MK5 Golf GTI
General => Product Reviews => Topic started by: Greeners on February 15, 2009, 09:05:07 pm
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Why
Fill those arches and give the car a more aggressive stance/appearance.
Obtain clearance for big brake kits.
Sourcing
Our very own Wheelman (Ben)
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=320.0
Please pm Ben for costs
Fitting
Easy:
Take your wheel off, put the spacer in place over the hub and refit the wheel with the longer bolts (supplied).
Usefull guide to see what size of spacer you need:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FGreenouse%2FSpacers%2Fhowtocheck.jpg&hash=6baef75c4e99e3f77567bbaf459c6f9d7832f01a)
Other versions
10mm right up to 90mm :surprised:
Plus Points
Gives the car a much better 'stance' and a wider track.
Easier access to the inner part of the wheel for cleaning :happy2:
Minus Points
If you are lowered you may scrape the inner arch liner or wheel arch. Im lowered on Eibach Sportlines with 18'' wheels and have had no rubbing/scraping issues so far.
Summary
Some before and afters:
Before:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FGreenouse%2FSpacers%2Fwithout1.jpg&hash=e87543d6df741a78408f52528e2d5dd801f2c867)
After:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FGreenouse%2FSpacers%2Fwith1.jpg&hash=ad452043c906bce3cc9ed79b289c1de6633bd9f1)
Before:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FGreenouse%2FSpacers%2Fwithout2.jpg&hash=e944897be5a9a087e9fe99c49ae82c9d0f308db1)
After:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FGreenouse%2FSpacers%2Fwith2.jpg&hash=2a21718aef458a2853352a38c442be28c815eff7)
Before:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FGreenouse%2FSpacers%2Fwithout3.jpg&hash=9759487de76c27f0f06434d6f92cba11c8685dc2)
After:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FGreenouse%2FSpacers%2Fwith4.jpg&hash=f9fb0a2aa864049076454bf8c3ccae6a1597db6f)
Spacer in place:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FGreenouse%2FSpacers%2FP2080076.jpg&hash=9680daf991c44bb2813f30c097e870a2c0661587)
'Stance' Pics:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FGreenouse%2FSpacers%2FP2150003.jpg&hash=5b5d29a934357c3970e7908a080272c353d1cb6e)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FGreenouse%2FSpacers%2FP2150006.jpg&hash=33344be4c13f9ad6264da7e809b9d7e6b6c739c0)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FGreenouse%2FSpacers%2FP2150009.jpg&hash=6b0ccc7c629474e5b0e25d0ad91f43c7e8b7b878)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FGreenouse%2FSpacers%2FP2150008.jpg&hash=639e0dfa63cbdd25214be910167f2fa31d953e9f)
Overall Im really pleased with the results. They have transformed the look of the car and I can't stop looking at her! It seems to make the arches look more aggresive and the wider lower appearance looks great!
One of my favourite mods so far :happy2:
And a big thanks to Ben for his assistance :happy2:
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Looking good there fella :happy2:
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i was lucky enough to see this mod on this very car on Saturday, and have to say it looks millimetre perfect and realise now that it is a very important mod to get the look just right.
I went down to Naths to pick my own car up after not seeing it for 2 weeks, and all i could do was look at his. (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftomashandmilly%2FDaft_stuff%2Fcool-1.png&hash=14b5117543fe071174719f8d0305fd0777bf5b38)
Good write up as well Nath. :drinking:
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Cheers Cat Man :happy2:
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Nice write up Nathan! I've been looking into these too, but I can't decide whether I need 10cm on the back or 12cm? I don't want to buy 10cm and then think that I need more! Do you think that 10cm is the right amount? Does it fill the arches adequately? I want the wheel to be at the same level as the arch, nothing less - if that makes any sense! :smiley: :smiley:
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I don't think 10cm will fit buddy :signLOL:
To be honest I think 10mm is enough without giving you any potential rubbing issues and it gives the car such a different look! Go for it, it's a no brainer for the money :happy2:
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^^ HAHAHAHA!!!!! cm?!?!!??! Idiot Chris!!!!
