MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: parks on November 21, 2010, 09:54:13 am
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Just read a few things about the R and thought it said that the engine was from the mk5 rather than mk6? Surely the mk6 would be newer and 'better'?
Any reason for this?
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Just read a few things about the R and thought it said that the engine was from the mk5 rather than mk6? Surely the mk6 would be newer and 'better'?
Any reason for this?
its the engine from the Edition 30 (audi s3, cupra), or at least a version of it, its not from the normal MK5 GTi, the reason i guess is more powerful and no new development needed etc etc for a small run model
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no. the mk6 gti is 207ps and only tunes to around 280-290hp. there is no k04 varient as of yet.
the Golf R has the engine from the mk5 ed30(not std GTI). its more accurate really to say itas the S3 engine though as it comes with the S3 uprated intercooler as standard. these engines are tunable to 350-360Hp, so whilst the TSI is the newer its not quite better yet.
Although i hear the TSI takes to a K04 turbo very very well
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Doesnt have the intercooler from the S3, at least TEFFs didnt. It is more like an ED30 engine
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Not S3 in terms of no Alloy end tanks, but had it confirmed this week inlet/outlet sizes are 63mm vs the 50mm of the standard GTI version.
:happy2:
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Doesnt have the intercooler from the S3, at least TEFFs didnt. It is more like an ED30 engine
Actually if the Golf R has the same intercooler as the Rocco R then it has a different version to the Mk5 and the Audi S3 (as it has bigger Inlets and outlets).
(info from Chungster's R build)
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LOL, beat me to it Chungster :laugh:
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Not S3 in terms of no Alloy end tanks, but had it confirmed this week inlet/outlet sizes are 63mm vs the 50mm of the standard GTI version.
:happy2:
Do you have the original one still ?
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At least VW are not lazy and do differ each engine :smiley:
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i stand corrrected. is it the same core size as the S3 then?
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Would have thought they'd put a KO4 onto the mk6 lump, best of both worlds no?
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Would have thought they'd put a KO4 onto the mk6 lump, best of both worlds no?
now I'm no expert but I'm guessing it's all about cost, the edition 30 /s3 engine is developed and in production, they would need to throw lots of development and cash at the MK6 motor to have it running the K04
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There are kits in the US to convert the ihi turbo to a k04 one so it can't be that difficult.
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There are kits in the US to convert the ihi turbo to a k04 one so it can't be that difficult.
That's aftermarket though, you can do anything you like after it's left the factory, VW can't just bolt in a K04 and hope for the best, there must be other things they need to consider like emissions etc etc
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tbh, the k04 TFSI is a solid strong exccellent engine. no need to change it IMO. the TSI engine only really improved on the k03 TFSI IMO
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Do you have the original one still ?
yup it's still on the car. :smiley:
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Do you have the original one still ?
yup it's still on the car. :smiley:
??? How come
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lol cos 2 is better than 1 :wink:
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EA888 (MkVI) is cheaper and easier (read: quicker) to build. There's been some debate as to whether it's stronger or not. On paper, the block (a different grade of cast iron) is supposed to be a better design and is stronger (boost friendly) whilst being lighter. However, I've been told by of a friend on the 'inside' that the tolerances are much lower and it's not as 'over-engineered' as its predecessor, i.e. ancillaries and other components can not cope when the power is turned up. I believe VWR have blown up a couple in the name of research but lessons have been learnt and power outputs are creeping up.
Late US model MkV GTI's also came with this engine, I would imagine for emissions and production reasons.
EA113 (MkV) is an older design (original design nearly 20 years old), but is arguably more resilient and can handle more power (in all of it's various guises). Development cost and lead-time were what drove VW to use the older engine for the current R models.
One of the more interesting features off the EA888 is the turbo. AFAIK, the European MkVI GTI still uses a BW/KKK K03. The current Ocatavia VRs uses the same engine but with an IHI turbo - which apparently sits quite nicely between the K03 and K04 in terms of lag and punch.
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hmm, I thought that all the mk6 TSI gtis came with an IHI turbo... :confused:
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Just asking out of interest, but I don't suppose the IHI turbo fits the K03 turbo'd Mk5 TFSI engine?
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hmm, I thought that all the mk6 TSI gtis came with an IHI turbo... :confused:
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me to. also the vRS has the identical engine to the mk6 gti, only running 200ps though
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To add to the confusion my understanding is that there is also a separate Audi version of the TSI MK6 lump still only 211ps but with a load more torque due to variable valve timing 350NM compared to the 280 of the Rocco and Mk6 even though the ps figure is only 1 down!
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Just asking out of interest, but I don't suppose the IHI turbo fits the K03 turbo'd Mk5 TFSI engine?
No RR it doesn't on it's own as you need the matching exhaust manifold as well.
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No RR it doesn't on it's own as you need the matching exhaust manifold as well.
Well not the turbo on its own but the whole Mani/Turbo combo?
Is the TSI mani (exhaust port spacing etc on the block) different to that of the TFSI?
in any case the engine/turbo is "matched" so not sure how that new turbo would fair on the old engine in all honsety even if the exhaust mani goes on identically and the old DP fits onto the new turbo in same location.
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No RR it doesn't on it's own as you need the matching exhaust manifold as well.
Well not the turbo on its own but the whole Mani/Turbo combo?
Is the TSI mani (exhaust port spacing etc on the block) different to that of the TFSI?
in any case the engine/turbo is "matched" so not sure how that new turbo would fair on the old engine in all honsety even if the exhaust mani goes on identically and the old DP fits onto the new turbo in same location.
Dont see how it wouldn't work with a custom map if you could fit it, in the same way a ko3 engine isn't built to work with a ko4 but they can be converted.
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dont see how it wouldn't work with a custom map if you could fit it, in the same way a ko3 engine isn't built to work with a ko4 but they can be converted.
ah but the old engine was u see...only a few internal bits are different. block is same hence K04 Mani bolts straight on.
the new engine is different in many more ways i say.
but someone can find out for us if they want! :happy2:
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dont see how it wouldn't work with a custom map if you could fit it, in the same way a ko3 engine isn't built to work with a ko4 but they can be converted.
ah but the old engine was u see...only a few internal bits are different. block is same hence K04 Mani bolts straight on.
the new engine is different in many more ways i say.
but someone can find out for us if they want! :happy2:
Thats not for me chungster I'm not much of a modder, i'm just really interested in this stuff and I understand what has pricked RR interest's having a boost level higher than the ko3 but sppols up quicker than a ko4 its a great middle ground possibly without the need for uprated internals :drool: perfect for a ko3 guy with a power fetish.
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K04 works great on the old engine really he doesn't need this fancy new turbo lol
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To add to the confusion my understanding is that there is also a separate Audi version of the TSI MK6 lump still only 211ps but with a load more torque due to variable valve timing 350NM compared to the 280 of the Rocco and Mk6 even though the ps figure is only 1 down!
I believe this is true - and it gets better mpg to boot ...
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K04 works great on the old engine really he doesn't need this fancy new turbo lol
....True :happy2:. My question came from just idle curiosity and in case someone else fancied doing it if feasible.