MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: keano on December 02, 2010, 08:30:54 pm
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Hi guys,
I was having a think ealier about how compitant i'd be on a track, come a track day etc...
How would you guys approach a hard right corner for example? With regards to braking and acceleration at what points etc.?
I've drawn a ridiculous picture in paint, as how i'd drive a rear wheel drive car ( I've done a few charity ferrari track day rubbish things under tuition) - but does the same still apply to a fwd golf? And am i totally wrong? :grin:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5088%2F5226731533_b3bce8529d.jpg&hash=3cff532b48dc35448e5c3ddb73f3da4e62a48bdc)
Any advice or pictures would be fun :happy2:
Nick
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haha brilliant effort on the pic i rekon that will take some beating :happy2: but i rekon thats pretty much spot on obv depending on the corner depends on how much throttle half way round....
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haha! took me a good 3 minutes :grin:
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I'm not an expert but I would advise:
- Start slow and well within your comfort zone and gradually build your confidence and knowledge of the track.
- Always do your hard braking while the car is in a straight line and consequently more stable. Identify your braking point markers as you become more familiar with the circuit.
- Turn in towards the apex and start progressively applying power as soon as you can see the bend opening up.
- Basically 'slow in and fast out' is smoother and more stable.
- Do a cool down lap and never put your handbrake on when you park!
Be aware that many tracks may have a sequence of corners where you would be faster if you sacrifice the racing line on one corner to better get round the corner which immediately follows.
Never do another lap when you're thinking: "I'll just do one more lap" and always take a short break between sessions to keep yourself fresh.
Smoooothness is the key imo.
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i sence a competion. me thinks entrys can only be done via paint :popcornsoda:
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Cheers Robin. :happy2:
I was hoping that you would visit this thread.
"Slow in, fast out" seems to be the key i guess. I vaugely remember it from past experiences.
Thank you!
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Cheers Robin. :happy2:
I was hoping that you would visit this thread.
"Slow in, fast out" seems to be the key i guess. I vaugely remember it from past experiences.
Thank you!
....You're very welcome :happy2:
As I say, I'm not an expert but I do have some experience. I've now added some more to my earlier post that I've remembered.
Tony_danza has a lot of track experience which may be helpful but he's a more aggressive trackie than myself. Some drivers like to push to the limit but I prefer to always stay a margin within it - I still have fun in my own sweet way.
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****Cough ***** Do not REPEAT Do not look at the scenery, or lose your way on the track! ****Cough*****
I have only done track days on my bikes, but the advice still holds fast.
Always within your own capabilities, and never faster than your guardian angel can fly!
Or as kevin schwantz advised when riding..............If you see God.................Back off!
Make sure your car is up to it, I got caught out at Pembrey once, I finished the rear tyre off fully on the track, and had to ride 100+ miles to get home on a self made racing slick as a back tyre!
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****Cough ***** Do not REPEAT Do not look at the scenery, or lose your way on the track! ****Cough*****
....A moment I'll never forget! One of the first corners on my first drive on the Nordschleife. You must admit, it's not as obvious as the other 73 or so corners are!
Wasn't that in Belgium? :laugh:
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if in doubt flat out. :wink:
not to sure on the kink as you exit the corner in your pic though :laugh:
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Tuition, tuition, tuition.. until then - slow in, fast out.
Depends on your style and car set up too, I use oversteer and trail braking, this comes with time and confidence, so my picture would look very different to yours. Some people never feel comfortable with this and prefer to have a 'planted' back end. In this instance stick to SI/FO otherwise you'll just overcook it and understeer.
Oh, you missed the apex too :signLOL:
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*Googling trail braking*
This should be moved into the track related section... Mods?
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as TD said. tuition is key. more often than not if im at a track day and havent used the track before ior for a while i always get an instructor out with me. just for a few laps
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As danza said really,
it completely depends on how the car is set up, if its relatively standard the car wont allow you to drive it how a properly sorted fwd car should be driven in the track, but then saying that if its set up properly it would be really nervous to drive fast on a back road blast due to it relying on having temprature in the rear tyres...
I would start off with how you have drawn it in your pic, folowing the basic rule of thumb of brake in a straight line, then build the speed through the corner.
if you want to go past this stage you will need to throw that rule of thumb out the window, then it becomes a case of how much confidence you have to be able to slide the car! As tony said, You then start braking deeper into the corners and using the power to control the degree of slide you have going through the corner, if its done right you should have very little slide but enough to be able to keep the throttle on without worrying about any sort of understeer... so its more of a fast in fast out technique! you have to be very smooth with this tho not using much steering input at all!
The beauty of fwd is that you can have a massive moment and still get away with it, but just remember to take the opposite lock off just as quick as you put it on... otherwise you will be going back the opposite way haha
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As a means of explaining what a cautious approach is, this is my mate Nige following me on a lap of Oulton a few weeks back. Was very cold & greasy, so I'd turned off idiot mode and was back into being smooth.
It's not without fault (getting used to the track new car) but between the two cars you get an idea of what makes a safe lap by being SI/FO. Braking before turn in, power through the bend etc etc.
I'll try finding a FI/FO lap for comparison.
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what motor is he driving??
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ABF'd MKII Golf on TBs - fully prepp'd cage/diff/suspension etc and about 180BHP in 900kilos.
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Hi guys,
I was having a think ealier about how compitant i'd be on a track, come a track day etc...
How would you guys approach a hard right corner for example? With regards to braking and acceleration at what points etc.?
I've drawn a ridiculous picture in paint, as how i'd drive a rear wheel drive car ( I've done a few charity ferrari track day rubbish things under tuition) - but does the same still apply to a fwd golf? And am i totally wrong? :grin:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5088%2F5226731533_b3bce8529d.jpg&hash=3cff532b48dc35448e5c3ddb73f3da4e62a48bdc)
Any advice or pictures would be fun :happy2:
Nick
Which track are you going too, up north or down south?
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Nothing planned at all bud.
However, it would likely be a Northern track as im from Doncaster/ Sheffield.
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when i tried the ring in may, when i had to break for the righthander after flugplatz the golf got a very very light rearend, it actually helped me place it right through the corner. Done my bit og roadracing might have helped in using this light rear end. :smiley:
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this is the reason i wanted to get an even stiffer rear ARB so i could have a more oversteer biased handling car. The vRS with its bigger back end was really easy and predicable to get the back loose, that said most ARBs are designed for the golf and not the vRS, so a bigger bar might have been needd to counter the extra weight over the rear axle
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Have a look at this link. It may be a good way of stepping into, or back into track use. Will bring your driving on, and its in a very similar car to your own.
Much better to make your mistakes with an instructor beside you and get the mistakes sorted out rather than making them lap after lap :happy2:
http://driving-experience.knockhill.com/3rd-gear-seat-trakcstar-experience.php
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Nice track Tony, would like to visit it sometime although it's very far from my location. Quite different corner approach between you and the guy following you in the Golf. About the corner mentioned in the beginning of the thread, there are so many variables it is impossible to tell the best line.
1) It depends if your car is FWD, AWD or RWD. FWD cars can put the power down later on tight corners
2) It depends if that corner is in a horisontal plane or it can be uphill/downhill/blind corner (down>up in the apex>down)/valley (up>down in the apex>up)
3) It depends if the corner is alone or preceded/followed by other corners
4) It depends on the speed you have at the top of a straight line and the radius of the corner that follows
5) It depends on how long the corner is
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If the drawing you made is realistic, then the line is pretty ok in most cases ... but then again, it depends on how wide the track is. You can carry more speed on the corner, if the track is wide enough on the exit, if you climb over the vibrator !
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Oulton's amazing, you should do a road trip and take in a few of the UK's tracks.
Lines, yes, I'd only just come out on track so my tyres were cold, which is why I initially tried to get out of Nige's way. So, in Shell Oils (the banked hairpin) for example I simply didn't have enough rear grip to brake around the bend, taking more of a straight line in and turning hard instead. There's no run off there, so it makes sense to be cautious!!!
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Hi Tony, nice video, I know Oulton well and your mate nige takes pretty much the same lines I do in my 993 RS, which in itself is interesting as I always thought there would be a much bigger difference between RWD and FWD, but the lines are clearly the same, (have never done a track day in my GTI, but loads and loads in the RS) the biggest difference from watching the vid is when on and off the power and the speed through the corners, I carry more speed in. go a bit deeper and power out more, but this is basically your fifo scenario, but only in the dry, as the rear weight bias and extreme rear traction of the 993 helps massively in FIFO as does using the weight transfer, BUT, if it was wet and greasy I would be about half a lap behind you as you really don't want the rear weight bias in those conditions. Still very interesting though and great driving, lovely lines and nice and smooth!
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BTW, the way I learn FIFO was my instructor took me to Landau (south wales just outside Cardiff) on about 3/4 occassions (loads of run off and we were the only car and very cheap about £50 from memory on a test day rather than a track day) and got me to go into right angle bends with too much speed to get a feel for understeer, then back off until I managed to get round on the raggedy edge and then the same with oversteer, this gave me such a good feel for the limit on the car and how coming off and back on the power tarnsferred weight front to back and vice versa and altered grip at front and rear on the edge.
This was the way I really "got" steering the acr using the throttle and weight transfer, but you need an empty track, instructor and lots of run off, and I used up a set of tyres!
But moved me on big style from SIFO.