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^^ HAHAHAHA!!!!! cm?!?!!??! Idiot Chris!!!!
:signLOL:
TC was looking at the rear yesterday and I think we both agreed we wouldn't risk any more :wink:
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^^ HAHAHAHA!!!!! cm?!?!!??! Idiot Chris!!!!
:signLOL:
TC was looking at the rear yesterday and I think we both agreed we wouldn't risk any more :wink:
Chris you say if you fit the 10 mil and then may regret not going for the 12mil.
Measure out 2 mil with your fingers then you will realise its not going to make a difference either way. :drinking:
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True Tom, but 10mm doesn't even seem a lot to me, and yet it makes a decent difference - hence why I am not ruling out 12mm because I think it still may alter the way it looks. I can only go by those who have had spacers fitted and their viewpoints on it. The general consensus is that 10mm is fine for the MK5. I think there are only a couple on here that have gone bigger than 10mm.
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In my opinion you could go up to 15 on the back and just about get away with it, but i would go know more than 10 on the front you will get rubbage on things like adverse cambers and such like. :smiley:
As i mentioned earlier Nathan's looks millimetre perfect front and back. :drinking:
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Thanks for that Tom, appreciate your opinion :smiley: :smiley: :happy2:
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nice writeup my good man, I reckon I could be placing an order very soon based on this :happy2:
is that a mark on your rear bumper :surprised: :grin:
small question -
If I get a puncture, do I need to keep the short std bolts for that or can I use the longer ones?
Or am I forced to re-add the spacer with the space saver?
Oh and are they a pain to align when fitting ? as its bolts and not studs?
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Interesting, are you using the standard locking wheel bolts with the spacers?
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Interesting, are you using the standard locking wheel bolts with the spacers?
I can answer that for him while he is getting ZZzzz's :indifferent:
Mr Wheelman supplied him with a new set. :smiley:
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nice writeup my good man, I reckon I could be placing an order very soon based on this :happy2:
is that a mark on your rear bumper :surprised: :grin:
small question -
If I get a puncture, do I need to keep the short std bolts for that or can I use the longer ones?
Or am I forced to re-add the spacer with the space saver?
Oh and are they a pain to align when fitting ? as its bolts and not studs?
Praise indeed from the 'write up' King! :happy2:
And no of course it isn't a mark on my rear bumper :surprised:
Re your questions regarding the fitting it was easy as the spacer fits snuggly over the ring on the disc and it holds itself in place while you position the wheel :happy2:
As for having a puncture, I hadn't actually thought of that and will wait for the Wheelman to answer that question for you! :wink:
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Looking good Nathan.
Cars a bit dusty though...........................
:signLOL: :signLOL: :signLOL:
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Carry 5 of your old bolts in the boot to put the steel on with, don't bother messing about trying to refit the spacer as it'll more often than not wedge itself in the wheel's spigot anyway.
Looks lovely BTW.
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how much extra is it for the locking wheelsnuts greenhouse?
This is my next mod :happy2:
Looking at your wheels now makes me want to do mine in gloss black :laugh:
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how much extra is it for the locking wheelsnuts greenhouse?
This is my next mod :happy2:
Looking at your wheels now makes me want to do mine in gloss black :laugh:
Im not sure Luca? Best to PM the Wheelman :happy2:
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Excellent write-up, Nathan :happy2:
However, I'm still not convinced. My main hesitation is because, IIRC, AP Racing's Senior Race Engineer strongly advised me against using wheel spacers with my AP Big Brake Kit. More recently I wouldn't want to do anything to interfere with my VWR-KW-V3 suspension setup.
As I see it, you are rightly substituting with longer bolts but you are subjecting them to greater loads/forces.
I stand to be corrected.
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Moreover, you subject the Hubs and subsequently wheel bearings to greater loadings, due to the longer lever distance.
Although i think 10mm will not make too much difference.
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Moreover, you subject the Hubs and subsequently wheel bearings to greater loadings, due to the longer lever distance.
Although i think 10mm will not make too much difference.
....Ah! Thanks! Now I remember - Hubs and wheel bearings were mentioned.
I can see how 10mm may not make much difference, BUT.......I'm more cautious than some on here and prefer to mod my car as if I was going to keep her forever. Can I take her to Heaven with me? Oh, hang on, I'm already in Heaven!
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If the wheel bearings wear out I'll replace them. Not really a biggy for me Robin :wink:
But I do appreaciate your input as this thread is all about people deciding whether this mod is right for them or not. :happy2:
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If the wheel bearings wear out I'll replace them. Not really a biggy for me Robin :wink:
....Which makes me curious about how cheap or expensive that would be to replace them. What would be the first signs of needing replacement?
But I do appreaciate your input as this thread is all about people deciding whether this mod is right for them or not. :happy2:
....I'm glad you said that because I sometimes worry that others might think I'm just being a killjoy or an over 60yo git when I question the wisdom of things like spacers and lowering when only done for 'the look'. In truth all I'm trying to do is offer/add my opinion based on what I know and believe to be true at the time - Which is all any of us can ever do!
[cue for TC to post that peeps think I'm a git anyway!]
So, I appreciate you appreciating that I appreciate you appreciating etc etc :grin:
:happy2:
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If the wheel bearings wear out I'll replace them. Not really a biggy for me Robin :wink:
....Which makes me curious about how cheap or expensive that would be to replace them. What would be the first signs of needing replacement?
But I do appreaciate your input as this thread is all about people deciding whether this mod is right for them or not. :happy2:
....I'm glad you said that because I sometimes worry that others might think I'm just being a killjoy or an over 60yo git when I question the wisdom of things like spacers and lowering when only done for 'the look'. In truth all I'm trying to do is offer/add my opinion based on what I know and believe to be true at the time - Which is all any of us can ever do!
[cue for TC to post that peeps think I'm a git anyway!]
So, I appreciate you appreciating that I appreciate you appreciating etc etc :grin:
:happy2:
You would begin to hear a humming/whining from the offending wheel! :wink:
P.S. I Appreciate that :happy2: :laugh:
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My personal experience with all round wheel spacers (though not with a gti I hasten to add) resulted in the rear hub/axle breaking on one side leading to the car overturning whilst travelling in a straight line.
I will not be going down that route again...
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsayhey.files.wordpress.com%2F2007%2F05%2Fchoke.jpg&hash=adcb3ebf09f0da108a5148b08c8bdb6d42321586)
sh1t the bed! sorry to hear that!
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My personal experience with all round wheel spacers (though not with a gti I hasten to add) resulted in the rear hub/axle breaking on one side leading to the car overturning whilst travelling in a straight line.
I will not be going down that route again...
Wouldn't have thought it was only 10mm either?
PMSL @ that pic Jay :signLOL:
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You'd be surprised at how much 10mm can upset the factory geometry and loading of the hub and more notably the bearings, particularly the way the are loaded radially.
With suspension, even the smallest of changes can be exaggerated elsewhere - camber is only measured in single degrees, which again seems a trivial measurement on a small scale, but can make an enormous difference by the time it's multiplied through the height of the wheel.
Elementary physics says that as you move the load away from the fulcrum, the force increases - a lever. By using a spacer you are basically changing the offset of the wheel, multiplying the forces on the hub by moving the wheel further away from it. The result is increased loading on the bearing and accelerated wear and ultimately - failure.
Obviously, the size of the spacer can make a difference but don't under estimate the difference 10mm can make. Also, when making a modification like this that is easy to do your self, be sure to get an alignment check afterwards.
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Although I agree with the comments about a spacer increasing the load on the bearings, lets not forget that ANY change in this area can do exactly the same... How many on here have aftermarket wheels that are not 7.5" wide with a ET51 offset??
Same goes for lowering the car, changes the geometry of the wheels for all driving situations.
Like other modifications, there can be downsides (mapping for example can cause premature failure of the DV) what we all need to remember is that situations like Bacillus' are in the extreme........
Rant over :laugh:
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Same goes for lowering the car, changes the geometry of the wheels for all driving situations.
....Hence why I was particular who I chose to do my suspension installation and setup.
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Although I agree with the comments about a spacer increasing the load on the bearings, lets not forget that ANY change in this area can do exactly the same... How many on here have aftermarket wheels that are not 7.5" wide with a ET51 offset??
Same goes for lowering the car, changes the geometry of the wheels for all driving situations.
Like other modifications, there can be downsides (mapping for example can cause premature failure of the DV) what we all need to remember is that situations like Bacillus' are in the extreme........
Rant over :laugh:
Good point.
:happy2:
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Porsche offer spacers as an optional extra...so does that mean that they engineer the parts at the beginning to be able to cope with the extra load that the spacers might cause...?
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Porsche offer spacers as an optional extra...so does that mean that they engineer the parts at the beginning to be able to cope with the extra load that the spacers might cause...?
....That's an extremely good point!
Does this 'spacer option' include any other modifications? To suspension bushes for example?
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Possibly, or it just comes with a disclaimer saying that it will shorten the life of bearings and bushes etc. Not forgetting that they are likely to be higher spec items in the first place.
I'm not sure where I stand with spacers, i think the amount of impact they actually have in real world driving depends on who you talk to. I've always been told to avoid them, but provided you don't go mad - I can't see them really killing your bearing much quicker than normal? It's something I'd definitely have to try for myself to weigh up whether the extra wear and tear was really worth the improvement in handling, if any, by widening the track by 1cm (each side or in total?)
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running a 10mm spacer is just like running a ET41 offset wheel, nobody kicks off when people do that :happy2:
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running a 10mm spacer is just like running a ET41 offset wheel, nobody kicks off when people do that :happy2:
....No, nobody kicks off, but it doesn't make it a wise thing to do. It's early days for seeing such problems anyway.
I'm just being very cautious (I like the look) and exploring the subject with my Devil's Advocate hat on :evilgrin:
:happy2:
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running a 10mm spacer is just like running a ET41 offset wheel, nobody kicks off when people do that :happy2:
....No, nobody kicks off, but it doesn't make it a wise thing to do. It's early days for seeing such problems anyway.
I'm just being very cautious (I like the look) and exploring the subject with my Devil's Advocate hat on :evilgrin:
:happy2:
Not to sure where your going with this one Red leader. :confused: It may be early days to see what effects your engine mods will have long term, but people have been fitting spacers and different wheels since time began, I am not to sure what you are worried about going wrong. I have seen no cases of wheels flying down the road, and if its a bit of premature wear on the bearings, well thats not the end of the world. :smiley:
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i ve had my spacers fitted a while now, they dont alter the handling in any way whatsoever i brought them purely because imo they improve the look (stance) of the car ! :happy2:
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running a 10mm spacer is just like running a ET41 offset wheel, nobody kicks off when people do that :happy2:
....No, nobody kicks off, but it doesn't make it a wise thing to do. It's early days for seeing such problems anyway.
I'm just being very cautious (I like the look) and exploring the subject with my Devil's Advocate hat on :evilgrin:
:happy2:
Not to sure where your going with this one Red leader. :confused: It may be early days to see what effects your engine mods will have long term, but people have been fitting spacers and different wheels since time began, I am not to sure what you are worried about going wrong. I have seen no cases of wheels flying down the road, and if its a bit of premature wear on the bearings, well thats not the end of the world. :smiley:
....I'm not sure where I'm going on this one either!! :grin:
Just being extremely cautious mainly because a few people whose very experienced opinions I greatly respect have advised against it. Plus a couple of posts here.
It's natural that if you've done a mod (and that includes me), then you have made a decision which you think has no problems.
For me the jury is still out but I do like the look :happy2:
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do you think you would actually feel any difference with the spacers?
