear sounds slightly differently (just like colour too - My car isn't pink, I see it as red :grin:).
As a rough guide, Evoms sounds like a Hyena laughing, ITG is the loudest, Twintake something inbetween. The type of sound can be influenced by how you use your right foot.
That's the sound I'm not massively keen on, sounds unnatural as the revs decrease. Some may love it, but as mentioned I just want a harsher sound when giving it beans. Sounds naughttty on a straight 4 turbo without being too Scooby or Essex Modder :party:
Do the BSH and Neuspeed intakes for example generically have the Hyena laugh?
-
Do the BSH and Neuspeed intakes for example generically have the Hyena laugh?
....I have no experience of them to be able to tell you. Logically, all three are open filter-on-a-pipe types and therefore might transmit very similar sounds.
-
Ive heard the BSH, Twintake, EVOMs and had the ITG myself.
if your after quiet i think you need the twintake. It really surprised me how quiet it was. i thought with two filters you would here it sounding off, but its by far the most quiet intake ive heard.
The ITG isnt that bad either tbh, its only if you are booting it that you here it, it does also gives a much throatier sound from the engine.
-
if your after quiet i think you need the twintake. It really surprised me how quiet it was. i thought with two filters you would here it sounding off, but its by far the most quiet intake ive heard.
....I'm surprised you think that. The Twintake may be quieter than some of the others but it certainly isn't quiet. It is quite subtle but if you accelerate and then really quickly step off the throttle it makes a loud whipping sound accompanied by a nice flutter. Otherwise you just hear a sound like heavy breathing - Slightly Darth Varda.
-
RR - you may be able to advise here please, not to worry if not :smiley: -
After my ignorance regarding the MAF, Carbonio influence and the engine cover, I'm looking simply for an intake that will enhance the sound on rev increase (like the old Simota boxes + filters used to) but with minimal or no flutter. I'm not a big fan of that sound. I realise with the 2.0T setup it may not be feasible to find one without a flutter, but what's got the least noticeable of the lot?
Gains aren't important tbh. This is simply to take away the mild breathless OEM sound at higher revs so its for audible gains only :happy2:
Thanks.
-
RR - you may be able to advise here please, not to worry if not :smiley: -
After my ignorance regarding the MAF, Carbonio influence and the engine cover, I'm looking simply for an intake that will enhance the sound on rev increase (like the old Simota boxes + filters used to) but with minimal or no flutter. I'm not a big fan of that sound. I realise with the 2.0T setup it may not be feasible to find one without a flutter, but what's got the least noticeable of the lot?
Gains aren't important tbh. This is simply to take away the mild breathless OEM sound at higher revs so its for audible gains only :happy2:
Thanks.
....Apart from stock, the least noticeable sound of all those I've heard is the Carbonio. But the Carbonio also gives the least performance gains. There's no getting away from noises which any filter-on-a-pipe will produce - The pipe works as an amplifier.
One problem is that every car sounds a little different due to its individual mods. For example, having aftermarket engine mounts transfers a lot of engine bay sounds to the cabin.
What sounds you like or dislike is very subjective. All you can do is hear as many intakes as you can and choose from there. I'd love to be able to help you more but I can't.
-
to suit your specific needs for noise (but not performance) you could consider modifying the original engine cover to take some additional tubing (only on the non filtered side of course!)
I did think about you drilling holes in the cover (non filtered side) but that would just suck in hot air which you dont want, so you need tubing which you can route to somewhere with cold air feeding to it
-
john,
id say the twintake is what you want, Ive not heard it on the move however when RR rev ved his @ the JKM rolling road day with bonnet open, id honestly say that is quiter than all the others ive heard which includes the neuspeed P-flow, Evoms, ITG maxogen, and BSH trueseal.
I like understated and probably wouldnt buy the ITG again as its to noisy, same a si would never go for a performance cat back again as it just created more noise with no performance gain.
I would however buy the twintake, deeper note, yet restrained and not chavish with big performance gains.
I agree with RR thoug. the carbonio made absolutely minimal noise and performance gains. waste of my money IMO
-
RR - you may be able to advise here please, not to worry if not :smiley: -
After my ignorance regarding the MAF, Carbonio influence and the engine cover, I'm looking simply for an intake that will enhance the sound on rev increase (like the old Simota boxes + filters used to) but with minimal or no flutter. I'm not a big fan of that sound. I realise with the 2.0T setup it may not be feasible to find one without a flutter, but what's got the least noticeable of the lot?
Gains aren't important tbh. This is simply to take away the mild breathless OEM sound at higher revs so its for audible gains only :happy2:
Thanks.
....Apart from stock, the least noticeable sound of all those I've heard is the Carbonio. But the Carbonio also gives the least performance gains. There's no getting away from noises which any filter-on-a-pipe will produce - The pipe works as an amplifier.
One problem is that every car sounds a little different due to its individual mods. For example, having aftermarket engine mounts transfers a lot of engine bay sounds to the cabin.
What sounds you like or dislike is very subjective. All you can do is hear as many intakes as you can and choose from there. I'd love to be able to help you more but I can't.
Yeah, I acknowledge it has no sound enhancement at all. This is why I'm now looking to get rid and look for a unit that does :smiley:
Yep, also appreciated every car will be unique and slightly different. Mine has absolutely no engine mods barring an ITG PF and now the Carbonio, so it should be very stock' sounding.
I simply want to enhance the sound when the revs in increase, not fussed about the down-rev when you release the gas. I know on most filters you can't hear the 'flutter' unless the bonnet is wide open and you're stationary anyway. That would suit me.
For budgets sake, it looks like the Neuspeed P-Flo atm. I've also scouted youtube to hear the different sounds.
to suit your specific needs for noise (but not performance) you could consider modifying the original engine cover to take some additional tubing (only on the non filtered side of course!)
I did think about you drilling holes in the cover (non filtered side) but that would just suck in hot air which you dont want, so you need tubing which you can route to somewhere with cold air feeding to it
Hot air doesn't sound good :grin: Cheers John.
I don't really want to 'bodge' the OEM setup, just fit something A/market that has a nice sound on acceleration.
I think the twintake is overkill in terms of budget and performance for what I'm looking for, although I appreciate it's qualities at the same time.
I've checked out the Maxogen CAI too but that seems £350+ everywhere.
-
what about the backdraft motorsport intake group buy
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,21023.0.html (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,21023.0.html)
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,20724.0.html (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,20724.0.html)
-
^^^^
And take it a step further and investigate enclosing the filter to reduce the noise.
There are filter casings you can buy separately on the market.
-
Enclosing the filter reduces the sucking noises greatly.
The P flow is one of the noisiest intakes i have heard. I used to have one and ended up putting it into an airbox to keep the noise levels down.
This worked a treat.
I now have a BSH trueseal and its the quietest i have heard at low revs as its enclosed in an airbox. At high revs it gives a nice growl too.
-
lets have a pic please :happy2:
-
Neuspeed filter and 1.6 airbox to keep things quiet
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fww123%2Fjon-tfsi%2FIMGP3085.jpg&hash=a021fb891a3f3e316c9f00da7ae08f2b58d7b412)
Intalled with Original airbox cut down . . . . yes there is a P-Flow hiding under there :grin:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fww123%2Fjon-tfsi%2FIMGP3073.jpg&hash=7245543202ffe56b206b7fcd98a0dc671c21aaa4)
-
presumably there is air feed supplying the air box?
-
rdfcpete,
If you are any where near Lincolnshire and want to hear a P-Flo first hand, then let me know.
-
rdfcpete,
If you are any where near Lincolnshire and want to hear a P-Flo first hand, then let me know.
Thanks fella.
I'm in Northants though unfortunately.
What I'd basically like is a CAI that sounds like the simota in my first post. It's an aggressive yet smooth sound on rev increase and on down revs there's no extra flutters or wooshs.
I think with the k03 setup its probably not possible to replicate a Renault 2.0 N/A sound with A/mkt mods.
After trawling youtube it seems only the bsh or the evoms are close sound wise. This can wait till I stage 1 anyway so thinking time is banked :smiley:
-
presumably there is air feed supplying the air box?
Aye from both ends of the airbox :wink:
Intakes do sound different in the cabin to how they will with the bonet open on a youtube vid or on a rolling road.
Especially the BSH as when the bonnet is shut, the bonnet lining forms the top of the airbox and keeps noise levels greatly reduced.
I personally dont like all the noise at low revs and the let -off sounds either.
There are lots of intakes to choose from so if you have the time, do your homework :happy2:
-
Just a thought but this would deffinately get you the sound your after RDFCPETE
The facelift Leon Cupra sounds glorious thanks to a sound pipe from the engine bay to the bulkhead/cabin. Very much like an N/A v6 with a cone filter.
If you have the time to take one out for a testdrive i would highly reccomend it.
Im sure this pipe could be retrofitted and would cost a lot less than an intake.
I have only heard from other people that its a sound pipe creating this noise, and have never managed to find it when looking under the bonnet, but it must be as the intake is the same crappy design as the GTI and the standard exhaust note is very bleak. But the engine note heard in the cabin is dreamy. Its just an idea but probably worth some thought if it will give you the noise you are looking for??
-
Just a thought but this would deffinately get you the sound your after RDFCPETE
The facelift Leon Cupra sounds glorious thanks to a sound pipe from the engine bay to the bulkhead/cabin. Very much like an N/A v6 with a cone filter.
If you have the time to take one out for a testdrive i would highly reccomend it.
Im sure this pipe could be retrofitted and would cost a lot less than an intake.
I have only heard from other people that its a sound pipe creating this noise, and have never managed to find it when looking under the bonnet, but it must be as the intake is the same crappy design as the GTI and the standard exhaust note is very bleak. But the engine note heard in the cabin is dreamy. Its just an idea but probably worth some thought if it will give you the noise you are looking for??
Cheers Jon, although would that only enhance the cabin sound?
I want it to sound better in the outside world too :wink:
-
rdfcpete,
If you are any where near Lincolnshire and want to hear a P-Flo first hand, then let me know.
Thanks fella.
I'm in Northants though unfortunately.
What I'd basically like is a CAI that sounds like the simota in my first post. It's an aggressive yet smooth sound on rev increase and on down revs there's no extra flutters or wooshs.
I think with the k03 setup its probably not possible to replicate a Renault 2.0 N/A sound with A/mkt mods.
After trawling youtube it seems only the bsh or the evoms are close sound wise. This can wait till I stage 1 anyway so thinking time is banked :smiley:
Unfortunately, you will struggle to find an induction kit that doesn't flutter or woosh when you lift off on the TFSi engine.
The P-Flo does keep you informed that one end is attached the turbo :smiley:. I don't think it's loud if driven sensible, but if driven hard it does become loud, mainly the woosh noise when lifting off and changing gear ect. If your car is mapped the wooshing is louder than unmapped.