MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: QD MBE on February 17, 2009, 09:23:04 pm
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http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?p=682349#post682349 (http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?p=682349#post682349)
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I got an autotech fuel pump and stage 2+ custom code map fitted at JBS for around £700 :happy2:
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Sounds expensive - JBS the pump was £300 fitted + £50 for the new Revo code
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I wonder is they test their pumps, like JMK used to do, before installing them on customer cars.
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I got an autotech fuel pump and stage 2+ custom code map fitted at JBS for around £700 :happy2:
Bearing in mind that I had no map on the car at all, I did all the hardware mods first i.e. full Milltek TBE, Carbonio, HPFP etc. I thought it was dirt cheap :happy2:
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I got an autotech fuel pump and stage 2+ custom code map fitted at JBS for around £700 :happy2:
Bearing in mind that I had no map on the car at all, I did all the hardware mods first i.e. full Milltek TBE, Carbonio, HPFP etc. I thought it was dirt cheap :happy2:
is a very good price considering its £500 - £600 just for revo stages (1,2,2+) normally.
i am currently looking at a hpfp but swaying towards the apr one but jkm want £700 for it, is it worth twice as much?
how are you finding the autotech one?
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I don't have the car anymore but I ran it for 22,000 miles with no probs at all, the mid range power was completely bonkers :happy2: :laugh:
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i keep forgetting about this mod, seems too expensive for me thow, and dont get much power, just more higer in the rev range, i thought the autotech was 300 fitted? if thats the price then it will come after the R32 brakes, does anybody the cheapest place?
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I didn't think it was a good price myself.
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it seems difficult getting a good price from any of these tuning companies at the moment - they all seem to be wacking the costs up at the mo due to currency issues etc.
still managed to get an ok price on fleebay for a forge twintercooler though, jkm wanted £707 and amd tech wanted £780 :sick:
fleebay - £625 delivered. :happy2:
now for the hpfp cant seem to find any on ebay though
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is there a difference between KO4 and KO3 cars?? will have a scan around in the coming months for a ssecond hand one. :smiley:
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is there a difference between KO4 and KO3 cars?? will have a scan around in the coming months for a ssecond hand one. :smiley:
Nope.. All the same mate
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cool, :happy2: you fitted one yet? silly question really :laugh:
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cool, :happy2: you fitted one yet? silly question really :laugh:
Got the Autotech pump on mine, seems to be running fine really..
Jonny
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I didn't know the Autotech one was so cheap. If JKM aren't doing their checks, and you're going elsewhere, how do you know if you're getting a good 'un then?
What's the concequences of having a duff one?
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jkm only stock the apr one nowadays - so its £700 and soon to go up too with exchange rates
autotech is around the £350 mark and from people's feedbacks here it seems all good. and apparently they have improved it from the first pump they released.
its a big difference in price which can buy you the equivalent of 17 new 'cam followers' should a problem arise from the autotech
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Yeah, I just read a god-knows-how-long thread on the 'tex where Autotech and APR got into a right p*****g contest about them.
Seriously, they know how to get sand in their vaginas at APR.. waahhhh wahhhh :grin:
Might look into this for summer.
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Hi guys, this is a copy of a post I done for another Forum as this has been asked before, and a few people have been asking this to us by Email etc recently. The botton line is, if you already have an Autotech or KMD pump supplied by us dont worry.
We stopped supplying pump internals some time ago now so some text below is a little out of date but will give you the 'history' so to speak.
JKM appreciate that some people would like to know more about why we have made the switch from KMD & Autotech TFSI fuel pump internals over to the complete APR pre built and tested unit.
Where we have been using KMD/Autotech internals I will detail what process we have been going through for each fuel pump prior to sending it out to a customer, so you will get a feel for the process that needs to be run through by JKM to ensure that the pumps are of sufficiently high quality to sell to a customer.
After receiving the fuel pump internals from the manufacture (say for example KMD) we first check the machined parts for known manufacturing problems by measuring and a general visual inspection – any problems here and the pump internals are rejected.
We then hand assemble the parts together and with a light lubrication between the piston and bore, the clearance and general feel is assessed. The internals are then hand assembled into a test fuel pump body - any problems here and the pump internals are rejected.
Assuming that all is good on the above, we can then begin an up rated fuel pump internal build into a brand new OEM pump.
Cleanliness is paramount here as any debris etc will ruin the piston shaft. This is something that we only do in an extremely clean environment to ensure the utmost quality.
Once the fuel pump is built, we then move onto the next main step – Testing.
To ensure that each TFSI fuel pump that we supply is of the highest quality we have been testing each pump built by JKM, on our own TFSI car.
Therefore every time we build a new pump Kates nice new shiny MK5 GTI is pulled apart and the test pump is installed for performance testing under load. Following the install we analyse each fuel pump in detail.
We will look at the fuel pumps Quantity Valve differential angle, Total Compression volume, Fuel pressure and more – again comparing the results against known good units.