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do you think you would actually feel any difference with the spacers?
you most definatly can not feel any difference with them on , some one on another thread said "i must love understeer if i fit these spacers " thats like saying my car will be noticable quicker if i leave the back seats at home !!!!!!
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^^^^
It's called The Placebo Effect :evilgrin:
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will be getting a set of these for my front wheels.. after having brakes fitted yesterday which needed 8mm spacers to fit the wheel they only had cheapo spacers in stock and I needed my car back that day.
driving over 60mph there was vibration in the steering wheel and if felt like the car was wobbling :scared:
hubcentric spacers i have been told will end this, fingers crossed, but min size is 10mm but willing to go a further 2mm to improve it!
so whatever you do make sure you buy hubcentric one's for the front and not the halford specials as they will ruin the ride of you car.
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They look great however as a few people have said they arent a good thing to have on a poor, increased wheel vibration and poorer turn in arent what i want.
And its not the same as having a different offset either, if you think about it your adding a third piece which allows for greater movement which isnt good.
The bottom line is spacers look good but they ARE a step back in the cars performance.
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I haven't experienced anything you have mentioned.
No vibrations and turn in is as crisp as ever. Your welcome to a drive anytime :happy2:
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They look great however as a few people have said they arent a good thing to have on a poor, increased wheel vibration and poorer turn in arent what i want.
And its not the same as having a different offset either, if you think about it your adding a third piece which allows for greater movement which isnt good.
The bottom line is spacers look good but they ARE a step back in the cars performance.
movement? not sure there will be any movement, not unless you don't do the wheel bolts up :smiley:
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The bottom line is spacers look good but they ARE a step back in the cars performance.
really? they increase the width of the wheel base?
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They look great however as a few people have said they arent a good thing to have on a poor, increased wheel vibration and poorer turn in arent what i want.
And its not the same as having a different offset either, if you think about it your adding a third piece which allows for greater movement which isnt good.
The bottom line is spacers look good but they ARE a step back in the cars performance.
Its exactly the same as changing the offset. The wheels woulddnt move if the bolts are correctly torqued up.
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it isnt as you have the spacer in between the wheel which has all the force applied to it, you may not feel it and we are only talking small amounts but if i had a choice i wouldnt use them.
Ask any engineer and they would agree, by putting a spacer inbetween you WILL get some play.
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I am an engineer, I don't think there will be any movement with hubcentric spacers, they lock-in on the spigot ring on the hub and in the wheel, when the wheels bolts are tight there will be no movement in IMO of course :smiley:
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i noticed wheel vibrations on previous cars with spacers and a few other people commented when removing turn in was much sharper.
Anyways thats just my 2p's worth :smiley:
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in my experience the spacers exaggerate any inbalance that may have been there already to a point where you can feel it, this can be sorted if you balance the wheels and spacer as an assembly and mark the position for refitting to the car :happy2:
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Fitted the 10mm hubcentric spacers i got of wheelman this mo to replace the 8mm non-hub ones I had put on to fit the bbk's.
The non-hub 8mm were causing wobblig and vibrations in the wheel when going over 60mph and the ride was terrible.
The new ones fitted really well, slot into place nicely and the difference between the two is night and day, quality wise and way they connect the hub and the wheel with the spigots.
Been out for a quick spin straight after they were done and problem solved ride is back to normal, :jumpmove:
Thanks ben, top product :happy2:
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Glad you got it sorted :happy2:
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think of fitting these to the back. want the wiiiiiide look
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think of fitting these to the back. want the wiiiiiide look
There a no brainer for the money Joe :wink: Go for it!
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am i right in saying the wheel bolts are 10mm longer than stock? if so i would need to buy a longer set of mcguards locking wheel bolts also?
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am i right in saying the wheel bolts are 10mm longer than stock? if so i would need to buy a longer set of mcguards locking wheel bolts also?
Yes and yes. My spacers came with longer bolts and lockers! :wink:
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The bottom line is spacers look good but they ARE a step back in the cars performance.
really? they increase the width of the wheel base?
You meant to say increase the width of the axle track! :P