With our experience of these pumps it is possible to analyse the results and detect possible problems with internal clearances as a result of machining tolerances, but this is a very complex area. If we suspect problems we will remove the fuel pump, disassemble and inspect it again – any problems found here and the pump internals are rejected.
Following all of the above, assuming that the built TFSI fuel pump is functioning correctly, we will remove the fuel pump from our test car, seal it into a bag and box it and send out to the customer.
The main reason we have chosen to swap from KMD/Autotech is that the above is very costly to us (time wise) to get a good pump together. We have sometimes had to build 3 pumps to get 1 good unit.
We appreciate quality engineering, which APR provide with their fuel pump,
Our equivalent of the APR test rig, is our own MK5 Golf GTI engine and our diagnostics knowledge.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jkm.org.uk%2Fperformance%2FMisc%2FMisc_Performance_pictures%2FAPR%2520Pump%2Fpumptest.jpg&hash=4a4a3a4a13e6a969530cb6281f0b904a8e5bd84c)
APR does have a superior hardware design, changing much more than just the piston and bore. The complete internals are re-engineered, right down to the balanced seal rings and main spring assembly. This design puts less stress on the rear balanced seal than the other pump solutions – the APR pump design is along the same route as the OEM pump only obviously containing larger internals for increased fuel volume.
APR route out bad pumps themselves during testing at their own facility, and the pumps have even been used by VW Motorsport on the VW Scirocco GT24 which won the ADAC 24h Race without any fault.
For those interested more information on this can be found here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3855643
JKM will only bring to market the quality items. If we find that the quality of an item is not acceptable we will first try and work with the supplier for a solution but ultimately if we would not be happy to use the product on our own car we will not sell it to a customer for use on their car.
For JKM the up rated internals route (only) is too inconsistent from the manufacturers.
APR provide a quality fuel pump out of the box, and the customer is in the knowledge that there will be no issues.
The APR pump can be bought in 2 ways.
1) An outright buy of an APR pump, where by you can remove your stock TFSI pump and retain it somewhere safe and simply install the APR pump. This route costs £624+Vat excluding postage back to you.
2) The second route is a core exchange but this can take up to 6 weeks to complete this process, where by if you send us your TFSI pump we will send it to APR for YOUR pump to be modified at the APR headquarters , this route costs £509+Vat excluding postage back to you and you are responsible for postage of your pump to JKM intially. However it does take a long time to complete this process due to the international shipping involved.
More information is at the following link: http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/tfsipumps.htm
For those customers already with a JKM built KMD or Autotech pump, you do not need to worry as we have done the above testing process on your pump to ensure you have a good unit.
I hope this helps clear up the questions in this area and hopefully you will appreciate why we have made the switch to the APR unit.
For those who wondered, our own car does use an APR fuel pump but the K04 conversion car that has been on long term testing (27,000+ miles) has been, and is still using a KMD pump without fault due to the above testing process that we have performed.
Keith
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Thanks for that, clears things up.
So will you be offering a forum discount on these or group buy anyone!
If I come down and get a new pump fitted can I then have my oem pump sent to apr and hence get the same reduced price or do I have to send the pump away in advance?
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The fuel pump exchange service means that you are actually sending your own pump away to the USA (hence the reason that it is better to go for the new pump option for speed of service) as explained this can take up to 6 weeks for this service.
If your pump looks as new (APR are very very fussy trust me!) then you may be able to get a new pump quicker, but the slightest thing such as slight corrossion on the fuel inlet fittings or scratches on the quantity loader valve and APR Europe WILL reject the pump for an immediate exchange, and you will have to wait the full time for your own pump to undergo the whole process. Hope this helps.
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^^^^
Then isn't the most practical way to buy a whole new APR pump, fit it, send off the oem one and hope it's good enough to get some money back.
If APR are so fussy it doesn't exactly encourage you.
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If APR are so fussy it doesn't exactly encourage you.
whilst I agree APR may have somewhat a captive audience.
I would disagree with your comments Robin, surely 'fussy' up to a point is a good thing? (something you argue is good for VWR?)
Given the high precision involved and the time required to 'check' customers old pumps for suitability, Im surprised APR even bother allowing option 2 (core exchange) at all!
thanks JKM for the informative and very useful post :happy2:
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You're right, john_o. My thinking was more that parts they would reject might be replaced to their high standards rather than reject the whole pump - Hope that makes sense. However, I suggest this in ignorance of any engineering implications - Yes, it's often better to replace a whole part rather than muck about with bits of it.
Whether financially far more expensive or not, I would certainly favour the APR pump if I was doing mine, and this is because of their exacting standards.
:happy2:
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I have Apr pump had mine done a Awesome GTi did it exchange with no waiting .
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I have Apr pump had mine done a Awesome GTi did it exchange with no waiting .
Maybe you had a newish or low milage car??
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I have Apr pump had mine done a Awesome GTi did it exchange with no waiting .
Tell us more...
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I have Apr pump had mine done a Awesome GTi did it exchange with no waiting .
As above but a 2005 car with just under 70k at the time. :happy2: